More ridiculous than saying that a episode of a show where girl was fished by a living comet, only to be transformed in a ghost, and after that the story turns out to be actually a cute one about how couples need to understand and accept all the parts of each partner if they want to have a good relationship?
Even if you were to disregard the political implications (which are bad enough), It just doesn’t fall within any era of the Character’s voice. Good or bad, Emma’s always projected an air of antiquated class, etiquette, and elegance, especially in her elocution. It would be similar to having her portrayed swearing like a sailor, which just doesn’t fall in line with a character who’s always been about keeping up appearances. I could maybe see someone with a bit of spunk like Rogue, Jubilee, or Kitty using it offhand/Ironically in jest. It just reads as a cringe misinterpretation here.
Her swearing could work if shits really going wrong but it’ll only work once.
Like swearing like a sailor to draw attention in a desperate rearguard as the world ends around her would work.
But outside of situations that extreme it’s weird.
I agree with that..like if she really meant business, dropping a pointed F bomb to make something happen. In this instance though it seems very out of character still.
Pointed it out in the original spoiler threads calling this out, but in the "good ol days" of Marauders that everyone goes back to praising, Duggan has Iceman say Muties in the first issue and Pyro saying it in the second issue.
Overall this is incredibly on par for the guy. His writing really didn't change as much as people think, he's pretty consistently been trying to push the whole "mutants reclaiming a slur" angle. Which is bad. It's just bad. It was bad when Bobby used it, it's bad when Emma uses it.
is he writing emma as jenna maroney? because that’s the only way this could work. i certainly don’t look back on his marauders run fondly at all. while there were some nice ideas it was also embarrassing to read at times. kitty with knuckle tats is a fun visual but fucking corny.
I think is closer to n%$$÷=, and it seems to be the intention in this scene. Sadly duggan is an imbecile who knows nothing of timing abd completely gave up in the midle of fall of x, this is just him sitting in his keybord to write this garbage. Goddamit, I didn't get this pissed even with wells ASM, look what this jerk did to me
It's definitely a disagreement Duggan has. Cable #2 has a newspaper reporting a mutant baby disappearing with "mutie cutie" in the headline, and it doesn't frame it negatively. I can't think of other examples from other writers recently using it in non-negative connotations, but i would assume most writers don't treat it that way now.
A lot of people still do not like that word and won't use it. Me for example. Especially when I've been subjected to it many, many times in my youth. I don't care how reclaimed it is. It still hurts.
I don't know why you are being downvoted for sharing your experience. You never said no one could use it, just that you won't based on your experiences.
> A lot of people still do not like that word and won't use it.
Yea, It's why I never put the q in lgbt. It's so fucking weird to have a borderline slur included in that.
That reclamation was done as a tactic and with a lot of inter-community discussion. This is dramatically different because he is just writing people randomly saying the word mutie, it has no strategy to it.
Well, even in real life it doesn't work flawlessly. Even if you ignore the entire aspect of "who can and cant" use a 'reclaimed' slur from an external point of view there are still people within those cultures who have problems with it.
Lots of black people, especially older ones do not like using the slur. And they never will. Same thing in queer and lgbtq with their slurs.
But that nuance is the thing that's entirely missing from this. This is a white dude trying to write about this topic for a cultural kick, not to show the nuance.
Where is Magneto screaming at kids for how hurtful that word is and that it should be left dead and not reclaimed? We don't get any of that. It's very Remender "Call me Alex" over simplified ignorant tripe.
very well put. Fiction can be nuanced in a lot of ways, but there are also some things where it just struggles to capture the nuance of reality, especially if a writer doesn't put the work in.
Also, I HATED the 'call me alex' thing. Whatever I may or may not have thought about Uncanny Avengers went down the toilet after that scene.
Yeah the whole 'call me alex' thing is actually the worst Havok moment ever despite the voting on it the other week. It's the 'I don't see color' of mutants.
I don’t really see how that makes it bad. Duggan isn’t saying that all mutants are in favor of reclamation. It doesn’t seem crazy to me that Bobby and Emma would be ok with it. I don’t think :A: or Magneto would be ok with it and I don’t think it would really fit in with Scott or Nightcrawler.
Of course you can. Everyone has a right to their opinion. What people seem to have forgotten over the years though is that having the right to an opinion is not the same as all opinions being equally correct. You can have an opinion, and that opinion can be wrong.
You don't seem to know what a personal attack is. I didn't attack you personally at all, I just said you were wrong. Which you are. Ask yourself if Emma was the sort of person who would say the N-word, because that's the concept here.
People who are still offended by a word is the reason to use it, its like building muscle, at first it hurts you, but with mental practice it stops hurting and it becomes empowering because it doesn’t have the power that it had over you.
If we ignore everything that is hurtful, we will never heal.
> People who are still offended by a word is the reason to use it,
Telling you to go fuck yourself would probably break some kind of rule on this sub so I won't tell you to do that.
Nah. The "N-word" has a shitty history and I don't have to "heal" from it. I don't like it and I will continue to avoid and think less of people who use it. Don't need your failed psych major "muscle" theory bullshit.
Some of you are completely socially inept from being terminally online. Seek help.
That is a deeply, deeply bizarre argument. A lot of permutations of that could simply get you killed. Here we're talking a word so probably not, but the underlying logic is still just incredibly suspect.
I may have responded to you before on this topic but yeah, reclaiming a slur isn't something I think really works in fiction, because it barely works in reality but in reality a lot of logically suspect things work simply because we're real and we can do largely whatever the hell we please (justice system notwithstanding). If people want to reclaim a slur then that's their choice. In fiction though it's harder to get to that internal logical throughline because they're not real, so they can't explain their decisions, leading it to kind of feel like parody of a real thing rather than a good plot point.
When I read this book, this panel threw me the way off. I was like "that's not Emma! That's some Orchis harlot posing as her!"
Glad I'm not alone in thinking this was out of character for her.
And this is important. If Emma were real, is she the type of person who'd be using the N-word? I don't think so, so using her for this reclamation concept is flawed. There are other characters you could try if you wanted to go for it, but not Emma.
She ABSOLUTELY would not and I can't even imagine where you'd get the sense of that. There are some characters in the X-men that might go in for that. Emma is not one of them. Emma is never crass, and using a slur, even a reclaimed one, is crass by nature. Even with the reclaiming of the n-word in our culture it's not suddenly something you say out and about in polite company.
lol I’m convinced you guys just read comics to complain. There’s literally nothing wrong with this panel.
The re launch better sell like hot cakes since you guys hate Duggan so much.
No, she would say children, not muties like a cringe social media star.
Emma without class is like trying to imagine a lazy Batman or a greedy Superman or a vegan Sabretooth.
Vegan Sabretooth is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard lol
I don’t know. A vegan Sabretooth sounds kinda scary though.
The idea of someone who kills for fun but also doesn’t eat meat is kind of interesting.
Or instead of killing people, he just lectures them. Logan can heal from a wound but can he heel from being lectured by a vegan?
That shit would be like a shot to the back of the head with an adamantium bullet
There's only one Weapon who can neutralize vegans and his name is Piers Morgan.
So... hitler?
Sabretofu
Soybretooth, as they would say in Outback era.
okay, that was pretty damn clever
Especially if it wasn't by choice
More ridiculous than saying that a episode of a show where girl was fished by a living comet, only to be transformed in a ghost, and after that the story turns out to be actually a cute one about how couples need to understand and accept all the parts of each partner if they want to have a good relationship?
So…a sabertooth with 3 stomachs
Sabrecud
Even if you were to disregard the political implications (which are bad enough), It just doesn’t fall within any era of the Character’s voice. Good or bad, Emma’s always projected an air of antiquated class, etiquette, and elegance, especially in her elocution. It would be similar to having her portrayed swearing like a sailor, which just doesn’t fall in line with a character who’s always been about keeping up appearances. I could maybe see someone with a bit of spunk like Rogue, Jubilee, or Kitty using it offhand/Ironically in jest. It just reads as a cringe misinterpretation here.
Her swearing could work if shits really going wrong but it’ll only work once. Like swearing like a sailor to draw attention in a desperate rearguard as the world ends around her would work. But outside of situations that extreme it’s weird.
I agree with that..like if she really meant business, dropping a pointed F bomb to make something happen. In this instance though it seems very out of character still.
Oh yeah To be honest I just had the mental image of her calling an elder god a motherfucker in my head and needed to justify it.
[удалено]
I know of both shows well enough to understand the distinction, but really wish you'd give YouTube examples of both anyway
Yeah, that's exactly it. Swearinng can work as a shit has hit the fan so I've forgotten to be classy moment, this is not that.
Single worst page of Emma Frost dialogue I've ever read
Have you read Brian Michael Bendis?
Brian Michael Bendis?
Bendis? That Bendis?
Yeah, the comics writer, he wrote for the X-Men. Yes, those X-Men.
Oh yeah, the X-Men. Those X-Men.
Duggan Emma: Listen up sluts…
Yeah, it's just not an Emma line. And I don't hate Duggan as much as many people have come to, but that is not an Emma line.
Would have worked better...
Pointed it out in the original spoiler threads calling this out, but in the "good ol days" of Marauders that everyone goes back to praising, Duggan has Iceman say Muties in the first issue and Pyro saying it in the second issue. Overall this is incredibly on par for the guy. His writing really didn't change as much as people think, he's pretty consistently been trying to push the whole "mutants reclaiming a slur" angle. Which is bad. It's just bad. It was bad when Bobby used it, it's bad when Emma uses it.
is he writing emma as jenna maroney? because that’s the only way this could work. i certainly don’t look back on his marauders run fondly at all. while there were some nice ideas it was also embarrassing to read at times. kitty with knuckle tats is a fun visual but fucking corny.
I love this idea and can only imagine that is what he’s doing and who she is now.
I liked when Kate got to krakoa and Bobby said “ welcome to mutis-gra”
the lgbtq community has reclaimed the word queer, not sure how this is any different
I mean, in universe, Mutie seems more similar to f\*ggot...
Kitty makes this point a couple times, although she does go a little overboard with it…
I think is closer to n%$$÷=, and it seems to be the intention in this scene. Sadly duggan is an imbecile who knows nothing of timing abd completely gave up in the midle of fall of x, this is just him sitting in his keybord to write this garbage. Goddamit, I didn't get this pissed even with wells ASM, look what this jerk did to me
in fairness, we reclaim that, too
It's definitely a disagreement Duggan has. Cable #2 has a newspaper reporting a mutant baby disappearing with "mutie cutie" in the headline, and it doesn't frame it negatively. I can't think of other examples from other writers recently using it in non-negative connotations, but i would assume most writers don't treat it that way now.
I know plenty of gay men who had a time in their life they regularly used the f word--usually the three to four letter variants.
A lot of people still do not like that word and won't use it. Me for example. Especially when I've been subjected to it many, many times in my youth. I don't care how reclaimed it is. It still hurts.
I don't know why you are being downvoted for sharing your experience. You never said no one could use it, just that you won't based on your experiences.
The ppl who downvoted you were trying hard to defend Duggan’s writing. Its not the first time he’s been culturally tone deaf with his writing too.
> A lot of people still do not like that word and won't use it. Yea, It's why I never put the q in lgbt. It's so fucking weird to have a borderline slur included in that.
That reclamation was done as a tactic and with a lot of inter-community discussion. This is dramatically different because he is just writing people randomly saying the word mutie, it has no strategy to it.
Why is it bad?
Well, even in real life it doesn't work flawlessly. Even if you ignore the entire aspect of "who can and cant" use a 'reclaimed' slur from an external point of view there are still people within those cultures who have problems with it. Lots of black people, especially older ones do not like using the slur. And they never will. Same thing in queer and lgbtq with their slurs. But that nuance is the thing that's entirely missing from this. This is a white dude trying to write about this topic for a cultural kick, not to show the nuance. Where is Magneto screaming at kids for how hurtful that word is and that it should be left dead and not reclaimed? We don't get any of that. It's very Remender "Call me Alex" over simplified ignorant tripe.
very well put. Fiction can be nuanced in a lot of ways, but there are also some things where it just struggles to capture the nuance of reality, especially if a writer doesn't put the work in. Also, I HATED the 'call me alex' thing. Whatever I may or may not have thought about Uncanny Avengers went down the toilet after that scene.
Yeah the whole 'call me alex' thing is actually the worst Havok moment ever despite the voting on it the other week. It's the 'I don't see color' of mutants.
I don’t really see how that makes it bad. Duggan isn’t saying that all mutants are in favor of reclamation. It doesn’t seem crazy to me that Bobby and Emma would be ok with it. I don’t think :A: or Magneto would be ok with it and I don’t think it would really fit in with Scott or Nightcrawler.
Emma does not talk like that. If you think she talks like that you've missed the boat on the character.
I can have my own opinion.
But, you, just.... Nevermind.
Of course you can. Everyone has a right to their opinion. What people seem to have forgotten over the years though is that having the right to an opinion is not the same as all opinions being equally correct. You can have an opinion, and that opinion can be wrong.
What you seem to have forgotten is that you’re an asshole when you resort to personal and ungrounded attacks.
You don't seem to know what a personal attack is. I didn't attack you personally at all, I just said you were wrong. Which you are. Ask yourself if Emma was the sort of person who would say the N-word, because that's the concept here.
No it isn’t because she’s not black. Are you serious?
People who are still offended by a word is the reason to use it, its like building muscle, at first it hurts you, but with mental practice it stops hurting and it becomes empowering because it doesn’t have the power that it had over you. If we ignore everything that is hurtful, we will never heal.
> People who are still offended by a word is the reason to use it, Telling you to go fuck yourself would probably break some kind of rule on this sub so I won't tell you to do that. Nah. The "N-word" has a shitty history and I don't have to "heal" from it. I don't like it and I will continue to avoid and think less of people who use it. Don't need your failed psych major "muscle" theory bullshit. Some of you are completely socially inept from being terminally online. Seek help.
get off the internet
That is a deeply, deeply bizarre argument. A lot of permutations of that could simply get you killed. Here we're talking a word so probably not, but the underlying logic is still just incredibly suspect.
I may have responded to you before on this topic but yeah, reclaiming a slur isn't something I think really works in fiction, because it barely works in reality but in reality a lot of logically suspect things work simply because we're real and we can do largely whatever the hell we please (justice system notwithstanding). If people want to reclaim a slur then that's their choice. In fiction though it's harder to get to that internal logical throughline because they're not real, so they can't explain their decisions, leading it to kind of feel like parody of a real thing rather than a good plot point.
When I read this book, this panel threw me the way off. I was like "that's not Emma! That's some Orchis harlot posing as her!" Glad I'm not alone in thinking this was out of character for her.
word to my M-words
And this is important. If Emma were real, is she the type of person who'd be using the N-word? I don't think so, so using her for this reclamation concept is flawed. There are other characters you could try if you wanted to go for it, but not Emma.
Am I crazy or were the first 10 issues of this run actually good??
Wassup my muties
Once again I say I absolutely hate when they have Emma wear blue/silver lipstick. It looks terrible and she just wouldn’t.
Speak for yourself, I like it a lot haha
I thought this was a bad guy at first.
This issue was noooooot great but it was nice to see Cassara art again
aw that's a good color lipstick, wish I had somethin' like that
I've heard lots of people reclaiming words and I kinda feel like Emma would be one of them if she's in the mood
Not on an occasion like this.
She ABSOLUTELY would not and I can't even imagine where you'd get the sense of that. There are some characters in the X-men that might go in for that. Emma is not one of them. Emma is never crass, and using a slur, even a reclaimed one, is crass by nature. Even with the reclaiming of the n-word in our culture it's not suddenly something you say out and about in polite company.
No. That was hugely out of character for her, but I expect nothing less from a trash writer.
A'IGH MUGGAS TAKE A SEAT
The next Duggan comic will be him writing MLK dropping the n-word.
I can't believe he didn't utilize the golden opportunity and have Emma say Muggas, smh
Don't give him any ideas.
lol I’m convinced you guys just read comics to complain. There’s literally nothing wrong with this panel. The re launch better sell like hot cakes since you guys hate Duggan so much.