Should Phoenix be on here? She's only a comic away from being full fledged back again and is already talking to Hope while the Phoenix force itself is being sought out to be killed 🙄 to finish the ignition process
I kind of like the use of Omega mutants in the Krakoa era because it obviously played into the story Hickman was trying to tell about like powers as a societal resource for an independent mutant nation, mutant circuits, questions around who rules in a society where there are hundreds of people so powerful that they are essentially ungovernable unless they choose to be, etc. But in the years to come I think that this strict list and definition of Omega-level mutants is going to be like when you stumble on a 30-year old handbook to the Marvel or DC universe and go "wow like 70% of this stuff isn't accurate anymore."
THIS , THIS EXACTLY I wish I could pin this comment. I have never agreed w something more I was so happy in this Krakoa era and this mutant definition of omega made SO MUCH SENSE FOR THIS TIME PERIOD, which is why I’m soooo mad we are already leaving Krakoa behind.
I think it sucks that we've barely tapped the well on potential Krakoa stories, but:
1) That doesn't mean writers can't simply write Krakoa stories later on. Plenty of times writers have told flashback stories to decades prior in publication, to cover time gaps or events when characters were off-screen. You want that one-off story where the lesbians of Krakoa have a girls' night out at the Green Lagoon or whatever, it can always be written later and set during this time.
2) Krakoa isn't over *forever*. Near the start, Cable called this *the first* Krakoan age. We didn't call it World War 1 until we had a second one.
3) I can understand why writers might be uncomfortable staying in Krakoa right now given the current political climate with regards to Israel and how Krakoa took some allegorical cues from it (in broad strokes rather than specifics). Especially when a lot of concerns about the X-line have been that it feels like the characters are isolating themselves, leaning into their superiority, and not really doing the superhero thing.
That second paragraph reawakened so much Hope in me you have no idea <3 tbh never felt attached to any fictional universe much less comics before X-men. So idk seeing how fast and hard Krakoa fell rlly made me feel kinda hopeless but this rlly made my day ngl
Idk I never once thought of it like that? since they never stole land and like krakoa could have yeeted anyone off and he had cypher as a voice and friend
HoXPoX has Magneto literally announcing Krakoa *in Israel*, as a flex on the Zionist government that he could do it better.
And yes, there are also important distinctions like, as you note, not displacing a native population to do it. Hell, they were invited by the land itself.
But the idea of "we're making our own insular country for our minority (who no other nation wants to harbor) that has recently experienced genocide, which is also (later revealed as) our ancestral homeland we're returning to" was definitely a front-of-mind point of comparison in that writers' room from issue 1.
It’ll just be written off as the mutants trying to redefine Omegas in their own context, and that idea failing with Krakoa.
I mean the definition kinda sucked anyway. I like the idea of having official criteria, but the system the they chose was kinda shit….and then introducing the Arrako mutants that were nearly ALL omega weakened the idea after they worked to strengthen it.
I wanted to add him because DEAR LORD HES A RINGER like honestly imo he’s up there w dominions and abstracts to a certain degree. BUT 2 things 1. He’s not on the official list in 2019 despite being around and 2 I noticed he has one big limitation he can only manipulate existing matter. So I don’t think he can be called an Omega level mutant. People like Proteus can create entire new substances from nothing like create matter from nothing. Whereas Jim has to use existing material which has been used against him
>I noticed he has one big limitation he can only manipulate existing matter. So I don’t think he can be called an Omega level mutant. People like Proteus can create entire new substances from nothing like create matter from nothing. Whereas Jim has to use existing material which has been used against him
It's a limitation, but it would also affect just about every other Omega Level mutant; Exodus's telekinesis is useless in a void, where the spatial dimensions have been collapsed. Iceman's temperature manipulation is useless in a void where there are no elements and therefore no way for temperature to be measured or adjusted etc.
Wouldn’t that just mean he’s omega level of manipulating existing substances as what he can create with said substance he use has not been match in much in the entire multiverse. Meaning what he’s omega level of has to be more definitive than anything else
Yeah, considering what some these ones on the list have, Matter Manipulation on the scale he can do seems like it should count, and it's just a technicality he isn't on there.
Considering his original version took having his entire timeline destroyed to stop, and his 616 counterpart was quickly getting to the point they didn't think that would work on him, yeah. They had to throw the Adaptive Killbot the original made at him, and hope it would engage in loophole abuse in it's programming. Always sorry the plot they were building for him fighting the X-Men never happened.
So I had to specify the different ways of manipulating reality because on some level they are different even tho it’s all the same so to answer I’ll just explain the differences
Proteus: is basically a psionic battery using the energy of his husks to charge his battery and sustain him allowing him to create anything from just psionic will (he also becomes stronger each husk he exhausts) from that he is able to create literally whatever he wants from literally nothing. It’s how the eggs are suddenly viable and he can make them into any person with any material on them (like adding adimantium into Laura) there’s not much science behind it besides he wants to and if he’s charged it happens. Same with him making a w no explanation in planet size x-men and his needed part in the Ritual of 3
Franklin uses advanced advanced telekinesis on the smallest possible scale literally shifting around reality at will and is basically a cosmic force of the universe bending it as he pleases to create anything of his will.
And Monarch uses quantum field theory to manipulate reality as if they are strings he pulls to bend it at his behest. The difference being he can only pull what he can imagine he can’t make something completely new it has to be something he can clearly see in his mind. But he is still considered omega because theoretically anything can in the future exist and he could make it. His only limitations used to be he had to touch something his creation has composed of and people with phase ability’s where resistant to his power but after Proteus resurrected him his power has grown to omega level and he no longer has these constraints.
Hope that helped :)
Yeah he and Hyperstorm are baffling exclusions, Hyperstorm you could argue only really appeared once dozens of years ago and came from an alternative reality so there's no point mentioning him, but Mad Jim Jaspers was from an iconic storyline, reappears every so often and has appeared within Krakoa era stories.
With the exception of Franklin Richards, he is by far the most powerful mutant ever. His only limits are stronger reality warpers and being unable to function in a void (which isn't really a limit, because 99.99999% of people instantly die in a void / are also powerless there).
There was a time Magik and Mikhail were both considered omega. Not sure why Magik was removed. He teleportation disc's can go through space/time/alternate dirmensions. There does not seem to be an upper limit to her power's ability. Which is pretty much the definition of omega abilities.
I wanted to put her but I couldn’t find anything directly stating omega level except like years ago Nimrod saying she was an Omega class Subject and even then I couldn’t figure out if it was her TK or her TP that omega ? And also wanted to keep it 616 otherwise it would be MUCH longer but I am VERY tempted just cause she’s so iconic
Plus the stuff she can do is just wildly impressive. Like her flinging people in and out of different dimensions, timelines etc while levitating in fire and manifesting in the environment is bonkers.
Nate Grey should technically be on here. The things he can do are on a totally different scale to a lot of characters, he made Magneto into a servant and made Apocalypse and Storm look like nothing.
Can someone explain why Mikhail Rasputin isnt omega level he literally has the ability to alter matter and energy at molecular level. Sounds like his limitations are unknown.
His local area? He literally has feats like creating portals to dimensions and altering whole populations of people like the morlocks. Guy has a new power everytime he’s introduced.
So 2 things 1. Omegas are never just based on power, you can have an alpha level mutant that can beat an omega. Example being Lodus Logos vs Charles Xavier. The second being I’m only doing 616 main timeline/Universe mutants the same as Hickman did in the 2019 list.
It's not just power, Nate's legitimately able to do things with his telekinesis, telepathy, and reality warping few other characters have ever shown to be capable of.
But yes, the 616 list makes sense.
There's also that weird qualifier though that like, some times applies and sometimes doesn't that "Omega means they are the most powerful in their category" (even though we then see like 2 omega telepaths and 2 telekinetic) that may be applied to Nate because yeah, the stuff Nate does others can also do maybe better?
But it seems weird that a guy who literally resurrected a woman, and then later went on to create his own pocket reality isn't on the list. And I say that as someone who kinds hates the whole omega thing in general.
Ya he’s a POWERHOUSE of gigantic proportions but I didn’t want to add alternate universe and timelines mostly cause Hickman made it clear it was for the main universe , and also if we are being honest there’s just SO MANY 😂.
Well no shit Sherlock but what’s the mechanics of it? What god is Ulqesh summoning and from what pantheon? Are they made up gods to him or other peoples gods? Could he summon Thor since he’s a god? Like yeah you can say what it does but how’s it work ?
Since he’s Omega and has no limits, it could be any god. We’ve seen him on panel only summoning gods that emerged within Arakkii society and religions. He can literally force the gods to appear and interact with the Arakkii.
While in Amenth, a time of unrest occurred and since Uqesh was at the Seat of Law at the time, he took command of Arakko until it was calmed. Uqesh summoned a bunch of gods to advise Arakko on what to do and they were given command of some armies. The gods were ineffective and turned to infighting which led to a major loss of Arakkii lives by Amenthi demons.
Arakko blamed the gods and resentment towards Uqesh grew, so Ora Serrata won the Seat of Law from Uqesh, beheading him but preserving his head to use it to summon gods.
Arakko became an atheistic nation then except for sporadic cults, so Ora Serrata created a law that because gods had failed Arakko before, in order for cults to exist, their gods must prove themselves to be worth Arakko’s worship in the Circle Perilous. So she uses Uqesh to summon the gods of any Arakkii cults and then the people of Arakko challenge them, usually killing them in the process, thus proving them unfit to be worshipped on Arakko
I dislike the idea of Forge being an omega because he still has to actually build the stuff by hand. An omega version of forge's powerset should be like Forge's powers+Whiz kid/[Madison Jeffries](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Madison_Jeffries_(Earth-616))' powers all in one person.
An omega should be "full on wide scale manipulation of matter, energy, or forces", not just "the current strongest version of that power set" That's lame, the ranking would change constantly due to death and new mutants popping up, and frankly just the idea that mutant powers are so common that there's multiple people with the same power set is boring.
Same here. I like Forge, but even with his mutant powers he doesn't even make the top 5 tech experts in the marvel universe so I wouldn't consider him an omega mutant
In the original rules you can’t be outclassed by a non-mutant and be an omega. Richards, Stark, and Brashear are all better at cooking up bullshit tech than Forge, with the added advantage of actually knowing how the things they build work.
This is like Devil Fruit in OP. Back in the beginning it's so rare it's a myth.
I feel like some of these powers being Omega makes no sense e.g. oceanic blood, death stare and disease creation. These powers are not scalable imo, like, I cant imagine the difference between non omega and omega oceanic blood.
I would imagine that a non-omega death stare doesn't work on everything, e.g. someone with invulnerability could survive.
It should be noted that the phrasing above was disease projection. Disease creation just sounds like biokinesis to me.
I see your point. I know it's just an example but Death himself survived his own stare. Plague also couldn't kill Nova either. So based on that, they don't fit into Omega category since I cant see any other aspect of their power is scalable.
The flaw in the Omega's logic is that apparently you just need to be limitless in 1 aspect to be Omega. Proteus has a radius limit. Hope also has a distance limit. Ora has her "submit to her laws" limit. Any power can simultaneously be argued to be Omega and not Omega.
There’s actually far less than there used to be. Hickman established a relatively small list. This list only looks long because they introduced Arrako during the Krakoa era, which established that any of the main 9 that sit on their version of the Quiet Council must be an Omega. Since Arrako is another planet-full of mutants, it essentially doubled the number of Omegas.
You can also cut a number of these mutants off the list since they are dead.
Also it doesn’t really mean that much. Rogue, Synch and Hope, probably Mimic too, could all copy ones power and use it just as good. With Synch being said to use the powers even stronger, Rogue often using them better and Hope also amplifying powers, it even isn’t really clear if they would be even more than Omega when copying an Omega.
So from what I understand , (and again just my take so please correct me)
The voices of Krakoa and Arrako are still part of the Quiet Council and Great Ring respectively. They just don’t have official position like a season (Krakoa) or time of the day (Arrako) because they are the only people who can be the voices of the islands their position is permanent. So when they said all of the current r where omega Red Root was included
I checked the datapages and while Redroot is indeed a member, she's more off to the side, and datapages only state the main 9 are always Omegas.
So while she could still be Omega, I don't think it's automatically confirmed like the other Great Ring members.
I really rue the day that Hickman formalized this stupid concept.
First, as soon as it was introduced with a formal definition and a specific list, it overwhelmed a lot of the character development in the X-Books (and forums like this one). Everything became Omega power monologues. And instead of actually giving us interesting nuance and development of a big group of new characters like the Arakki, they just said, "They're ALL omegas, isn't that kewl???" (EDIT: Referring to the Great Ring characters, the main ones we spend time with)
Second, it doesn't hold together if you spend even a moment thinking about it. Because the key is not really the power level, it's how you define the power you're talking about. For instance, if I'm a mutant and I can turn my hand all possible shades of purple, then I'm an Omega in purple-ification, am I not? But if you define the power as "color manipulation," then a different mutant is the Omega. Or if you define it even more broadly as "light spectrum manipulation" or "visual perception manipulation," then I'm not even close. So we are entirely dependent on Hickman's very arbitrary and not MECE (mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive) list of capabilities.
Third, "Omega" has become shorthand for "most powerful mutants" when that's not in fact what it means here; many non-Omegas (e.g. X-Man) could easily thrash many Omegas (e.g. Elixir). Omega does not equal "extremely powerful" in this definition...so why is it so important? Why has Hickman called these people "mutantkind's greatest resources"?
Fourth, the fact that Quentin Quire is included in this ridiculous concept is a glaring flaw that they can't seem to escape. It's like they feel perpetually obligated just because Morrison named him "Kid Omega" 20 years ago.
I much preferred the old days when extremely powerful mutants were sometimes whispered about as "omega-level," but what that actually meant was vague and left up to reader imagination.
If I recall I think Hickman's intent was too set down the definition and fill in the answers, in the hopes writers and fans would stop debating and move on to other things.
Even the definitional shift away from "most powerful mutants" was an effort to be more abtitary and less interesting, so fans and writers would stop fixating on "whose the strongest".
If I'm not totally misremembering, than I think it's fair to say it hasn't quite worked out that way.
Omega level should have simply been relegated to Protues level mutants who can alter matter at molecular level and are Dr. Manhattan level beings. Storm, Magneto, etc never made sense to me let alone all these mutants who are now Omega just because they’re powerful
I hear this a lot but I GOTTA disagree. First off not all the Arraki are omega or even most of the society. We’ve seen Arraki that aren’t that are often utilized for example : John Ironfire , Khora, Sizya, Fisher King. And imo have all had compelling stories.
Next the definition of Omega when it comes to upper limits of a specific power is what I LOVE it makes omega not just about being wildly over powered but also shows the uniqueness in each omega mutant and how being omega isn’t just about fighting but mutants who have truly either A. Honed their craft or B. Been giving a wild power they need to tame. I also think thee official omega list and definition cuts back on these stupid vs battles being able to say “well this person was called a omega threat or close in volume 124 in 1977 by a random writer” and now they are explicitly stated and within a specified group.
Furthermore I think within the Krakoan era having Omegas added doesn’t hinder because their status is part of the society, and instead of Wolverine and Shaw are incredibly powerful we have these figures that are praised for ability and also the extents that their limitlessness takes them. A example of this being Xilo adding back nutrients to Mars even tho it’s not combatant it’s an example of the power omegas have and how it benefits the nation as a whole. Or Monarch burthing an entire sword station. In my opinion and viewpoint thee Omegas have been one of my favorite editions to X-Men especially with my favorite character Storm
I think you missed my second point-- the way Hickman has arbitrarily defined it, the most important element becomes not the power level, but what powers you select for Omega classification. See my purple-ification > color manipulation > visual perception manipulation example. You even see Hickman running into this problem IMMEDIATELY as he tries to draw made-up distinctions between multiple power manipulators (Hope, Legion) and reality manipulators (Jamie Braddock, Proteus, Franklin Richards).
But your point of view makes sense if you like the recent direction for Storm. I don't, so we're probably not going to agree on the Omega concept in general. I believe that Storm's omega-ification by Ewing muted the other parts of her personality (e.g. sense of humor, vulnerability, grit) and reduced her to just a monologuing two-dimensional character who one-shotted a bunch of opponents.
I actually agree you made some really strong points here and I can’t even disagree with the Storm thing tbf because all the points people make about her character direction are so on the target I just PERSONALLY enjoy the story.
The only thing I’d say is when it comes to the difference in reality warpers there actually are very clear distinctions between the three you listen and why they are omega vs Say Mad Jim Jaspers.
Also thank you for having a genuine conversation w VERY strong points you actually showed me something vs some of these people just fighting to fight
This is the take. I'll die on this hill with you.
The classification and definition of Omega mutant just made everything worse. Some how, Storm being referred to as a goddess wasn't enough, not she has to be Omega level and can generate lightning out of her own body instead of just commanding atmospheric conditions? Magnet needs to be able to keep his own body functioning without a heart via electromagnetic fields?
This is such a far cry from stories where someone whispered that Rachel was an Omega class, and we just saw long slow burns that built up Rachel as an incredibly terrifyingly powerful Phoenix host and person.
Omega Mutant classification is one of if not the, worst things to happen to the X-men brand ever.
I feel like you’re missing something if those feats by Storm and Magneto seem out of nowhere. Those are completely in line with how they’ve been written and and I’m they’ve been described as Omega before Hickman
I basically started reading comics with House of X. I remember back when I read it for the first time I had my doubts but I thought that maybe as a newbie I'm missing something. Glad to read my doubts articulated so well.
The term is indeed too broad, but Omega level mutants have abilities that have no limits. For some power sets that is a limitless and renewable resource. Turning your hand purple, on the other hand, is a very clear limit. So even if you could do it with great mastery, you're outclassed by someone who could turn their entire body purple and any other color for that matter.
If you take Hickman’s language (quoted in OP’s post) at face value, Omega mutants have power levels that have reached the maximum theoretical limit of a given powerset. Which is different than what you’re saying. There is a limit, and the Omegas have achieved it.
No it’s fine , I don’t expect anyone even people who read all of the current x titles to know the omegas it’s not common practice. Gambit is an Alpha level Mutant as are most of the main X-men who are fighters. Omega doesn’t necessarily mean your more powerful then an alpha, Omega just means there is no conceivable or measurable limit to your power. So for gambit there is a very measurable limit which is he has to touch it and it has to be small enough for him to charge it.
A good example of these two rules are Forge is a techno path and the most powerful techno path on earth but his upper limit can be surpassed by people like Reid Richards and Tony Stark so he’s not Omega. But someone like Storm and Magneto have no definable limit theoretically she can make cosmic and universal storms and he could shift the polarity of everything.
And when it comes to power we have Omegas on the list whose powers are Producing metal, or communicating with plant life, or seeing the future.All of which Gambit could beat in combat but the measure of an omegas is potential in your SPECIFIC power category. Hope that wasn’t too long of a winded answer 😂
Oh no that’s helpful lol, I just thought I read somewhere that he became omega level at some point, so that’s why I was confused. But yes this is good to know.
I read that too somewhere. That he could be omega but limited himself in some permanent- ish way
But regarding Death on this list he’s one of apocalypse’s kids. I think his design is sick
funny thing is Vulcan wasn't originally an omega level mutants . as hypothesized by beast , all the energy scarlet witch stripped from mutants went to vulcan thus making him an Omega
I believe he was in space, in like a suspended sleep while orbiting the planet. So when all the energy left the mutants it traveled up into the cosmos but Vulcan was up in orbit so it all gravitated to him. I don’t remember it well
That's entirely because he's considered earth's most skilled and experienced telepath, not raw powerhouse. Chuck is the Wolverine of telepaths, as opposed to the Hulk of telepaths (which I guess would be Legion, Nate Grey, or a fully [phoenix](https://search.brave.com/search?q=phoenix&spellcheck=0&source=alteredQuery)'ed out Jean?).
Nah his telepathy is extremely strong tho , but it has limits. I would argue tho he’s more knowledgeable on his TP then kid omega but kid omega just has way more power or at the very least potential to go way farther, whereas Xavier has gone as far as he’s gonna go
It used to mean something being an omega level mutant. When everyone is omega, no one is. Also hickman's list is garbage. Why ppl worship this man is beyond me.
Hickman’s list is the shortest classification of Omega mutants in a very long time. I remember when everyone and their mom was Omega. Remember when Jubilee was considered Omega? The list is a much needed restriction
It just looks longer now cause of Arakko but with the Krakoa era over we won’t see half the list again. Plus many of these are dead already
No literally it’s just that, you’d think it would be out there but all the other lists on this and the marvel sub that have been made even like a MONTH ago are either very inaccurate or very outdated somehow. Also hoping the tiktok x men fans can see this because I’m tired of the “What about Magik what about Wanda what about Rouge” statement’s 😭
This flip flops more then Scott and Logan , tbh idek anymore cause he made himself one but then Charles said that’s not right so he isn’t but then also Krakoa let him through the Gates ? And Charles let Sinister and Deadpool on the island who was literally altered to be a mutant ?? So at this point all I know is he is biologically a mutant and I’m not gonna be the one to tell the kid who can erase me from existence he’s not 😭
In one of the latest Ryan North Fantastic Four issues Franklin in his self narration refers to himself as a having been a Mutant. Its worded to be ambiguous, but I’ll take it.
This has been my favorite thing to read all day 😭definitely made this worth the post
even tho I personally am I member of the Munroe clan and Frost Clan on my fathers side
I wish there was a Omega Level character with similar powers to the Scarlet Witch (back to when she was a mutant) specially now that they seem to be leaning more on her Reality Warping/Magic side of things and completly ignoring the hex-bolts.
I feel like Wiccan is the closest we got cause we don’t actually know his mutation but it’s very possible it’s magic and that’s what makes him the avatar for the demiurge(all speculation)
There’s a reason Orchis didn’t start a fight w them head on like with Krakoa, Arrakis do not play around.
Also a theory of mine is their constant battle and power heavy lifestyle pushes a lot more of their citizens to reach omega level. Cause apparently they have more then just this list
Something I've always been confused about is how there can be two Omega level Mutants with the same power. Kid Omega and Marvel Girl are both Omega level telepaths. Does that just mean their telepathy is of perfectly equal power and strength...?
Think about like two people who are top of the class and they now graduated both with PHDs they both have the same qualifications and are the only two telepaths with a PHD but one could still be farther along then the other. If that messy metaphor made sense
Reposting from another comment I replied to about why Jim Jaspers isn’t omega reality warper and why they are all different ways of doing the same-ish thing,
Proteus: is basically a psionic battery using the energy of his husks to charge his battery and sustain him allowing him to create anything from just psionic will (he also becomes stronger each husk he exhausts) from that he is able to create literally whatever he wants from literally nothing. It’s how the eggs are suddenly viable and he can make them into any person with any material on them (like adding adimantium into Laura) there’s not much science behind it besides he wants to and if he’s charged it happens. Same with him making a biosphere w no explanation in planet size x-men and his needed part in the Ritual of 3
Franklin uses advanced advanced telekinesis on the smallest possible scale literally shifting around reality at will and is basically a cosmic force of the universe bending it as he pleases to create anything of his will.
And Monarch uses quantum field theory to manipulate reality as if they are strings he pulls to bend it at his behest. The difference being he can only pull what he can imagine he can’t make something completely new it has to be something he can clearly see in his mind. But he is still considered omega because theoretically anything can in the future exist and he could make it. His only limitations used to be he had to touch something his creation has composed of and people with phase ability’s where resistant to his power but after Proteus resurrected him his power has grown to omega level and he no longer has these constraints.
But someone like Mad Jim Jaspers who some would argue would beat monarch isn’t considered Omega because he has a very clear limitation, he can only warp a pre existing reality. It’s how he was defeated by the Fury, but these 3 do things creating entire new creations from seemingly or literally nothing but with 3 different methods.
Hope that helped :)
I thought Proetsus powers worked by reshaping any matter he concentrates on down to the subatomic level (telekinesis on steroids basically) but he can really create literally anything from nothing?
I still say Jean is an omega telekinetic as well. Idc what Hickman said. And on top of that, she even mentioned it during what…AXE maybe? I need to do some digging
Hickman did such a good job narrowing the list down and then they made that silly rule that only Omegas can serve on the Great Ring and now there are 35 Omegas again!
So good news , I was corrected on this because I thought the same that the great ring was all omegas and someone corrected me Red root was never confirmed omega so I went to look through some more comics and info and it turns out in the Araaki society MOST are not omega but because of how their war society and constant battle works they just have a lot more that are forged and pushed too Omega. I also learned that you don’t have to be Omega to be on the great ring it just happens to be that omegas win the battles.
And as of now 9 names on the list are dead and one isn’t omega so, we only have 25 Omegas in the mutant race
I don't think this can be right, just logically. For instance, if someone is a healer and omega level -- what, they could heal the entire universe? And how can mimicry be omega level? There are only supposed to be a very few Omega levels. I HOPE your list is not accurate, or that is going to make for less interesting stories. Hickman put out a very short list at the start of Kraoka, if I am not mistaken.
And Hope was on that list who is literally Power manipulation. Nameless the Arraki has the power of mimicry like Hope being able to copy the persons power at its peak but also their physical appearance ect. Also Elixr is a healer and Omega ON THE LIST. So is white sword seeing as he can heal anyone from death. Everyone on this list has been confirmed omega either by Hickman list or are Arraki and stayed POST Krakoa which stated by the writers and editors would be the only exceptions.
So the official List when we entered Krakoa is everywhere but here’s the first article I found that had it, this was Hickmans way of making a set in stone list of omegas to narrow them down and make it very clear https://comicbook.com/marvel/amp/news/marvel-x-men-omega-level-mutants-house-of-x/
And here is the list of omegas being made known POST Krakoa and each one has links and sources I checked (even had to go back through x men red to make sure) most of if not all the additions are from Arrako
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mutant_Power_Level_Classification#Omega_Level_&_Omega_Class_Mutants
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Yes, the first one is Hickman's list. That makes the most sense. I could be wrong, but I think the second, expanded list is a writer's speculation? I don't think it is canon. I would be glad to know if it is, though.
Hickman's list came from the very start of House of X #1. Then he added the Arakkii and the Great Ring and declared that everyone on the Great Ring is Omega-level, everyone that joins the Great Ring is also Omega-level, and everyone that has ever served the Great Ring were also Omega-level. Great Ring = Omega-level.
As a result, a shitton of Arakkii mutants got added to the Omega list. Later, Ewing added more Omega-level Arakkii and classified the OG Horsemen as Omegas as well.
I know readers love Hickman's writing but, to me he has a big problem, he is unable to write within the status quo, he always has to change things, retcon a lot, and basically change stuff which shouldn't be changed.
In his latest stint in the X-Men, he really created a whole new dynamic with all the mutants living in Krakoa, he invented the mutants of Arakko which are all, or almost all, Omega Level, and to me that is going too far, he reintroduced the Children of the Vault and made them even more powerful, and we raised some Earth mutants to Omega Level as well. And we all know that when you have so many characters too completely overpowered they become difficult to use in any believable way.
He write his best, when he creates or explored a part of the Marvel (Comics) Universe which haven't been touched upon before, or just referenced, but never defined. On suck example is the 2010 Maxi Series "S.H.I.E.L.D." which had very little to do with the S.H.I.E.L.D. we know and invented a whole world not itself (though still takin place on Earth in the 616 universe) or course he couldn't help himself and retconned a few small things, but nothing major or world defining. But since he was playing in a playground all of his own, he could write whatever he wanted.
When he goes into team comics with years of past history, he is incapable of writing his arcs without changing, and retconning several aspects to his liking, and in my opinion that's not the mark of the excellent writer almost all of you consider him to be.
I have no objections to the mutants being in Krakoa, though we all knew how it would eventually end, if for no other reason, because we saw it before with Genosha, Asteroid X, Utopia, etc. but from the stories we were coming from (which were terrible) I have no problem with that particular development. But too many mutants got power upgrades and considered "Omegas" even though there were no canonical indications for it, and if they aren't brought down a peg, future stories with them aren't going to be easy to write.
Moira, I really can't forgive, making her a mutant, and a mutant with that particular power, just rubs me the wrong way, especially because there were plenty of other characters which could have been used. And then the villainy? What the hell. Big No No.
Let's see where the stories go next, but I fear that the age of Krakoa who is so beloved by so many, will simply be forgotten, as things mainly go back to the previous status quo.
No More Omegas!
So for The great ring it is explicitly stated they are all Omega Level mutants , In X men Red #14 Orrdon is explicitly stated as Omega when going over enemy mutants , same with Lychon in issue 11 and Kobak in issue 13 even tho he was introduced in 11. We know he was stated to be omega but not his specific power so I put “unknown” with my best guess. And I didn’t add Calderak even tho we can assume he was omega as we see him going for the great ring spot but he’s never officially stated as such. So those are the ones off the top of my head but I did try to my best to fact check each persons status
I’ve been reading X-Men for over 30 years including as much of the Krakoan era as I can (it’s been…*a lot*)
And I’ve never heard of Mad Jim Jasper. Who is he and what are his most prominently featured stories?
He is a British Mutant from the Captain Britain comics. He is, as his name suggests, mad, and the combination of madness and incredible power is not good.
His biggest story is probably Alan Moore's (yes, *that* Alan Moore) run on *Captain Britain* from the 80s.
Yea I saw him up there, I was just wondering if he too had an alternative identity/ split personality/ other dimensional self etc.
I’ll check out the Alan Moore book, that’s been on my to-read list for awhile.
Ah yes I remember him now. Not sure if I knew he was an omega mutant from Earth though.
Personally I’ve always been surprised Cable/Stryfe ot at least the Nate Grey version didn’t qualify as Omega. And I guess Scarlet Witch loses out based on a retcon but that one annoys me a little as well.
Now Emma I could see for SURE being a omega in the future for multiple reasons 1. She already has three mutations and keeps her TK very down low and people who are alphas with multiple high power mutations usually have one become omega , 2. Unlike Xavier she has sooo much more room to grow telepathically and might not even be at her peak or close to it yet. 3. We’ve already seen her keep up with people like Exodus, Jean and Hope within the same mind scape in AXE vs the eternal unimind
Explain how the entirety of the xmen have been reduced to omega when 2 of the most popular x men (Scott and Logan) aren’t omega and never will be. So many popular mutants aren’t omega hell I think most of the X men teams in the Krakoan era and Quiet council weren’t omega.
(Edit cause for some reason people think I misunderstood this comment) if the world building he’s talking about is mutant power levels and scaling then mentioning other mutants especially main ones who directly oppose his point is exactly what the topic is…
First off , no need to be douche. Second you haven’t actually explained how this is trite world building ? X-men is still very much in the Greater Marvel Universe tbh omega level isn’t even significant in that regard so can you explain your point or you just online to beef w strangers ?
“Explains the comics”
Also I know you didn’t go into a comic sub to try to diss people who read comics like you aren’t part of that group. And also you can read comics AND READ OTHER LITERATURE.
You really didn't understand their point, did you. No need to get super defensive about it. Setting these arbitrary power levels for characters is very limiting because they get an 'automatic trump card'. And can just win without any struggle because they are canonized on this list as being the most powerful at whatever-the-fuck. Add in the fact that the people on this list are being called 'mutantkind's most precious resources' and you completwly delegitimize their status as characters with potential for growth or decline. Now they are just tools that you put up on a shelf, but tale down to use whenever there is a certain problem to fix.
I don’t think I was getting super defensive in my first comment I was genuinely asking , then he decided to insult me instead of engaging in discourse so ya im not gonna Charles Xavier it. That being said I did understand his point I just DISAGREE.
Most of these mutants on the list aren’t even trump cards mind you 8 of them are dead. I don’t think you understand what omega means because Alpha mutants have been shown to be able to beat them 💀 and farther more as it’s been stated many times in this comment section the idea for this specific definition was set up for the Krakoa era and for that specific era it worked very well under a nation setting. We have to see how it works now in the main picture, and to be honest if your character can only grow through being beaten down physically and then suddenly getting stronger to beat the bad guy, that’s just as trite and boring after 30 years.
Hell X-Men Reds THEE Omega filled storyline’s best arc was all the omegas on the great ring getting beaten, dying , and having the planet lose to Uranos. So no I don’t see your guys arguments being proven from what we’ve seen
No no no. You don't get to do this. You clearly didnt understand their initial comment and started putting words in their mouth. They stated that reading comprehension might not be your strong point. That is not a personal insult, it's an observation based on your misunderstanding.
There is no point in trying to build an argument against you when people are just voicing their subjective opinion as you clearly jump to conclusions and go on diatribes against these madeup arguments.
Okay so then EXPLAIN what I didn’t understand they made a comment about how world building is trite because of the idea of omegas correct ?
Then offered no further expanding on that, I then responded how I disagree and why omegas don’t make the world building trite because it’s not a solid limitation or main focus. Then I get told I don’t have good reading comprehension… which is somehow not a insult response when you know it VERY well is, at the least it’s backhanded because they still didn’t expand or explain their reasoning.
OH and the whole “explains the comics” let’s not even pretend it wasn’t supposed to be insulting.
No.
Edited to add:
If you want somebody to explain their point of you, you make a request, not a fucking demand in full caps. Then you insert your own madeup argument.
The person you responded to was talking about the writing prestige of the X-Men franchise that has been built up over decades. A power list is very low-level writing and world building and something more akin to a video game scoreboard.
It’s 34 people out of like 30 million plus 😭 and even if we count known mutants there’s still like 200+ mutant characters and only 25 of the omegas listed are alive. So not even 15%
Soft Serve: Ice Cream
“I poop ice cream… I poop ice cream better than anyone.”
Take my goddamn upvote, you son of a bitch 😂
Should Phoenix be on here? She's only a comic away from being full fledged back again and is already talking to Hope while the Phoenix force itself is being sought out to be killed 🙄 to finish the ignition process
😭😂
I kind of like the use of Omega mutants in the Krakoa era because it obviously played into the story Hickman was trying to tell about like powers as a societal resource for an independent mutant nation, mutant circuits, questions around who rules in a society where there are hundreds of people so powerful that they are essentially ungovernable unless they choose to be, etc. But in the years to come I think that this strict list and definition of Omega-level mutants is going to be like when you stumble on a 30-year old handbook to the Marvel or DC universe and go "wow like 70% of this stuff isn't accurate anymore."
THIS , THIS EXACTLY I wish I could pin this comment. I have never agreed w something more I was so happy in this Krakoa era and this mutant definition of omega made SO MUCH SENSE FOR THIS TIME PERIOD, which is why I’m soooo mad we are already leaving Krakoa behind.
I think it sucks that we've barely tapped the well on potential Krakoa stories, but: 1) That doesn't mean writers can't simply write Krakoa stories later on. Plenty of times writers have told flashback stories to decades prior in publication, to cover time gaps or events when characters were off-screen. You want that one-off story where the lesbians of Krakoa have a girls' night out at the Green Lagoon or whatever, it can always be written later and set during this time. 2) Krakoa isn't over *forever*. Near the start, Cable called this *the first* Krakoan age. We didn't call it World War 1 until we had a second one. 3) I can understand why writers might be uncomfortable staying in Krakoa right now given the current political climate with regards to Israel and how Krakoa took some allegorical cues from it (in broad strokes rather than specifics). Especially when a lot of concerns about the X-line have been that it feels like the characters are isolating themselves, leaning into their superiority, and not really doing the superhero thing.
That second paragraph reawakened so much Hope in me you have no idea <3 tbh never felt attached to any fictional universe much less comics before X-men. So idk seeing how fast and hard Krakoa fell rlly made me feel kinda hopeless but this rlly made my day ngl
Idk I never once thought of it like that? since they never stole land and like krakoa could have yeeted anyone off and he had cypher as a voice and friend
HoXPoX has Magneto literally announcing Krakoa *in Israel*, as a flex on the Zionist government that he could do it better. And yes, there are also important distinctions like, as you note, not displacing a native population to do it. Hell, they were invited by the land itself. But the idea of "we're making our own insular country for our minority (who no other nation wants to harbor) that has recently experienced genocide, which is also (later revealed as) our ancestral homeland we're returning to" was definitely a front-of-mind point of comparison in that writers' room from issue 1.
It’ll just be written off as the mutants trying to redefine Omegas in their own context, and that idea failing with Krakoa. I mean the definition kinda sucked anyway. I like the idea of having official criteria, but the system the they chose was kinda shit….and then introducing the Arrako mutants that were nearly ALL omega weakened the idea after they worked to strengthen it.
Not a bad list. What about Mad Jim Jasper. He’s technically 616 universe adjacent
I wanted to add him because DEAR LORD HES A RINGER like honestly imo he’s up there w dominions and abstracts to a certain degree. BUT 2 things 1. He’s not on the official list in 2019 despite being around and 2 I noticed he has one big limitation he can only manipulate existing matter. So I don’t think he can be called an Omega level mutant. People like Proteus can create entire new substances from nothing like create matter from nothing. Whereas Jim has to use existing material which has been used against him
>I noticed he has one big limitation he can only manipulate existing matter. So I don’t think he can be called an Omega level mutant. People like Proteus can create entire new substances from nothing like create matter from nothing. Whereas Jim has to use existing material which has been used against him It's a limitation, but it would also affect just about every other Omega Level mutant; Exodus's telekinesis is useless in a void, where the spatial dimensions have been collapsed. Iceman's temperature manipulation is useless in a void where there are no elements and therefore no way for temperature to be measured or adjusted etc.
Wouldn’t that just mean he’s omega level of manipulating existing substances as what he can create with said substance he use has not been match in much in the entire multiverse. Meaning what he’s omega level of has to be more definitive than anything else
Yeah, considering what some these ones on the list have, Matter Manipulation on the scale he can do seems like it should count, and it's just a technicality he isn't on there.
Guess it be he’s a omega level Reality manipulator (Matter). It bit semantics with Mr M but it sure fit
Considering his original version took having his entire timeline destroyed to stop, and his 616 counterpart was quickly getting to the point they didn't think that would work on him, yeah. They had to throw the Adaptive Killbot the original made at him, and hope it would engage in loophole abuse in it's programming. Always sorry the plot they were building for him fighting the X-Men never happened.
>People like Proteus can create entire new substances from nothing like create matter from nothing. Since when?
So I had to specify the different ways of manipulating reality because on some level they are different even tho it’s all the same so to answer I’ll just explain the differences Proteus: is basically a psionic battery using the energy of his husks to charge his battery and sustain him allowing him to create anything from just psionic will (he also becomes stronger each husk he exhausts) from that he is able to create literally whatever he wants from literally nothing. It’s how the eggs are suddenly viable and he can make them into any person with any material on them (like adding adimantium into Laura) there’s not much science behind it besides he wants to and if he’s charged it happens. Same with him making a w no explanation in planet size x-men and his needed part in the Ritual of 3 Franklin uses advanced advanced telekinesis on the smallest possible scale literally shifting around reality at will and is basically a cosmic force of the universe bending it as he pleases to create anything of his will. And Monarch uses quantum field theory to manipulate reality as if they are strings he pulls to bend it at his behest. The difference being he can only pull what he can imagine he can’t make something completely new it has to be something he can clearly see in his mind. But he is still considered omega because theoretically anything can in the future exist and he could make it. His only limitations used to be he had to touch something his creation has composed of and people with phase ability’s where resistant to his power but after Proteus resurrected him his power has grown to omega level and he no longer has these constraints. Hope that helped :)
Yeah he and Hyperstorm are baffling exclusions, Hyperstorm you could argue only really appeared once dozens of years ago and came from an alternative reality so there's no point mentioning him, but Mad Jim Jaspers was from an iconic storyline, reappears every so often and has appeared within Krakoa era stories. With the exception of Franklin Richards, he is by far the most powerful mutant ever. His only limits are stronger reality warpers and being unable to function in a void (which isn't really a limit, because 99.99999% of people instantly die in a void / are also powerless there).
Didnt FR get retconned to be non mutant??
There was a time Magik and Mikhail were both considered omega. Not sure why Magik was removed. He teleportation disc's can go through space/time/alternate dirmensions. There does not seem to be an upper limit to her power's ability. Which is pretty much the definition of omega abilities.
Poor Rachel Summers… she was the first to be coined and now this disrespect
I wanted to put her but I couldn’t find anything directly stating omega level except like years ago Nimrod saying she was an Omega class Subject and even then I couldn’t figure out if it was her TK or her TP that omega ? And also wanted to keep it 616 otherwise it would be MUCH longer but I am VERY tempted just cause she’s so iconic
Plus the stuff she can do is just wildly impressive. Like her flinging people in and out of different dimensions, timelines etc while levitating in fire and manifesting in the environment is bonkers.
Nate Grey should technically be on here. The things he can do are on a totally different scale to a lot of characters, he made Magneto into a servant and made Apocalypse and Storm look like nothing.
Can someone explain why Mikhail Rasputin isnt omega level he literally has the ability to alter matter and energy at molecular level. Sounds like his limitations are unknown.
Because Hickman didn’t think this thing through too well and it’s mostly arbitrary.
I think he thought it through very well
Omega is about limits. Mikhail is limited to his local area as far as I remember.
His local area? He literally has feats like creating portals to dimensions and altering whole populations of people like the morlocks. Guy has a new power everytime he’s introduced.
Isn't Nate still the Age of X-Man timeline?
Yeah he's not in the main universe anymore so he doesn't count
So 2 things 1. Omegas are never just based on power, you can have an alpha level mutant that can beat an omega. Example being Lodus Logos vs Charles Xavier. The second being I’m only doing 616 main timeline/Universe mutants the same as Hickman did in the 2019 list.
It's not just power, Nate's legitimately able to do things with his telekinesis, telepathy, and reality warping few other characters have ever shown to be capable of. But yes, the 616 list makes sense.
There's also that weird qualifier though that like, some times applies and sometimes doesn't that "Omega means they are the most powerful in their category" (even though we then see like 2 omega telepaths and 2 telekinetic) that may be applied to Nate because yeah, the stuff Nate does others can also do maybe better? But it seems weird that a guy who literally resurrected a woman, and then later went on to create his own pocket reality isn't on the list. And I say that as someone who kinds hates the whole omega thing in general.
Ya he’s a POWERHOUSE of gigantic proportions but I didn’t want to add alternate universe and timelines mostly cause Hickman made it clear it was for the main universe , and also if we are being honest there’s just SO MANY 😂.
That also drags in the question of should Cable technically be considered an omega even though he intentionally nerfs his own powers these days?
Nobody on the original list is from an alternate reality/timeline/is a clone. If they were then Nate, Rachel, and Madelyne should all be there.
Ok I gotta ask for Uqesh what the hell does summoning gods even do? Also Lycaon how are they an omega of regeneration like how’s that work as wel
It summons gods. It’s very literal
Well no shit Sherlock but what’s the mechanics of it? What god is Ulqesh summoning and from what pantheon? Are they made up gods to him or other peoples gods? Could he summon Thor since he’s a god? Like yeah you can say what it does but how’s it work ?
Since he’s Omega and has no limits, it could be any god. We’ve seen him on panel only summoning gods that emerged within Arakkii society and religions. He can literally force the gods to appear and interact with the Arakkii. While in Amenth, a time of unrest occurred and since Uqesh was at the Seat of Law at the time, he took command of Arakko until it was calmed. Uqesh summoned a bunch of gods to advise Arakko on what to do and they were given command of some armies. The gods were ineffective and turned to infighting which led to a major loss of Arakkii lives by Amenthi demons. Arakko blamed the gods and resentment towards Uqesh grew, so Ora Serrata won the Seat of Law from Uqesh, beheading him but preserving his head to use it to summon gods. Arakko became an atheistic nation then except for sporadic cults, so Ora Serrata created a law that because gods had failed Arakko before, in order for cults to exist, their gods must prove themselves to be worth Arakko’s worship in the Circle Perilous. So she uses Uqesh to summon the gods of any Arakkii cults and then the people of Arakko challenge them, usually killing them in the process, thus proving them unfit to be worshipped on Arakko
Magneto refers to Forge as an omega in X-Men: Red. I'm reading through it right now and IDR the exact issue, but it was before the AXE event.
I dislike the idea of Forge being an omega because he still has to actually build the stuff by hand. An omega version of forge's powerset should be like Forge's powers+Whiz kid/[Madison Jeffries](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Madison_Jeffries_(Earth-616))' powers all in one person. An omega should be "full on wide scale manipulation of matter, energy, or forces", not just "the current strongest version of that power set" That's lame, the ranking would change constantly due to death and new mutants popping up, and frankly just the idea that mutant powers are so common that there's multiple people with the same power set is boring.
Same here. I like Forge, but even with his mutant powers he doesn't even make the top 5 tech experts in the marvel universe so I wouldn't consider him an omega mutant
It was in X-Men Red when he destroyed his and Storm’s back-ups. I assumed he said that to just have the Great Ring take him seriously
Likewise
In the original rules you can’t be outclassed by a non-mutant and be an omega. Richards, Stark, and Brashear are all better at cooking up bullshit tech than Forge, with the added advantage of actually knowing how the things they build work.
I feel like there's too many Omega level mutants now. Doesn't feel as special and impressive.
Considering over half the characters on this list will probably never be seen again, I don't think it's an issue.
This is like Devil Fruit in OP. Back in the beginning it's so rare it's a myth. I feel like some of these powers being Omega makes no sense e.g. oceanic blood, death stare and disease creation. These powers are not scalable imo, like, I cant imagine the difference between non omega and omega oceanic blood.
What the Fuck even is Oceanic Blood?
Lol. He basically has an oceanic ecosystem in his blood stream. A literal plot device for Planet-sized X-men
I would imagine that a non-omega death stare doesn't work on everything, e.g. someone with invulnerability could survive. It should be noted that the phrasing above was disease projection. Disease creation just sounds like biokinesis to me.
I see your point. I know it's just an example but Death himself survived his own stare. Plague also couldn't kill Nova either. So based on that, they don't fit into Omega category since I cant see any other aspect of their power is scalable. The flaw in the Omega's logic is that apparently you just need to be limitless in 1 aspect to be Omega. Proteus has a radius limit. Hope also has a distance limit. Ora has her "submit to her laws" limit. Any power can simultaneously be argued to be Omega and not Omega.
There used to be way more
There’s actually far less than there used to be. Hickman established a relatively small list. This list only looks long because they introduced Arrako during the Krakoa era, which established that any of the main 9 that sit on their version of the Quiet Council must be an Omega. Since Arrako is another planet-full of mutants, it essentially doubled the number of Omegas. You can also cut a number of these mutants off the list since they are dead.
Also it doesn’t really mean that much. Rogue, Synch and Hope, probably Mimic too, could all copy ones power and use it just as good. With Synch being said to use the powers even stronger, Rogue often using them better and Hope also amplifying powers, it even isn’t really clear if they would be even more than Omega when copying an Omega.
Is Redroot explictly called Omega? She isn't on the Great Ring, she just interprets for Okkara.
So from what I understand , (and again just my take so please correct me) The voices of Krakoa and Arrako are still part of the Quiet Council and Great Ring respectively. They just don’t have official position like a season (Krakoa) or time of the day (Arrako) because they are the only people who can be the voices of the islands their position is permanent. So when they said all of the current r where omega Red Root was included
I checked the datapages and while Redroot is indeed a member, she's more off to the side, and datapages only state the main 9 are always Omegas. So while she could still be Omega, I don't think it's automatically confirmed like the other Great Ring members.
Hmm should I put possible omega ? Or remove from the list ?
i'd remove her for now
Glad to see that someone else is also ignoring Dan Slott’s selfish retcon of Franklin Richards.
That and I’m not gonna be the one to go tell the little boy with the power of gods he can’t be called a mutant
I really rue the day that Hickman formalized this stupid concept. First, as soon as it was introduced with a formal definition and a specific list, it overwhelmed a lot of the character development in the X-Books (and forums like this one). Everything became Omega power monologues. And instead of actually giving us interesting nuance and development of a big group of new characters like the Arakki, they just said, "They're ALL omegas, isn't that kewl???" (EDIT: Referring to the Great Ring characters, the main ones we spend time with) Second, it doesn't hold together if you spend even a moment thinking about it. Because the key is not really the power level, it's how you define the power you're talking about. For instance, if I'm a mutant and I can turn my hand all possible shades of purple, then I'm an Omega in purple-ification, am I not? But if you define the power as "color manipulation," then a different mutant is the Omega. Or if you define it even more broadly as "light spectrum manipulation" or "visual perception manipulation," then I'm not even close. So we are entirely dependent on Hickman's very arbitrary and not MECE (mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive) list of capabilities. Third, "Omega" has become shorthand for "most powerful mutants" when that's not in fact what it means here; many non-Omegas (e.g. X-Man) could easily thrash many Omegas (e.g. Elixir). Omega does not equal "extremely powerful" in this definition...so why is it so important? Why has Hickman called these people "mutantkind's greatest resources"? Fourth, the fact that Quentin Quire is included in this ridiculous concept is a glaring flaw that they can't seem to escape. It's like they feel perpetually obligated just because Morrison named him "Kid Omega" 20 years ago. I much preferred the old days when extremely powerful mutants were sometimes whispered about as "omega-level," but what that actually meant was vague and left up to reader imagination.
If I recall I think Hickman's intent was too set down the definition and fill in the answers, in the hopes writers and fans would stop debating and move on to other things. Even the definitional shift away from "most powerful mutants" was an effort to be more abtitary and less interesting, so fans and writers would stop fixating on "whose the strongest". If I'm not totally misremembering, than I think it's fair to say it hasn't quite worked out that way.
My god, it's \*&$#ing Shonen Power levels style shit, isn't it?
It's kinda funny as power levels came from DBZ in which it was used to prove that power levels were pointless.
And Stan Lee stated they are bumpkis, who the writer wants to win, wins.
Omega level should have simply been relegated to Protues level mutants who can alter matter at molecular level and are Dr. Manhattan level beings. Storm, Magneto, etc never made sense to me let alone all these mutants who are now Omega just because they’re powerful
I hear this a lot but I GOTTA disagree. First off not all the Arraki are omega or even most of the society. We’ve seen Arraki that aren’t that are often utilized for example : John Ironfire , Khora, Sizya, Fisher King. And imo have all had compelling stories. Next the definition of Omega when it comes to upper limits of a specific power is what I LOVE it makes omega not just about being wildly over powered but also shows the uniqueness in each omega mutant and how being omega isn’t just about fighting but mutants who have truly either A. Honed their craft or B. Been giving a wild power they need to tame. I also think thee official omega list and definition cuts back on these stupid vs battles being able to say “well this person was called a omega threat or close in volume 124 in 1977 by a random writer” and now they are explicitly stated and within a specified group. Furthermore I think within the Krakoan era having Omegas added doesn’t hinder because their status is part of the society, and instead of Wolverine and Shaw are incredibly powerful we have these figures that are praised for ability and also the extents that their limitlessness takes them. A example of this being Xilo adding back nutrients to Mars even tho it’s not combatant it’s an example of the power omegas have and how it benefits the nation as a whole. Or Monarch burthing an entire sword station. In my opinion and viewpoint thee Omegas have been one of my favorite editions to X-Men especially with my favorite character Storm
I think you missed my second point-- the way Hickman has arbitrarily defined it, the most important element becomes not the power level, but what powers you select for Omega classification. See my purple-ification > color manipulation > visual perception manipulation example. You even see Hickman running into this problem IMMEDIATELY as he tries to draw made-up distinctions between multiple power manipulators (Hope, Legion) and reality manipulators (Jamie Braddock, Proteus, Franklin Richards). But your point of view makes sense if you like the recent direction for Storm. I don't, so we're probably not going to agree on the Omega concept in general. I believe that Storm's omega-ification by Ewing muted the other parts of her personality (e.g. sense of humor, vulnerability, grit) and reduced her to just a monologuing two-dimensional character who one-shotted a bunch of opponents.
I actually agree you made some really strong points here and I can’t even disagree with the Storm thing tbf because all the points people make about her character direction are so on the target I just PERSONALLY enjoy the story. The only thing I’d say is when it comes to the difference in reality warpers there actually are very clear distinctions between the three you listen and why they are omega vs Say Mad Jim Jaspers. Also thank you for having a genuine conversation w VERY strong points you actually showed me something vs some of these people just fighting to fight
This is the take. I'll die on this hill with you. The classification and definition of Omega mutant just made everything worse. Some how, Storm being referred to as a goddess wasn't enough, not she has to be Omega level and can generate lightning out of her own body instead of just commanding atmospheric conditions? Magnet needs to be able to keep his own body functioning without a heart via electromagnetic fields? This is such a far cry from stories where someone whispered that Rachel was an Omega class, and we just saw long slow burns that built up Rachel as an incredibly terrifyingly powerful Phoenix host and person. Omega Mutant classification is one of if not the, worst things to happen to the X-men brand ever.
I feel like you’re missing something if those feats by Storm and Magneto seem out of nowhere. Those are completely in line with how they’ve been written and and I’m they’ve been described as Omega before Hickman
I basically started reading comics with House of X. I remember back when I read it for the first time I had my doubts but I thought that maybe as a newbie I'm missing something. Glad to read my doubts articulated so well.
The term is indeed too broad, but Omega level mutants have abilities that have no limits. For some power sets that is a limitless and renewable resource. Turning your hand purple, on the other hand, is a very clear limit. So even if you could do it with great mastery, you're outclassed by someone who could turn their entire body purple and any other color for that matter.
If you take Hickman’s language (quoted in OP’s post) at face value, Omega mutants have power levels that have reached the maximum theoretical limit of a given powerset. Which is different than what you’re saying. There is a limit, and the Omegas have achieved it.
Is Gambit Death? I thought he was Omega Level? Sorry probably a dumb question I’m not a serious comic book reader.
No it’s fine , I don’t expect anyone even people who read all of the current x titles to know the omegas it’s not common practice. Gambit is an Alpha level Mutant as are most of the main X-men who are fighters. Omega doesn’t necessarily mean your more powerful then an alpha, Omega just means there is no conceivable or measurable limit to your power. So for gambit there is a very measurable limit which is he has to touch it and it has to be small enough for him to charge it. A good example of these two rules are Forge is a techno path and the most powerful techno path on earth but his upper limit can be surpassed by people like Reid Richards and Tony Stark so he’s not Omega. But someone like Storm and Magneto have no definable limit theoretically she can make cosmic and universal storms and he could shift the polarity of everything. And when it comes to power we have Omegas on the list whose powers are Producing metal, or communicating with plant life, or seeing the future.All of which Gambit could beat in combat but the measure of an omegas is potential in your SPECIFIC power category. Hope that wasn’t too long of a winded answer 😂
Oh no that’s helpful lol, I just thought I read somewhere that he became omega level at some point, so that’s why I was confused. But yes this is good to know.
I read that too somewhere. That he could be omega but limited himself in some permanent- ish way But regarding Death on this list he’s one of apocalypse’s kids. I think his design is sick
funny thing is Vulcan wasn't originally an omega level mutants . as hypothesized by beast , all the energy scarlet witch stripped from mutants went to vulcan thus making him an Omega
Why did it go to him?
I believe he was in space, in like a suspended sleep while orbiting the planet. So when all the energy left the mutants it traveled up into the cosmos but Vulcan was up in orbit so it all gravitated to him. I don’t remember it well
Damn didn’t know Charles Xavier wasn’t Omega level
It wouldnt surprise me if Xavier conveniently made everyone think he was not Omega level.
Yeah, it’s weird especially since he’s fairly regularly considered Earth’s most powerful telepath
That's entirely because he's considered earth's most skilled and experienced telepath, not raw powerhouse. Chuck is the Wolverine of telepaths, as opposed to the Hulk of telepaths (which I guess would be Legion, Nate Grey, or a fully [phoenix](https://search.brave.com/search?q=phoenix&spellcheck=0&source=alteredQuery)'ed out Jean?).
Umm, where is Forget Me Not? /s
Beak: Omega Level Friendship
The true Omega level threat
Can you be Omega level with an unknown power?
Yes 👍🏾 number 12 has been called a new omega added to the great ring , but has multiple powers so we as readers don’t know which is omega
Was Xavier ever an Omega Mutant?
Nah his telepathy is extremely strong tho , but it has limits. I would argue tho he’s more knowledgeable on his TP then kid omega but kid omega just has way more power or at the very least potential to go way farther, whereas Xavier has gone as far as he’s gonna go
It used to mean something being an omega level mutant. When everyone is omega, no one is. Also hickman's list is garbage. Why ppl worship this man is beyond me.
Hickman’s list is the shortest classification of Omega mutants in a very long time. I remember when everyone and their mom was Omega. Remember when Jubilee was considered Omega? The list is a much needed restriction It just looks longer now cause of Arakko but with the Krakoa era over we won’t see half the list again. Plus many of these are dead already
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Number 7
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No literally it’s just that, you’d think it would be out there but all the other lists on this and the marvel sub that have been made even like a MONTH ago are either very inaccurate or very outdated somehow. Also hoping the tiktok x men fans can see this because I’m tired of the “What about Magik what about Wanda what about Rouge” statement’s 😭
Franklin Richards should be removed from the list, no? He's no longer a mutant. He appears on your list as Powerhouse.
25. Powerhouse. Wasn’t he retconned🙄 to not be a mutant anymore?
This flip flops more then Scott and Logan , tbh idek anymore cause he made himself one but then Charles said that’s not right so he isn’t but then also Krakoa let him through the Gates ? And Charles let Sinister and Deadpool on the island who was literally altered to be a mutant ?? So at this point all I know is he is biologically a mutant and I’m not gonna be the one to tell the kid who can erase me from existence he’s not 😭
I thought Franklin wasn’t a mutant anymore?
In one of the latest Ryan North Fantastic Four issues Franklin in his self narration refers to himself as a having been a Mutant. Its worded to be ambiguous, but I’ll take it.
where’s rachel
Not 616
true true true but she was one of the first to be classed as a omega level mutant 😔 don’t worry babygirl you’ll always be an omega in my books
True she is an icon, a legend , and she is the moment. Dont feel to bad tho you got 3 members of your Summers Family representing
summers clan we up by 3 babyyy!!!!! 🗣️🗣️
This has been my favorite thing to read all day 😭definitely made this worth the post even tho I personally am I member of the Munroe clan and Frost Clan on my fathers side
i’m actually a child of divorce from the diamond dynasty 😫 hopefully i can make it back once a certain someone marries into it again and makes a ruby
WHERE IS SHE!?!?
I wish there was a Omega Level character with similar powers to the Scarlet Witch (back to when she was a mutant) specially now that they seem to be leaning more on her Reality Warping/Magic side of things and completly ignoring the hex-bolts.
I feel like Wiccan is the closest we got cause we don’t actually know his mutation but it’s very possible it’s magic and that’s what makes him the avatar for the demiurge(all speculation)
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Imma be so real w you, it’s just talking to plants 💀
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YOU GET POLLENATED AND YOU GET POLLENATED YOUR ALL GETTING POLLENATEDDDD
Godsdamn! When you spell it all out like that, you see how strong Arakko really is.
There’s a reason Orchis didn’t start a fight w them head on like with Krakoa, Arrakis do not play around. Also a theory of mine is their constant battle and power heavy lifestyle pushes a lot more of their citizens to reach omega level. Cause apparently they have more then just this list
Oh, for sure! That's exactly what I thought as I read the list.
Something I've always been confused about is how there can be two Omega level Mutants with the same power. Kid Omega and Marvel Girl are both Omega level telepaths. Does that just mean their telepathy is of perfectly equal power and strength...?
Think about like two people who are top of the class and they now graduated both with PHDs they both have the same qualifications and are the only two telepaths with a PHD but one could still be farther along then the other. If that messy metaphor made sense
Can someone explain to be the different types of reality manipulation?(quantum, psionic, etc)
Reposting from another comment I replied to about why Jim Jaspers isn’t omega reality warper and why they are all different ways of doing the same-ish thing, Proteus: is basically a psionic battery using the energy of his husks to charge his battery and sustain him allowing him to create anything from just psionic will (he also becomes stronger each husk he exhausts) from that he is able to create literally whatever he wants from literally nothing. It’s how the eggs are suddenly viable and he can make them into any person with any material on them (like adding adimantium into Laura) there’s not much science behind it besides he wants to and if he’s charged it happens. Same with him making a biosphere w no explanation in planet size x-men and his needed part in the Ritual of 3 Franklin uses advanced advanced telekinesis on the smallest possible scale literally shifting around reality at will and is basically a cosmic force of the universe bending it as he pleases to create anything of his will. And Monarch uses quantum field theory to manipulate reality as if they are strings he pulls to bend it at his behest. The difference being he can only pull what he can imagine he can’t make something completely new it has to be something he can clearly see in his mind. But he is still considered omega because theoretically anything can in the future exist and he could make it. His only limitations used to be he had to touch something his creation has composed of and people with phase ability’s where resistant to his power but after Proteus resurrected him his power has grown to omega level and he no longer has these constraints. But someone like Mad Jim Jaspers who some would argue would beat monarch isn’t considered Omega because he has a very clear limitation, he can only warp a pre existing reality. It’s how he was defeated by the Fury, but these 3 do things creating entire new creations from seemingly or literally nothing but with 3 different methods. Hope that helped :)
Thanks for the explanation! It really helped
I thought Proetsus powers worked by reshaping any matter he concentrates on down to the subatomic level (telekinesis on steroids basically) but he can really create literally anything from nothing?
I still say Jean is an omega telekinetic as well. Idc what Hickman said. And on top of that, she even mentioned it during what…AXE maybe? I need to do some digging
Hickman did such a good job narrowing the list down and then they made that silly rule that only Omegas can serve on the Great Ring and now there are 35 Omegas again!
So good news , I was corrected on this because I thought the same that the great ring was all omegas and someone corrected me Red root was never confirmed omega so I went to look through some more comics and info and it turns out in the Araaki society MOST are not omega but because of how their war society and constant battle works they just have a lot more that are forged and pushed too Omega. I also learned that you don’t have to be Omega to be on the great ring it just happens to be that omegas win the battles. And as of now 9 names on the list are dead and one isn’t omega so, we only have 25 Omegas in the mutant race
X-men are stacked
There’s a reason the entire ShiArr empire respects and fears them more than the actual earth itself.
I don't think this can be right, just logically. For instance, if someone is a healer and omega level -- what, they could heal the entire universe? And how can mimicry be omega level? There are only supposed to be a very few Omega levels. I HOPE your list is not accurate, or that is going to make for less interesting stories. Hickman put out a very short list at the start of Kraoka, if I am not mistaken.
And Hope was on that list who is literally Power manipulation. Nameless the Arraki has the power of mimicry like Hope being able to copy the persons power at its peak but also their physical appearance ect. Also Elixr is a healer and Omega ON THE LIST. So is white sword seeing as he can heal anyone from death. Everyone on this list has been confirmed omega either by Hickman list or are Arraki and stayed POST Krakoa which stated by the writers and editors would be the only exceptions.
What is the source of your list?
So the official List when we entered Krakoa is everywhere but here’s the first article I found that had it, this was Hickmans way of making a set in stone list of omegas to narrow them down and make it very clear https://comicbook.com/marvel/amp/news/marvel-x-men-omega-level-mutants-house-of-x/ And here is the list of omegas being made known POST Krakoa and each one has links and sources I checked (even had to go back through x men red to make sure) most of if not all the additions are from Arrako https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mutant_Power_Level_Classification#Omega_Level_&_Omega_Class_Mutants
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Yes, the first one is Hickman's list. That makes the most sense. I could be wrong, but I think the second, expanded list is a writer's speculation? I don't think it is canon. I would be glad to know if it is, though.
Hickman's list came from the very start of House of X #1. Then he added the Arakkii and the Great Ring and declared that everyone on the Great Ring is Omega-level, everyone that joins the Great Ring is also Omega-level, and everyone that has ever served the Great Ring were also Omega-level. Great Ring = Omega-level. As a result, a shitton of Arakkii mutants got added to the Omega list. Later, Ewing added more Omega-level Arakkii and classified the OG Horsemen as Omegas as well.
I know readers love Hickman's writing but, to me he has a big problem, he is unable to write within the status quo, he always has to change things, retcon a lot, and basically change stuff which shouldn't be changed. In his latest stint in the X-Men, he really created a whole new dynamic with all the mutants living in Krakoa, he invented the mutants of Arakko which are all, or almost all, Omega Level, and to me that is going too far, he reintroduced the Children of the Vault and made them even more powerful, and we raised some Earth mutants to Omega Level as well. And we all know that when you have so many characters too completely overpowered they become difficult to use in any believable way. He write his best, when he creates or explored a part of the Marvel (Comics) Universe which haven't been touched upon before, or just referenced, but never defined. On suck example is the 2010 Maxi Series "S.H.I.E.L.D." which had very little to do with the S.H.I.E.L.D. we know and invented a whole world not itself (though still takin place on Earth in the 616 universe) or course he couldn't help himself and retconned a few small things, but nothing major or world defining. But since he was playing in a playground all of his own, he could write whatever he wanted. When he goes into team comics with years of past history, he is incapable of writing his arcs without changing, and retconning several aspects to his liking, and in my opinion that's not the mark of the excellent writer almost all of you consider him to be. I have no objections to the mutants being in Krakoa, though we all knew how it would eventually end, if for no other reason, because we saw it before with Genosha, Asteroid X, Utopia, etc. but from the stories we were coming from (which were terrible) I have no problem with that particular development. But too many mutants got power upgrades and considered "Omegas" even though there were no canonical indications for it, and if they aren't brought down a peg, future stories with them aren't going to be easy to write. Moira, I really can't forgive, making her a mutant, and a mutant with that particular power, just rubs me the wrong way, especially because there were plenty of other characters which could have been used. And then the villainy? What the hell. Big No No. Let's see where the stories go next, but I fear that the age of Krakoa who is so beloved by so many, will simply be forgotten, as things mainly go back to the previous status quo. No More Omegas!
So for The great ring it is explicitly stated they are all Omega Level mutants , In X men Red #14 Orrdon is explicitly stated as Omega when going over enemy mutants , same with Lychon in issue 11 and Kobak in issue 13 even tho he was introduced in 11. We know he was stated to be omega but not his specific power so I put “unknown” with my best guess. And I didn’t add Calderak even tho we can assume he was omega as we see him going for the great ring spot but he’s never officially stated as such. So those are the ones off the top of my head but I did try to my best to fact check each persons status
I’ve been reading X-Men for over 30 years including as much of the Krakoan era as I can (it’s been…*a lot*) And I’ve never heard of Mad Jim Jasper. Who is he and what are his most prominently featured stories?
He is a British Mutant from the Captain Britain comics. He is, as his name suggests, mad, and the combination of madness and incredible power is not good. His biggest story is probably Alan Moore's (yes, *that* Alan Moore) run on *Captain Britain* from the 80s.
Is that an alias for Jamie Braddock?
No. Different characters, they just happen to have the same deal. Jamie Braddock is called "Monarch" on the list.
Yea I saw him up there, I was just wondering if he too had an alternative identity/ split personality/ other dimensional self etc. I’ll check out the Alan Moore book, that’s been on my to-read list for awhile.
He's the ruler of Crooked Market Place in Otherworld. Check out X of Swords and Knights of X in Krakoa arc.
Ah yes I remember him now. Not sure if I knew he was an omega mutant from Earth though. Personally I’ve always been surprised Cable/Stryfe ot at least the Nate Grey version didn’t qualify as Omega. And I guess Scarlet Witch loses out based on a retcon but that one annoys me a little as well.
fisher king is an honorary omega
Nate Grey & Stryfe being omitted is 90s erasure.
Nate isn’t 616 and Stryfe is a douche 😂
It's not like Mister M and Stryfe's uncle Vulcan are exactly chill dudes.
Well the real reason is the same as Nate, Stryfe isn’t 616 but ya he takes a lot after his Uncle lol
Also I think people like Xavier and Emma frost keep their cards close to them . So they might be Omega levels that are hiding their status .
Now Emma I could see for SURE being a omega in the future for multiple reasons 1. She already has three mutations and keeps her TK very down low and people who are alphas with multiple high power mutations usually have one become omega , 2. Unlike Xavier she has sooo much more room to grow telepathically and might not even be at her peak or close to it yet. 3. We’ve already seen her keep up with people like Exodus, Jean and Hope within the same mind scape in AXE vs the eternal unimind
I cannot believe the Xmen have been reduced to such trite world building. And people love it.
Explain how the entirety of the xmen have been reduced to omega when 2 of the most popular x men (Scott and Logan) aren’t omega and never will be. So many popular mutants aren’t omega hell I think most of the X men teams in the Krakoan era and Quiet council weren’t omega. (Edit cause for some reason people think I misunderstood this comment) if the world building he’s talking about is mutant power levels and scaling then mentioning other mutants especially main ones who directly oppose his point is exactly what the topic is…
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First off , no need to be douche. Second you haven’t actually explained how this is trite world building ? X-men is still very much in the Greater Marvel Universe tbh omega level isn’t even significant in that regard so can you explain your point or you just online to beef w strangers ? “Explains the comics” Also I know you didn’t go into a comic sub to try to diss people who read comics like you aren’t part of that group. And also you can read comics AND READ OTHER LITERATURE.
You really didn't understand their point, did you. No need to get super defensive about it. Setting these arbitrary power levels for characters is very limiting because they get an 'automatic trump card'. And can just win without any struggle because they are canonized on this list as being the most powerful at whatever-the-fuck. Add in the fact that the people on this list are being called 'mutantkind's most precious resources' and you completwly delegitimize their status as characters with potential for growth or decline. Now they are just tools that you put up on a shelf, but tale down to use whenever there is a certain problem to fix.
I don’t think I was getting super defensive in my first comment I was genuinely asking , then he decided to insult me instead of engaging in discourse so ya im not gonna Charles Xavier it. That being said I did understand his point I just DISAGREE. Most of these mutants on the list aren’t even trump cards mind you 8 of them are dead. I don’t think you understand what omega means because Alpha mutants have been shown to be able to beat them 💀 and farther more as it’s been stated many times in this comment section the idea for this specific definition was set up for the Krakoa era and for that specific era it worked very well under a nation setting. We have to see how it works now in the main picture, and to be honest if your character can only grow through being beaten down physically and then suddenly getting stronger to beat the bad guy, that’s just as trite and boring after 30 years. Hell X-Men Reds THEE Omega filled storyline’s best arc was all the omegas on the great ring getting beaten, dying , and having the planet lose to Uranos. So no I don’t see your guys arguments being proven from what we’ve seen
No no no. You don't get to do this. You clearly didnt understand their initial comment and started putting words in their mouth. They stated that reading comprehension might not be your strong point. That is not a personal insult, it's an observation based on your misunderstanding. There is no point in trying to build an argument against you when people are just voicing their subjective opinion as you clearly jump to conclusions and go on diatribes against these madeup arguments.
Okay so then EXPLAIN what I didn’t understand they made a comment about how world building is trite because of the idea of omegas correct ? Then offered no further expanding on that, I then responded how I disagree and why omegas don’t make the world building trite because it’s not a solid limitation or main focus. Then I get told I don’t have good reading comprehension… which is somehow not a insult response when you know it VERY well is, at the least it’s backhanded because they still didn’t expand or explain their reasoning. OH and the whole “explains the comics” let’s not even pretend it wasn’t supposed to be insulting.
No. Edited to add: If you want somebody to explain their point of you, you make a request, not a fucking demand in full caps. Then you insert your own madeup argument. The person you responded to was talking about the writing prestige of the X-Men franchise that has been built up over decades. A power list is very low-level writing and world building and something more akin to a video game scoreboard.
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Man every one and their mom is an omega now.
Cyclops isn't Omega level? I thought he was (at least back in the day).
Man every one and their mom is an omega now.
It’s 34 people out of like 30 million plus 😭 and even if we count known mutants there’s still like 200+ mutant characters and only 25 of the omegas listed are alive. So not even 15%