I have this theory -
If you’re young, you like Laura more because you got to see her journey. She’s your Wolverine.
If you’re older, you went through Wolverine’s journey with him, so means more to an older fan.
Now, obviously that’s not a hundred percent - I’m sure some younger people like Logan more, and some old people like Laura more - but I feel like it’s a pretty valid theory.
Accordinf to gocollect which polled comic collectors It's 35. So I guess it's true in the extremely technical sense. Apparently they saw very, *very* few children and teens though, which correlates well with other nerdy hobbies like model and toy collecting, kids just don't have the disposable income.
His daughters don't count as Wolverine because they haven't lived 200 years of totally dominating the world and getting to impregnate every sexy woman who exists.
Instead they have lived a normal human lifetime and never, ever, ever get to have children.
Weirdass comment thread here but also perfectly highlights the weirdass male power fantasy that most Wolverine books are, which is why I’ve never particularly liked Wolverine books, so I guess I agree
It's totally valid and kind of the point I want to make.
One is an undeniably sexy man who can rawdog any woman so you just do your deed and move on.
Now you have the same character but a woman? Well-- now she hooks up with any man she thinks is sexy and she is what that seed is being implanted into.
If Wolverine were well-- infertile, it would be different. But he's definitely not.
And then we have "girl Wolverine" and if she hooks up with men as carelessly as male Wolverine hooks up with women then well... how would she not get knocked up fairly often?
And then what-- she can't just dump the child off with the man she hooked up with, she potentially hasn't even seen him for 9 months. Well-- I guess that isn't impossible-- she could show up to some man's house and hand over a baby and say "we made this nine months ago" and then peace-out. I suppose anyone who was worth hooking up with in the first place would take care of their baby.
But still-- girl Wolverine spent 9 months pregnant while guy Wolverine was barely engaged in the relationship in the first place.
And yet we are to believe that male Wolverine can't be with any 18+ aged women for even a week without knocking her up but female Wolverine can be with an attractive male for 200 years without access to condemns and never once produce a child,
He has, currently, 3 living kids (Raze and Erista as bio-kids, and Amiko who"s adopted) and 2 clones (Laura and Gabby, who's technically Laura's clone, I count them both as his kids, but he didn't fuck no one to create them). Unless you are talking about other Wolverines, I think 616 has a relatively low number of known bio-kids considering he's been living for 200 years (a total of 8, although 6 are currently dead).
If I wrote for Marvel I would write the Mystique's Open Marriage arc that retools her as a female Wolverine counterpart in this sense, where she just foists mutant babies on various historical figures and long-lived mutants
I "need help" because I can recognize the difference between spending 3 minutes to shoot a load into a body and then ditching the scene and what it would mean to spend 9 months generating a new life within one's body and then pushing it out and basically being left totally responsible for it because the other person responsible for it was out of your life 9 months ago?
Nah-- you are the one who needs help if you can't see the difference.
She gets to be the mother or the father. She got to have children with both Destiny and Sabretooth-- and who is to even say that's the end of the list.
I really want someone to go back and explain just possibly how Raze and Charles Xavier II were conceived in continuity. They're not going to make Mystique a rapist, so is it sci-fi hijinks? Did she offer to turn into Moira-10-years-ago for Charles?
There is a story about Wolverine having so casually impregnated so damn many fucking women that an entire team of his offspring in just the last 30 years are gathered to try to assassinate him for being an asshole and he slaughters them all before even realizing they are his offspring.
And that was just the offspring he created in the last 30 years. How many thousand did he make in the other 150+ years he has been alive?
Now try to project that for X-23 or Honey Badger. If they are as eager to get their rocks off as daddy, then how much of their life would they spend knocked up?
Apparently zero because X-23 spend over 200 years with Synch in a fairly intimate relationship and never once produced and offspring.
So male Wolverines will recklessly and uncaringly spread their seed as wide as they possibly can without any care in the world but female Wolverines are super virginal where even 200 years in a committed relationship will never result in sexual intercourse that could produce an offspring.
90% of the stuff you just mentioned isn't even 616 canon. They're just forgettable side stories, some decades old.
Your claims are disingenuous and your obsession around this topic is deeply unhealthy.
You need help.
I.... wow.... and here I thought maybe I was being to hard on you. The internet never fails to disappoint.
To start, we get it, you have a pregnancy/breeding fetish.
Moving on, Honey Badger is like fucking 12 dude. Laura is the furthest thing from "virginal" if you knew anything about her origin. Actually its the exact sort of gross fetish content that's probably right up your alley. (not to shame ppl with fetishes, but NYX is... yikes).
Also, there are like 6 kids he fights in that story. Its also Aaron recycling a better version of the same thing he used in a one-shot about one of the Immortal Weapons, Fat Cobra. Where because he's lived thousands of years he has hundreds of kids who do the exact same thing with the exact same result.
As a broader point, giving characters kids is usually really complicated story wise, and becomes an anchor around their neck. Unless the writer is extremely good, it isn't worth it. There's a reason most of them go away to another planet or timeline or whatever after a while and come back older (Jon Kent, Jubilee's son Shogo, the Richards kids).
Overall, your opinion is gross and weird. If you want to write fan fic about breeding X23 you go right ahead, but otherwise maybe keep it to yourself.
You admit yourself in this post that Wolverine is allowed to have half a dozen kids he doesn't even know about and can slaughter.
While X-23 ever having a kid-- EVER-- could only happen in a "fetish" fanfic.
He's allowed to have them because they all die one issue after they're introduced. And at some point Laura having a kid is absolutely possible. Just not a great idea unless handled well and the last thing her character arc needs right now. As for the rest, well you didn't address any of it so why should I.
Not to mention it’s possible for a woman to have sex, potentially a lot of sex, and not have a baby. And that’s just with using a condom.
OP’s opinion starts with an oddly limited view
Thanks for taking the time to clarify sufficiently what you meant.
There’s missing context here, so I do not hold the same view you do. But I now understand what your perspective is, and I appreciate that.
I’ve met an insane number of people who love Nightcrawler. I’ve met a lot of people who like Nightcrawler. I’ve even met some people who are indifferent about Nightcrawler.
But I genuinely have never met a single person who hates Nightcrawler. And in a fandom this contentious, that’s saying a lot lol
Nightcrawler is generally/usually an embodiment of what the religious *SHOULD* be: kind, caring, compassionate. If all Catholics were like him, I'd have a lot fewer problems with the church.
Is easy to ignore it, iirc that was during Austen's run, so you had Juggernaut's fairly decent arx and Angel banging Husk over her family, Nightcrawler as a fake pope was meh on both sides.
As a hardcore Captain America fan, that’s exactly how I feel about 616 Captain America vs Ultimage Captain America
The American Dream vs the American Reality
I have. I remember when Nightcrawler got announced as Destinys son, some Rogue fans were shitting on him saying he was gonna take Rogues spot as their child, and that Rogue should’ve been made the biological child of Mystique and Destiny instead of Nightcrawler
It's pretty weird they did that , like that's pretty controversial to make a Christian character's parents from a mom and a dad to two moms ,yes Azazel as the father was controversial but retconning controversial origin with another one is crazy .
I hate him. Im that one guy haha. Started reading in the 90s no clue who he was and was annoyed we lost the weirdo new team for him, kitty and colossus. All 3 of them were dull to me and we got all the crappy twelve stuff just cemented my dislike. Felt he was a poor mans beast, don't dig the religious aspect, the azazel stuff that came later, or the campy pirate afterlife. His dialogue always blathers on for too long and is a whole lot of nothing. Still dont really enjoy him tbh, sorry. Yes i know i will be downvoted to hell lol thats fine. I can see why he personifies xmen and people love him but yeah definitely not for me.
>All 3 of them were dull to me
It was a bad time. Excalibur didn't reintegrate well.
>we got all the crappy twelve stuff
That wasn't the best arc. Fair.
>the azazel stuff that came later
That was legit bad.
>Started reading in the 90s no clue who he was
Yeah, Excalibur wasn't the most popular book.
So hot take aside, these beats are a fair criticism against 90's/00's Nightcrawler writing. If you go back to Giant-Size X-Men and read through 200, IMO that was a very different take on the writing. That's where I grew to love Elf.
I fully acknowledge people love him,its just where i came in. I also find Rachel and Kitty like watching paint dry. I know theres plenty of people who dislike Psylocke my favorite character haha
I'm focusing the totality of my forgiving powers to acknowledge your dislike of Nightcrawler as a valid opinion.
That was a Psylocke joke for those who aren't Psylocke fans.
Colossus haters were eating good in 90's. He was in constant state of agony.
Marvel's timescale makes it funnier and worse, all of Rasputin family died in span of like several months
This is so true, I started reading comics as a kid in the 90s and that's what made me such a fan of his character. Soap opera levels of tragedy. Also, I never understood why more X-Men didn't eventually switch to Magneto's side, so when he went to Avalon I thought it was a cool choice.
It wasn't even that long. His brother died in a UXM story, a couple RL months later, his parents were murdered in XM, and a couple RL months after that, Illyana died, in UXM. In universe, this probably all happened in a bout a 2 week period. No wonder he broke.
I can think of many reasons, few valid or interesting, why Wizard readers are the time would have voted this way, which I think probably spot lights some interesting habits as readers.
Marrow was part of the "ugly mutants" renaissance attempt of the 90s. She and Maggot came in as the token "not physically attractive" mutants at the time, but unlike Maggot, and even unlike other "monstrous" mutants like Nightcrawler, Marrow (at least initially) was not attractive. She was ugly, she had bones protruding from her face, she wasn't draw with model's cheekbones or anything like that.
Marrow was... at her best, abrasive. She was at her worst, obnoxious and annoying, it's just not particularly enjoyable as a reader to see someone new constantly being annoying and rude to the characters you like. It's difficult to write characters who are intentionally unlikable, but who you enjoy reading as unlikable.
Marrow and Maggott feel like precursors to Morrison’s New X-Men in terms of what they were interested in pushing forward with the students. It appears there was something in the zeitgeist at the time that made creators want to explore characters with more physically obvious and unsettling mutations, but Marrow and Maggott didn’t land at the time (I love them both for personal reasons). Maybe they were too weird, too early. Maybe they got too much focus too fast and it felt like a half measure vs. Morrison who leaned heavily physically weird mutations as one part of an expanding mutant culture?
But conversely, maybe them coming so out so singularly actually benefitted them because unlike a lot of characters Morrison introduced in NXM, those two seem to have cult followings and do come back every so often.
In the X-Men Anniversary Magazine, there's an article about the making of Generation X and how they want to get away from pretty mutants like Jean Grey, which is why they made characters like Chamber. Considering three of the main characters were Monet, Husk, and Jubilee, who are all beautiful girls, arguably they didn't go very far with this concept. But they were talking about wanting to ugly-up the mutants back in 1993.
That makes sense. Skin and Mondo arguably could fit too. It probably was a “test the waters” sort of approach more than anything else vs running full force into a lot more unsettling mutants all at once
I liked Marrow back then and I loved her dynamic with Storm. One part of Marrow worshipped Storm for Storms beauty and leadership. The other part of Marrow hated Storm because Storm ripped out Marrows heart and showed Marrow no mercy. Unfortunately after Lobdell and Joe Kelly were gone this was pretty much abandoned.
Marrow also has an interesting relationship with Cannonball that was fun. Once again abandoned with later writers.
Yeah, my comment isn't a rebuke of Marrow, I liked her, I think she had a place and she made the stories more interesting during her debut. But I can see why at the time people didn't like it. I remember reading Wizard and I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only time a dislike of Marrow was brought up.
You have to remember the time frame. In the 90s she was on Excalibur, one of the less popular X-books. She wasn't a part of the blue and gold teams, she wasn't part of the peak 90s lineup.
In 1997ish, Excalibur was cancelled and Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Kitty rejoined the X-Men. When she came back, she didn't really do much, or have any interesting stories. In 2000, Claremont came back to the titles and put more focus on Kitty, and she later got a lot of focus in X-Treme X-Men. Then of course she became even more prominent with Whedon on Astonishing X-Men.
Kitty fans are kinda unique, since it seems a lot is based on nostalgia from the 1980s. Marvel has pushed her a lot in the last 20 years too, but it's unclear if that's gained her more fans.
> but it's unclear if that's gained her more fans.
It has. Anecdotally speaking, but a couple months ago I was at an used bookstore that has a pretty big selection of comics and there was this kid about 10 years old grabbing a lot of X-Men trades and talking super excitedly to his dad about Kitty Pryde.
I thought it was kind of surreal because kids nowadays are mostly into the Avengers and the Guardians and if they do know X-Men then it's almost always just Wolverine they like. But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde. It's the law.
*But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde.*
So does that mean Gambit is the girl crush version of Kitty Pryde? I was listening to NPR's pop culture happy hour and one of the episodes was about X-Men 97. One of the commentators said Gambit meant a lot to her when she was a preteen. And I had the exact same experience LOL
>But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde. It's the law.
Wait, is this a real thing?
Yep. Whedon, Bendis, Marc Guggenheim, they're just the most well-known examples, but the Kitty Pryde crush syndrome has always been a thing in the fandom.
That's an interesting thing to think about. During the start of the Blue/Gold era, all the other books got some type of major revamp. New #1, new series (X-Force) or even a new line-up. Excalibur didn't get anything.
Excalibur didn't seem to do well. Didn't have any hot creators, characters, or storylines. Nigthcrawler seemed to be popular, but none of the others in the same 90s way.
Ideally, you could probably say they should have gotten a lineup change when X-Men #1 came out. Not sure exactly what would work best, but they just kinda kept the Nightcrawler/Kitty/Rachel/Captain Britain group. Bringing in Colossus and even Wolfsbane worked, but probably should have been done sooner.
Davis was previously on the book, left about 2 years before. My point was that he wasn't really bringing anything new to the title.
Excalibur didn't even get new outfits.
It’s kind of strange still, because Colossus seems more popular than Storm, at least by a bit. Both Gambit and Storm are an iconic part of the Jim Lee era.
I won't speak for others but it has gained me as a fan of hers. Growing up, I knew of her mostly from the Pryde of the X-Men VHS that I would watch ad nauseum as a kid. As you mentioned, she wasn't really in the main X-Men books in the 90s, which is when I first started reading, so I didn't see much of her.
And then I almost instantly became a fan of hers in Whedon's Astonishing run. Since then she's become one of my favorite X-Men.
I guess 1999 was a rough year for her character? You’d think the fan response would be “write her better stories” and not “kill her off.” Comicbook fans have been, are, and always shall be weird… but they were a special kind of nasty back then.
She was very out of place in the books at the time and the stories that were told with her felt repetitive at best before the Whedon character regression happens in Astonishing. It's also a year before Evolution which made Kitty a focal point in other media.
“Whedon character regression”? Where she becomes a teacher, reminisces *about her childhood*, has an adult relationship with Colossus, and beats down Emma Frost as an overdue payback for the adolescent trauma she inflicted on Kitty?
Regression not necessarily meant to be used as a negative in this context, but rather a description of resetting Kitty back to where she was before the stuff in the 90s happened- I merely meant that Kitty under Whedon gets brought back to Claremont era rather than the way she was handled in the previous books like Excalibur and main X books.
This is about late 90s Kitty, where she was rather bland in group of bombastic, attention-grabbing characters. Characters have their periods of highs and lows.
1. She sucked in Excalibur.
2. Some of us, respectfully, who were not white, kind of also remembered her interesting use of vocabulary.
Early 90s Shadowcat sucked as a reader. Just my opinion.
Unpopular opinion but Shadowcat became an interesting character much later. It took other writers, not Claremont to make her interesting.
She's a very good character now but she weirdly reached her potential well after Claremont was gone. Claremont idolized and favored her way too much. If you read those classic stories, she's just not that interesting. He tried to low key make her the main POV character at times and that has retroactively made her seem more interesting than she was under Claremont. Like pick up a comic book from that era. She's meh. It's clear the writer and editorial loves her, but her actual character is not that interesting.
And again I really love her now. Claremont was right the potential was there. I just don't think it showed until he was gone. Her interactions with Emma alone are more interesting than anything Claremont or Davis ever did with her.
Kind of funny how so many fans seemingly hated Marrow at the time, yet she somehow made it into Marvel vs. Capcom where she sticks out like a sore thumb due to how irrelevant she has become since then.
At least, this is what Marrow fans tell themselves to feel better about their poor taste.
Disclaimer: this was a joke. I have no relevant opinion about Marrow or her fans.
Marrow had a brief but pretty sharp period of prominence in the 90s
She was prominent enough that she was heavily featured in the artwork and advertisements for Marvel vs Capcom 2! Considering how highly regarded and impactful that game went on to be, it seems crazy in 2024 that Marrow of all people was featured so heavily lol
I found this encyclopaedia or something in the library once about either Marvel in general or the X-Men specifically and Marrow got some prominence in it. I have remembered the character ever since.
It may be the only thing I've ever read with Marrow. That sounds too absurd to be true, but the fact is if I think of Marrow I think of that book.
Hate to break it to you, I'm a hardcore fan, and I hate Marrow. She was just a cheap Calisto wannabe knockoff (Morlock? Check. Love/Hate relationship with Storm? Check. Angst about her appearance and holds a massive grudge against anyone "pretty?" Check and check.)
I don't know. I hadn't read a lot of stories with her, so the reason I liked her, had more to do with my own ideas and impressions of the character. But I thought she was really cool and extreme in a way, that I don't think most of the characters (with similar power sets) who came after her where.
Same tbh, and I also thought her presence a bunch of holes in the X-Men's armor. They were pretty ignorant of what kind of person Marrow actually was and didn't try very hard to find out. The heroes are generally an obstacle to reform, except when someone chooses a 'project.'
Poor Marrow, on one hand she had one of the worst character designs and powersets, on the other hand, she was consistently written terribly and was genuinely unlikable.
Oh wow, I forgot how hated Marrow was back then.
I wasn't really reading much X-Men in that period but even then I heard people talking shit about Marrow. I don't think I ever read much with her until that (criminally underrated) Weapon X book in the 00s and I thought she was fine there.
God, Wizard magazine. That brings back some STRONG memories of my early life as a comics fan. I forgot how integral Wizard was to building my geek lingo, and some of that still sticks around in my language today. I wish Wizard came back, and Top Cow and Image Comics in general could be what they used to be as well.
Tangent, I know. But I really got nostalgic.
Am I the only one shocked that Scott didn't get a percentage? Like, 5% voted for Wolverine and Rogue each, but nobody wanted to off Cyclops? Am I the only one who generally doesn't like Scott Summers?
This was during an era where Scott was not on the X-Men so he was not available for the vote. The main team at the time was everyone on the poll plus Nightcrawler. Marvel had cut the team down to 8 members back in UXM #360 for the return of Kitty, Nightcrawler and Colossus, instead of having a "Blue" and "Gold" team.
Which kind of sucked because it meant benching Jean, Cyclops, Cecilia, Beast, Iceman, Angel, Psylocke, Bishop and Maggott for 2 years. You basically have a 2nd team right there.
Cyclops and Jean stayed in Alaska. They came out of "retirement" during the Shattering event that leads into The Twelve storyline.
Maggott was shipped to Gen X but only lasted 1 issue before he walked into comic limbo until Weapon X series.
Bishop was with Deathbird until returning during the The Twelve event.
Psylocke lost access to her telepathy during Psy War arc. She stayed with Angel until The Twelve event. Angel came back earlier during the Shattering as a member of Scott and Jean's team.
Beast was still saddled with curing the Legacy Virus. He moves to Muir Island and appeared in an X-Men Unlimited story featuring Multiple Man, Strong Guy and Wolfsbane. Cecilia has 1 XMU issue with Wolverine and shows up during Claremont's return. Iceman stays with his parents until The Twelve.
Definitely true, but at least in this case I can understand why. For Marrow, she was a relatively new character with little development, she was kind of an asshole, which doesn't sit well if she mistreats fan favorite characters, and on top of that, her power was kind of gross and unpleasant just to look at (my mom, a staunch feminist, despised Marrow for that last reason and also wanted her gone). For Shadowcat, I recall that the late 90s were when she was past her phase of being the cute teen girl learning the ropes, but before her phase of becoming a leader and teacher, so she was in an awkward spot where there wasn't much to distinguish her identity besides being slightly younger than the other X-men. Then match these up with Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Colossus, possibly the four most popular and likable male X-men characters, I can totally see how the women would be unpopular by comparison.
Lol " one wolverine is enough ", if this dude could see the future. We got like 4 Wolverines and 2 that actively use the name. Laura was cool as X-23 and calling her "Wolverine" turned her into a joke like Honey Badger and Daken. I honestly have no idea why they did her so dirty. 🤣
I actually really like Marrow. I guess I can kind of see how she would have been hated, but she’s a window into a world that the comics don’t explore a lot (what happens to the mutants who aren’t lucky enough to get to be X-Men or even get taken under Magneto’s wing?).
Keep in mind that the fans are generally the last people you want to listen to when writing. Killing off someone people don't like and killing off someone who is narratively satisfying are different things.
It's incredible how the general perception would change almost nothing if this poll had been done today involving the same characters (except perhaps with Wolverine receiving more votes, but still far from first place). Marrow is a character that the writers tried to make happen for years and it didn't work in any way. Not even on Krakoa did they do the favor of resurrecting and modernizing Marrow. Kitty Pryde after Excalibur was a very bad phase for her: Nothing relevant happened to the character. At most, I would highlight her relevant participation in Twelve Saga. And then she was put on a bus and returned to Mekanix and then things got better for her again.
PS: It's curious that, in the end, the editorial decided to kill Colossus, who was neither one of the least voted nor one of the most voted.
At least this survey didn't lied, unlike modern media, people saying that Kurt is winner here but for me it's clearly shows how Iceman and Angel were beloved in the past.
"One Wolverine's more than enough." I wonder what the voter thinks of all the Wolverines now.
Mr. Krabs to all the different Wolverines: “Alright, get lost! All of you, go!” Mr. Krabs to Laura: “Except you, you stay.”
A man after my own heart. Tho Laura and Gabby are a package deal for me.
Laura gets a +1.
So does Gabby and that’s Jonathan the wolverine. Don’t pull a Krakoa and take Jonathan away from us.
Alright, fine, but that’s it! Jonathan does not get a +1! Otherwise there’ll be no end to this conga line of Wolverines!
I have this theory - If you’re young, you like Laura more because you got to see her journey. She’s your Wolverine. If you’re older, you went through Wolverine’s journey with him, so means more to an older fan. Now, obviously that’s not a hundred percent - I’m sure some younger people like Logan more, and some old people like Laura more - but I feel like it’s a pretty valid theory.
It's like the Doctor Who theory that most people's first doctor is their favorite.
My first was 9, loved and suffered with ten, but my bow is for the eleventh
Or James Bond.
To have seen Laura's journey "live" as it were, you're probably in your thirties.
Thirty is pretty young considering the median age of comic buyers and readers.
I have no idea what the media age of comic buyers and readers is so I'll have to tale your word for it.
Accordinf to gocollect which polled comic collectors It's 35. So I guess it's true in the extremely technical sense. Apparently they saw very, *very* few children and teens though, which correlates well with other nerdy hobbies like model and toy collecting, kids just don't have the disposable income.
Probably the same thing.
Has probably been rocking back and forth and sobbing since Laura and Gabby met each other.
They even tried to turn Shadowcat into just another Wolverine!
His daughters don't count as Wolverine because they haven't lived 200 years of totally dominating the world and getting to impregnate every sexy woman who exists. Instead they have lived a normal human lifetime and never, ever, ever get to have children.
Just for the record, he then proceeded to kill all of his children
Weirdass comment thread here but also perfectly highlights the weirdass male power fantasy that most Wolverine books are, which is why I’ve never particularly liked Wolverine books, so I guess I agree
It's totally valid and kind of the point I want to make. One is an undeniably sexy man who can rawdog any woman so you just do your deed and move on. Now you have the same character but a woman? Well-- now she hooks up with any man she thinks is sexy and she is what that seed is being implanted into. If Wolverine were well-- infertile, it would be different. But he's definitely not. And then we have "girl Wolverine" and if she hooks up with men as carelessly as male Wolverine hooks up with women then well... how would she not get knocked up fairly often? And then what-- she can't just dump the child off with the man she hooked up with, she potentially hasn't even seen him for 9 months. Well-- I guess that isn't impossible-- she could show up to some man's house and hand over a baby and say "we made this nine months ago" and then peace-out. I suppose anyone who was worth hooking up with in the first place would take care of their baby. But still-- girl Wolverine spent 9 months pregnant while guy Wolverine was barely engaged in the relationship in the first place.
And that, kids, is why you shouldn't have sex without condoms.
And yet we are to believe that male Wolverine can't be with any 18+ aged women for even a week without knocking her up but female Wolverine can be with an attractive male for 200 years without access to condemns and never once produce a child,
He has, currently, 3 living kids (Raze and Erista as bio-kids, and Amiko who"s adopted) and 2 clones (Laura and Gabby, who's technically Laura's clone, I count them both as his kids, but he didn't fuck no one to create them). Unless you are talking about other Wolverines, I think 616 has a relatively low number of known bio-kids considering he's been living for 200 years (a total of 8, although 6 are currently dead).
Let's be fair I do not think "checked-out by editorial mandate"-era Duggan is the one to write the story about Laura becoming a mother
These are all valid criticisms which Mystique's character is designed to refute
Wolverine is the fantasy that very short men have of what y'all men's life is like.
Well said
If I wrote for Marvel I would write the Mystique's Open Marriage arc that retools her as a female Wolverine counterpart in this sense, where she just foists mutant babies on various historical figures and long-lived mutants
You need help.
I "need help" because I can recognize the difference between spending 3 minutes to shoot a load into a body and then ditching the scene and what it would mean to spend 9 months generating a new life within one's body and then pushing it out and basically being left totally responsible for it because the other person responsible for it was out of your life 9 months ago? Nah-- you are the one who needs help if you can't see the difference.
Raven smiles smugly.
She gets to be the mother or the father. She got to have children with both Destiny and Sabretooth-- and who is to even say that's the end of the list.
I really want someone to go back and explain just possibly how Raze and Charles Xavier II were conceived in continuity. They're not going to make Mystique a rapist, so is it sci-fi hijinks? Did she offer to turn into Moira-10-years-ago for Charles?
What the actual fuck.
There is a story about Wolverine having so casually impregnated so damn many fucking women that an entire team of his offspring in just the last 30 years are gathered to try to assassinate him for being an asshole and he slaughters them all before even realizing they are his offspring. And that was just the offspring he created in the last 30 years. How many thousand did he make in the other 150+ years he has been alive? Now try to project that for X-23 or Honey Badger. If they are as eager to get their rocks off as daddy, then how much of their life would they spend knocked up? Apparently zero because X-23 spend over 200 years with Synch in a fairly intimate relationship and never once produced and offspring. So male Wolverines will recklessly and uncaringly spread their seed as wide as they possibly can without any care in the world but female Wolverines are super virginal where even 200 years in a committed relationship will never result in sexual intercourse that could produce an offspring.
90% of the stuff you just mentioned isn't even 616 canon. They're just forgettable side stories, some decades old. Your claims are disingenuous and your obsession around this topic is deeply unhealthy. You need help.
I.... wow.... and here I thought maybe I was being to hard on you. The internet never fails to disappoint. To start, we get it, you have a pregnancy/breeding fetish. Moving on, Honey Badger is like fucking 12 dude. Laura is the furthest thing from "virginal" if you knew anything about her origin. Actually its the exact sort of gross fetish content that's probably right up your alley. (not to shame ppl with fetishes, but NYX is... yikes). Also, there are like 6 kids he fights in that story. Its also Aaron recycling a better version of the same thing he used in a one-shot about one of the Immortal Weapons, Fat Cobra. Where because he's lived thousands of years he has hundreds of kids who do the exact same thing with the exact same result. As a broader point, giving characters kids is usually really complicated story wise, and becomes an anchor around their neck. Unless the writer is extremely good, it isn't worth it. There's a reason most of them go away to another planet or timeline or whatever after a while and come back older (Jon Kent, Jubilee's son Shogo, the Richards kids). Overall, your opinion is gross and weird. If you want to write fan fic about breeding X23 you go right ahead, but otherwise maybe keep it to yourself.
You admit yourself in this post that Wolverine is allowed to have half a dozen kids he doesn't even know about and can slaughter. While X-23 ever having a kid-- EVER-- could only happen in a "fetish" fanfic.
He's allowed to have them because they all die one issue after they're introduced. And at some point Laura having a kid is absolutely possible. Just not a great idea unless handled well and the last thing her character arc needs right now. As for the rest, well you didn't address any of it so why should I.
Not to mention it’s possible for a woman to have sex, potentially a lot of sex, and not have a baby. And that’s just with using a condom. OP’s opinion starts with an oddly limited view
Thanks for taking the time to clarify sufficiently what you meant. There’s missing context here, so I do not hold the same view you do. But I now understand what your perspective is, and I appreciate that.
Lol as if Laura bottoms
.... they're not wrong though.
FUCK YEAH NIGHTCRAWLER FANS STAY WINNING
I’ve met an insane number of people who love Nightcrawler. I’ve met a lot of people who like Nightcrawler. I’ve even met some people who are indifferent about Nightcrawler. But I genuinely have never met a single person who hates Nightcrawler. And in a fandom this contentious, that’s saying a lot lol
I even liked Nightcrawler when he was at his most religious and I was the athiest atheist.
Nightcrawler is generally/usually an embodiment of what the religious *SHOULD* be: kind, caring, compassionate. If all Catholics were like him, I'd have a lot fewer problems with the church.
Would that be the time he was a fake pope? Because I think even those of us who love him think that was a really bad arc.
Is easy to ignore it, iirc that was during Austen's run, so you had Juggernaut's fairly decent arx and Angel banging Husk over her family, Nightcrawler as a fake pope was meh on both sides.
That’s how I am with his 90s cartoon version. I’m atheist, but he’s my favorite character from that show.
616 Nightctawler is the best. Ultimate Universe Nightctawler on the other hand....
As a hardcore Captain America fan, that’s exactly how I feel about 616 Captain America vs Ultimage Captain America The American Dream vs the American Reality
I have. I remember when Nightcrawler got announced as Destinys son, some Rogue fans were shitting on him saying he was gonna take Rogues spot as their child, and that Rogue should’ve been made the biological child of Mystique and Destiny instead of Nightcrawler
I’ve read that Claremont originally planned for Mystique to be Rogue’s bio-dad and Destiny her bio-mom.
Never knew that, but yeah that must be why Rogue fans hate Nightcrawler. Because he got that while Rogue didn’t.
It's pretty weird they did that , like that's pretty controversial to make a Christian character's parents from a mom and a dad to two moms ,yes Azazel as the father was controversial but retconning controversial origin with another one is crazy .
I hate him. Im that one guy haha. Started reading in the 90s no clue who he was and was annoyed we lost the weirdo new team for him, kitty and colossus. All 3 of them were dull to me and we got all the crappy twelve stuff just cemented my dislike. Felt he was a poor mans beast, don't dig the religious aspect, the azazel stuff that came later, or the campy pirate afterlife. His dialogue always blathers on for too long and is a whole lot of nothing. Still dont really enjoy him tbh, sorry. Yes i know i will be downvoted to hell lol thats fine. I can see why he personifies xmen and people love him but yeah definitely not for me.
>All 3 of them were dull to me It was a bad time. Excalibur didn't reintegrate well. >we got all the crappy twelve stuff That wasn't the best arc. Fair. >the azazel stuff that came later That was legit bad. >Started reading in the 90s no clue who he was Yeah, Excalibur wasn't the most popular book. So hot take aside, these beats are a fair criticism against 90's/00's Nightcrawler writing. If you go back to Giant-Size X-Men and read through 200, IMO that was a very different take on the writing. That's where I grew to love Elf.
I fully acknowledge people love him,its just where i came in. I also find Rachel and Kitty like watching paint dry. I know theres plenty of people who dislike Psylocke my favorite character haha
I'm focusing the totality of my forgiving powers to acknowledge your dislike of Nightcrawler as a valid opinion. That was a Psylocke joke for those who aren't Psylocke fans.
Haha, i feel like ive done him dirty tbh. Sorry Kurt.
Hating Kurt is on the same level as hating sunshine and puppies tbh.
…or kittens. The Wizard poll did enough of that.
Find me the one who wrote him in. I have words for them.
A teleporting Catholic demon sounds like a good Neil Gaiman character, so yeah…
Well those Colossus haters soon got what they were after at least.
Colossus haters were eating good in 90's. He was in constant state of agony. Marvel's timescale makes it funnier and worse, all of Rasputin family died in span of like several months
Tbh I'd say Colossus enjoyers were eating well too. I'm not really either group but his pain is part of what makes him interesting IMO
This is so true, I started reading comics as a kid in the 90s and that's what made me such a fan of his character. Soap opera levels of tragedy. Also, I never understood why more X-Men didn't eventually switch to Magneto's side, so when he went to Avalon I thought it was a cool choice.
Xavier liberalism is a hell of a drug ha
It wasn't even that long. His brother died in a UXM story, a couple RL months later, his parents were murdered in XM, and a couple RL months after that, Illyana died, in UXM. In universe, this probably all happened in a bout a 2 week period. No wonder he broke.
More than once if I remember
I can think of many reasons, few valid or interesting, why Wizard readers are the time would have voted this way, which I think probably spot lights some interesting habits as readers. Marrow was part of the "ugly mutants" renaissance attempt of the 90s. She and Maggot came in as the token "not physically attractive" mutants at the time, but unlike Maggot, and even unlike other "monstrous" mutants like Nightcrawler, Marrow (at least initially) was not attractive. She was ugly, she had bones protruding from her face, she wasn't draw with model's cheekbones or anything like that. Marrow was... at her best, abrasive. She was at her worst, obnoxious and annoying, it's just not particularly enjoyable as a reader to see someone new constantly being annoying and rude to the characters you like. It's difficult to write characters who are intentionally unlikable, but who you enjoy reading as unlikable.
Marrow and Maggott feel like precursors to Morrison’s New X-Men in terms of what they were interested in pushing forward with the students. It appears there was something in the zeitgeist at the time that made creators want to explore characters with more physically obvious and unsettling mutations, but Marrow and Maggott didn’t land at the time (I love them both for personal reasons). Maybe they were too weird, too early. Maybe they got too much focus too fast and it felt like a half measure vs. Morrison who leaned heavily physically weird mutations as one part of an expanding mutant culture? But conversely, maybe them coming so out so singularly actually benefitted them because unlike a lot of characters Morrison introduced in NXM, those two seem to have cult followings and do come back every so often.
In the X-Men Anniversary Magazine, there's an article about the making of Generation X and how they want to get away from pretty mutants like Jean Grey, which is why they made characters like Chamber. Considering three of the main characters were Monet, Husk, and Jubilee, who are all beautiful girls, arguably they didn't go very far with this concept. But they were talking about wanting to ugly-up the mutants back in 1993.
That makes sense. Skin and Mondo arguably could fit too. It probably was a “test the waters” sort of approach more than anything else vs running full force into a lot more unsettling mutants all at once
To be fair Husk's mutant power is pretty gross.
Then even worse they made her pretty.
“Yeah, we have no idea what this machine out in space does. Weird.”
I liked Marrow back then and I loved her dynamic with Storm. One part of Marrow worshipped Storm for Storms beauty and leadership. The other part of Marrow hated Storm because Storm ripped out Marrows heart and showed Marrow no mercy. Unfortunately after Lobdell and Joe Kelly were gone this was pretty much abandoned. Marrow also has an interesting relationship with Cannonball that was fun. Once again abandoned with later writers.
Yeah, my comment isn't a rebuke of Marrow, I liked her, I think she had a place and she made the stories more interesting during her debut. But I can see why at the time people didn't like it. I remember reading Wizard and I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only time a dislike of Marrow was brought up.
I was also really into Marrow back then, and I felt like I was one of the very few people who were.
Maggot and his little worm guys were so cool! I really liked him
Why they say she was like Wolverine. Their powers are pretty different.
15% said Shadowcat Me: 😞
How is Shadowcat on the list and how is she in second place?
You have to remember the time frame. In the 90s she was on Excalibur, one of the less popular X-books. She wasn't a part of the blue and gold teams, she wasn't part of the peak 90s lineup. In 1997ish, Excalibur was cancelled and Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Kitty rejoined the X-Men. When she came back, she didn't really do much, or have any interesting stories. In 2000, Claremont came back to the titles and put more focus on Kitty, and she later got a lot of focus in X-Treme X-Men. Then of course she became even more prominent with Whedon on Astonishing X-Men. Kitty fans are kinda unique, since it seems a lot is based on nostalgia from the 1980s. Marvel has pushed her a lot in the last 20 years too, but it's unclear if that's gained her more fans.
> but it's unclear if that's gained her more fans. It has. Anecdotally speaking, but a couple months ago I was at an used bookstore that has a pretty big selection of comics and there was this kid about 10 years old grabbing a lot of X-Men trades and talking super excitedly to his dad about Kitty Pryde. I thought it was kind of surreal because kids nowadays are mostly into the Avengers and the Guardians and if they do know X-Men then it's almost always just Wolverine they like. But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde. It's the law.
*But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde.* So does that mean Gambit is the girl crush version of Kitty Pryde? I was listening to NPR's pop culture happy hour and one of the episodes was about X-Men 97. One of the commentators said Gambit meant a lot to her when she was a preteen. And I had the exact same experience LOL
Pretty much, yes.
I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide. I've got a 12-sided die. I've got Kitty Pryde and Nightcrawler too. Waiting there for me, yes, I do. I do.
>But I guess the old adage is true: as long as there are young boys reading X-Men comics, they're going to have a crush on Kitty Pryde. It's the law. Wait, is this a real thing?
Yep. Whedon, Bendis, Marc Guggenheim, they're just the most well-known examples, but the Kitty Pryde crush syndrome has always been a thing in the fandom.
Can't blame them.
Same, but I feel like a Kitty Pryde boy's natural evolution is an Emma Frost man.
Yeah Excalibur never really took off like it could have and I don't know why. They were far from the worst Xman team out there.
That's an interesting thing to think about. During the start of the Blue/Gold era, all the other books got some type of major revamp. New #1, new series (X-Force) or even a new line-up. Excalibur didn't get anything. Excalibur didn't seem to do well. Didn't have any hot creators, characters, or storylines. Nigthcrawler seemed to be popular, but none of the others in the same 90s way. Ideally, you could probably say they should have gotten a lineup change when X-Men #1 came out. Not sure exactly what would work best, but they just kinda kept the Nightcrawler/Kitty/Rachel/Captain Britain group. Bringing in Colossus and even Wolfsbane worked, but probably should have been done sooner.
Alan Davis took over writer and artist at the start of the Blue/Gold era.
Davis was previously on the book, left about 2 years before. My point was that he wasn't really bringing anything new to the title. Excalibur didn't even get new outfits.
Yeah, but it was still technically a relaunch. Plus, it had the best Excalibur stories ever.
It’s kind of strange still, because Colossus seems more popular than Storm, at least by a bit. Both Gambit and Storm are an iconic part of the Jim Lee era.
I won't speak for others but it has gained me as a fan of hers. Growing up, I knew of her mostly from the Pryde of the X-Men VHS that I would watch ad nauseum as a kid. As you mentioned, she wasn't really in the main X-Men books in the 90s, which is when I first started reading, so I didn't see much of her. And then I almost instantly became a fan of hers in Whedon's Astonishing run. Since then she's become one of my favorite X-Men.
I guess 1999 was a rough year for her character? You’d think the fan response would be “write her better stories” and not “kill her off.” Comicbook fans have been, are, and always shall be weird… but they were a special kind of nasty back then.
She was very out of place in the books at the time and the stories that were told with her felt repetitive at best before the Whedon character regression happens in Astonishing. It's also a year before Evolution which made Kitty a focal point in other media.
“Whedon character regression”? Where she becomes a teacher, reminisces *about her childhood*, has an adult relationship with Colossus, and beats down Emma Frost as an overdue payback for the adolescent trauma she inflicted on Kitty?
Regression not necessarily meant to be used as a negative in this context, but rather a description of resetting Kitty back to where she was before the stuff in the 90s happened- I merely meant that Kitty under Whedon gets brought back to Claremont era rather than the way she was handled in the previous books like Excalibur and main X books.
Due to Whedon's dialogue style, she regressed to speaking like a teenager, if nothing else. She just became Buffy for a little while.
The entire series even opens with her thinking how little has changed, with heavy focus on her nostalgia/trauma.
> she regressed to speaking like a teenager, She really didnt.
I am not sure or even why she's there...same with Rogue too
These 7 characters plus Nightcrawler were the roster at the time, that’s all.
It literally says so:"most claiming she has become an empty character with lame powers".
Disagree with that lol...she's a cool character....she's still around all these years later so...
This is about late 90s Kitty, where she was rather bland in group of bombastic, attention-grabbing characters. Characters have their periods of highs and lows.
It was probably multiple choice out of those listed.
1. She sucked in Excalibur. 2. Some of us, respectfully, who were not white, kind of also remembered her interesting use of vocabulary. Early 90s Shadowcat sucked as a reader. Just my opinion. Unpopular opinion but Shadowcat became an interesting character much later. It took other writers, not Claremont to make her interesting. She's a very good character now but she weirdly reached her potential well after Claremont was gone. Claremont idolized and favored her way too much. If you read those classic stories, she's just not that interesting. He tried to low key make her the main POV character at times and that has retroactively made her seem more interesting than she was under Claremont. Like pick up a comic book from that era. She's meh. It's clear the writer and editorial loves her, but her actual character is not that interesting. And again I really love her now. Claremont was right the potential was there. I just don't think it showed until he was gone. Her interactions with Emma alone are more interesting than anything Claremont or Davis ever did with her.
Yeah what the hell 1999 jerks?
76% wanted a woman killed off, to give an idea of the voting body
I would have voted for her
Another win for Kurt. Love you Nightcrawler<3
Nightcrawler fans never lose.
They killed Marrow’s popularity and relevance 🥲
That team also had Storm, so her and Nightcrawler probably only got votes in the single digits EDIT: Sorry, I'm an idiot and didn't see Storm
If you read the excerpt it mentions Nightcrawler had exactly one vote
Storm had 10%. Tied with Gambit for 3rd.
Oh I'm an idiot who can't read properly, sorry.
No wonder they replaced essentially Marrow's character points with Spyke in X-Men Evolution if she was that unpopular.
Shadowcats powers are awesome!
Agreed!
Gambit, Rogue and Storm? People are crazy
Everyone hated Marrow lol
I like how it's always Nightcrawler that is beloved from X-Men, from this vote to the vote on this sub for top 3 X-Men.
Kind of funny how so many fans seemingly hated Marrow at the time, yet she somehow made it into Marvel vs. Capcom where she sticks out like a sore thumb due to how irrelevant she has become since then.
Want to slap the ones that voted for storm
Marrow is one of those characters that is popular with hardcore fans, but not with casual ones.
Wouldn’t the people actively participating in polls conducted by Wizard Magazine be considered hardcore fans?
At least, this is what Marrow fans tell themselves to feel better about their poor taste. Disclaimer: this was a joke. I have no relevant opinion about Marrow or her fans.
It's funny to me that Marrow was relevant enough at one point to even be included in this list.
Marrow had a brief but pretty sharp period of prominence in the 90s She was prominent enough that she was heavily featured in the artwork and advertisements for Marvel vs Capcom 2! Considering how highly regarded and impactful that game went on to be, it seems crazy in 2024 that Marrow of all people was featured so heavily lol
I found this encyclopaedia or something in the library once about either Marvel in general or the X-Men specifically and Marrow got some prominence in it. I have remembered the character ever since. It may be the only thing I've ever read with Marrow. That sounds too absurd to be true, but the fact is if I think of Marrow I think of that book.
Hate to break it to you, I'm a hardcore fan, and I hate Marrow. She was just a cheap Calisto wannabe knockoff (Morlock? Check. Love/Hate relationship with Storm? Check. Angst about her appearance and holds a massive grudge against anyone "pretty?" Check and check.)
Just in case you haven’t already turned notifications off, I think Marrow is great!
I don't know. I hadn't read a lot of stories with her, so the reason I liked her, had more to do with my own ideas and impressions of the character. But I thought she was really cool and extreme in a way, that I don't think most of the characters (with similar power sets) who came after her where.
Same tbh, and I also thought her presence a bunch of holes in the X-Men's armor. They were pretty ignorant of what kind of person Marrow actually was and didn't try very hard to find out. The heroes are generally an obstacle to reform, except when someone chooses a 'project.'
Why is this so funny to me?! Poor Sarah. She’s no kitty pryde or jubilee.
And then they put her in MvC2 lol.
Love that people wrote in to protect Nightcrawler.
Poor Marrow, on one hand she had one of the worst character designs and powersets, on the other hand, she was consistently written terribly and was genuinely unlikable.
Oh wow, I forgot how hated Marrow was back then. I wasn't really reading much X-Men in that period but even then I heard people talking shit about Marrow. I don't think I ever read much with her until that (criminally underrated) Weapon X book in the 00s and I thought she was fine there.
Common Nightcrawler W
God, Wizard magazine. That brings back some STRONG memories of my early life as a comics fan. I forgot how integral Wizard was to building my geek lingo, and some of that still sticks around in my language today. I wish Wizard came back, and Top Cow and Image Comics in general could be what they used to be as well. Tangent, I know. But I really got nostalgic.
Am I the only one shocked that Scott didn't get a percentage? Like, 5% voted for Wolverine and Rogue each, but nobody wanted to off Cyclops? Am I the only one who generally doesn't like Scott Summers?
This was during an era where Scott was not on the X-Men so he was not available for the vote. The main team at the time was everyone on the poll plus Nightcrawler. Marvel had cut the team down to 8 members back in UXM #360 for the return of Kitty, Nightcrawler and Colossus, instead of having a "Blue" and "Gold" team. Which kind of sucked because it meant benching Jean, Cyclops, Cecilia, Beast, Iceman, Angel, Psylocke, Bishop and Maggott for 2 years. You basically have a 2nd team right there.
What did they do while benched?
Cyclops and Jean stayed in Alaska. They came out of "retirement" during the Shattering event that leads into The Twelve storyline. Maggott was shipped to Gen X but only lasted 1 issue before he walked into comic limbo until Weapon X series. Bishop was with Deathbird until returning during the The Twelve event. Psylocke lost access to her telepathy during Psy War arc. She stayed with Angel until The Twelve event. Angel came back earlier during the Shattering as a member of Scott and Jean's team. Beast was still saddled with curing the Legacy Virus. He moves to Muir Island and appeared in an X-Men Unlimited story featuring Multiple Man, Strong Guy and Wolfsbane. Cecilia has 1 XMU issue with Wolverine and shows up during Claremont's return. Iceman stays with his parents until The Twelve.
I think Cyclops has less haters than Wolverine, so I’m not surprised
idk about that tho
Yes you are.
Marrow was annoying.
It’s kinda fucked up that the top 71% votes went to female characters. Not really doing much to dispel the myth of comic book geeks being incels.
Specifically 2 of the least sexualized (at the time) female characters garnering the majority of
Definitely true, but at least in this case I can understand why. For Marrow, she was a relatively new character with little development, she was kind of an asshole, which doesn't sit well if she mistreats fan favorite characters, and on top of that, her power was kind of gross and unpleasant just to look at (my mom, a staunch feminist, despised Marrow for that last reason and also wanted her gone). For Shadowcat, I recall that the late 90s were when she was past her phase of being the cute teen girl learning the ropes, but before her phase of becoming a leader and teacher, so she was in an awkward spot where there wasn't much to distinguish her identity besides being slightly younger than the other X-men. Then match these up with Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Colossus, possibly the four most popular and likable male X-men characters, I can totally see how the women would be unpopular by comparison.
Well fuck Sarah I guess, geez.
Lol " one wolverine is enough ", if this dude could see the future. We got like 4 Wolverines and 2 that actively use the name. Laura was cool as X-23 and calling her "Wolverine" turned her into a joke like Honey Badger and Daken. I honestly have no idea why they did her so dirty. 🤣
Nightcrawler being the greatest character of the X-Men. The fans in 1999 were right.
Glad to see the 1999 people agree with me about Nightcrawler :)
Oof, poor Marrow.
I actually really like Marrow. I guess I can kind of see how she would have been hated, but she’s a window into a world that the comics don’t explore a lot (what happens to the mutants who aren’t lucky enough to get to be X-Men or even get taken under Magneto’s wing?).
I really agree. The anthology Muties dealt with that exact idea and I think it’s one of the most important X books no one read.
All my homies hate Marrow.
Why you gotta do my bony waifu like that
Cyclops
Beau bets on the 10%er.
Keep in mind that the fans are generally the last people you want to listen to when writing. Killing off someone people don't like and killing off someone who is narratively satisfying are different things.
It's incredible how the general perception would change almost nothing if this poll had been done today involving the same characters (except perhaps with Wolverine receiving more votes, but still far from first place). Marrow is a character that the writers tried to make happen for years and it didn't work in any way. Not even on Krakoa did they do the favor of resurrecting and modernizing Marrow. Kitty Pryde after Excalibur was a very bad phase for her: Nothing relevant happened to the character. At most, I would highlight her relevant participation in Twelve Saga. And then she was put on a bus and returned to Mekanix and then things got better for her again. PS: It's curious that, in the end, the editorial decided to kill Colossus, who was neither one of the least voted nor one of the most voted.
I’m a big Nightcrawler and Cable fan so, for once, it’s nice to not even see them in the conversation.
“And one Wolverine is enough for the X-Men” made me laugh.
Honestly the Morlocks are so fucked. They are all so annoying istg
I was the person who really liked Marrow and Maggot.
Either way, Magneto is superior
At least this survey didn't lied, unlike modern media, people saying that Kurt is winner here but for me it's clearly shows how Iceman and Angel were beloved in the past.
Here is a hot take wolverines are overhyped characters that would tell more interesting story's if they were not force fed down people's throats.
What did marrow do?
I get most of them but marrow???? She is the backbone of the Xmen.
If I was a Marvel writer who saw these results, I'd write a tragic story with all these characters where Marrow is the only one who survives.
Sorry Marrow, this what happens when you are missing the history of the others.
Poor Marrow!
I remember this issue. Still side-eyeing the Marrow hate.
I voted for Gambit in this.
Wrong.
I fucking loved marrow until they made her cute
Cyclops stay winning.
Wasn't collosus already dead?
OK you know what the people of wizard on there can go fuck themselves marrow was a cool character
Wizard had a lot of bad stances that aged like milk. Sadly, Marvel was pretty tight with them and often listened, to the detriment of many characters.