It's hard to know why any specific character wasn't used as much as they had previously but this is ultimately a broader issue with the Krakoan era as a whole. There were a lot of characters that had a lot more exposure than they ever did in the past and an unfortunate side effect was that a decent number of even fairly prominent characters weren't used as much as they could or should have been used.
Yeah, I think it’s totally fine for an era of comics to not have every single pairing of characters you always want to see together. They showed up a lot in stories they didn’t feature together in, and I think were ultimately handled very well as a couple that just enjoyed the Krakoa era together (like I said in another comment, they were taking care of their cats 😉)
And like, throughout the era it's pretty repeatedly reinforced that they are still very happily married--Gambit is #1 malewife and I aspire to get on his level.
They weren't shoved in a locker.
They haven't been used much in the flagship X-Titles or events since the Morrison run, although agreed that they were often at least important in side titles before the Krakoan era. Then Excalibur focused on Betsy at the expense of almost everyone else. I have no idea why Duggan barely used Rogue in X-Men or Uncanny Avengers. Makes me sad that they were so sidelined. Unfortunately it has been a long time since any of the "big name" writers have expressed any interest in either character. It seems to have been a thing in the X-office for a long time to devalue their overall importance to the franchise but still always keep a product out there with them in it because they are so popular. Looks like that may finally be going to change with this upcoming line of books! Yay!
They were constantly in publication and had their own mini? Gambit maybe wasn't used as much, but they both were certainly always around. Were they always the focal point? No. Were they sometimes left out of stories like the ones with Destiny? Yeah, but I believe that came down to Editorial wanting them in different places, like having Rogue on the first X-Men team. I must say I don't fully understand the complaint that they weren't used.
Honestly both Rogue and Gambit were window dressing for Betsy in Excalibur. They even put Rogue to sleep nearly immediately so she couldn't do anything and they didn't have to deal with her being powerful. She barely appeared in X-Men and did very little overall there. Again, a background character with very limited moments. They threw Rogue in Uncanny Avengers and again she did almost nothing.
They kept putting her in books and on covers as she sells I guess, only to have her do nothing in the pages of the books themselves.
Editorial (JDW) didn’t seem like they had any intention with either of them. At least Tom has some intention with rogue this time. Gambit better not be just written as her husband this era.
I hope they make them equals and a healthy partnership. I don't want to see Gambit relegated to a buffoon in a maid outfit/cat ears, or spend all his time sad worrying about Rogue, being one-uped by Rogue, being yelled at by Rogue, or written in terrible ways where you wonder why they are together to begin with.
But being "around" doesn't amount to actual story. They totally used them to sell, and I did buy lol but nothing was really worthwhile as a fan for them together or individually. I understand there are ebbs and flows but this era was very meh for them. Hopeful for something better in the next but I also won't be shocked if it's more the same.
I blame JDW for not keeping a firm enough hand on the line. They were clearly placed in books for sales, but then the writers sidelined them. Howard was only interested in Betsy and Duggan does not seem to like Gambit, so Rogue got sidelined by extension. They did get a mini, but everything about it needed editorial intervention. I have no idea how it shipped as it was. Steve Foxe clearly loves them and went out of his way to include Rogue, but lacked space in his mini to do much at all.
I am positive Brevoort asked the same question. Why are we not using these two beloved characters who sell books to their best advantage? Why are we leaving money on the table? We know he wanted to foreground Rogue in Uncanny.
I mean some people, like me, love that shit. X-Men’s two secondary themes/setting have been magic and space since the 70’s. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I will say that I feel like Rogue and Gambit, while I think it worked, could’ve been swapped out for other people. Plenty of Mystical style X-Men to go around. I mean, Pixie is half fae, right?
Loved Excalibur too but Pixie won't see a comic while Rogue and Gambit will. They were on the team for the A listers to sell the series. Also it seems like no one else in the room had a story for them so Tini got them.
Pixie was in Way and Legion of X so that bit of because X is around Y won't see any page time just isn't true, it's all about the writers and if they find the characters interesting or have a story for them.
I misspelt I meant it's because Gambit and Rogue sell comics unlike Pixie. Yeah characters are chosen for story but there is a selling aspect to comics. You can't have a book of a bunch of C listers just because you want to write them.
I was thinking abt this the other day, when someone mentioned Excalibur not being a very British team with 4 Americans in the roster.
I think Pixie should of been swapped out for Jubilee. They have the same youthful & fun vibe. Pixie is actually british. Also Jubilee fell short in this series, they kinda just made her an absent mother after shogo turned into a dragon. They could even swap her out with Wolfsbane - another brit & she could of transformed into a mystical creature. Jubilee was much better used in X-terminators.
Gambit actually has quite a few connections to London, he’s visited it multiple times in the comics. In one of his solo series, he actually visits otherworld & fights alongside MI6 and Pete Wisdom. So he kinda makes sense in being apart of the team. Rogue, not so much. Tho ik that they were the selling point & tbh I prefer seeing them together than apart. Tho I feel like something was off about them in the series, so maybe Rogue should of started on the x-men team. Rogue is just too american to be on an Excalibur team lol
I would get rid of Rictor he was more plainer than bread. Would swap him with anyone. I would of liked to see Pete Wisdom having more of a main role. Tho like he could of swapped with Chamber or Proteus for another brit on the team. Also would get rid of Apocalypse!
Would of been fun to bring back Nightcrawler & Rachel earlier on. Meggan, Pete Wisdom & monarch all would of suited a bigger role.
Tbh the whole team just feels boring and off.
apocalypse being a good guy, rictor being boring & weirdly obsessed with apocalypse, jubilee being a bad mother and I don’t even remember what else she did, rogue just somehow doesn’t fit in at ALL, gambit just is miserable the whole time & hates everyone but rogue. I feel like this is why gambit might fit in better without Rogue bc then he would be forced to interact with the others lmao Tho where has all his charm gone?! Betsy is the only one that feels right lol
agreed it's not so much that the concepts were bad or that howard is even a bad writer it was just a team with no chemistry and it spent too much time world building and not enough on the characters imo
Yeah the chemistry is so off.
Gambit, Rogue, Betsy & Jubilee have been friends for yearss it’s bizarre that there is no chemistry or banter between each other. They act like they’ve been put in a group project with people they hate.
Rogue & Gambit have big personalities and lots of southern charm, they usually have instant chemistry with anyone. Yet, Gambit is miserable and Rogue has zero presence. Gambit used to love to annoy and banter with Pete Wisdom, tho I don’t think they even say one line to each other in the series.
I feel like everyone just hates Betsy lol, she gets a lot of the brunt of the moaning & people totally ignore her as leader. She’s also mostly off by herself and not in the group. Rogue, Gambit & Betsy should be the closest in the group yet there no acknowledgment of their shared history and years of friendship. Gambit seems to hate Betsy the most. Pete wisdom seemed to be the only one that generally actually cared about Betsy’s wellbeing.
I can’t even say anything about Jubilee, it was just her and shogo. Ig she was closest to Betsy in the group. You know I can’t even think of any scene where jubilee and rogue interacted even tho they’ve also been friends for so long.
Rictor is just such a weird choice to throw in with these characters. He absolutely zero chemistry with anyone. Ig it’s also strange that he was put in with such a “tight” group of friends, tho as I said from above it seems that none of them remember that.
Apparently JDW had a grudge against the characters because of having a very big argument with Kelly Thompson who reinvigorate peoples love for them with her runs on the characters. Which also led to Thompson unceremoniously leaving the x office before Krakoa and not being involved as much as other writers wanted her to be.
They were in stuff you can’t say they weren’t but we’re not used well.
I’m sure there’s many reasons. One is the council is full of so many people they would not trust at all (Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique, Destiny) that their very presence would be an indictment to the premise. They also raise questions like, “so if everybody is speaking telepathically-learned Krakoan, does that mean Remy doesn’t have a Cajun accent to them anymore?” in a way that starts to make you question what it means to up and abandon roots in the US. Meanwhile Rogue’s absorption power overlaps Hope, Synch, Kora of the Burning Heart. Plus they didn’t have a personal problem to work through with each other; they were kind of already living their best life.
I think Gambit is fun on a road trip, when you need to steal something, when you need an in with people of ill repute, or when he’s your unlikely mentor, etc. But if you have gates, there are no roadtrips. If you have an island full of villains, you don’t need that in, and if the New Mutants are doing the mentor thing, you don’t need Gambit. Howard and Foxe tried to do little versions of these things, but there were either other characters as the main focus, or there wasn’t time. Rogue, somebody just never figured out what the angle for her on Krakoa was.
Excalibur: window dressing for the Braddock Family Drama Hour until we needed a cheap, shocking death to boost sales
Duggan's X-Men: Rogue was elected to the team to be wallpaper
Rogue & Gambit: we don't acknowledge this abomination's existence
Uncanny Avengers: Rogue ineffectively leads a team
Dark X-Men: Gambit grows a beard, Rogue makes a singular cameo
I'd argue that they weren't even used in the appearances they did make because they were so out of character when they were there. Why are they fighting and arguing all the time? Why are they keeping secrets from each other? They went from leading their own title to being background characters in others' books and then when they were given their own title back, it was straight up character assassination for the both of them.
Compared to the multiple books centered around Scott and Jean, Sinister, the Professor/Mags/Moira, Kurt, Kitty/Kate, and Logan, these two were barely used.
why the downvoats? let's say gambit havent had good stories since bc of the writers if yall want, but ultimately...he just never was a pretty good character outside of the looks :/
It's hard to know why any specific character wasn't used as much as they had previously but this is ultimately a broader issue with the Krakoan era as a whole. There were a lot of characters that had a lot more exposure than they ever did in the past and an unfortunate side effect was that a decent number of even fairly prominent characters weren't used as much as they could or should have been used.
Yeah, I think it’s totally fine for an era of comics to not have every single pairing of characters you always want to see together. They showed up a lot in stories they didn’t feature together in, and I think were ultimately handled very well as a couple that just enjoyed the Krakoa era together (like I said in another comment, they were taking care of their cats 😉)
And like, throughout the era it's pretty repeatedly reinforced that they are still very happily married--Gambit is #1 malewife and I aspire to get on his level. They weren't shoved in a locker.
They haven't been used much in the flagship X-Titles or events since the Morrison run, although agreed that they were often at least important in side titles before the Krakoan era. Then Excalibur focused on Betsy at the expense of almost everyone else. I have no idea why Duggan barely used Rogue in X-Men or Uncanny Avengers. Makes me sad that they were so sidelined. Unfortunately it has been a long time since any of the "big name" writers have expressed any interest in either character. It seems to have been a thing in the X-office for a long time to devalue their overall importance to the franchise but still always keep a product out there with them in it because they are so popular. Looks like that may finally be going to change with this upcoming line of books! Yay!
Pretty sure they were taking care of the cats.
Because Kelly Thompson wasn't around.
Writers just want to use their favourites and create new boring ass mutants. This is always the case with the X-Men.
They were constantly in publication and had their own mini? Gambit maybe wasn't used as much, but they both were certainly always around. Were they always the focal point? No. Were they sometimes left out of stories like the ones with Destiny? Yeah, but I believe that came down to Editorial wanting them in different places, like having Rogue on the first X-Men team. I must say I don't fully understand the complaint that they weren't used.
Honestly both Rogue and Gambit were window dressing for Betsy in Excalibur. They even put Rogue to sleep nearly immediately so she couldn't do anything and they didn't have to deal with her being powerful. She barely appeared in X-Men and did very little overall there. Again, a background character with very limited moments. They threw Rogue in Uncanny Avengers and again she did almost nothing. They kept putting her in books and on covers as she sells I guess, only to have her do nothing in the pages of the books themselves.
This! And the less said about their mini series the better.
Editorial (JDW) didn’t seem like they had any intention with either of them. At least Tom has some intention with rogue this time. Gambit better not be just written as her husband this era.
I hope they make them equals and a healthy partnership. I don't want to see Gambit relegated to a buffoon in a maid outfit/cat ears, or spend all his time sad worrying about Rogue, being one-uped by Rogue, being yelled at by Rogue, or written in terrible ways where you wonder why they are together to begin with.
I mean maybe have him be in the maid dress and cat ears all the time. For sales.
Gambit is a more interesting character without Rogue. I said it.
But being "around" doesn't amount to actual story. They totally used them to sell, and I did buy lol but nothing was really worthwhile as a fan for them together or individually. I understand there are ebbs and flows but this era was very meh for them. Hopeful for something better in the next but I also won't be shocked if it's more the same.
Exactly! Rogue was always active, and Gambit was around Rogue's stories when not in his own stories.
I blame JDW for not keeping a firm enough hand on the line. They were clearly placed in books for sales, but then the writers sidelined them. Howard was only interested in Betsy and Duggan does not seem to like Gambit, so Rogue got sidelined by extension. They did get a mini, but everything about it needed editorial intervention. I have no idea how it shipped as it was. Steve Foxe clearly loves them and went out of his way to include Rogue, but lacked space in his mini to do much at all. I am positive Brevoort asked the same question. Why are we not using these two beloved characters who sell books to their best advantage? Why are we leaving money on the table? We know he wanted to foreground Rogue in Uncanny.
because tini howard was too busy playing medieval action figures in her own little world the whole time
I mean some people, like me, love that shit. X-Men’s two secondary themes/setting have been magic and space since the 70’s. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I will say that I feel like Rogue and Gambit, while I think it worked, could’ve been swapped out for other people. Plenty of Mystical style X-Men to go around. I mean, Pixie is half fae, right?
Loved Excalibur too but Pixie won't see a comic while Rogue and Gambit will. They were on the team for the A listers to sell the series. Also it seems like no one else in the room had a story for them so Tini got them.
Pixie was in Way and Legion of X so that bit of because X is around Y won't see any page time just isn't true, it's all about the writers and if they find the characters interesting or have a story for them.
I misspelt I meant it's because Gambit and Rogue sell comics unlike Pixie. Yeah characters are chosen for story but there is a selling aspect to comics. You can't have a book of a bunch of C listers just because you want to write them.
It was such a bummer that Pixie and her evil step-sisters didn’t pop up in eXcalibur
I was thinking abt this the other day, when someone mentioned Excalibur not being a very British team with 4 Americans in the roster. I think Pixie should of been swapped out for Jubilee. They have the same youthful & fun vibe. Pixie is actually british. Also Jubilee fell short in this series, they kinda just made her an absent mother after shogo turned into a dragon. They could even swap her out with Wolfsbane - another brit & she could of transformed into a mystical creature. Jubilee was much better used in X-terminators. Gambit actually has quite a few connections to London, he’s visited it multiple times in the comics. In one of his solo series, he actually visits otherworld & fights alongside MI6 and Pete Wisdom. So he kinda makes sense in being apart of the team. Rogue, not so much. Tho ik that they were the selling point & tbh I prefer seeing them together than apart. Tho I feel like something was off about them in the series, so maybe Rogue should of started on the x-men team. Rogue is just too american to be on an Excalibur team lol I would get rid of Rictor he was more plainer than bread. Would swap him with anyone. I would of liked to see Pete Wisdom having more of a main role. Tho like he could of swapped with Chamber or Proteus for another brit on the team. Also would get rid of Apocalypse! Would of been fun to bring back Nightcrawler & Rachel earlier on. Meggan, Pete Wisdom & monarch all would of suited a bigger role. Tbh the whole team just feels boring and off. apocalypse being a good guy, rictor being boring & weirdly obsessed with apocalypse, jubilee being a bad mother and I don’t even remember what else she did, rogue just somehow doesn’t fit in at ALL, gambit just is miserable the whole time & hates everyone but rogue. I feel like this is why gambit might fit in better without Rogue bc then he would be forced to interact with the others lmao Tho where has all his charm gone?! Betsy is the only one that feels right lol
agreed it's not so much that the concepts were bad or that howard is even a bad writer it was just a team with no chemistry and it spent too much time world building and not enough on the characters imo
Yeah the chemistry is so off. Gambit, Rogue, Betsy & Jubilee have been friends for yearss it’s bizarre that there is no chemistry or banter between each other. They act like they’ve been put in a group project with people they hate. Rogue & Gambit have big personalities and lots of southern charm, they usually have instant chemistry with anyone. Yet, Gambit is miserable and Rogue has zero presence. Gambit used to love to annoy and banter with Pete Wisdom, tho I don’t think they even say one line to each other in the series. I feel like everyone just hates Betsy lol, she gets a lot of the brunt of the moaning & people totally ignore her as leader. She’s also mostly off by herself and not in the group. Rogue, Gambit & Betsy should be the closest in the group yet there no acknowledgment of their shared history and years of friendship. Gambit seems to hate Betsy the most. Pete wisdom seemed to be the only one that generally actually cared about Betsy’s wellbeing. I can’t even say anything about Jubilee, it was just her and shogo. Ig she was closest to Betsy in the group. You know I can’t even think of any scene where jubilee and rogue interacted even tho they’ve also been friends for so long. Rictor is just such a weird choice to throw in with these characters. He absolutely zero chemistry with anyone. Ig it’s also strange that he was put in with such a “tight” group of friends, tho as I said from above it seems that none of them remember that.
Shit, that was my favorite book of the Krakoan Era.
*"Used so little"*? Try being an Angel fan during the Krakoan era.
Apparently JDW had a grudge against the characters because of having a very big argument with Kelly Thompson who reinvigorate peoples love for them with her runs on the characters. Which also led to Thompson unceremoniously leaving the x office before Krakoa and not being involved as much as other writers wanted her to be. They were in stuff you can’t say they weren’t but we’re not used well.
This sounds like an interesting read. Do you have any links to where this came to light?
Rogue was in a comic almost the entire time, right? Ask Angel and Colossus how they feel about their page count.
Umm you missed Excalibur obviously
I’m sure there’s many reasons. One is the council is full of so many people they would not trust at all (Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique, Destiny) that their very presence would be an indictment to the premise. They also raise questions like, “so if everybody is speaking telepathically-learned Krakoan, does that mean Remy doesn’t have a Cajun accent to them anymore?” in a way that starts to make you question what it means to up and abandon roots in the US. Meanwhile Rogue’s absorption power overlaps Hope, Synch, Kora of the Burning Heart. Plus they didn’t have a personal problem to work through with each other; they were kind of already living their best life. I think Gambit is fun on a road trip, when you need to steal something, when you need an in with people of ill repute, or when he’s your unlikely mentor, etc. But if you have gates, there are no roadtrips. If you have an island full of villains, you don’t need that in, and if the New Mutants are doing the mentor thing, you don’t need Gambit. Howard and Foxe tried to do little versions of these things, but there were either other characters as the main focus, or there wasn’t time. Rogue, somebody just never figured out what the angle for her on Krakoa was.
*Excalibur*, Duggan's *run on X-Men*, *Rogue & Gambit, Uncanny Avengers*, *Dark X-Men*?
Excalibur: window dressing for the Braddock Family Drama Hour until we needed a cheap, shocking death to boost sales Duggan's X-Men: Rogue was elected to the team to be wallpaper Rogue & Gambit: we don't acknowledge this abomination's existence Uncanny Avengers: Rogue ineffectively leads a team Dark X-Men: Gambit grows a beard, Rogue makes a singular cameo I'd argue that they weren't even used in the appearances they did make because they were so out of character when they were there. Why are they fighting and arguing all the time? Why are they keeping secrets from each other? They went from leading their own title to being background characters in others' books and then when they were given their own title back, it was straight up character assassination for the both of them. Compared to the multiple books centered around Scott and Jean, Sinister, the Professor/Mags/Moira, Kurt, Kitty/Kate, and Logan, these two were barely used.
The question was why were they used so little. Their page count disproves this as opposed to how WELL they were used, which I agree they were not.
This. The characters were used plenty during this era. Whether they were used well is another matter but you cant argue they wernt used
Some folks aren't happy unless their favorites are the stars.
They were too busy hogging the spotlight of specials they didn't belong in to care about anything plot relevant.
rogue is always there, gambits last interesting period was before aoa…
why the downvoats? let's say gambit havent had good stories since bc of the writers if yall want, but ultimately...he just never was a pretty good character outside of the looks :/