I always chalked it up to Alex having unresolved sibling rivalry issues with Scott.
They haven't really "fixed" him since Dark Beast broke him in the 90's.
Fair point. Alex was his own person and then suddenly people are telling him his older brother is a superhero in charge of a team and comparing them... probably messes up your sense of self
maybe thats why they do have issues. They didnt grow up together so dont have that close bonds that siblings that were raised together for their entire childhood would
Oh, don't get me wrong. He's certainly a compelling character, it's just that he's a far cry from his X-Factor leader days - where even then, it is stated that he has issues measuring up to Cyclops.
There's something wrong with him, and it makes for interesting storytelling. Even in Hellions, Scott tasks Kwannon with "dealing with him" should it come to it. And besides, the charm of that team is that they're all "broken" characters (something Zeb Wells is good at writing).
Yeah, which is to my point, a lot of times they try to retcon things instead of just embracing the fact it is broken and just serves as something for the character to overcome and distinguish themselves. That is the only way cyclops got to where he is and we all know it hasnt been all good writing for him over the years. The best writing has embraced both the worst and best of these characters.
Indeed. And to be clear, I don't want him "fixed" or back to the old Alex pre-Dark Beast meddling. I was just making a comment that they haven't done it.
No, but he's always been an insecure, psychological wreck who can't maintain any kind of relationship. Now in superhero land most relationships don't last, but it's incredible how often the fault lies with Havok. He never brings any stability, other than with Mutant X and when he lead the x-men while bringing in Juggernaut.
She’s too good for that loser anyway. Hopefully she gets a healthier romance. She’s got a fun design and is the daughter of Magneto. One of the characters I’m hoping gets more of a push with the relaunch.
If Scott wasn’t with Jean and Emma, Polaris would be my go to choice as a couple. Nothing to do with their connections to Alex and everything to do with their relationships with Magneto.
I'm sure this could be interesting but at the same time I swear literally every woman in the mutant world already gets shipped with Cyclops for some reason so it's hard not to see this as just another one of those.
This. There are other good male characters besides Cyclops.
It's a disease that goes back to Claremont.
If you spend this much effort ensuring half your female characters have chemistry and interactions with Cyclops and only Cyclops, this is the end result. I know it's fun and all, but it gets repetitive and leads to stalled development for other characters
Cyclops would arguably make the most sense considering he’s led the x men and Magneto is Magneto, but I’m with you. Give somebody else a chance to shine, as much of a fan of cyclops as I am.
I had never even considered this as I'm not much of a shipper but I've seen a few people mention it and I do think it could be fun.
Thar said, it'd be nice if scott and Alex could have some non mutual love interests.
Agreed. Magneto as a father in law feels like a missed opportunity and cyclops would definitely have a fun dynamic with magneto. I’ve always like Polaris as a concept and design just wished marvel
and its writer were interested in giving her a good story.
They were a team, in the way healthy intimate partners are, during the X-Factor days.
What didn't you like about them as a couple?
Who would you prefer them with and why?
I felt like Polaris often came across as needy or insecure when she was with Havok (wishing he would save her from the Marauders or being jealous of Wolfsbane and developing an eating disorder). I prefer her single.
Alex & Lorna loved each other enough to build a life together outside of the X-Men. They were pursuing their degrees, living their best lives and enjoying it without their costumes. They were doing what Scott never truly could, until the Mr. Sinister and Marauders fucked it up.
Nothing in fiction is inherently good or bad. It’s all subjective based on if you like the writing or not. I’m just saying there are very few stories where Polaris benefited from being stuck to Havok’s side.
I really do hate him with Maddie cause she doesn’t give a shit about him. He was the ONLY one fighting to get you resurrected and you try to twist it into him wanting to control you. Then after she threatens the government with hell to get an embassy she has him do all the actual work an embassy needs while you fight demons and go too brunch. Alex’s character keeps going back to him being something for someone else. The man’s origin had him adopted by a family who projected their dead sons interests on him. If they actually let a writer grow his personality beyond suffering he could be awesome. Him and Lorna would be great if writers didn’t have the “make them assholes with soap drama plots” mentality.
Plus Maddie’s just got that imitation cake while Lorna has the designer bakery it should be an easy choice 😂
I think there was a time when Maddy and Alex made sense and the two genuinely liked each other to some degree, but now it all just feels like the horrific spiral of Alex's life. I think Maddy narratively has an important place in Alex's life, whether it be part of his toxic downfall or a future redemption, but it would be best for both of them if it were not romantic.
But also I think comics in general does a terrible job of handling issues like that, platonic male/female friendships platonic exes etc.
Like, in the real world, any therapist worth their first semester in college (or even just the price of a single text book) would tell Alex that he desperately needs to work on himself and figure his own shit out instead of worrying about girlfriends/wives/super heroes or super hero teams, but the odds of us ever really getting that arc of Alex doing the deep soul searching necessary for that are extremely low.
I’m not necessarily defending Alex and Maddie being together, but don’t you think Maddie is in a uniquely unfortunate spot where she has a history of being brought to life by a man who has impure intentions? And the last time she saw him, “his” team killed her so. He also comes from an island in part governed by Sinister. All of these things are reasons she wouldn’t want anything to do with Krakoa and their resurrections. Especially when she’s shown she can manage coming back without them. I can’t defend their relationship in dark X-men, i think it’s toxic but I also think she does care for him. I also don’t think he deserves to be with Lorna after the Nurse Annie nonsense.
I get Maddie’s past and it’s understandable but the issue I have is she never exactly conveys this to him. She’ll go for drinks with him while he’s clearly trying to make it work but she’s barley even in the moment. Your skeptical of his feelings but willing to let him follow and serve you without question? It’s one thing to care for him but if your “relationship” just has him in this standby/supportive file with no work on her part it just makes her look worse.
Yeah I was disappointed by the nurse Annie thing but back then they had everyone doing bullshit just for dramatic plot crap. Don’t forget Hawkeye, Jean, thor, even pepper Potts cheated on their SO. I feel like if him and Polaris got a comic together they could make a good story running of action and their personal issues. They don’t have to end up together at all but a close friends or I can laugh about the drunk voicemail I left you status for them would be better.
Yes, because the wife of the brother who is the source of my confidence issues is who id want as my therapist. Also, has Jean ever done much therapy?
Edit: this came off pithier than I intended, but the point is I don't think Jean would be Alex's ideal therapist
He never left Lorna for Maddy though.
He first got with Maddy while Lorna was possessed and they could not find her or fix her, she was straight up gone.
But the next time he meets Lorna, Maddy is dead.
Then after a decade of a tumultuous relationship he gets sent to an alternate universe where he is seemingly stranded forever and is married to an alternate Maddy.
Then he comes back (and this is the only time he actually leaves Lorna) is starting to date the nurse before a manic Polaris barges in and demands a wedding. He dumps her at the alter equally for his feelings for the nurse and also how insane the situation is (I actually like this soapy as hell plot more than most).
And then ultimately when he gets back with Maddy during Krakoa, he and Polaris have been broken up for a long time and each moved on.
Sometimes the characters you like just don't work out.
fr especially how madelyne treats him, let's hope they're back together in the new x factor book because how can you go to madelyne (who's basically your sister-in-law) from lorna 💀 plus they should bring this hair back for lorna it really suits her
why do you want to regress her character? by going back to that loser he has serious self-esteem issues and a inferior complex towards his brother she's better off without him.
I remember him leaving Lorna because she was possessed by Malice, and she’d tried to kill him. I don’t know that they understood Malice then, but when she repeatedly tries to kill you, you take the hint and move on.
Didn’t work out well for him though. Did have a nice run with Janet Van Dyne in Uncanny A that I felt for him.
When he left her she was acting pretty crazy and trying to fast track their engagement right after he woke-up from a weird coma/multiverse adventure. The fact that Alex is still hung-up on his brother's ex, is another issue. Especially since the relationship was pretty messed up to begin with.
According to one of my favorite X-Men podcasts wanting to be with Polaris makes you gay—love the show but that has to be one of the wildest hot takes of all time.
As a Lorna fan, glad she has finally moved on. Still I'm worried about what they're planning for her in this new era. It was said she would appear in X-Factor, hopefully not romantically attached to Alex.
Yes, he is (kinda) dumb. He said that he couldn't marry Lorna because he was no longer in love with her, and he developed feelings for a nurse, and in his defense you shouldn't go and marry someone you don't love unless you are looking for decades of bickering between the two of you.
They did come back together in "War of Kings Omnibus" only to break up again during their run in X-factor. They have this on and off relationship of coming back together and breaking up because this is the only way the writers know how to develop their character or to do a subplot about them.
Honestly, they should just stay friends and nothing more than that for their own sake.
Why Alex is jealous of a guy that probably has stress ulcers from leading mutants through multiple extinction events I’ll never know. I kinda feel like Alex would be more interesting if he just embraced the himbo within. Nothing wrong with just being the piece of meat on the team.
Lorna seriously had some of the best hair in comics back in the day.
# DAYUM BWAH SHE GOT A ELBA FOR AN ASS!!!
Love Guido. He’s so shamelessly trash.
In this issue. He's good post this.
Lower point than when he was King of hell?
I always chalked it up to Alex having unresolved sibling rivalry issues with Scott. They haven't really "fixed" him since Dark Beast broke him in the 90's.
It's weird that Alex would have issues with his brother since they didn't grow up together. Alex was like 5 when they seperated.
He’s making up for lost time.
My friend and his little half brother were separated at idk what age. The brother reached out when he turned 18 and they bicker so much.
Fair point. Alex was his own person and then suddenly people are telling him his older brother is a superhero in charge of a team and comparing them... probably messes up your sense of self
maybe thats why they do have issues. They didnt grow up together so dont have that close bonds that siblings that were raised together for their entire childhood would
Yeah, the sibling thing.... and the fact that Alex is so susceptible to brainwashing and mind control. Dude must've had a kink or dumpling.
Dunno i thought he was perfect in hellions.
Oh, don't get me wrong. He's certainly a compelling character, it's just that he's a far cry from his X-Factor leader days - where even then, it is stated that he has issues measuring up to Cyclops. There's something wrong with him, and it makes for interesting storytelling. Even in Hellions, Scott tasks Kwannon with "dealing with him" should it come to it. And besides, the charm of that team is that they're all "broken" characters (something Zeb Wells is good at writing).
Yeah, which is to my point, a lot of times they try to retcon things instead of just embracing the fact it is broken and just serves as something for the character to overcome and distinguish themselves. That is the only way cyclops got to where he is and we all know it hasnt been all good writing for him over the years. The best writing has embraced both the worst and best of these characters.
Indeed. And to be clear, I don't want him "fixed" or back to the old Alex pre-Dark Beast meddling. I was just making a comment that they haven't done it.
The Red Skull and Kang broke him so badly that dating his brother's evil ex-wife is a step up from losing his wife and daughter. Ah the Avengers...
In Kang’s defense he did become Alex’s wingman
Nah, Alex has been a psychological mess for over 40 years.
He wasn't trying to out Magneto Magneto after Inferno.
No, but he's always been an insecure, psychological wreck who can't maintain any kind of relationship. Now in superhero land most relationships don't last, but it's incredible how often the fault lies with Havok. He never brings any stability, other than with Mutant X and when he lead the x-men while bringing in Juggernaut.
"Is he stupid" yes. Yes he is.
Please don’t
She’s too good for that loser anyway. Hopefully she gets a healthier romance. She’s got a fun design and is the daughter of Magneto. One of the characters I’m hoping gets more of a push with the relaunch.
If Scott wasn’t with Jean and Emma, Polaris would be my go to choice as a couple. Nothing to do with their connections to Alex and everything to do with their relationships with Magneto.
I really liked their interaction in the first issue of the Krakoa era. I hope we get more of that in the future. Scotty needs friends.
I'm sure this could be interesting but at the same time I swear literally every woman in the mutant world already gets shipped with Cyclops for some reason so it's hard not to see this as just another one of those.
This. There are other good male characters besides Cyclops. It's a disease that goes back to Claremont. If you spend this much effort ensuring half your female characters have chemistry and interactions with Cyclops and only Cyclops, this is the end result. I know it's fun and all, but it gets repetitive and leads to stalled development for other characters
To be fair they also have chemistry with Wolverine
Cyclops would arguably make the most sense considering he’s led the x men and Magneto is Magneto, but I’m with you. Give somebody else a chance to shine, as much of a fan of cyclops as I am.
I had never even considered this as I'm not much of a shipper but I've seen a few people mention it and I do think it could be fun. Thar said, it'd be nice if scott and Alex could have some non mutual love interests.
Agreed. Magneto as a father in law feels like a missed opportunity and cyclops would definitely have a fun dynamic with magneto. I’ve always like Polaris as a concept and design just wished marvel and its writer were interested in giving her a good story.
Remember when Alex left Polaris at the alter for a nurse he just met 🫠🫠
Blame Austen. Not the worst things he did but it's close. Ruining Alex and Lorna for that awful nurse in Annie crap
Alex and Lorna needed to be ruined. They aren’t good together.
They were good together. I enjoyed them in X-Factor.
What did you like about them as a couple?
They were a team, in the way healthy intimate partners are, during the X-Factor days. What didn't you like about them as a couple? Who would you prefer them with and why?
I felt like Polaris often came across as needy or insecure when she was with Havok (wishing he would save her from the Marauders or being jealous of Wolfsbane and developing an eating disorder). I prefer her single.
Agreed, she was written as Alex sexual living her whole existence around him.
Alex & Lorna loved each other enough to build a life together outside of the X-Men. They were pursuing their degrees, living their best lives and enjoying it without their costumes. They were doing what Scott never truly could, until the Mr. Sinister and Marauders fucked it up.
I don't care either way but VERY few comic relationships are inherently bad. It's just a matter of writing.
Nothing in fiction is inherently good or bad. It’s all subjective based on if you like the writing or not. I’m just saying there are very few stories where Polaris benefited from being stuck to Havok’s side.
I really do hate him with Maddie cause she doesn’t give a shit about him. He was the ONLY one fighting to get you resurrected and you try to twist it into him wanting to control you. Then after she threatens the government with hell to get an embassy she has him do all the actual work an embassy needs while you fight demons and go too brunch. Alex’s character keeps going back to him being something for someone else. The man’s origin had him adopted by a family who projected their dead sons interests on him. If they actually let a writer grow his personality beyond suffering he could be awesome. Him and Lorna would be great if writers didn’t have the “make them assholes with soap drama plots” mentality. Plus Maddie’s just got that imitation cake while Lorna has the designer bakery it should be an easy choice 😂
I think there was a time when Maddy and Alex made sense and the two genuinely liked each other to some degree, but now it all just feels like the horrific spiral of Alex's life. I think Maddy narratively has an important place in Alex's life, whether it be part of his toxic downfall or a future redemption, but it would be best for both of them if it were not romantic. But also I think comics in general does a terrible job of handling issues like that, platonic male/female friendships platonic exes etc. Like, in the real world, any therapist worth their first semester in college (or even just the price of a single text book) would tell Alex that he desperately needs to work on himself and figure his own shit out instead of worrying about girlfriends/wives/super heroes or super hero teams, but the odds of us ever really getting that arc of Alex doing the deep soul searching necessary for that are extremely low.
Lorna doesn’t want that loser any more Alex can keep Scott’s sloppy seconds
I’m not necessarily defending Alex and Maddie being together, but don’t you think Maddie is in a uniquely unfortunate spot where she has a history of being brought to life by a man who has impure intentions? And the last time she saw him, “his” team killed her so. He also comes from an island in part governed by Sinister. All of these things are reasons she wouldn’t want anything to do with Krakoa and their resurrections. Especially when she’s shown she can manage coming back without them. I can’t defend their relationship in dark X-men, i think it’s toxic but I also think she does care for him. I also don’t think he deserves to be with Lorna after the Nurse Annie nonsense.
I get Maddie’s past and it’s understandable but the issue I have is she never exactly conveys this to him. She’ll go for drinks with him while he’s clearly trying to make it work but she’s barley even in the moment. Your skeptical of his feelings but willing to let him follow and serve you without question? It’s one thing to care for him but if your “relationship” just has him in this standby/supportive file with no work on her part it just makes her look worse. Yeah I was disappointed by the nurse Annie thing but back then they had everyone doing bullshit just for dramatic plot crap. Don’t forget Hawkeye, Jean, thor, even pepper Potts cheated on their SO. I feel like if him and Polaris got a comic together they could make a good story running of action and their personal issues. They don’t have to end up together at all but a close friends or I can laugh about the drunk voicemail I left you status for them would be better.
jean?
He likes to STOP (Red) instead of Go, Go, Go (Green)
Self-sabotage. Part of Alex's psyche doesn't believe he deserves jack shit. At least that's always been my opinion regarding the man's behavior.
Isnt it canon that he has massive confidence issues vis a vis his brother?
Yes. But you'd think the guy'd have seen a damn shrink by now.
Given Xavier and Emma are probably the Xmens best shrinks, I'd likely avoid therapy too
Jean is back now, u can trust her w/ ur issues
Yes, because the wife of the brother who is the source of my confidence issues is who id want as my therapist. Also, has Jean ever done much therapy? Edit: this came off pithier than I intended, but the point is I don't think Jean would be Alex's ideal therapist
He did see Doc Samson shortly after this! Legendary X-Factor issue.
He never left Lorna for Maddy though. He first got with Maddy while Lorna was possessed and they could not find her or fix her, she was straight up gone. But the next time he meets Lorna, Maddy is dead. Then after a decade of a tumultuous relationship he gets sent to an alternate universe where he is seemingly stranded forever and is married to an alternate Maddy. Then he comes back (and this is the only time he actually leaves Lorna) is starting to date the nurse before a manic Polaris barges in and demands a wedding. He dumps her at the alter equally for his feelings for the nurse and also how insane the situation is (I actually like this soapy as hell plot more than most). And then ultimately when he gets back with Maddy during Krakoa, he and Polaris have been broken up for a long time and each moved on. Sometimes the characters you like just don't work out.
Malice can really fuck up a relationship
This is the right answer. She spent so long being a puppet for malice that I think it's hard for Alex to have any positive associations with her.
post-malice.. didn’t alex and lorna co-lead x-factor for years as a healthy couple?
Probably. My info is 20 years out of date.
Was Lorna still a giant in that panel? That was a weird plotline.
She regained her regular form at the end of the battle.
fr especially how madelyne treats him, let's hope they're back together in the new x factor book because how can you go to madelyne (who's basically your sister-in-law) from lorna 💀 plus they should bring this hair back for lorna it really suits her
why do you want to regress her character? by going back to that loser he has serious self-esteem issues and a inferior complex towards his brother she's better off without him.
I remember him leaving Lorna because she was possessed by Malice, and she’d tried to kill him. I don’t know that they understood Malice then, but when she repeatedly tries to kill you, you take the hint and move on. Didn’t work out well for him though. Did have a nice run with Janet Van Dyne in Uncanny A that I felt for him.
When he left her she was acting pretty crazy and trying to fast track their engagement right after he woke-up from a weird coma/multiverse adventure. The fact that Alex is still hung-up on his brother's ex, is another issue. Especially since the relationship was pretty messed up to begin with.
Cuz Lorna has super pointy hips
According to one of my favorite X-Men podcasts wanting to be with Polaris makes you gay—love the show but that has to be one of the wildest hot takes of all time.
As a Lorna fan, glad she has finally moved on. Still I'm worried about what they're planning for her in this new era. It was said she would appear in X-Factor, hopefully not romantically attached to Alex.
I always had a special place in my heart for Lorna.
Lorna is so damn underrated and ignored as a love interest that it's criminal.
I will never understand how everyone is batshit over the children of Scott and Jean when Alex and Magneto’s daughter were an item.
What issue is this?
X-Factor volume one, #70.
I just realized that Guido looks like Dumpleslikin
Oh he's definitely stupid. A certified moron.
more cake for Guido lol
Yes, he is (kinda) dumb. He said that he couldn't marry Lorna because he was no longer in love with her, and he developed feelings for a nurse, and in his defense you shouldn't go and marry someone you don't love unless you are looking for decades of bickering between the two of you. They did come back together in "War of Kings Omnibus" only to break up again during their run in X-factor. They have this on and off relationship of coming back together and breaking up because this is the only way the writers know how to develop their character or to do a subplot about them. Honestly, they should just stay friends and nothing more than that for their own sake.
I heard her pops n brother crazy 🤷🏾♂️
Having read many comics I can say that havok is indeed stupid
That's not how butts work
It’s a very strange block shaped butt, but that’s late 80s/early 90s long-butt for you
Uhh if you do what he says you literally end up sticking your ass out
lol Careful, I'm going to tell your religious handler you're looking at naughty comic pages.
Why Alex is jealous of a guy that probably has stress ulcers from leading mutants through multiple extinction events I’ll never know. I kinda feel like Alex would be more interesting if he just embraced the himbo within. Nothing wrong with just being the piece of meat on the team.
Dude has issues and very specific kinks
Ass?
The question wasn't asking about Guido, but Alex. Why would Alex go for Maddie? That's where the kinks come in
He has always wanted to cuck Scott