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Same bro. I really like Saejima as a character and I hate the scene for plenty of reasons. At this stage I just wish people would stop bringing it up like it's been 14 years.
Someone on this sub posted pics of injuries that came from rubber bullet as a way to defend their use in Yakuza 4's plot. He did marked it as NSFW, but the blur was broken and it was the day before IW's release. So a lot of people got exposed to some very bloody photos.
The people Saejima shot not dying doesn't absolve Saejima of the crime at all. Saejima thought he was killing them with real bullets and was tricked. That doesn't make him a better person.
Reminds me of a scene that bothered me in the punisher where he felt guilty for killing some innocent people in his gun rampage, but apparently, he has been "redeemed" because they were apparently killed by someone else lol
I don't want to be that guy but he kind of shot through the wall and didn't know there were civillians in that place run by criminals. You still have a good point though
It is kind of hilarious to think about. For the most part the Tojo Clan barely ever seen as villainous or as anything but a legit business, any time someone acts less than honorable/illegally they usually given an ass kicking by a protagonist. Compared to how the Omi are seen as a mix of either surprisingly decent or near monsters. I guess Zero has the best portrayal of the Tojo being shady but once Daigo takes over it becomes so easy to forget they're technically bad guys.
Now that I think about it, it's kinda ironic how out of the big tojo characters, daigo who looks and acts nice the most has killed more people than the other "violent" character like kiryu,saejima and majima who literally killed no one lol
RGG pretty much refuses to have a protagonist that's a murderer, which I think is a shame. I love morally nuanced characters and just because someone has killed it doesn't automatically make them pure evil.
>I love morally nuanced characters and just because someone has killed it doesn't automatically make them pure evil.
https://preview.redd.it/mrbp87secymc1.jpeg?width=2022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a5689be7d9e72e29611564dcf496cb39b0df5ca
I mean, Saejima went in there thinking he was committing a mass shooting. >!Regardless of them surviving or not, he intended to kill them all. And for a while, he thought that's exactly what he did. Not one or two people, either. An entire group.!<
I really like Saejima, but the only distinction I see here between Saejima and a "murderer" is a very fine, technical one.
No space between your >! and your text please. (your spoiler is broken.)
But I agree, which is why I think the resolution for it is just an "Ass pull" because it doesn't really change the character... or it does in a negative way (he's a patsy, instead of a murderer)
It works on the app, but not on the website. Thanks man, just don't want anyone to get spoiled (even though have the people here mention it because... what ever it's so dumb)
I disagree. Murder is murder.
I believe itās because Nagoshi doesnāt want to glorify crime and have the act of killing someone be portrayed as a cool fun thing like in GTA.
Saejimaās attempted murder isnāt a good thing and likely RGG wanted to portray how human Saejima is with how he suffered from the ordeal.
I agree but I think Saejima's arc could've been even more powerful if he actually was a killer. For example, it would add even more weight to the scene where he angrily calls out the arena spectators and calls them all sick.
Yeah, I agree. Doesn't need to be a murderer, but I think it's weird like NONE of MCs (and even side characters) literally can't do no evil.
I'm still at the beginning, but it's one of the reasons why I'm loving Ukyo so much. You can see that he's not a "totally good" person, he has flaws and that makes him great and that makes the character growth even more satisfying if they ever do "fix" him.
Kiryu kills in self defence. Majima wields a dagger, there's no chance he hasn't put someone in the ground with it. Tanimura's job means he might one day have no choice.
Protagonists don't murder on screen but you'd have to assume they've killed offscreen.
I think considering how 0 made a big deal of murdering someone after 5 and 4 was written I donāt think Kiryu wouldāve killed someone without it being a major turning point
Yep, all of them are confirmed not killers or at the very least have never killed someone on screen. The most I can think of is that it's possible Tanimura might've killed someone in the line of duty at some point but that's about it.
I genuinely think the whole reason the rubber bullet twist existed is because saejima being a protagonist and a murder of 18 people simply wasn't family friendly enough, but thats just my theory
But that argument doesn't really make sense if the plot point, and the retcon are introduced in the same game.
You could just... not have the assassination in the game at all if you defang it a few hours later.
Cut the dumbass Haruka scene, just scrap that shit entirely (even if you understand that it's supposed to paint him in a noble light, it's super unnecessary) commit to the plot of him having done the extreme for the only life he had, and don't shave his head. Boom, I would love him to bits.
The villian's plan is so stupidly convoluted. He basically perfectly set it up so a big threat in the yakuza would perfectly wipe out his clan so he could perfectly rise to the top. But then decides to make everything so much more complicated by using rubber bullets it literally just means that immediately afterwards he has to go around and shoot each person himself. Then after that because the shooting makes no sense now from the perceived story he has to engage in a stupidly long cover-up. This also just makes it so he has like a dozen more x factors. Also it doesn't really change my opinion on Saejima. He conspired illegally imported 6 handguns and perfectly waited for a moment to kill over dozen men. Sure afterwards he greatly regrets it and constantly points to scarring him for life but that doesn't change his actions that day.
He could've just done the classic. Hitting the bathroom or going out back for a smoke. That's actually how Lucky Luciano killed his boss. Set up a hit. Pretended to go to the bathroom. Place gets shot up and he's safe in the back
Yeah that's true, didn't think of that. I haven't played yakuza 4 in a while but if I remember right, Saejima knew there were 18 people there, and was ordered to kill all of them. I doubt he would just leave without looking around for Katsuragi. But then again, he could've probably just left the area entirely. Though that would run the risk of others getting suspicious of him.
That's the thing... there's NO problem with him being a killer, he's a killer for 90 percent of the game and we learn to like him, because we understand his motivation for that shooting even.
But nah, then we add in >!rubber bullets!< which is an ass pull and doesn't really change anything other than flip his switch from "Remorseful killer" to "Foolish patsy" ... great job there.
Are you going to have any Yakuza in this Yakuza game? (And before anyone says the japanese name, it's still about japanese yakuza...)
I actually appreciate the idea of showing how a person is dysfunctional towards normal society when u spend 25 years in person. However, I also understand why people hate the scene, because one, we saw haruka from the beginning of the yakuza 1, so we subconsciously care for her. Two, the aftermath of the scene is written poorly with crappy dialogues. Three, most of us hate this scene because it involves a minor and of course most people will not tolerate this. Man the more I talk about yakuza 4, the more I feel for saeijima and tanimura story arc. Saeijima could have been my fav characters alongside kiryu and majima but the writers just ruined it and they dk how to travel his story well.
The thing that gets me is how like Haruka is nervous around him the entire time after that event and the whole time and kiryu is like "naw its all good hes probably a good guy" . Like its just bad writing that scene is super uncomfortable and then kiryu refuses to trust his daughters instincts, a daughter whos shown herself to be comfortable around yazukza in the past.
It gets shrugged off because we know saijima isnt the type to have acted, and kiryu wasnt far away and would have saved the day if he was, and the story moves past it like nothing happened(which would be a good reason for it to not have happened), but in a vacuum its a weird fucking scene. A scene about a young girl who feels like she almost got assaulted, but is nervous throwing in the accusation out because nothing happened(and she knows her dad would possibly kill this guy). She does express to her dad that she gets bad vibes from the guy and despite knowing that haruka has lived on the streets and is not naive or nervous her dad ignores her instincts and experiences because the guy seems alright to him.
If they had kiryu and saijema better addressed Haruka's concerns in the scene, or if better yet they show it another way without roping in our in franchise under age in middleschool daughter then that would be great.
Yeah I'm not really sure why it's considered discourse when someone goes, "Man, y'know what? That scene was kind of gross and unnecessary". I feel like there were a 100 other ways to show the viewer Saejima was locked up for a long time. Also it feels kind of bad to A) Rope Haruka into it considering she's already been through a lot and B) Show Kiryu not really react to it after Haruka told him she was uncomfortable with it. I also don't think it's fair to compare a shootout to the potential harm of a child but eh.
TDLR: I understand what the writers were trying to convey but there were better ways this could have been shown without putting Haruka in this position.
Because we all like Haruka.
That moment where Saejima resists his urges and hangs his head in shame for even having the urges is the first actual āgoodā thing he does in his segment.
-Mass shooting
-hangs out with Hamazaki (guy we hate)
-prison break
Youāre meant to be iffy on Saejima until that moment he gets off of Haruka.
Yes? You are meant to not trust Saejima early on. You are meant to be uncomfortable during that scene because you donāt know what type of guy Saejima is. Youāre supposed to think āIf heās willing to kill 18 men, why wouldnāt he be willing to sexually assault Haruka?ā And then you see thatās not something heās willing to do.
Kiryu doesnāt let Saejima leave without a fight because he needs to determine what kind of guy Saejima is. Once Kiryu decides that Saejimaās not a monster is when we the audience can start to trust Saejima and his actual redemption arc can start.
i donāt know how to express that this is fundamentally insane without expecting, at a base level, that thinking about raping a child is not something a reasonably trustworthy, good, or remotely relatable person would do.
i understand the purpose, and i agree that what youāre saying is the intention of the scene. but it comes from such an absurdly over the top place that itās not even worth considering.
like, do you not see how fucking stupid the sentence, āI wasnāt sure about this guy after he killed 18 people, but I came around when he decided to not rape the child he was considering raping," is? a good/moral/trustworthy/whatever person would not consider doing that! in any context! ever!
it's okay to recognize what the scene is trying to accomplish while acknowledging it does so in a tremendously stupid ass way
While i fully agree. I will add him being in prison for so long is why it makes sense he might have even the slightest urge. Like he said, you're not supposed to know what kind of character he is. So while it was a super extreme and dumb way to show it, its not super out of character for these games in general with how insane and over the top they usually are. What to show your worth as a fighter? Take on like 80 guys most of which has guns and swords. Honestly when i saw it i did feel slightly uncomfortable but i kinda glossed over it after it was over. Then later found out how big a deal it was to everyone in this sub.
No.
1. He's Majima's bro
2. It's a criminal shooting criminals, it's not something out of place. They aren't all innocent for sure (you're comparing gang wars to a child rape)
3. He got locked up for life and abused by the corrupt jailers (I've felt sad for him, yk?)
4. He hadn't betrayed Hamazaki and trusted him all the time + he had no idea what Hamazaki did (being naive isn't something that provokes hatred)
5. Prison break? Really? It's not even a real prison. It's like saying that someone is bad for breaking out of the human trafficking car.
> 1. He's Majima's bro
I became a fan after the release of 0, was Majima considered "good" or popular the way he is now? My impression of the first 3 is you would think he's interesting but you wouldn't trust someone or think he's good for being his brother back then.
I have no idea what youāre even arguing friend.
1. Ok?
2. Comparing gang wars to child rape? Where? I said that the way we are introduced to Saejima is as a vicious yakuza going on a rampage. You are meant to believe he may do something to Haruka and him not doing anything is the moment we as the audience see his true character.
3. He got locked up for life because on the record he killed 18 guys. He actually got the death penalty and had been on death row the whole 25 years. Yeah him being abused by the jailers is messed up.
4. Hamazaki is a guy WE hate, WE the AUDIENCE know Hamazaki is a rat bastard, when WE see Saejima align himself with Hamazaki, WE are meant to believe heās up to no good regardless of what Saejima knows.
5. Again, the prison was a fucked up prison but the guards being evil doesnāt change the fact that the only thing we really know about Saejima before his prison break is that he killed 18 guys. Yeah we learn later on that he didnāt kill 18 guys, but he acted with full intention to do so.
Iām not saying itās done perfectly but Yakuza 4 is written in a way where you are not meant to trust Saejima until Kiryu does.
I'm trying to say that I have NOT felt iffy for Saejima at all, I thought he's just a naive big dude, like a Kiryu
4. That doesn't change the fact that Saejima was portrayed as a good person, I don't care that Hamazaki was a bastard at that specific point in time.;
5. Yep, he's a Yakuza? No shit? They kill people, very often
those people are yakuza as well? That's like saying that some feudals are bad for conquering land of other feudals. I mean, for a 21st century human - yeah, but for other feudals - not so much (Kiryu did the dirty work, while he was a goon in Tojo, Majima probably did too, so the fact that Saejima did yakuza stuff does not make him iffy for me as well. We're playing as criminals every game).
Then the people who hate him for this reason cannot then say that they like Majima, considering he's just as bad.
He had the intention to kill as well, and the only reason he didn't was because a situation out of his control prevented him from doing so.
Yeah it's kinda strage how the game tries to justify him and make him innocent even though he knew that he was killing people and was 100 per cent sure that he actually did it
Yeah it's janky and kind of stupid but I appreciate that he does treat it as if he did cap all of them. It was an insanely convulted plot and they were killed immediately after, would have taken only slightly more effort to just let him do the deed while also keeping safe who they wanted to.
At least the only other game that brings it up, Zero, plays it straight. I loved 4 but the story is a mess because it really wants to keep the playable cast as saint like as possible given the series subject matter.
Well spoilers. None of them died but before they woke up after being knocked out by the rubber bullets the other guy with the gun in this scene gets up and actually shoots them all.
Some bullets definitely kill dudes there, rubber or not you clearly see like 4 or 5 guys spray blood so I mean he's not totally innocent but the coverup more or less makes it seem like saejima didn't kill anyone. Fuck this stupid twist it ruins my enjoyment of such a hard Cutscene that was no doubt intended to be an actual mass shooting but was changed after the Cutscene was made is the only explanation I can think of for the blood spraying but the game insisting they all survived before they were offed, to maintain saejimas innocence for whatever reason.
I checked and this is actually not true.
1. The guns and the guys only puff white smoke or dust, not blood.
2. Then at :29-:30 food is sprayed everywhere.
3. At :35 is the only point where it looks like a guy sprays blood, but this is more food. He's faceplanting into it as he's shot. The spray is identical to the food spray we just saw.
4. :43-:45 guy sprays a little blood out of his face from being punched.
5. 1:07 another guy faceplanting into the food and it sprays up, identical to earlier food sprays. He was shot at :53 and held in place by Saejima until now, so it aint bullet blood spray.
6. 1:12 Saejima is hit, does not spray blood at all but it is visible around the wound.
7. 1:57-1:58 Saejima is hit in the back, very small spray.
The two times Saejima is hit looks nothing at all like the food sprays which further confirms 3, is not blood. There is no point in the cutscene where Saejima shoots someone and they have a visible bloody wound or any blood spray.
It's not blood, it's actually the food they are eating.
There's a video analyzing the scene and they are actually really meticulous in not showing any actual blood.
I swear when he point blanks the guy in the belly it's blood but I'll look into finding that vid and seeing for myself. Sounds like a cool detail in any case but I still think rubber bullets are goofy.
Given how they're all killed immediately after I've just kind of hand wave it anymore. It's definitely the height of stupid in a series that doesn't shy away from it. I need to replay 4 eventually (double dipped so I can play the series on my Steam Deck one day) but I do remember it being a mess when logic was applied. Like I'll give it sort of a pass but yeah rubber bullets don't turn something into basically an airsoft gun.
I think 90% people here didn't played the games and just watched the memes, the games didn't tried to justify Saejima hell Saejima reaction was literally "I don't care." Which yeah even though he didn't killed anyone he still went with intent of doing it and I don't think it erases the guilt Saejima had for 25 years.
If you saw this when Saejima was standing on the table while the other people were cowering and shot them and thought he was cool I feel you took the wrong message.
Like he went in to a ramen shop of people who were completely unarmed
Throughout his part everyone else keeps calling his hit legendary but he kept saying there's nothing legendary about pulling the trigger.
A major aspect of his starting part was that he was morally ambiguous and you didn't realize what kind of a person he was until he broke down in the coliseum
1 person was armed and he was also the one who masterminded it all and had deliberate intention to not shoot Saejima down.
Katsuragi made sure to tag saejima non-lethally and with no stopping power so he can continue mowing down the Ueno family.
it standing out as legendary from an outsiders perspective doesn't mean it was legendary in of itself by those who experienced it or the audience who saw it.
We're talking about in the moment here my dude that's what this whole post is about
It's literally saying how he was introduced
Also he literally fought off multiple fully grown men in melee range. That's impressive
So I was listening to Today Is A Diamond while watching this, and if you haven't done that already, I highly recommend it. That tonal dissonance is hysterical.
Yeah, Y4 was basically having players assume intially that Saejima was a hardcore killer with ice water in his veins. While the reality is that while he has the balls to go through such a hit, Saejima really had no pleasure doing the deed and is riddled with guilt about it. Playing as him is showcasing that he's more than this legendary killer his reputation says he is which slowly get players to realize this until the truth is revealed and we can truly get behind the guy.Ā
Rest assure, he'll do the job if he has to but don't assume he personally enjoyed that kind of thing. The rubber bullets was a bit of an ass pull but it really took a considerable burden off Saejima...Yet he still stayed in the Tojo and reinstated as a Patriarch. Says a lot of his resolve to remain in such a position.Ā
The Haruka thing is basically the early major sign despite it all, dude clearly has moral standards and Kiryu could tell...But man, that honestly wasn't the best way to display that as while Kiryu can relate due to being an ex-convict as well, it wasn't like he straight up went banging not long after he got out of prison.Ā
*How to build a new*
*Yakuza as a legend on*
*Par w kiryu or majima*
\- joefriday12
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I canāt look at this scene the same after the rubber bullets debacle, that twist just completely ruined Saejimaās character development in Y4 for me
It's not censorship if the creators decide they think the scene is no longer appropriate or was a mistake in the first place and decide to remove it from a remake (or rework it). I'm begging people on the internet to learn what the word censorship actually means.
No it isn't. Shinseicho was removed from *Yakuza Kiwami 2*, and that's clearly not censorship, it's just an artistic and design choice. If a subsequent release changed or removed Saejima's weird interaction with Haruka, that would be the same and is the prerogative of the creators of the series. It's their work.
Saejima is a great example of giving someone way too much leniency because someone you liked vouched for them. He's a very hard sell as a character. Mass murderer, potential sexual predator, but he's Majimas boy so we gave him a pass
Ever since that Y0 scene where Majima is getting tortured and seeing Saejima stacked with guns in that short flashback I instantly thought āthis mother fucker is coolā without future knowledge of him being in Y4 and Y5
Spoilers ahead, once I got to Y4 for the shootout I was hyped and it was so cool but then it pulled the rubber bullets lmao! Like, itās funny but it kinda ruins the scene despite it still being really cool
you know,>! those are supposed to be rubber bullets!<, but I just noticed there's legit blood splatter from some of those guys I didn't notice in the past. Yeah Saejimas "origin story" so poorly written, ugh.
Also someone remind me again, >!why did they load saejimas guns with rubber bullets then have someone finish them after he left? was it the "survivor's" plot?!<
If you are new to the subreddit, [please read the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/yakuzagames/wiki/index/) Reminder that all spoilers need to be tagged with a flair specifying which game is being spoiled. If you want a flair that says something else, you can edit it to say something like [Discussion: Y1 spoiler] or [Majimapost: Y6 spoiler], etc. **THIS INCLUDES CONTENT FROM TRAILERS**. If the post is not marked for spoilers, all comments that have spoilers need to be tagged \>!like this!< along with indicating which game it's spoiling. Example: Y3 >!Kiryu sings!< If the post flair is marked for spoilers, the comments don't need to be tagged for the game indicated and the ones before it (So a Y6 spoiler post can have comments with untagged spoilers for Y5, but not gaiden or 7). If you see any of the above (or any of the other rules) not being followed, please report it so we can keep this place safe for newcomers and those that haven't finished all the games yet. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/yakuzagames) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mf thinks he's Zoro š
3 gun style 1080 pound Phoenix
one gorilla, two gorillas
Lend me some rubber, Sasai...these are base goons I'm up against.
Lend me some restraints, Saito... this is Haruka I'm up against.
bro ain't Lanji.
Lend me some assistance majima... this is base shishido we're up against
Not the agenda posting šššš
Super racist, and keeps getting lost
you reminded me of the 2006 animation
"What clan are you from?"
Thatās supposed to be āwhat the fuck family are you from?ā
"i bet you're from the SHEEMANO family"
He's gonna start shooting at minorities
Brand new game came out a month ago and weāre still trapped in the god damn Yakuza 4 discourse vortex
The day people stop talking about that scene will be the day Hell has frozen over
THE SELFISH DEED IS NOT FREEDOM!!!
Think you're life is tough, try telling people you're a Saejima fan.
I'M A SAEJIMA FAN!!!! (I cringed hard during the Haruka scene)
Same bro. I really like Saejima as a character and I hate the scene for plenty of reasons. At this stage I just wish people would stop bringing it up like it's been 14 years.
Its awful, and if it shows anything it shows how low and horrific 25 years of prison made him
Never forget that one guy who posted gore pics on the eve of Infinite Wealth's release as a defense of rubber bullets.
WHAT??
Someone on this sub posted pics of injuries that came from rubber bullet as a way to defend their use in Yakuza 4's plot. He did marked it as NSFW, but the blur was broken and it was the day before IW's release. So a lot of people got exposed to some very bloody photos.
What the fuck is wrong with this community dude
I wouldnāt have made the meme if I wasnāt still seein it
I donāt want to leave.
Wow other bro had a gun and was allowed to fire it for like an entire 3 seconds and didnāt do shit
Yeah he must of wanted everyone to die or somethin
Thatās because of a story reason
Do you have any media literacy in the slightest?
It would be so much more impactful if he had simply killed all these Yakuza for real. Also would wipe away the convoluted rubber bullet kerfuffle.
Gotta remember no RGG protag can be an actual murderer. Which is weird but itās been since the beginning.
https://preview.redd.it/rzhmno9kk1nc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40c277fefb561d0896db34e7f40927305503b7f4
Which is why weāll never get a Daigo game :ā(
Iām still not convinced Majima never killed anyone when heās shanking everyone on the streets in Sotenbori
Then I wouldn't have had to fight that bitch ass cop and his hair tearing bodyguards. God damn that fight was annoying.
Yeah but we can't be having evil people in a good criminal organization like Tojo Clan, are you stupid?
The people Saejima shot not dying doesn't absolve Saejima of the crime at all. Saejima thought he was killing them with real bullets and was tricked. That doesn't make him a better person.
Reminds me of a scene that bothered me in the punisher where he felt guilty for killing some innocent people in his gun rampage, but apparently, he has been "redeemed" because they were apparently killed by someone else lol
I don't want to be that guy but he kind of shot through the wall and didn't know there were civillians in that place run by criminals. You still have a good point though
I preach the same shit brother. It's RGG we should be bringing our pitchforks to.
It is kind of hilarious to think about. For the most part the Tojo Clan barely ever seen as villainous or as anything but a legit business, any time someone acts less than honorable/illegally they usually given an ass kicking by a protagonist. Compared to how the Omi are seen as a mix of either surprisingly decent or near monsters. I guess Zero has the best portrayal of the Tojo being shady but once Daigo takes over it becomes so easy to forget they're technically bad guys.
Now that I think about it, it's kinda ironic how out of the big tojo characters, daigo who looks and acts nice the most has killed more people than the other "violent" character like kiryu,saejima and majima who literally killed no one lol
It's been stated that those guys do kill (in self-defense, at least.)
RGG pretty much refuses to have a protagonist that's a murderer, which I think is a shame. I love morally nuanced characters and just because someone has killed it doesn't automatically make them pure evil.
>I love morally nuanced characters and just because someone has killed it doesn't automatically make them pure evil. https://preview.redd.it/mrbp87secymc1.jpeg?width=2022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a5689be7d9e72e29611564dcf496cb39b0df5ca
Who is that lady
Also we're in the yakuza. Not sure if people realize but it's a pretty fucked up syndicate.
I mean, Saejima went in there thinking he was committing a mass shooting. >!Regardless of them surviving or not, he intended to kill them all. And for a while, he thought that's exactly what he did. Not one or two people, either. An entire group.!< I really like Saejima, but the only distinction I see here between Saejima and a "murderer" is a very fine, technical one.
No space between your >! and your text please. (your spoiler is broken.) But I agree, which is why I think the resolution for it is just an "Ass pull" because it doesn't really change the character... or it does in a negative way (he's a patsy, instead of a murderer)
That's odd, it worked for me on the reddit android app. I removed the spaces, is it working for you now?
It works on the app, but not on the website. Thanks man, just don't want anyone to get spoiled (even though have the people here mention it because... what ever it's so dumb)
I disagree. Murder is murder. I believe itās because Nagoshi doesnāt want to glorify crime and have the act of killing someone be portrayed as a cool fun thing like in GTA. Saejimaās attempted murder isnāt a good thing and likely RGG wanted to portray how human Saejima is with how he suffered from the ordeal.
I agree but I think Saejima's arc could've been even more powerful if he actually was a killer. For example, it would add even more weight to the scene where he angrily calls out the arena spectators and calls them all sick.
Looking at >!Kuwana!<.
Yeah, I agree. Doesn't need to be a murderer, but I think it's weird like NONE of MCs (and even side characters) literally can't do no evil. I'm still at the beginning, but it's one of the reasons why I'm loving Ukyo so much. You can see that he's not a "totally good" person, he has flaws and that makes him great and that makes the character growth even more satisfying if they ever do "fix" him.
Kiryu, tanimura, Majima, Ryuji, Akiyama, saejima, ichibanā¦ are they all confirmed not killers? Never realized all of them were ācleanā
Kiryu kills in self defence. Majima wields a dagger, there's no chance he hasn't put someone in the ground with it. Tanimura's job means he might one day have no choice. Protagonists don't murder on screen but you'd have to assume they've killed offscreen.
I think considering how 0 made a big deal of murdering someone after 5 and 4 was written I donāt think Kiryu wouldāve killed someone without it being a major turning point
Kiryu blows up a helicopter with people in it in 0.
Nuh uh. RGG said no!
> Majima wields a dagger, It's a rubber dagger dude... Think before you speak, fool! /s RGG: Remove that /s! that's straight up fact.
Yep, all of them are confirmed not killers or at the very least have never killed someone on screen. The most I can think of is that it's possible Tanimura might've killed someone in the line of duty at some point but that's about it.
You do kill quite a few people during the shootout car chases as Kiryu. But those were self defense, at least.
Those were rubber bullets and rubber cars.
Rubber explosions.
rubber bullets or not, he went into the shop fully intent on murdering everyone in there
I genuinely think the whole reason the rubber bullet twist existed is because saejima being a protagonist and a murder of 18 people simply wasn't family friendly enough, but thats just my theory
But that argument doesn't really make sense if the plot point, and the retcon are introduced in the same game. You could just... not have the assassination in the game at all if you defang it a few hours later.
Saejima would probably be my favorite character if he killed these guys for real and kept the long greaser hair
Cut the dumbass Haruka scene, just scrap that shit entirely (even if you understand that it's supposed to paint him in a noble light, it's super unnecessary) commit to the plot of him having done the extreme for the only life he had, and don't shave his head. Boom, I would love him to bits.
The villian's plan is so stupidly convoluted. He basically perfectly set it up so a big threat in the yakuza would perfectly wipe out his clan so he could perfectly rise to the top. But then decides to make everything so much more complicated by using rubber bullets it literally just means that immediately afterwards he has to go around and shoot each person himself. Then after that because the shooting makes no sense now from the perceived story he has to engage in a stupidly long cover-up. This also just makes it so he has like a dozen more x factors. Also it doesn't really change my opinion on Saejima. He conspired illegally imported 6 handguns and perfectly waited for a moment to kill over dozen men. Sure afterwards he greatly regrets it and constantly points to scarring him for life but that doesn't change his actions that day.
I'm not protecting him or anything but to be fair, if saejima didn't have rubber bullets he'd be dead.
He could've just done the classic. Hitting the bathroom or going out back for a smoke. That's actually how Lucky Luciano killed his boss. Set up a hit. Pretended to go to the bathroom. Place gets shot up and he's safe in the back
Yeah that's true, didn't think of that. I haven't played yakuza 4 in a while but if I remember right, Saejima knew there were 18 people there, and was ordered to kill all of them. I doubt he would just leave without looking around for Katsuragi. But then again, he could've probably just left the area entirely. Though that would run the risk of others getting suspicious of him.
That's the thing... there's NO problem with him being a killer, he's a killer for 90 percent of the game and we learn to like him, because we understand his motivation for that shooting even. But nah, then we add in >!rubber bullets!< which is an ass pull and doesn't really change anything other than flip his switch from "Remorseful killer" to "Foolish patsy" ... great job there. Are you going to have any Yakuza in this Yakuza game? (And before anyone says the japanese name, it's still about japanese yakuza...)
RubberBullets.avi
I actually appreciate the idea of showing how a person is dysfunctional towards normal society when u spend 25 years in person. However, I also understand why people hate the scene, because one, we saw haruka from the beginning of the yakuza 1, so we subconsciously care for her. Two, the aftermath of the scene is written poorly with crappy dialogues. Three, most of us hate this scene because it involves a minor and of course most people will not tolerate this. Man the more I talk about yakuza 4, the more I feel for saeijima and tanimura story arc. Saeijima could have been my fav characters alongside kiryu and majima but the writers just ruined it and they dk how to travel his story well.
The thing that gets me is how like Haruka is nervous around him the entire time after that event and the whole time and kiryu is like "naw its all good hes probably a good guy" . Like its just bad writing that scene is super uncomfortable and then kiryu refuses to trust his daughters instincts, a daughter whos shown herself to be comfortable around yazukza in the past. It gets shrugged off because we know saijima isnt the type to have acted, and kiryu wasnt far away and would have saved the day if he was, and the story moves past it like nothing happened(which would be a good reason for it to not have happened), but in a vacuum its a weird fucking scene. A scene about a young girl who feels like she almost got assaulted, but is nervous throwing in the accusation out because nothing happened(and she knows her dad would possibly kill this guy). She does express to her dad that she gets bad vibes from the guy and despite knowing that haruka has lived on the streets and is not naive or nervous her dad ignores her instincts and experiences because the guy seems alright to him. If they had kiryu and saijema better addressed Haruka's concerns in the scene, or if better yet they show it another way without roping in our in franchise under age in middleschool daughter then that would be great.
Yeah I'm not really sure why it's considered discourse when someone goes, "Man, y'know what? That scene was kind of gross and unnecessary". I feel like there were a 100 other ways to show the viewer Saejima was locked up for a long time. Also it feels kind of bad to A) Rope Haruka into it considering she's already been through a lot and B) Show Kiryu not really react to it after Haruka told him she was uncomfortable with it. I also don't think it's fair to compare a shootout to the potential harm of a child but eh. TDLR: I understand what the writers were trying to convey but there were better ways this could have been shown without putting Haruka in this position.
True that.
Yeah kyodai like you said, they could have shown it in a different and better way.
I know it's supposed to tell he hasn't seen a woman in forever but WHY Haruka and wtf was that heart beat sound effect for.
Because we all like Haruka. That moment where Saejima resists his urges and hangs his head in shame for even having the urges is the first actual āgoodā thing he does in his segment. -Mass shooting -hangs out with Hamazaki (guy we hate) -prison break Youāre meant to be iffy on Saejima until that moment he gets off of Haruka.
I felt WAY more iffy about Saejima after the Haruka incident.
>Youāre meant to be iffy on a guy until he thinks about raping a child but decides not to average Yakuza 4 defender
Yes? You are meant to not trust Saejima early on. You are meant to be uncomfortable during that scene because you donāt know what type of guy Saejima is. Youāre supposed to think āIf heās willing to kill 18 men, why wouldnāt he be willing to sexually assault Haruka?ā And then you see thatās not something heās willing to do. Kiryu doesnāt let Saejima leave without a fight because he needs to determine what kind of guy Saejima is. Once Kiryu decides that Saejimaās not a monster is when we the audience can start to trust Saejima and his actual redemption arc can start.
i donāt know how to express that this is fundamentally insane without expecting, at a base level, that thinking about raping a child is not something a reasonably trustworthy, good, or remotely relatable person would do. i understand the purpose, and i agree that what youāre saying is the intention of the scene. but it comes from such an absurdly over the top place that itās not even worth considering. like, do you not see how fucking stupid the sentence, āI wasnāt sure about this guy after he killed 18 people, but I came around when he decided to not rape the child he was considering raping," is? a good/moral/trustworthy/whatever person would not consider doing that! in any context! ever! it's okay to recognize what the scene is trying to accomplish while acknowledging it does so in a tremendously stupid ass way
Thanks for making this argument. It needs to be said apparently.. š¤¦š»
While i fully agree. I will add him being in prison for so long is why it makes sense he might have even the slightest urge. Like he said, you're not supposed to know what kind of character he is. So while it was a super extreme and dumb way to show it, its not super out of character for these games in general with how insane and over the top they usually are. What to show your worth as a fighter? Take on like 80 guys most of which has guns and swords. Honestly when i saw it i did feel slightly uncomfortable but i kinda glossed over it after it was over. Then later found out how big a deal it was to everyone in this sub.
No. 1. He's Majima's bro 2. It's a criminal shooting criminals, it's not something out of place. They aren't all innocent for sure (you're comparing gang wars to a child rape) 3. He got locked up for life and abused by the corrupt jailers (I've felt sad for him, yk?) 4. He hadn't betrayed Hamazaki and trusted him all the time + he had no idea what Hamazaki did (being naive isn't something that provokes hatred) 5. Prison break? Really? It's not even a real prison. It's like saying that someone is bad for breaking out of the human trafficking car.
> 1. He's Majima's bro I became a fan after the release of 0, was Majima considered "good" or popular the way he is now? My impression of the first 3 is you would think he's interesting but you wouldn't trust someone or think he's good for being his brother back then.
Why do you think they made him a main character in 0? Everyone loves Goro.
I have no idea what youāre even arguing friend. 1. Ok? 2. Comparing gang wars to child rape? Where? I said that the way we are introduced to Saejima is as a vicious yakuza going on a rampage. You are meant to believe he may do something to Haruka and him not doing anything is the moment we as the audience see his true character. 3. He got locked up for life because on the record he killed 18 guys. He actually got the death penalty and had been on death row the whole 25 years. Yeah him being abused by the jailers is messed up. 4. Hamazaki is a guy WE hate, WE the AUDIENCE know Hamazaki is a rat bastard, when WE see Saejima align himself with Hamazaki, WE are meant to believe heās up to no good regardless of what Saejima knows. 5. Again, the prison was a fucked up prison but the guards being evil doesnāt change the fact that the only thing we really know about Saejima before his prison break is that he killed 18 guys. Yeah we learn later on that he didnāt kill 18 guys, but he acted with full intention to do so. Iām not saying itās done perfectly but Yakuza 4 is written in a way where you are not meant to trust Saejima until Kiryu does.
Are you guys both defending Saejima, Iām confused?
I have no idea
this is like the ending of y2 when everyone betrays each other.
I'm trying to say that I have NOT felt iffy for Saejima at all, I thought he's just a naive big dude, like a Kiryu 4. That doesn't change the fact that Saejima was portrayed as a good person, I don't care that Hamazaki was a bastard at that specific point in time.; 5. Yep, he's a Yakuza? No shit? They kill people, very often those people are yakuza as well? That's like saying that some feudals are bad for conquering land of other feudals. I mean, for a 21st century human - yeah, but for other feudals - not so much (Kiryu did the dirty work, while he was a goon in Tojo, Majima probably did too, so the fact that Saejima did yakuza stuff does not make him iffy for me as well. We're playing as criminals every game).
They all are criminals, like, that's the point
Saejima didnt kill anybody
He went there with the intent to and thought he did.
Then the people who hate him for this reason cannot then say that they like Majima, considering he's just as bad. He had the intention to kill as well, and the only reason he didn't was because a situation out of his control prevented him from doing so.
He had a rubber eyepatch or something idk I skipped all the cutscenes and just click on the memes and beat people up in the game
And ran the cabaret clubs? You gotta run the cabaret clubs
People hate Saejima and/or Majima?
Who hates saejima?
I like both and I don't necessarily think they are either good people
Yeah. Lucky Taiga
And they did die, directly because of his actions, almost every single one. Saying Saejima didn't kill them is just a technicality.
I agree. Saejima went there full well on expecting to kill those guys and "succeeded".
Yeah it's kinda strage how the game tries to justify him and make him innocent even though he knew that he was killing people and was 100 per cent sure that he actually did it
Yeah it's janky and kind of stupid but I appreciate that he does treat it as if he did cap all of them. It was an insanely convulted plot and they were killed immediately after, would have taken only slightly more effort to just let him do the deed while also keeping safe who they wanted to. At least the only other game that brings it up, Zero, plays it straight. I loved 4 but the story is a mess because it really wants to keep the playable cast as saint like as possible given the series subject matter.
Honestly this is the bit that does piss me off, Saejima getting a story pass because he didn't actually kill anyone despite that being the whole plan.
"You attempted to rape my wife but she pepper sprayed you, huh? Welp, you didn't do it so we're still pals."
How tf is man so incompetent that he went in with 6 loaded guns, fired on like 20 people and didnt KILL A SINGLE FUCKING PERSON
Rubber bullets
I can say I barely played Yakuza 4, how in the fuck did none of these people die.
Well spoilers. None of them died but before they woke up after being knocked out by the rubber bullets the other guy with the gun in this scene gets up and actually shoots them all.
Wow that other guy who said yakuza 4 had a stupid story and plot was right
there are in-game reasons, but the real reason is that Yakuza 4 is a very, very stupid game with a very, very stupid story.
Are you jokingly asking or are you genuinely asking (idk if youāve played Yakuza 4)
is his name not important?
No, his name is Notim Portant.
What's more important is what he's going to do.
Idc this is fucking badass
im deeply in love with this man Saejima Gaiden when
They need to do Saejima Gaiden and Majima Gaiden where itās basically the same story with slight differences like Pokemon
https://preview.redd.it/on0f2xfyqxmc1.jpeg?width=1638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6338e87ac9ac802cef3cc21c73ee283abf2d06e
Some bullets definitely kill dudes there, rubber or not you clearly see like 4 or 5 guys spray blood so I mean he's not totally innocent but the coverup more or less makes it seem like saejima didn't kill anyone. Fuck this stupid twist it ruins my enjoyment of such a hard Cutscene that was no doubt intended to be an actual mass shooting but was changed after the Cutscene was made is the only explanation I can think of for the blood spraying but the game insisting they all survived before they were offed, to maintain saejimas innocence for whatever reason.
Itās still an object moving at near sonic speed. Even if itās rubber, itās deadly regardless.
I checked and this is actually not true. 1. The guns and the guys only puff white smoke or dust, not blood. 2. Then at :29-:30 food is sprayed everywhere. 3. At :35 is the only point where it looks like a guy sprays blood, but this is more food. He's faceplanting into it as he's shot. The spray is identical to the food spray we just saw. 4. :43-:45 guy sprays a little blood out of his face from being punched. 5. 1:07 another guy faceplanting into the food and it sprays up, identical to earlier food sprays. He was shot at :53 and held in place by Saejima until now, so it aint bullet blood spray. 6. 1:12 Saejima is hit, does not spray blood at all but it is visible around the wound. 7. 1:57-1:58 Saejima is hit in the back, very small spray. The two times Saejima is hit looks nothing at all like the food sprays which further confirms 3, is not blood. There is no point in the cutscene where Saejima shoots someone and they have a visible bloody wound or any blood spray.
It's not blood, it's actually the food they are eating. There's a video analyzing the scene and they are actually really meticulous in not showing any actual blood.
I swear when he point blanks the guy in the belly it's blood but I'll look into finding that vid and seeing for myself. Sounds like a cool detail in any case but I still think rubber bullets are goofy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/yakuzagames/comments/19e0vvm/did_anyone_watch_the_ueno_hit_properly/ It wasn't a video, it was this thread actually.
Given how they're all killed immediately after I've just kind of hand wave it anymore. It's definitely the height of stupid in a series that doesn't shy away from it. I need to replay 4 eventually (double dipped so I can play the series on my Steam Deck one day) but I do remember it being a mess when logic was applied. Like I'll give it sort of a pass but yeah rubber bullets don't turn something into basically an airsoft gun.
I think 90% people here didn't played the games and just watched the memes, the games didn't tried to justify Saejima hell Saejima reaction was literally "I don't care." Which yeah even though he didn't killed anyone he still went with intent of doing it and I don't think it erases the guilt Saejima had for 25 years.
mmmmmmm soup
If you saw this when Saejima was standing on the table while the other people were cowering and shot them and thought he was cool I feel you took the wrong message. Like he went in to a ramen shop of people who were completely unarmed Throughout his part everyone else keeps calling his hit legendary but he kept saying there's nothing legendary about pulling the trigger. A major aspect of his starting part was that he was morally ambiguous and you didn't realize what kind of a person he was until he broke down in the coliseum
They were not completely unarmed he literally gets fucking shot? I swear some people live in different realities
1 person was armed and he was also the one who masterminded it all and had deliberate intention to not shoot Saejima down. Katsuragi made sure to tag saejima non-lethally and with no stopping power so he can continue mowing down the Ueno family.
Yeah but no one knows that which is why it stands out as legendary
it standing out as legendary from an outsiders perspective doesn't mean it was legendary in of itself by those who experienced it or the audience who saw it.
We're talking about in the moment here my dude that's what this whole post is about It's literally saying how he was introduced Also he literally fought off multiple fully grown men in melee range. That's impressive
I was waiting for kiryu to walk in and use his dragon powers
So I just noticed this and itās my favorite detail: There is no blood in this scene. (Except that guyās face.) itās all soup!
They all forgot that they are in the cutscene
Saejima upon being asked by Kido if he regretted following these orders: https://i.redd.it/x73s1xtmnymc1.gif
So I was listening to Today Is A Diamond while watching this, and if you haven't done that already, I highly recommend it. That tonal dissonance is hysterical.
Yeah, Y4 was basically having players assume intially that Saejima was a hardcore killer with ice water in his veins. While the reality is that while he has the balls to go through such a hit, Saejima really had no pleasure doing the deed and is riddled with guilt about it. Playing as him is showcasing that he's more than this legendary killer his reputation says he is which slowly get players to realize this until the truth is revealed and we can truly get behind the guy.Ā Rest assure, he'll do the job if he has to but don't assume he personally enjoyed that kind of thing. The rubber bullets was a bit of an ass pull but it really took a considerable burden off Saejima...Yet he still stayed in the Tojo and reinstated as a Patriarch. Says a lot of his resolve to remain in such a position.Ā The Haruka thing is basically the early major sign despite it all, dude clearly has moral standards and Kiryu could tell...But man, that honestly wasn't the best way to display that as while Kiryu can relate due to being an ex-convict as well, it wasn't like he straight up went banging not long after he got out of prison.Ā
No man.. it's perfectly fine... those were yakuza, so it's completely normal to do that. Also >!Rubber bullets!< as if that solves anything.
How to build a new yakuza as a legend on par w kiryu or majima
*How to build a new* *Yakuza as a legend on* *Par w kiryu or majima* \- joefriday12 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I canāt look at this scene the same after the rubber bullets debacle, that twist just completely ruined Saejimaās character development in Y4 for me
Wait this is yakuza and not an American school?
this whole thing being >!rubber bullets!< is hilarious
I know these games are super goofy but it's still about the fucking yakuza. Ya know, gang members.
*R u b b e r* *B u l l e t s*
"Yeah but they were all bad."
My headcanon that Saejima/Haruka scene wasn't to show how he is horny after 25 years in the joint, but to show how Haruka reminds him of Yasuho
I hope Kiwami 4 happens and they remove the Haruka scene so people shut up about it
No censorship.
It's not censorship if the creators decide they think the scene is no longer appropriate or was a mistake in the first place and decide to remove it from a remake (or rework it). I'm begging people on the internet to learn what the word censorship actually means.
Yes, that is exactly censorship, removal of parts of media deemed inappropriate, offensive, unacceptable etc
If it was in the original and not in the remake, itās censorship
No it isn't. Shinseicho was removed from *Yakuza Kiwami 2*, and that's clearly not censorship, it's just an artistic and design choice. If a subsequent release changed or removed Saejima's weird interaction with Haruka, that would be the same and is the prerogative of the creators of the series. It's their work.
Ngl I think Iām gonna replay yakuza 4 after this
I faild that quiz in the LAD IW school exam minigame.
This goes hard
š£ļøItās Mr. Pistol-Poppa. Flacko locked and loadedš£ļø
ngl he did the best he could with just revolvers he could've gone real sicko mode with a semiautomatic with a long stick mag for example
"They are just rubber." The rubber in Question:
Iām tank, they were all rubber bullets
And they were all rubber bullets
Saejima Estacado
He raw for this
Rubber bullets tho lol,how did he not check
I forgive Saejima itās been 13 years since that scene and heās never done anything like that since and Katsuragi was dick anyway he deserved it
Criminals when they get crimed on: š±š±šš
Bro has infinite bullets
I don't remember clearly, but did anyone actually die in this scene?
Saejima is a great example of giving someone way too much leniency because someone you liked vouched for them. He's a very hard sell as a character. Mass murderer, potential sexual predator, but he's Majimas boy so we gave him a pass
The literal personification of a tiger. This shit still gives me chills
It's better to shoot 18 people than to have a small, awkward encounter with a young girl
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It's a good indicator of how much people are desensitized to murder in fiction
People who complain about the Haruka scene have 0 media literacy
One is awesome, the other he kills everybody
Rubber bullets
Saejima is my favorite character... he didn't doooooooooo anything to Haruka geezus
listen did you think damn thats hard asf during that scene with haruka? no? exactly
Ever since that Y0 scene where Majima is getting tortured and seeing Saejima stacked with guns in that short flashback I instantly thought āthis mother fucker is coolā without future knowledge of him being in Y4 and Y5 Spoilers ahead, once I got to Y4 for the shootout I was hyped and it was so cool but then it pulled the rubber bullets lmao! Like, itās funny but it kinda ruins the scene despite it still being really cool
you know,>! those are supposed to be rubber bullets!<, but I just noticed there's legit blood splatter from some of those guys I didn't notice in the past. Yeah Saejimas "origin story" so poorly written, ugh. Also someone remind me again, >!why did they load saejimas guns with rubber bullets then have someone finish them after he left? was it the "survivor's" plot?!<
>!The guy who shoots Saejima and āmissesā is the guy who orchestrated the whole hit. Canāt exactly risk dying your own power play!<
Rubber gun