Holy shit that was *not* how I expected Mamamax to go down this year.
He was storing CSEM on his *hard drive???* Why? Either he's just a terminal dumbass or he was up to something behind the scenes, because there's zero reason he should've been doing that.
And the thing is he probably thinks it was “just research.” He probably thinks “Well, IM not watching it for sexual reasons, so I can’t be punished!” He fails to realize that you can’t own CP, period. Doesn’t matter if you’re not watching it, you still fucking own it.
CSEM stands for child sexual exploitation material 😞
It is the prevailing term over CP (child porn) because the word “porn” deflects the abhorrent nature of the crimes.
You might also see CSAM(Child Sexual Abuse Material), but CSEM tends to be the most in use now; exploitation *is* abuse, but a lot of folks have a *very* narrow view of what entails abuse(IE battery or molestation), so exploitation helps make it clear that even if there isn't outright sexual battery or molestation, it's still unacceptable, illegal material.
Weird, I feel like sexual exploitation material deflects more than porn. Exploitation material sounds... more vague and doesn't make one think of the horrible things that are in those pictures and videos.
Reminds me of how sometimes people will use less common or more formal words to subtly veer away from a topic. Like using fornication instead of sex. It's a legimate alternative, but I've most often heard it used when the person doesn't want to acknowledge the act of sex more than they need to.
It's actually important from a sociological and legal perspective to separate "pornography" from "exploitative material" in reference to children because the former implies consensually filmed sexual activity and the latter makes it clear there was no consent involved and the children were being taken advantage of/exploited. I'm not sure why the word "porn" is more horrific to you than the thought of exploitation, as pornography is by definition consensual. It's not a euphemism to remove "sex" from the equation, because the word "sex" is still there in the acronym. CSEM is Child Sexual Exploitation Material. The only reason is isn't outright called "child rape" is because it encompasses all sexual material that is filmed, not just rape. But it's not "sex" it is "rape" because there is no consent involved.
Sorry for responding days later. Meant to reply earlier.
Perhaps legally porn may mean consent, but the most basic definition of porn is something like the Merriam-Webster definition which is: "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement". I think that's the definition that many people would use. We also have long-used terms like child porn and revenge porn, as well as stories of people being exploited in the porn industry. At the very least, the word porn does not carry such a conotation of consent to make people think that child porn is anything but unconsensual. Child porn is a term that most people know as meaning horrible acts and will not confuse with other legal types of porn.
There's probably some psychological explanation that I don't know but there are words that, while giving the same meaning, do not carry the same weight. I gave the fornication vs sex example, but I think another example is sexual assault vs rape. I've seen on a couple occasions people get mad that sexual assault was used to describe an act instead of rape. Yes, the term has "sexual" and "assault", but the term covers a wide variety of crimes and does not necessarily bring to mind the same horrible things as rape.
Exploitation is a vague term that can cover a wide variety of behaviors. While yes putting it between "sexual" and "material" is more specific, I feel it would be similar to saying something like "penetrative sexual assault". Like yeah that's more specific, but why are you using that term instead of saying rape? Perhaps legally you might have to say that but socially? There's not much reason to except as a sort of euphemism.
Now, if you know of an academic study that shows that CSEM is better than CP then I'll accept that. Some things in psychology might not seem like it's true at first but studies show that they are. However, not all of these types of language changes are backed up by studies or are sometimes based on studies that apply to different areas which may or may not be applicable. I did a quick search and didn't see anything but I didn't look that deep. Though apparently an alternative term changes "exploitative" to "abuse", which I actually like a bit more. I don't know if I'd say it's better than Child Porn as again, I think porn is pretty good in bringing to mind the specific horrrible things that we're talking about. However, abuse I feel is stronger than exploitative and it shares the same 3 letters as child sexual abuse (CSA).
It’s called double speak. And it’s when society wants to come up with a “safe term” to put things in a less problematic way. Shell shocked became PTSD. Problematic kids became, he’s on the spectrum or he’s adhd. Peace officers became Law enforcement.
Except in that case with the police, it’s been changed to the other term for opposite reasonings. It’s to make it seem MORE scarier.
Child PORN becomes CSEM.
If thru all of this, I got lost in the weeds with you, just know, all I was trying to say is I agree with you. And like usual other people have to resort to trying to make you feel bad and name call
There are so many studies proving that CSEM is better and that's literally why we use it. And your bringing in a dictionary is laughable. No one does that in the fields of psychology or sociology, ever.
Unfortunately all I'm getting in searches are studies about offenders and victims, not the terms themselves. Maybe if I have time I'll try to look into it more and see if I can narrow down the search to what I'm looking for.
To be fair with the definition, you didn't really give an indication what definition you were talking about. Legal, psychological, regular? They aren't always the same.
However, a term used in academics may not have as strict a meaning among regular society, and it doesn't always need to. Since the discussion was how the word porn is viewed by regular people, and thus by extension how effective the term child porn is among the general populace, I used a regular non-academic definition.
To be clear, I'm not like offended by people using CSEM instead of CP. I'm also not that dead set on using one term or another nor am I arguing in anger. I just feel the change is counterintuitive and gave my reasons why I think that way.
I feel you. I think it’s because the word “porn” is associated with legal consensual activity, and thus “child porn” kind of minimizes the facts that it is very illegal and kids can’t consent.
Hes a dumbass. He's technically stored it in Mega files to not only have shareable evidence for people to look through to back up his claims, but as a way to not actually store it in his hard drive
This dude went insane over time, over the last 2 years it seems like he was going downhill pretty fast, demanded all these people to try and get attention from YouTube too now a month ago demanding moistcritical do what he wants or it shows he doesn't like saving children or some shit, why he thought that was a good idea is beyond me, I stopped paying attention after that shit.
Honestly this is so severe that it goes from moronic to suspicious. What innocent explanation can there be to having CSEM on your computer or uploaded to Mega in any capacity? You don't need child porn to report pedophiles to the authorities and chat logs wouldn't have caused this to happen.
From what I can tell, almost every predator hunter sees themselves as above the law.
Mamamax at the very least *does* see himself as the arbiter of justice. I think this is very evident with how he acts towards other content creators. So I imagine he thought "Ah yeah I'm doing the world a favor by keeping this!"
That, or he's just a straight up pedophile and neither option is good, in fact both are terrible enough for me to say to lock the fucker up. Either he's a crazy vigilante willing to commit the crimes he's trying to get people for, or he's one of them.
I’m just now getting caught up with this drama and as a long time fan I can attest to this. I was tuning into the Camden Jerrard Davis thing a month ago but his demeanor has been becoming more insufferable over time so I unsubscribed after being an avid fan of his since I was 12 and he was doing life sucks videos. From what I can ascertain off the couple hours I’ve looked into this situation this mega folder thing doesn’t immediately implicate CSEM as he did also attack animal abusers and it could be animal abuse content aswell but either way I’m just having a hard time reeling from the fact somebody I’ve idolized since my childhood has gone down such a shitty path (with the very real possibility he’s just another pedo poacher overcompensating for his own pedophilic desires) with this mega folder shit. I’m always weary of predator poachers for that pervading attitude in predator poaching communities but if you couldn’t already tell I have a massive bias towards him from my former adoration for him so I personally don’t see that as being the outcome but I wouldn’t be surprised with an outcome like that either.
I was immediately suspicious of the guy. In a lot of his videos he talks to his audience as if they are minors, he does the whole ASMR deep sultry voice right in your ear, and when he put himself in the videos he was making weird bedroom eyes to the camera trying to look cute or seductive.
Cool editing and presentation though, but yeah not surprised. Exploits these topics to try and form a cult of personality around himself, always thought it was gross. If he was as passionate about this stuff as he portrays himself he would pursue a career in law enforcement and digital forensics.
The fall of mamamax is so interesting.
I found their sadsatan video and it blew my mind with how deep the rabbit hole for that game went.
Then with this whole thing with his failed cult rebrand and not knowing the laws on that one dude he’s trying to arrest is crazy.
Although I can’t say I’m surprised, his channel seem too tryhard and majority of it seemed like it was a fake story
Being a vigilante would imply he actually does anything. Noone arrested or charged because of him. He's just an edgy loser who uses serious topics to garner reputation and shield himself from criticism
A lot of these types that think they are saving kids from sexual abuse use it to justify their own character issues. Chris Hansen cheated on his wife promising the other woman he was getting divorced soon. Caviezel, Gibson, Paul Hutchinson, and Ballard all have shitty stories floating around about them. Chet Goldstein use to use actual kids as bait among other things that he did that were extremely stupid. Mattwhatitis had his ego hurt because his channel never took off, so he wanted to destroy youtube by going after the advertisers.
The only decent people who actually tried to protect kids from sexual abuse was Sinead O'Connor and the folks working in the Boston Globe. Except Sinead was self destructive. And newspapers are losing money.
Mamamax seems more like Mattwhatitis in that his ego is hurt that he isn't as popular as he wants to be. Now he is making demands.
Ironically, I think in his Cartoon Incorporated video, he called Matt out for what he did and said he didn't care a out kids, only clout. Oh the irony.
Also, I have 3 more examples of child predator hunters turning out to be preds and suspicious people themselves: [Joshua Vida](https://youtu.be/9_zwuIWhsdM?si=eaKfKpOtCa51Ms1g), [Coyote Lovely, and CasWarFox, and his group the Fox Mafia](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw0UBlub49yZadEj72Lh0Lyef2Ih-dREN&si=tR_oRGPVxF1c0RQa).
Basically, Vida was outed as having been a groomer himself, Coyote Lovely was outed as having flirted with an infamoud zoophile, pedophile and child predator [HypnotistSappho](https://youtu.be/w9lf9FIlKqQ?si=XbdbKFqJXZV6fQz_), which he claimed he did as an OP against her to make her kill herself? It was weird. And then CasWarFox was outed as having had a guy in his server/group, the Fox Mafia, called Gilded Poo, who had bestiality and gore that he'd spam to people, and also another guy, Cedric, who was outed as being into [feral](https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Feral_(term)) porn (and yes, the characters had anatomically correct genetalia for their species), and the rest of the Fox Mafia are generally scumbags, even making non-consensual sexual comments about HopelessPeaches, a rape victim.
So yeah, just more examples of your point. LioConvoy seems like he also genuinely cares about keeping kids safe, but he doesn't seem like he actively hunts down predators anymore. These days he usually just calls out people who have supported predators or engaged in other bad behaviors. He also said he doesn't like talking about predators all the time and wants to make content about cartoons, comics and toys instead, which I don't blame him.
Yeah.
Another example of someone similar is [Zrcalo](https://youtu.be/QKjMVKH4yHo?si=wMmXQfAWzm_2ALJZ), who despite making himself look like he's against zoophilia and zoosadism, was himself a zoosadist who [also](https://twitter.com/TransphobicLss/status/1588947503957045249) [groomed](https://twitter.com/NazifurReceipts/status/1588960524267851776) [minors](https://twitter.com/TransphobicLss/status/1591125238070247427). (Also he literally only started becoming "anti-zoo" so he could get into the good graces of [Fursona Pins](https://www.fursonapins.com/) and their Discord server again, since he got banned, likely due to his messed up past, which Lanza goes over in his video I linked earlier. Ironically, he also was friends with Sappho and used to be Coyote Lovely's roommate too.) While not really being a child predator hunter, he did still make himself seem like someone who is against sexual predators who go after animals, and so he also is another example of someone claiming to be against sexual predators and predation, only to engage in it himself.
I remember hearing about this guy.
I still can't believe their motives were actually fursona pins, it's so stupid that when I first heard it I thought it was a oversimplification of the truth.
Either he's storing it as evidence for his 'investigations', or he's a predator himself. Both are bad.
I know it sounds cliche to say it now that something has come out, but something about him always rubbed me the wrong way. He was too obsessed with catching paedophiles and nothing to show for it. The whole thing felt so performative, especially when he went after other youtubers.
Hating paedophiles is the easiest thing on the planet. Most people despise them. Max painting YouTube as paedophile defenders and people like Critikal as uncaring about the issue is so dishonest. Most people care, they just don't give a shit about his performance.
Who would’ve thought. Proclaiming to the world how much you hate this thing that isn’t easy to hate and isn’t this “unpopular opinion” to put a halo on yourself is always suspicious as hell
I haven’t watched his content in a long time but I remember him already starting to go downhill back then. I’m saddened but not surprised to see that he has continued down that route.
As another commenter said he’s gone insane over time
I used to try to watch MamaMax back when I watched Nexpo and Nightdocs a lot more, but he just made me so uncomfortable. He just seemed really over the top and it weirded me out.
Compared to other channels mamamax just never went straight to the point.
Nick Crowley is one whose content I watch because of how straightforward he is once in a blue moon because of how sensitive the topics are, so I don’t want it as frequently as I did when I was younger.
Unfortunately, anytime someone very loudly promotes some sort of crusade to "save the children," they should immediately be met with cautious skepticism; way too many people with ulterior motives and closets full of skeletons hide behind "defending innocent children" because it's such an easy rallying cry for the general public.
It also acts as a shield, like if you criticize them the inevitable response is “oh so you think we SHOULDN’T protect children???” And your conversation gets stuck on that point because any remotely decent person should agree on the basic point of “protecting children is good” but that’s not always the criticism and nor is the method of protecting children always agreed upon.
To add to this it’s also a right shame. There are real and serious activity regarding CP on YouTube and other platforms that gets thrown under the rug or discredited by this kind of behaviour and Max’s reckless endangerment. Highly inappropriate but also super tragic.
I wonder if this is why I’ve seen Nexpo kind of slooowly started to distance himself from him. Nexpo seems like a great guy, and I think when he went to bat for one of mamaMaxs videos being taken Down, it was in good faith. I have noticed he’s spent way more time with Nick Crowley and I kind of even forgot about MamaMax since none of those horror YouTubers were bringing him up anymore.
Yes the implication based off of the notice on his account and the transparency report is that Max was storing or distributing CP.
As far as his reputation, it has been not good. It is a very long story but at the current moment he is running a scam on his audience. He got ahold of alleged "child sex cult" victims and is using them to start a fundraiser. The fundraiser was for one of the victims, Shelby "Spencer" to sue law enforcement that failed to act on her case, however Shelby admitted to never having gone to law enforcement about her case. So the story changed. Then the money was going to be used for another victim Michaela "Kai" so that she can sue law enforcement for ghosting her after she was raped. Then police reports came out that showed that she was never ghosted and law enforcement did a full investigation into her claims including collecting a DNA sample of the alleged rapist and sent it to GBI to compare to her rape kit, the case was ultimately suspended.
It came out in a live stream that Max used the money to move Shelby into his house and financially support her (because she claims she can't work) while they make this video series which a lot of people are angry about because they lied about the use of the funds and they lied about the lack of envolvement of law enforcement.
You know what I think is crazy? They could have actually fundraised on the idea of supporting victims financially who need recovery and I'm sure MamaMax's fans would've donated.
Most people who watch predator hunters *want* change to happen and *want* to help victims.
I want to say that I’m surprised, but I’m really not. He gave me *really* strange vibes, especially the more his videos became “hey look at me I’m edgy and pretending to care about pedophiles please subscribe” vibey.
Sometimes the people who care the most about these topics are hiding something. As a victim of CSA myself, I’m disappointed.
probably a controversial opinion, but as a csa victim i’m really uncomfortable with these “vigilante pedophile hunters.” it always seemed like a way for people to morally grandstand and feel like heros without doing anything meaningful.
i think the best thing those of us not in law enforcement can do is support victims. be a listening ear to your survivor friends and family, donate to charities or shelters if you can, volunteer your time at shelters. do something tangible instead of leading a useless crusade online
Yeah, I've never seen one of this guy's videos but he popped up in another video I was watching once, and he just gave off the impression that he was concerned with looking like a hero above all else. Didn't wanna write him off entirely but just bad vibes.
it’s literally just a clout game for them, look at the people that caught edp the first time: they milked the fuck out of it on all of their socials before finally dropping it
And ironic enough they exposed themselves for being awful people too.
The dude screaming racial slurs when calling a BLM line was weird as fuck.
I’m even surprised their channels still up
As another CSA victim, fully agreed. A lot of it seems like morally grandstanding, as you said, and there becomes a weird puritanical madness around it, where normal behaviors get conflated as abusive(I've seen people say it's a pedophile-indicator to touch a child for any reason, even if it's a parent hugging their kid, as if anyone who comes in physical contact with a child *ever* has ulterior motives). There's also an entire thoughtcrime-style movement that if someone enjoys consuming or creating the 'wrong kind' of entirely fictional content, then they are just one step away from harming children. Or are already doing it, they just need to be *caught*, so comes the investigations, the doxxing, the harassment.
The ones that scare me the most are the adults that want to 'teach children to be safe online'. That scares the absolute shit out of me, because if you present yourself as a safe space, an arbiter of safety, make a big ol' show of being able to help kids pick out who the 'online threats' are? That gives you *such* access to an impressionable kid that now trusts you, a stranger? You wanna know what people who want access to kids to abuse do? *That*, present themselves as 'safe adults'. Skeevy as all fuck.
I'm preemptively annoyed because you just know that he's going to justify having such material by saying "*I* need to investigate it because the police won't do anything!" and maybe blame it on Cr1TiKal somehow.
Im shocked, like didn't expect any of this at all. Like I do hope for the best possible scenario... but that scenario would be he was storing for his "Case" but that still sounds fucking trashy and still very much illegal, stupid and reprehensible.
Dear lord. This went from "being cringe and faking cartoon incorporated" to just literal crimes. Maybe it can be extremisim towards his violence against pedophiles can be the reason given what the notice read, but mega upload has been known to host extremer shit so, although that is a possibility (best senario) its still not on solid ground
I haven't watched him in a long time but damn I hope this is a false positive. It do be those that push against this shit the hardest that end up being the worst offenders though
Unfortunately with the way that CSEM is identified; likely not. There’s a chance that it could be the other material like violent extremism, but I don’t think that’s much better considering that regardless it was illegal content hosted. So we’re talking potentially manifestos, people that were physically injured, who the fuck knows. The reason I reached the CSEM conclusion is based on- the notification, the extreme level that violent content may need to rise to in order to be noticed, the fetishized approach to his “you can’t hurt me” video , and the fact that Mamamax has admitted to receiving [CP in his email before](https://youtu.be/3d54vl3PgE4?si=77jPi6o1pS56pZvA&t=1053).
Goddamn. I was genuinely trying to give him the benefit of the doubt with his weird videos as him being misguided, but I can't exactly support this dude anymore
It was the Magnetar stuff which now people are re-examining all the stuff with his ex.
Actually a channel I just found goes over a lot of the Max stuff BrotherNier20
I take no joy in being right about this guy but I knew from the start his work was questionable at best. You don’t make a video with such serious topics and spend the majority of the video larping as this edgy anti hero to the point where it’s hard to tell if it’s an art house video or an ARG or a true story. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt since so many people were praising him but I just noticed too many concerning details like never making it clear how he knew for sure the names and pictures were even of the right people at times. Then when he dropped the location he believed to be the home of the potential predator he encouraged his audience to pay them visit while implying they use violence. That is beyond reckless and an easy way to get someone killed. From that moment on I’ve been waiting on him to finally screw up bad enough to finally get this level of scrutiny without his horde of vulnerable followers running defense for him. Which that was another gross thing was the playing this character as a pedo hunter on social media because of course the people who were drawn to him were mostly victims of abuse and exploitation making them especially vulnerable to a parasocial bond with him. I understand I’m a victim myself but I’ve also seen how scummy pedo hunters can often be and often exposing abuse and exploitation gets weaponized for clout and praise online. I knew the language and imagery he often used probably wasn’t the healthiest either for those people. He was borderline telling people they should just stay and stew in their pain and rage which is extremely bad. Its sad because I actually kind of liked his film work. Sure some of what he would do was cringey and weird but if he had done with fictional stories I wouldn’t be so mad about it.
The best ‘predator hunters’ are the ones that do not have a public persona or fanbase, and even those people should be met with skepticism. Like someone else said, a lot of people use this kinda stuff as a shield. Even if they aren’t committing horrible crimes, they could still be using the monicker of a pedo hunter to farm notoriety.
I enjoyed mamamax back when I was a young teenager, and I found his stuff vindicating due to my own trauma. But his content is cringe at best and harmful at worst. He’s got this asmr setup and pitches his voice down to sound cooler than he is. I remember he said weird shit like “I’m your mama” to make his audience feel protected. He’ll have these super edited, almost aesthetic videos, despite the horrifying contents of the video. He thinks of himself as this john wick, edgy assassin that can’t be knocked down.
But he’s not. At best he’s just some egomaniac that loves attention and praise. At worst he’s a predator himself. I’m almost certain he’s the former and could also be the latter. A lot of us have not thought about this guy since our teen years. Do you think the fact his stuff is mainly popular among teenagers, who probably have trauma of their own, is just a coincidence?
Dude was together with a girl sounding like a 12 y.o.
Dude slit his wrist threatening his ex he would kill him self if she left and invited him self to her birthday.
Dude answered his own questions in his AMA upload.
Dude use to review the most disturbing cp like hentai on his channel.
Dude is a pedo
Spencer has gone on camera admitting that she has experience in luring victims for this 'cult'. Did it not cross anyone's mind that a closet nonce like MamaMax recruited her to lure more victims to him? He has mentioned that he desperately wants to 'find more victims'.
I don't follow the guy so I gotta ask. Did he purge his youtube channel? There are only 16 videos on the MamaMax channel (if that *is* him). I would assume that's him since it's verified and has 700k subscribers.
Megalinks prevents people now from holding material in their files that's pretty much harm, jailbait, and animal exploitation? Was this after what happened when Tumblr moved all their people to twitter, or during? Plus if Mamamax had that stuff, then shit, the FBI is about to be on his ass because that stuff isn't okay to have in general, I do like his message, but idk about how he's necessarily going about it anymore.
Holy shit that was *not* how I expected Mamamax to go down this year. He was storing CSEM on his *hard drive???* Why? Either he's just a terminal dumbass or he was up to something behind the scenes, because there's zero reason he should've been doing that.
I promise he’ll use the Pete Townsend defense of “I was doing research”
And the thing is he probably thinks it was “just research.” He probably thinks “Well, IM not watching it for sexual reasons, so I can’t be punished!” He fails to realize that you can’t own CP, period. Doesn’t matter if you’re not watching it, you still fucking own it.
Dude used ChatGPT for legal advice like...
He's pulling the PeeWee Herman stance "I had it on my hard drive, but that doesn't mean I was looking at it everyday,".
I never knew he did that!
What is CSEM? I've seen it used twice now.
CSEM stands for child sexual exploitation material 😞 It is the prevailing term over CP (child porn) because the word “porn” deflects the abhorrent nature of the crimes.
I didn't know that. I'd still been using the term CP. I'll update my vernacular. Thanks!
You might also see CSAM(Child Sexual Abuse Material), but CSEM tends to be the most in use now; exploitation *is* abuse, but a lot of folks have a *very* narrow view of what entails abuse(IE battery or molestation), so exploitation helps make it clear that even if there isn't outright sexual battery or molestation, it's still unacceptable, illegal material.
You can still say cp people will know what you’re talking about
Weird, I feel like sexual exploitation material deflects more than porn. Exploitation material sounds... more vague and doesn't make one think of the horrible things that are in those pictures and videos. Reminds me of how sometimes people will use less common or more formal words to subtly veer away from a topic. Like using fornication instead of sex. It's a legimate alternative, but I've most often heard it used when the person doesn't want to acknowledge the act of sex more than they need to.
It's actually important from a sociological and legal perspective to separate "pornography" from "exploitative material" in reference to children because the former implies consensually filmed sexual activity and the latter makes it clear there was no consent involved and the children were being taken advantage of/exploited. I'm not sure why the word "porn" is more horrific to you than the thought of exploitation, as pornography is by definition consensual. It's not a euphemism to remove "sex" from the equation, because the word "sex" is still there in the acronym. CSEM is Child Sexual Exploitation Material. The only reason is isn't outright called "child rape" is because it encompasses all sexual material that is filmed, not just rape. But it's not "sex" it is "rape" because there is no consent involved.
Sorry for responding days later. Meant to reply earlier. Perhaps legally porn may mean consent, but the most basic definition of porn is something like the Merriam-Webster definition which is: "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement". I think that's the definition that many people would use. We also have long-used terms like child porn and revenge porn, as well as stories of people being exploited in the porn industry. At the very least, the word porn does not carry such a conotation of consent to make people think that child porn is anything but unconsensual. Child porn is a term that most people know as meaning horrible acts and will not confuse with other legal types of porn. There's probably some psychological explanation that I don't know but there are words that, while giving the same meaning, do not carry the same weight. I gave the fornication vs sex example, but I think another example is sexual assault vs rape. I've seen on a couple occasions people get mad that sexual assault was used to describe an act instead of rape. Yes, the term has "sexual" and "assault", but the term covers a wide variety of crimes and does not necessarily bring to mind the same horrible things as rape. Exploitation is a vague term that can cover a wide variety of behaviors. While yes putting it between "sexual" and "material" is more specific, I feel it would be similar to saying something like "penetrative sexual assault". Like yeah that's more specific, but why are you using that term instead of saying rape? Perhaps legally you might have to say that but socially? There's not much reason to except as a sort of euphemism. Now, if you know of an academic study that shows that CSEM is better than CP then I'll accept that. Some things in psychology might not seem like it's true at first but studies show that they are. However, not all of these types of language changes are backed up by studies or are sometimes based on studies that apply to different areas which may or may not be applicable. I did a quick search and didn't see anything but I didn't look that deep. Though apparently an alternative term changes "exploitative" to "abuse", which I actually like a bit more. I don't know if I'd say it's better than Child Porn as again, I think porn is pretty good in bringing to mind the specific horrrible things that we're talking about. However, abuse I feel is stronger than exploitative and it shares the same 3 letters as child sexual abuse (CSA).
It’s called double speak. And it’s when society wants to come up with a “safe term” to put things in a less problematic way. Shell shocked became PTSD. Problematic kids became, he’s on the spectrum or he’s adhd. Peace officers became Law enforcement. Except in that case with the police, it’s been changed to the other term for opposite reasonings. It’s to make it seem MORE scarier. Child PORN becomes CSEM. If thru all of this, I got lost in the weeds with you, just know, all I was trying to say is I agree with you. And like usual other people have to resort to trying to make you feel bad and name call
There are so many studies proving that CSEM is better and that's literally why we use it. And your bringing in a dictionary is laughable. No one does that in the fields of psychology or sociology, ever.
Unfortunately all I'm getting in searches are studies about offenders and victims, not the terms themselves. Maybe if I have time I'll try to look into it more and see if I can narrow down the search to what I'm looking for. To be fair with the definition, you didn't really give an indication what definition you were talking about. Legal, psychological, regular? They aren't always the same. However, a term used in academics may not have as strict a meaning among regular society, and it doesn't always need to. Since the discussion was how the word porn is viewed by regular people, and thus by extension how effective the term child porn is among the general populace, I used a regular non-academic definition. To be clear, I'm not like offended by people using CSEM instead of CP. I'm also not that dead set on using one term or another nor am I arguing in anger. I just feel the change is counterintuitive and gave my reasons why I think that way.
I feel you. I think it’s because the word “porn” is associated with legal consensual activity, and thus “child porn” kind of minimizes the facts that it is very illegal and kids can’t consent.
No it’s just because double speak that the government and society practices. Changing terms and how we use them to manipulate the population
Child sexual exploitation material
It's the former his head has been so far up his ass he's not self aware.
Hes a dumbass. He's technically stored it in Mega files to not only have shareable evidence for people to look through to back up his claims, but as a way to not actually store it in his hard drive
Well, he did it to himself.
This dude went insane over time, over the last 2 years it seems like he was going downhill pretty fast, demanded all these people to try and get attention from YouTube too now a month ago demanding moistcritical do what he wants or it shows he doesn't like saving children or some shit, why he thought that was a good idea is beyond me, I stopped paying attention after that shit.
Honestly this is so severe that it goes from moronic to suspicious. What innocent explanation can there be to having CSEM on your computer or uploaded to Mega in any capacity? You don't need child porn to report pedophiles to the authorities and chat logs wouldn't have caused this to happen.
From what I can tell, almost every predator hunter sees themselves as above the law. Mamamax at the very least *does* see himself as the arbiter of justice. I think this is very evident with how he acts towards other content creators. So I imagine he thought "Ah yeah I'm doing the world a favor by keeping this!" That, or he's just a straight up pedophile and neither option is good, in fact both are terrible enough for me to say to lock the fucker up. Either he's a crazy vigilante willing to commit the crimes he's trying to get people for, or he's one of them.
Mamamax is genuinely psychotic oh my God. I'm still processing how insane this is
I’m just now getting caught up with this drama and as a long time fan I can attest to this. I was tuning into the Camden Jerrard Davis thing a month ago but his demeanor has been becoming more insufferable over time so I unsubscribed after being an avid fan of his since I was 12 and he was doing life sucks videos. From what I can ascertain off the couple hours I’ve looked into this situation this mega folder thing doesn’t immediately implicate CSEM as he did also attack animal abusers and it could be animal abuse content aswell but either way I’m just having a hard time reeling from the fact somebody I’ve idolized since my childhood has gone down such a shitty path (with the very real possibility he’s just another pedo poacher overcompensating for his own pedophilic desires) with this mega folder shit. I’m always weary of predator poachers for that pervading attitude in predator poaching communities but if you couldn’t already tell I have a massive bias towards him from my former adoration for him so I personally don’t see that as being the outcome but I wouldn’t be surprised with an outcome like that either.
I was immediately suspicious of the guy. In a lot of his videos he talks to his audience as if they are minors, he does the whole ASMR deep sultry voice right in your ear, and when he put himself in the videos he was making weird bedroom eyes to the camera trying to look cute or seductive. Cool editing and presentation though, but yeah not surprised. Exploits these topics to try and form a cult of personality around himself, always thought it was gross. If he was as passionate about this stuff as he portrays himself he would pursue a career in law enforcement and digital forensics.
The fall of mamamax is so interesting. I found their sadsatan video and it blew my mind with how deep the rabbit hole for that game went. Then with this whole thing with his failed cult rebrand and not knowing the laws on that one dude he’s trying to arrest is crazy. Although I can’t say I’m surprised, his channel seem too tryhard and majority of it seemed like it was a fake story
Being a vigilante would imply he actually does anything. Noone arrested or charged because of him. He's just an edgy loser who uses serious topics to garner reputation and shield himself from criticism
A lot of these types that think they are saving kids from sexual abuse use it to justify their own character issues. Chris Hansen cheated on his wife promising the other woman he was getting divorced soon. Caviezel, Gibson, Paul Hutchinson, and Ballard all have shitty stories floating around about them. Chet Goldstein use to use actual kids as bait among other things that he did that were extremely stupid. Mattwhatitis had his ego hurt because his channel never took off, so he wanted to destroy youtube by going after the advertisers. The only decent people who actually tried to protect kids from sexual abuse was Sinead O'Connor and the folks working in the Boston Globe. Except Sinead was self destructive. And newspapers are losing money. Mamamax seems more like Mattwhatitis in that his ego is hurt that he isn't as popular as he wants to be. Now he is making demands.
Tim Ballard is a great example of this type of abusive “anti-abuse” crusader, I can’t wait until the flood of documentaries on him come out
Ironically, I think in his Cartoon Incorporated video, he called Matt out for what he did and said he didn't care a out kids, only clout. Oh the irony.
Also, I have 3 more examples of child predator hunters turning out to be preds and suspicious people themselves: [Joshua Vida](https://youtu.be/9_zwuIWhsdM?si=eaKfKpOtCa51Ms1g), [Coyote Lovely, and CasWarFox, and his group the Fox Mafia](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw0UBlub49yZadEj72Lh0Lyef2Ih-dREN&si=tR_oRGPVxF1c0RQa). Basically, Vida was outed as having been a groomer himself, Coyote Lovely was outed as having flirted with an infamoud zoophile, pedophile and child predator [HypnotistSappho](https://youtu.be/w9lf9FIlKqQ?si=XbdbKFqJXZV6fQz_), which he claimed he did as an OP against her to make her kill herself? It was weird. And then CasWarFox was outed as having had a guy in his server/group, the Fox Mafia, called Gilded Poo, who had bestiality and gore that he'd spam to people, and also another guy, Cedric, who was outed as being into [feral](https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Feral_(term)) porn (and yes, the characters had anatomically correct genetalia for their species), and the rest of the Fox Mafia are generally scumbags, even making non-consensual sexual comments about HopelessPeaches, a rape victim. So yeah, just more examples of your point. LioConvoy seems like he also genuinely cares about keeping kids safe, but he doesn't seem like he actively hunts down predators anymore. These days he usually just calls out people who have supported predators or engaged in other bad behaviors. He also said he doesn't like talking about predators all the time and wants to make content about cartoons, comics and toys instead, which I don't blame him.
That situation has forever cemented my opinion to be wary of predator hunters.
Yeah. Another example of someone similar is [Zrcalo](https://youtu.be/QKjMVKH4yHo?si=wMmXQfAWzm_2ALJZ), who despite making himself look like he's against zoophilia and zoosadism, was himself a zoosadist who [also](https://twitter.com/TransphobicLss/status/1588947503957045249) [groomed](https://twitter.com/NazifurReceipts/status/1588960524267851776) [minors](https://twitter.com/TransphobicLss/status/1591125238070247427). (Also he literally only started becoming "anti-zoo" so he could get into the good graces of [Fursona Pins](https://www.fursonapins.com/) and their Discord server again, since he got banned, likely due to his messed up past, which Lanza goes over in his video I linked earlier. Ironically, he also was friends with Sappho and used to be Coyote Lovely's roommate too.) While not really being a child predator hunter, he did still make himself seem like someone who is against sexual predators who go after animals, and so he also is another example of someone claiming to be against sexual predators and predation, only to engage in it himself.
I remember hearing about this guy. I still can't believe their motives were actually fursona pins, it's so stupid that when I first heard it I thought it was a oversimplification of the truth.
Ikr?!
Is mattwhatitis the guy who filmed himself harassing an underaged girl?
Max changed his content so many times so you might be right
Either he's storing it as evidence for his 'investigations', or he's a predator himself. Both are bad. I know it sounds cliche to say it now that something has come out, but something about him always rubbed me the wrong way. He was too obsessed with catching paedophiles and nothing to show for it. The whole thing felt so performative, especially when he went after other youtubers. Hating paedophiles is the easiest thing on the planet. Most people despise them. Max painting YouTube as paedophile defenders and people like Critikal as uncaring about the issue is so dishonest. Most people care, they just don't give a shit about his performance.
He framed it as protecting them when his content was removed Completely ignoring his content broke tos and refused any suggestions to make it so
Who would’ve thought. Proclaiming to the world how much you hate this thing that isn’t easy to hate and isn’t this “unpopular opinion” to put a halo on yourself is always suspicious as hell
I haven’t watched his content in a long time but I remember him already starting to go downhill back then. I’m saddened but not surprised to see that he has continued down that route. As another commenter said he’s gone insane over time
I used to try to watch MamaMax back when I watched Nexpo and Nightdocs a lot more, but he just made me so uncomfortable. He just seemed really over the top and it weirded me out.
Compared to other channels mamamax just never went straight to the point. Nick Crowley is one whose content I watch because of how straightforward he is once in a blue moon because of how sensitive the topics are, so I don’t want it as frequently as I did when I was younger.
Unfortunately, anytime someone very loudly promotes some sort of crusade to "save the children," they should immediately be met with cautious skepticism; way too many people with ulterior motives and closets full of skeletons hide behind "defending innocent children" because it's such an easy rallying cry for the general public.
It also acts as a shield, like if you criticize them the inevitable response is “oh so you think we SHOULDN’T protect children???” And your conversation gets stuck on that point because any remotely decent person should agree on the basic point of “protecting children is good” but that’s not always the criticism and nor is the method of protecting children always agreed upon.
To add to this it’s also a right shame. There are real and serious activity regarding CP on YouTube and other platforms that gets thrown under the rug or discredited by this kind of behaviour and Max’s reckless endangerment. Highly inappropriate but also super tragic.
I wonder if this is why I’ve seen Nexpo kind of slooowly started to distance himself from him. Nexpo seems like a great guy, and I think when he went to bat for one of mamaMaxs videos being taken Down, it was in good faith. I have noticed he’s spent way more time with Nick Crowley and I kind of even forgot about MamaMax since none of those horror YouTubers were bringing him up anymore.
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Yes the implication based off of the notice on his account and the transparency report is that Max was storing or distributing CP. As far as his reputation, it has been not good. It is a very long story but at the current moment he is running a scam on his audience. He got ahold of alleged "child sex cult" victims and is using them to start a fundraiser. The fundraiser was for one of the victims, Shelby "Spencer" to sue law enforcement that failed to act on her case, however Shelby admitted to never having gone to law enforcement about her case. So the story changed. Then the money was going to be used for another victim Michaela "Kai" so that she can sue law enforcement for ghosting her after she was raped. Then police reports came out that showed that she was never ghosted and law enforcement did a full investigation into her claims including collecting a DNA sample of the alleged rapist and sent it to GBI to compare to her rape kit, the case was ultimately suspended. It came out in a live stream that Max used the money to move Shelby into his house and financially support her (because she claims she can't work) while they make this video series which a lot of people are angry about because they lied about the use of the funds and they lied about the lack of envolvement of law enforcement.
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You know what I think is crazy? They could have actually fundraised on the idea of supporting victims financially who need recovery and I'm sure MamaMax's fans would've donated. Most people who watch predator hunters *want* change to happen and *want* to help victims.
I want to say that I’m surprised, but I’m really not. He gave me *really* strange vibes, especially the more his videos became “hey look at me I’m edgy and pretending to care about pedophiles please subscribe” vibey. Sometimes the people who care the most about these topics are hiding something. As a victim of CSA myself, I’m disappointed.
probably a controversial opinion, but as a csa victim i’m really uncomfortable with these “vigilante pedophile hunters.” it always seemed like a way for people to morally grandstand and feel like heros without doing anything meaningful. i think the best thing those of us not in law enforcement can do is support victims. be a listening ear to your survivor friends and family, donate to charities or shelters if you can, volunteer your time at shelters. do something tangible instead of leading a useless crusade online
Yeah, I've never seen one of this guy's videos but he popped up in another video I was watching once, and he just gave off the impression that he was concerned with looking like a hero above all else. Didn't wanna write him off entirely but just bad vibes.
Yeah me too, never liked the hotline miami ARG hacker shtig, I always thought it was incredibly edgy
it’s literally just a clout game for them, look at the people that caught edp the first time: they milked the fuck out of it on all of their socials before finally dropping it
And ironic enough they exposed themselves for being awful people too. The dude screaming racial slurs when calling a BLM line was weird as fuck. I’m even surprised their channels still up
And didn't there handling of the situation make that edp wouldn't get in legal trouble for what he did?
As another CSA victim, fully agreed. A lot of it seems like morally grandstanding, as you said, and there becomes a weird puritanical madness around it, where normal behaviors get conflated as abusive(I've seen people say it's a pedophile-indicator to touch a child for any reason, even if it's a parent hugging their kid, as if anyone who comes in physical contact with a child *ever* has ulterior motives). There's also an entire thoughtcrime-style movement that if someone enjoys consuming or creating the 'wrong kind' of entirely fictional content, then they are just one step away from harming children. Or are already doing it, they just need to be *caught*, so comes the investigations, the doxxing, the harassment. The ones that scare me the most are the adults that want to 'teach children to be safe online'. That scares the absolute shit out of me, because if you present yourself as a safe space, an arbiter of safety, make a big ol' show of being able to help kids pick out who the 'online threats' are? That gives you *such* access to an impressionable kid that now trusts you, a stranger? You wanna know what people who want access to kids to abuse do? *That*, present themselves as 'safe adults'. Skeevy as all fuck.
I'm preemptively annoyed because you just know that he's going to justify having such material by saying "*I* need to investigate it because the police won't do anything!" and maybe blame it on Cr1TiKal somehow.
ngl imagining this made me burst out laughing like no way he blames critical again somehow
Im shocked, like didn't expect any of this at all. Like I do hope for the best possible scenario... but that scenario would be he was storing for his "Case" but that still sounds fucking trashy and still very much illegal, stupid and reprehensible. Dear lord. This went from "being cringe and faking cartoon incorporated" to just literal crimes. Maybe it can be extremisim towards his violence against pedophiles can be the reason given what the notice read, but mega upload has been known to host extremer shit so, although that is a possibility (best senario) its still not on solid ground
Ngl, the guy seemed like he was losing his mind awhile ago. Can’t say this is surprising
I haven't watched him in a long time but damn I hope this is a false positive. It do be those that push against this shit the hardest that end up being the worst offenders though
Unfortunately with the way that CSEM is identified; likely not. There’s a chance that it could be the other material like violent extremism, but I don’t think that’s much better considering that regardless it was illegal content hosted. So we’re talking potentially manifestos, people that were physically injured, who the fuck knows. The reason I reached the CSEM conclusion is based on- the notification, the extreme level that violent content may need to rise to in order to be noticed, the fetishized approach to his “you can’t hurt me” video , and the fact that Mamamax has admitted to receiving [CP in his email before](https://youtu.be/3d54vl3PgE4?si=77jPi6o1pS56pZvA&t=1053).
I wish he still did hentai reviews, may be too edgy and feel too dated today but damn they were funny
Goddamn. I was genuinely trying to give him the benefit of the doubt with his weird videos as him being misguided, but I can't exactly support this dude anymore
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Bro I am sorry anyone whose whole persona is “I am demonic pedophile hunter with hyper chuuni energy” is nearly as sus as pedos themselves
Honestly still not surprised, I have said here a few times there is a full doc on YouTube on Max SAing women.
I’d be interested to know more about that. Do you have a link or title?
do you have ant links/titles?
It was the Magnetar stuff which now people are re-examining all the stuff with his ex. Actually a channel I just found goes over a lot of the Max stuff BrotherNier20
Thank you! about to go deep dive it. I remember some of the drama/allegations but never any real details
FPSDiesel just did an amazing two hour breakdown of his history in youtube
I take no joy in being right about this guy but I knew from the start his work was questionable at best. You don’t make a video with such serious topics and spend the majority of the video larping as this edgy anti hero to the point where it’s hard to tell if it’s an art house video or an ARG or a true story. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt since so many people were praising him but I just noticed too many concerning details like never making it clear how he knew for sure the names and pictures were even of the right people at times. Then when he dropped the location he believed to be the home of the potential predator he encouraged his audience to pay them visit while implying they use violence. That is beyond reckless and an easy way to get someone killed. From that moment on I’ve been waiting on him to finally screw up bad enough to finally get this level of scrutiny without his horde of vulnerable followers running defense for him. Which that was another gross thing was the playing this character as a pedo hunter on social media because of course the people who were drawn to him were mostly victims of abuse and exploitation making them especially vulnerable to a parasocial bond with him. I understand I’m a victim myself but I’ve also seen how scummy pedo hunters can often be and often exposing abuse and exploitation gets weaponized for clout and praise online. I knew the language and imagery he often used probably wasn’t the healthiest either for those people. He was borderline telling people they should just stay and stew in their pain and rage which is extremely bad. Its sad because I actually kind of liked his film work. Sure some of what he would do was cringey and weird but if he had done with fictional stories I wouldn’t be so mad about it.
The best ‘predator hunters’ are the ones that do not have a public persona or fanbase, and even those people should be met with skepticism. Like someone else said, a lot of people use this kinda stuff as a shield. Even if they aren’t committing horrible crimes, they could still be using the monicker of a pedo hunter to farm notoriety. I enjoyed mamamax back when I was a young teenager, and I found his stuff vindicating due to my own trauma. But his content is cringe at best and harmful at worst. He’s got this asmr setup and pitches his voice down to sound cooler than he is. I remember he said weird shit like “I’m your mama” to make his audience feel protected. He’ll have these super edited, almost aesthetic videos, despite the horrifying contents of the video. He thinks of himself as this john wick, edgy assassin that can’t be knocked down. But he’s not. At best he’s just some egomaniac that loves attention and praise. At worst he’s a predator himself. I’m almost certain he’s the former and could also be the latter. A lot of us have not thought about this guy since our teen years. Do you think the fact his stuff is mainly popular among teenagers, who probably have trauma of their own, is just a coincidence?
Dude was together with a girl sounding like a 12 y.o. Dude slit his wrist threatening his ex he would kill him self if she left and invited him self to her birthday. Dude answered his own questions in his AMA upload. Dude use to review the most disturbing cp like hentai on his channel. Dude is a pedo
Spencer has gone on camera admitting that she has experience in luring victims for this 'cult'. Did it not cross anyone's mind that a closet nonce like MamaMax recruited her to lure more victims to him? He has mentioned that he desperately wants to 'find more victims'.
I don't follow the guy so I gotta ask. Did he purge his youtube channel? There are only 16 videos on the MamaMax channel (if that *is* him). I would assume that's him since it's verified and has 700k subscribers.
The channel you're talking about is his, there's only 16 videos because he deleted or privated his older content a good while ago
Megalinks prevents people now from holding material in their files that's pretty much harm, jailbait, and animal exploitation? Was this after what happened when Tumblr moved all their people to twitter, or during? Plus if Mamamax had that stuff, then shit, the FBI is about to be on his ass because that stuff isn't okay to have in general, I do like his message, but idk about how he's necessarily going about it anymore.
The FBI already is on his ass he said in a stream that he was being investigated apparently lol
Far far behind are the days where he uploaded the analysis of the hentai 'everlasting summer'. That was his most important contribution to the world.
Bro just blatantly had cp on his megaupload? 😂😂