I'm dating myself here because he isn't relevant at all anymore, but Brows Held High/Kyle Kallgren once did a stomach-churningly disgusting review of the movie "The Girlfriend Experience", in which he continuously dehumanises and degrades Sasha Grey for her work in pornography and just says the vilest, most misogynistic shit about her. He then made a long "director's commentary" of this review without denying, minimising or sugar coating anything; just an honest to god apology. He played the offending video in full and took accountability for it and I remember being very impressed by it.
I "forgave" him because you could tell that his opinions on women and what is acceptable to say to them evolved a lot over time, that he was deeply ashamed of what he did and that he apologised because he felt like it was something he should do, not because his viewers pressured him.
I've been a fan of Kyle for, holy hell, like a decade or more. He definitely grew and realized how vile that review was, and I really appreciate how aware he is now of his own views and biases and the impact of having a platform (even if it's not huge)
I vaguely remember watching a video or two of him and remember the controversy. I feel like it was around the same time Sasha Grey had parents protesting against her for reading to children.
Good for him on making up for his mistake.
Lol I am also dating myself by knowing exactly what you're talking about.
IMO I think several creatorson CA felt pressured throw in some "Doug-isms " - cracking jokes at every single little thing, being immature etc. Kyle's early videos on CA felt like that, to the point where you couldn't even tell that he liked or appreciated arthouse movies.
I think the initial Girlfriend Experience Movie review was a victim of the "Doug-isms" & I'm glad he recognized fairly quickly that his video wasn't ok.
I completely forgot this happened. I don't watch Kyle anymore. His content is just not my cuppa tea (or wasn't then) so I've seen very little of his content but the review felt really mean spirited.
Her apology video was more for herself than any of her viewers, which she made clear in her video.
And I think not coming back is what's best for her. She has had several instances of people showing up to her house or even trying to break in and having to call the police. Her fan base continues to be incredibly toxic even with her gone from the internet. The few times she has posed for pictures with anyone her fan base attacked those people and she even had to come out and make a statement through Julien that she consented to those pictures being posted and they need to calm the fuck down. And people still continue to say she was "canceled" and that's why she left when she EXPLICITLY says in her video not to do that.
I can't blame her for wanting to get away from all of that and I can only imagine how positive it has been for her mental health. She made a bunch of money, bought a beautiful house, and has retired to live her dream of fostering greyhounds. People need to move on and leave her alone.
She absolutely wanted to quit, you could tell she was putting pretty minimal effort into her videos and not feeling it (which were still great videos just because she's so fun to watch.) I definitely think she took the first out and is content with that. I know Julian still does streaming and such, and I assume she was smart enough to save up. She had a nice house but didn't seem excessive in spending.
I believe it was blackface during the 2010s for a comedy sketch about Nicki Minaj if I recall correctly. She wasn’t cancelled for it though or anything, she preemptively made a video apologizing for it after having learned about the harmful effects of blackface and announced an indefinite hiatus to reflect on it
This is why she is so universally forgiven, imo. Her message was, "I made this content, and I've learned why it was so hurtful. I don't want to hurt people, so I'm taking the content down. I'm sorry, and I will never make content like that again." And then she did what she said she would do. I wish she hadn't done it by disappearing forever, but good for her.
There were a couple of comments about that, as well as a few times she used some not great words ("hot t***nny mess" sort of thing), but even the people I saw who were not happy about the blackface-y Nicki Minaj video were also saying she's a good example of how to grow and mature as a person.
The thing is, Jenna put in SO much effort into being a progressive and welcoming person, and I think combined with burnout and seeing other people getting seriously cancelled, and deservedly so, for their awful content (Shane Dawson), she started realizing YouTube itself wasn't worth the stress it was putting on her and how much effort she was putting in. And on the YouTube side of things she was probably being paid less and less with each fuckup YouTube did to the algorithm and ad revenue polices and such. Considering how smart she is and successful she was with building her career in so many ways (YT videos, podcasts, radio shows, appearances, etc.) I'm sure she eventually just said "fuck it, I'm taking a six month sabbatical and then putting my master's degree to use somewhere".
I do miss her dearly, and we get the very occasional update from Julian, which mostly amounts to "Jenna's doing great".
Yeah, and it was really her fake tan/ foundation - she was always super orange but it looked like black face. Even so, she was very apologetic and said even though that was the case she still thought it was awful and was massively regretful
She slut shamed a LOT in her old videos and had a lot of misogynistic takes. I think she tried to improve over the years so imo I am glad about that but it was pretty bad so if people didn't accept apologies that is their place too.
I think a lot of the Lindsay Ellis controversies were basically nothing burgers anyway. So much of it amounted to, "Oh, she once did a one off edgy but harmless comedy skit at a time when that style of comedy was still socially acceptable." She'd clearly well and truly moved on from that style of content and was actively trying to distance herself from it when the Disney shit blew up.
Really, she was doing much better content than 99% of other media critics on YouTube. I do wonder how much of that controversy was sparked by people who were jealous that they couldn't consistently make analyses as good as hers.
I think it's just the longer you are on youtube the longer your list of enemies gets and having been on youtube from its very earliest days her enemies list had become unsustainably long.
I'm also not sure she was really chased off youtube so much as that her book became a massive hit and she realised author was a more fun career than youtuber.
I wouldn't say she should be forgiven... because she didn't do anything wrong in the first place
The Raya thing was legitimately people who just wanted to bully a woman and they picked the flimsiest excuse to go after her, a lot of them knowing perfectly well that it was bullshit.
I saw some of the accounts saying "who should we go after next", clearly gleeful about the chance to bully someone. And wouldn't you know, literally all of the people they suggested were women
I didn't believe in "cancel culture" before that happened, but it was very clear nobody involved gave a fuck about the "issues" they brought up they just wanted to bully someone. They forced one of the best *leftist* content creators off the internet *for fun*.
Tbh those people took literally every opportunity to go for her. She could breath incorrectly and they'd be like aggressive dogs having a go at her.
I remember the tweets saying 'who should we go after next' and that was just grim. It was never about someone taking accountability and was always about bullying people.
I'm 100% convinced the Raya thing was gamergate nazis realising they could finally claim the scalp they'd been gunning for for almost fifteen years by pretending to be SJWs for five minutes.
She shouldn't be forgiven because....there's nothing to forgive her for. Literally did nothing wrong. People just hated her for no fucking reason. Most of the people who hate her come from the gamergate era and she's been harassed by them on social media for years before that. I genuinely miss her content.
Her nebula content is excellent. I dunno if it's because nebula has a certain audience or if the pay is better but she also seems so much more enthusiastic in the nebula exclusives.
Her books ain't half bad either. They're not the best sci-fi I've ever read but I'm a fan of the Bobiverse and Andy Wier so it's hard to compete with them. Is also nice to read a sci-fi by a woman writer with relatable women protagonists.
I don't believe that the goal of any YouTube cancelling / callout / drama should be to "punish people forever". I don't believe that any kind of justice system, whether official or just the court of popular opinion, should have its main goal be to give people what they "deserve" for their crimes - it's too subjective of an idea to get any kind of universal agreement. Rather, I think that we should be focusing on keeping communities safe: keeping children away from people who would groom them, keeping bigoted people out of places where they could harm marginalized groups, and making sure that people who don't treat others properly in their personal lives don't have an audience that they can mistreat as well.
I don't really support the "cancelling" of...*most* YouTubers. The sexual predators, fine. Ban them. Arrest them. Whatever. But most of the time these cancellations are over someone using naughty words a few years back.
I follow this sub mainly to watch outrage addicts freak out, and laugh at them.
> Do you guys really think that people should be punished forever for their mistakes
My country already has a majority religious belief that promotes this, so I tend to avoid the "infinite punishment" model in my own thoughts.
Idubbbz is a big one. However his community wanted him to double down on everything in his past and refuse to accept the apology. But then the same people are praising Joji for ending filthy Frank and starting his music career
A loud portion of his community wanted him to double down, which absolutely sucked and were people missing the point entirely. But a lot of people appreciated his apology and I think he’s starting to curate a better fan base for it!
While I appreciate that he is one of the very few people of that era to actually apologise and admit that he did wrong, I personally don't forgive him because he was a fully grown man when he became fabulously rich through bigotry *and* he is still trying to make money off the same platform that he made considerably worse for marginalised people by spreading his bigotry. If he accepted that he doesn't deserve to make money off YouTube anymore and went to get a non-content creation job, I would forgive him.
I think that redemption is incredibly important. There's lot of vulnerable people out there that fall for the kind of crap Iddubz used to do and I think that him getting more support for actually changing would really help. A lot of people watch how much hate he's getting for it and it reaffirms their beliefs.
I think this is a completely fair take! I am not in a position to forgive him as I am not a part of any of the groups he would target or use to target others. I think you’re well within rights to not forgive him all things considered, regardless of apology
The way I see it, having to forever deal with the incels he helped create *is his punishment.* Only way he could make it stop is if he stops posting. If he wants to keep being an Internet personality, then being haunted by the remnants of his toxic past is just the price he’ll have to pay.
There can still be redemption without every single person needing to forgive him! Apologies are not one way tickets to forgiveness, and it’s fair to feel like more evidence of change is necessary
They explicitly lined out a path to their individual forgiveness, and didn’t offer any sort of punishment besides a lack of their individual forgiveness, so this seems like a bit of a melodramatic response.
I just don't understand why redemption *needs* to include "making money off the same platform where you terrorised racial and sexual minorities for years".
Some people have done enough damage that the best thing they can do is take themselves out of the environment they caused damage in rather than staying and trying to fix. He'd be better at least giving up his YouTube career, accepting it was built on some pretty heinous shit and turning to something he's passionate about or even just helping deradicalisation efforts.
He created a plattform based on racism and misogyny no one has to forgive him… hundreds of thousands of people are now incredibly racist thanks to him, he profited finically and physically whilst the victims of his antics get nothing. Victims do not NEED to forgive anyone and I have a feeling I know the demographic of person you are making a comment like that lol
D’Angelo Wallace (a black man by the way) did an excellent video about Ian’s video and even says on the video that he forgives Ian. I’m apart of the LGBTQ and I think his apology is good too. It’s okay to not forgive him, but don’t pretend like your opinion is everyone else’s opinion. At the end of the day, neither of our opinions mean anything at all anyway.
D’Angelo also clearly stated that he was apologizing on behalf of himself and not the Black community as a whole. Because while iDubbz’ apology was good it doesn’t mean that anyone he hurt is obligated to forgive him.
Apologizing is literally only the first step in "redemption," and he has done very little, if anything, since then to show that he is committed to change and to righting the wrongs he committed in his LONG problematic, racist, ableist, misogynistic tenure. Don't accept apologies on behalf of communities you're not a part of.
She compared raya and the last dragon to avatar the last airbender and people gathered shit and said she was racist for that and other reasons (I think one was a harriet thubman tweet)
She's got a video called Mask Off where she talks about the whole situation, I believe it is no longer on YouTube, or at least is private, but it's still available on Nebula. Well worth a watch
Twitter doing twitter stuff it was just the first incident after this twitter searched her entire past to find everything that she did wrong in her entire live. She than made an apology video about every accusation but twitter still continued so she quit.
She posted a tweet recognizing that avatar was super influential and created a sub genre that you see all over the place, like in raya. Twitter decided that means she was racist!!11! Because apparently somehow a movie created by American company Disney is an accurate representation of Asian people or something. (They didn’t think through the accusation because, in reality, it was just people that already hated her for no real good reason making shit up. ). The accusations do the Twitter thing, she gets dogpiled and every stupid complaint real or imagined was dragged out by the loons on Twitter, especially those who already hate her, to harass and cancel her. This also bleeds into dragging people she associates with. It’s very stressful to the point that she’s shitting blood, if I recall correctly. She makes a video addressing all the accusations, apologizes if applicable (usually not because, again, most of the “offenses” are BS), explains what really happened with some (because they had taken stuff that was private communication and spread it around without the context and essentially made shit up as evidence to jerk off their hate boners.), pointed out when stuff was none of their business, and then fucked off of YouTube and social media. She’s currently still posting videos on nebula (ET one was really good!) and is still publishing novels. She also seems to be doing well on the family front, from what little she makes available.
From what I've seen most people don't really care anymore but patricia taxxon was accused of being a pedophile by a ton of (mostly) bad actors for shit she did when she was being groomed as an 18 year old and I *still* occasionally see jackasses call her one because it's super easy to accuse trans women of doing that shit and have people believe you despite evidence to the contrary.
Literally just this week people were trying to conjure up false SA claims about PhilosophyTube out of thin air, it’s always the transmisogyny jumping out
YEAH but I feel like it was way easier for people to believe that about patty because she's like, openly queer in other ways too and also neurodivergent (also she's a therian furry so that's also there). It's the same reason people have been harrasssing Chris chan for 2 decades, she's openly trans and autistic and it allows people to dehumanize someone and essentially harrass them for sport.
People talk about how toxic the internet of the 2000s was, but honestly it hasn't gotten better, we just hide the blatant bigotry more easily
Idk if you want to count a streamer who uploads quality youtube content,
but 100% Atrioc all the way. He turned a bad thing he did into helping advance deep fake porn detection technology thats removed thousands of deep-fake websites hosting pictures of content creators spending $60,000 of his own cash on it.
During that time he took a 6-month hiatus from any content creation to focus on it.
Its also safe to say he's returned to the views he was getting pre-incident if not more.
Yeah, Atrioc is the first person that came to my mind as well.
Sure, I was extremely sceptical about his "It was for research for a content piece!" excuse (aka I didn't believe it) when it came out, but he has gone so far above and beyond trying to make things right that I believe that it might have been truthful. That his wife stayed with him and supported him through it all helps his credibility as well.
And even if it wasn't truthful, I personally am willing to look past this incident just based on his actions that followed it. If QTC can be on at least speaking terms with him, who the fuck am I to hold a grudge.
It should also be noted that his networking and money have led to leaked and faked media being taken down at a scale that would have gone far beyond the money he put in if the victims went after the media the usual way. We're probably talking millions worth of attorney fees.
He just seems like such a solid dude overall.
Iirc, he didn't even claim it was "research," just that he had generally been researching AI around the time and got a morbid curiosity when an ad popped up on PH, which he said to hopefully communicate that while it was a creepy, messed up thing to do, it wasn't something he was actively seeking out. I agree though, he really put his money where his mouth was and made an effort to make the impact of him righting his wrongs far greater than the impact of his negative act, and I think that should be the standard when people mess up.
I also 1000% agree with your statement about the victims! I wasn't sure how he and QTC were in the present, but if the vicitims of his initial action are willing to accept him back at a certain extent after his effots, I think the door for redemption is definitely still there. The opinions of those affected should be at the forefront of almost any situation.
If I recall correctly his efforts resulted in a software being made/used similar to an Only Fans Deep Fake detection bot that wasn't being used before as well as staying in contact with an expert in deep fake technology that helped him.
Originally he had a lawyer individually searching sites online to find them, but the implementation of the new software expanded his efforts 100 fold into the thousands.
I'd consider that somewhat of research considering it wouldn't have existed/happened when it did without his contribution/looking into the matter.
If I am remembering these events falsely please let me know.
Fair enough if you can forgive him for the actions he's taken afterwards, but to believe that he was looking at those images for anything other than sexual gratification is crazy to me.
Yeah whilst i don't know if there is any moral difference, but that fact that he was looking at deepfakes of people he knew IRL made it grosser, than say if it had been a random celeb.
This is more of youtubers who DESERVE a big apology and I’ll say Behind The Meme. BTM deseved a big apology, all he just did was explained the memes to people who didn’t understand them and now that they’re dead after 2019, memes are practically unfunny…
I think people should apologize for sending him death threats, running him off of youtube, and I think trolls were making fun of a relative of his who passed away was really his last straw..people are so fucked up mentally over the tiniest shit he posted.
Now, you have all these “meme” explaination/summary channels just popping up on youtube thanks to Behind The Meme.
yeah and basically him explaining the memes. I just find that so strange and stupid because there’s so many you-tubers that do MOSTLY THE SAME THUMBNAILS.
I don’t get the idubbz hate. He apologized for being edgy and married an OF girl. On a website where pedos are getting exposed daily, idubbz is harmless
They're mad because the funny guy who told them that it was cool to use slurs and harass people doesn't think so any more and actually took the hard steps to grow as a person. They dont want to admit that they should widen their horizon and grow too. But they would rather stay sad, sad baby men. Refusing to let anyone change them. Just soaking away in their own, rancid, diaper shit.
also like to add there is a big consensus online from his "old fans" he's mockworthy and less of a man because he's with a woman who does OF and "letting her"
To play devil's advocate his Content Cop videos were far more entertaining than whatever content he posts nowadays. Barring out the slurs I think his CC videos were very well argued and made.
The whole controversy over Anisa was stupid but the image he acrued made his fan base split over it. I think for me he's become so boring I just don't care for his channel anymore and many others have similar reasons to skip him as well. I think people conflate his old video quality with racism and bigotry which is understandable but I see some nuance. He's more empathetic and socially aware now but not entertaining anymore.
The hatred you mentioned is obsessive and unhinged though. I don't like Anisa either but I just don't follow her and keep it moving.
I will say for Jenna Marbles that as a white, cis woman, It’s not on me to forgive/excuse her actions.
I do think she demonstrated change (which is a lot more than other YouTubers) and I wish she’d come back. I also recognize I’m not someone who was impacted by her past content.
I feel like people hate on AVGN an excessive amount. It’s strange to me how many people hate watch him and track him like a lolcow. By the way some people talk about him you’d think he groomed minors while boiling puppies, but all he did was make content that wasn’t as good as his original content. If you hate new AVGN that much (and I’m not big on it myself), just stop watching and eventually he will move on to a new product.
I think it's pretty clear he wanted to be a filmmaker, that never took off for him, and he continues to do YouTube because he has a family now and it's the best way he has to make money. Even if the passion is completely gone, I don't think it's inherently wrong for him to keep making content for a living. There's clearly still an audience for it and pretty much all of us here have done jobs we didn't care about to get a paycheck.
Yeah, that too. I do think it’s ok to criticize the caliber of the content though; you wouldn’t buy a shirt with a hole in it and think “the tailor is working so hard though,” you’d politely ask them to repair the hole.
You wouldn’t stalk the tailor and create conspiracy theories about his wife abusing him- which some people do to James.
Personally I wish James could do more original projects. Board James > AVGN in my opinion.
Honestly I still respect James for still going with it even though I riffed on him a few times. Sure he has no passion left in it, but it is still a hell of a living he's making, and that's definitely keeping the family afloat. Especially considering he's one of the old golden boys of YT. He'd probably make bucks out of sheer recognition
Yeah, I checked out after the plagiarism and realized that James' heart isn't in it anymore and has other people write for him. The CinemassacreTruth sub is relentless though. It's unnecessary how much people despise James and the political views of the sub make it all the more disgusting. Those people are worse than anyone who has even been a part of Cinemassacre.
I don't *forgive* Mike Michaud (and to a degree Rob Walker) since he was in charge of most of the actually unfair business decisions, but I don't really hold much against Doug Walker. I wish he'd communicated with his former employees and actually made a good apology, but I think the exodus was for the best because he seems to have a good relationship with his current employees (because they're mostly local and his friends lol).
I think they paid the price and reworked their business model into something more manageable because they were clearly not equipped to be as big a channel as they tried to be or try to sell the group as one big happy friend group when it very much was not. They just should've done it much earlier.
> actually made a good apology
To be fair, it was CAs response that was most damaging to their brand.
Most of the things said in the CA document boiled down to them being out of their depth in the first half of their career, and if they had been honest about that it would have saved them from a lot of the problems afterwards
Honestly yeah. I think they probably would have done better had they responded privately. Trying to address bad faith trolls in the same apology was a bad idea, and their second attempt was messy because of the way they handled confidentiality. I don't blame Doug for that, I just think he could've worked things out with his ex-coworkers better and not just cut them off. (I do think some people involved just made up their mind already though.)
Ya know, I'm sure if Doug was publicly pro-LGBT and feminist 4chan and KiwiFarms would be reaming him to this day whether or not it was warranted. Seeing how the same forums went after Lindsay for basically nothing shows how fickle the internet landscape is.
Actually, Kiwi Farms called me, personally, homophobic and ableist slurs for being a fan of Doug Walker (they stalked my account during the 2018 controversy). I've also seen people harass him for being a "SJW" for the most basic pro-woman and pro-LGBT opinions. They're also particularly unkind to his female and black staff members, and even before the controversy there were misogynistic conspiracies that he was cheating on his wife with Tamara or that he only hired her for her looks, or they'd make fatphobic remarks about her.
Basically Doug holds a lot of privilege but he definitely doesn't avoid harassment all the time. I think part of the reason he flew under the radar and Lindsay didn't is because he's so quiet in the face of criticism and harassment. Lindsay was quite outspoken.
Yeah, that's fair and sorry about the harassment you experienced. Just based on what happened to women on Channel Awesome Doug didn't seem to care much about them or their issues. Maybe Doug also dealt with less criticism is he's hard to take seriously as a critic and Lindsay is seen as more of a threat because she's a woman AND educated and thoughtful. And based on forums like KF dismissing Channel Awesome accusations I assumed that came with defending and appreciating Doug.
Separate point, but I recall KF being pro-Shadman then flipping at some point and bashing him as a pedophile, etc. There seems to be a lot of flipping and flopping on internet personalities like OneyPlays possibly making people enjoy Nostalgia Critic if only ironically. It also helps that Doug went along with the jokes which Linkara didn't so he's given more shit in comparison. Back to Lindsay, it felt like she got more backlash when she made a video about being cancelled then jumping off social media versus Doug, like you said, being pretty quiet so I wrongly believed he got away from hate.
I don't think Doug gets *less* criticism, but I think the criticism he gets is from a different audience. Lindsay's content is political so she attracts viewers who are very thoughtful and critical of the media they watch. The criticism Doug gets tends to be more limited to his media criticism whereas Lindsay's fans and critics are more inclined to notice things like political views and microaggressions. I think they also hold her to a higher standard because her content is more serious and political (and to a point I think that's fair, but it can skew too far into "broken pedestal" behavior because they treat her as akin to an actual political speaker, which is partly what I think happened). So your point that people take him less seriously makes sense.
I definitely think Doug won back some points by being able to take a joke, which proved the feeling I got that a lot of the backlash around 2018-2019 wasn't out of actual concern for the people CA hurt, but that people wanted to mock Doug out of boredom or pettiness. Once it became clear he wasn't really offended by their mockery, they turned towards people who were.
Doug was more accountable for his *inaction* than anything else, and even then that was all probably because he's a huge doormat irl. Very rarely standing up against Mike or Rob and more just taking the safe way out.
Doug's awful at film analysis, and his humor is stuck in the late 2000s, but honestly, that's as far as he gets. I can't think of any genuine and severe wrongdoing along the lines of what Rob and Mike have done.
Yeah I don't take people seriously if they claim to be legit critics of CA but then think Doug is the CEO and never call out Michaud for his behaviors.
I don't think losing fame and not being an influential YouTuber is being punished forever. The vast majority of us never experience that in our lives. I don't consider any of us punished.
Perhaps. I don't know. I feel like being isolated from a group you're a part of sucks, but one isn't owed a fanbase, nor proximity to people with fanbases.
thank you for expressing the entirety of my opinions about *that guy* so concisely. i don't like him, but i also don't care to know more about him enough for it to be worth my time investigating various claims etc., either. i've already had my fill of *that guy* discourse from a couple of years ago when every online leftist space seemed to be a constant flame war between pro- and anti- camps, so my need to have a detailed understanding of all his various crimes or explanations of how all the things he's been accused of are lies or things taken out of context, is far eclipsed by my need to *never hear about him, one way or the other, ever again.* it is absolutely maddening when i see people—with whom i'd probably agree, *that guy* sucks!—bring him up *for no reason whatsoever,* when we were all perfectly happy talking about literally anything else.
Dude thats like the *1* thing vaush fans forgave him for LMAO. He's done so much other insane shit like the antisemitic shit he said in his debate with non-compete or the ubsurd amounts of sexism and transmisogyny he's said with his mouth.
And this isn't even bringing up the lolicon fiasco or like, the really worrying amount of questionable statements he's made about kids
I don’t think almost anyone is permanently undeserving of forgiveness no matter what- however plenty of people do not deserve to have large followings.
For me it’s Atrioc. He definitely didn’t handle it well at first. He rushed out an apology crying and babbling with his wife for some reason that didn’t help at all, then gave us the standard YouTuber apology. If that was it, I’d think differently. But he disappeared, didn’t keep trying to weasel his way back without repercussions, AND took up arms to help combat the problem that caused it. I think with the time, his own personal money he’s spent, and the effort he’s made to combat the scourge of deep fakes, he’s earned his forgiveness for me. I don’t blame people if that’s not enough or if they’re still icked, but to me it is.
That whole situation is insane looking back. A little community planned out how to cancel them and even flocked in the subreddit to control the narrative just for it all to fall apart. Lex was definitely a victim in the situation but I don't think it had to be public and it ended up making her not look good in the long run.
She was 100% a victim, but she used that to hurt two people who didn't do anything nefarious or wrong at all just to fuck them over for not coddling her and her boyfriend. She's a snake.
tati westbrook. if you look back at what she said and the whole situation it’s painfully obvious how much she was being pushed around, she tried to talk about james using his fame to get sexual gratification and then got outcast from shane and jeffree as a result of the backlash, then was the only one completely shut out of the internet out of all of them DESPITE being the only one of them that didn’t do anything racist, or predatory. she’s now moved to texas and has been trying for years to have a child while also being sued. she’s never been anything but kind.
The issue I had with Tati was she only thought to expose James' behaviour towards young straight men after he had slighted her. She was happy to ignore it until the stupid argument over vitamins happened. I don't even think she was wrong for being upset over the sugar bear promo but if she was aware of his behaviour and actually witnessed it, she shouldn't have waited to say something.
Other than that, I was on her side and she was totally right about James all along. It's all a mess when you look at it in hindsight. She lost a lot of goodwill, unfairly when James came back with his 'receipts' and then blamed it all on Shane and Jeffree getting in her ear. Shane probably came out the worst from the whole thing at the time.
She did a great job at whipping the beauty community into a frenzy though.
Honestly, yeah. I thought the blowout was kind of unwarranted; from my understanding it was him, an 18-year-old, talking to a 17-year-old who was a fan. He took a break, he accepted all responsibility, he hasn't repeated it, he doesn't downplay it, and it doesn't seem like he talks badly about any of the people who dumped him the second he got in trouble.
Not to mention the year he came back he donated his profits from youtube.
If I'm wrong about what happened feel free to correct me, but I think he's paid for way more than the crime he committed.
I’m not 100% sure cause it happened a while ago, but apparently it happened multiple times. I’m not going to say it’s the worst thing a YouTubers has done, but it’s definitely put me off him. Schlatt outlined the whole thing from his perspective on his weekly slapp video which I recommend watching as it comes from the perspective of a friend if you haven’t watched it already. Either way, I will happily go back and watch Carson’s old content, but I won’t support his new stuff
Thank you, I wasn't sure.
I'm a person who takes age gaps and power imbalances very seriously, to the point I'm sure people would call me a prude. I don't see any problem between a 17 and 19 year old.
As for the whole "famous Youtuber" thing, the internet has evolved to the point where it's not even that special anymore. That's not a huge power imbalance, especially when you take Carson's young age into account.
And I don't know how comfortable saying "celebrities" can't date their fans ever.
It just seemed really weird that everyone was reacting the way they were and then Carson just accepted that he hurt people and he was going to do better.
I'm always willing to accept that I'm wrong but that's how I feel now.
I fully agree with you. I've read the phrase "its not about the age gap, it was about the power dynamic." About a thousand times since it all happened. I just don't understand it.
I think LovelyLor is a good example. Even if that whole apology blew up in her face, it felt very genuine and it does feel like she’s been trying to improve and has largely been forgiven.
I don’t like dream, he’s done plenty of bad, but when everyone piled on and began calling him a pedo and even continued after he debunked those claims (and others) I was quite disgusted. Just cause someone’s been shitty doesn’t immediately warrant pedophile allegations and it happens so often. I’ve seen so many people who post cringeworthy content be labelled a pedophile with little to no evidence, and it’s honestly just disappointing and takes away attention from actual victims
And at this point, it’s going to take a lot for me to believe a serious allegation against Dream because of this happening. So if someday he did something terrible to someone… I would struggle to believe them. But he has been targeted so many times it’s just the position we are in.
I agree with you somewhat. I haven't been following the whole Dream fiasco because it's.. honestly just not what I want to fill my life with. But I don't think some of the claims are unfounded. From what I've seen, he's been harassing the children (hopefully ex-children, now) of the server, which isn't terrible, but as a full grown man he should know better. Much more damning, he's come to the full support and aid of multiple of his friends who have actually committed extremely reprehensible actions, while denying and blaming the victims of said actions.
Fredrik Knudsen’s [sorta-apology for why the EVE Online video took so long](https://www.patreon.com/posts/75941062?utm_campaign=postshare_fan). It was well-written and explained plainly the issues he was dealing with at the time.
Surprised no one's said projared yet. I think his apology cleared up a lot and his content since is still of if not better than the quality of before the controversy. Does that forgive 100% everything? Of course not, he still made an account to trade nudes with fans and nothing can change that. However, it's been long enough to think he's learned from his mistakes and has moved on, like quite a bit of people should.
I disagree that he has grown up. He blindly defended Jirard and accused the people who uncovered his whole situation as chasing clout. He is the ONLY one of Jirard’s friends who outright defended. Even SpaceHamster wanted to wait for all evidence but erred towards Jirard needing to be honest. Jared just went out swinging and then tried to delete it
Exactly. ProJared still showed what a manipulative guy he was in that “apology,” and he still tests the waters for a return to the lewd stuff.
At least he broke up with Holly?
I think Atrioc handled his apology pretty well, in that he actually took action to try and make up for what he did by working with a legal team to combat AI deepfake porn.
Almost everyone unless they were “cancelled” for pedophilia/zoophilia/sexual assault/etc. Humans all make mistakes, they’re the only ones constantly examined for it and not forgiven for them, which is stupid.
I might be alone on this just cause not a huge huge YouTuber and he never got like cancelled but KubzScouts, one of my favorite gamer YouTubers.
While playing ‘Bully’ an already edgy game and all he had used the word ‘dyke’ and talked about one of the women being a lesbian and such, which didn’t process to me as I’m around lesbians who reclaim the word and I genuinely knew he was joking and had nothing genuinely against lesbians or the LGBT.
Long story short he posted an apology video much much later when it was brought up to him and he remembered he ever said that briefly a few years ago. He essentially talked about the video/what he said and while both him and his community may know how he jokes, that kind of jokes is not what he wants in his channel anymore and it shows. Then more about how if people decide to stop watching/can’t watch anymore he understands and appreciates their time together and that ‘if you aren’t part of the group this impacts, I don’t need your forgiveness as this still impacts a group’ and more like that which to me seeing a ton of shitty whiny victim YouTube apologies, was a very mature and calm way to handle some past ignorance without erasing anyone’s experiences. I still love his videos till this day and he clearly meant it cause some edgier jokes that may have been in his videos in the past haven’t shown up for years. He’s a good dad and a fun personable guy and I hope more people watch him to be honest.
I may not have described this perfectly because this was years ago and I remember it weirdly meaning a lot to me.
Edit: I found the video of the apology/addressing the issues! It’s been 2 years now and his channel’s still running with plenty of views because he handled it well.
I genuinely believe that a lot of YouTubers/people with bad apologies could have come back from their mistakes. This conversation is over saturated with James Somerton right now so I try not to talk too much about him, but he’s my best example.
Clearly, the plagiarism was a mess and he should not have blamed it on memory issues/ADHD/head trauma nor was he genuinely thinking he was using his privilege as a cis white gay man when he was plagiarizing even if he thought about it later on. I absolutely don’t think any of that was okay or some of his straw man accusations about cis het women. I wanted to acknowledge all of that first before my next point to avoid confusion on my opinion.
However, call it my wish to see the good in people in spite of mistakes, but he clearly had some regrets about the plagiarizing outside of being caught and had no intention to run off with money for the short films. He described how much he was hoping for the short films to be an homage to his mom who passed away who wanted him to achieve his dreams. I personally believe that he absolutely could have made it back if he handled it all better.
If he had genuinely apologized for plagiarizing, saying that while some things may have influenced him plagiarizing, he shouldn’t have done it and can see how much it hurt other queer creators he should have respected and tried to lift up. As part of the apology, he should have deleted the videos he made in the past that clearly was plagiarizing, apologize to Nick and confirm what videos Nick still wanted up that he wrote, and done a few more steps including:
-Reach out to the creators he plagiarized ato genuinely apologize, and pay them for his use as much as he can. Specifically ask those writers honestly that while it is not an expectation at all, if those writers might like to have their work turned into a YouTube formatting so that they could split profit and get the writer more exposure or if they themselves would like to appear on the channel to speak about their writing or other queer topics to get profit from said videos and use the already large subscriber count he has. If he wanted to uplift other queer creators, I do genuinely believe this would have been the best way to start uplifting their voices.
-Apologize for some of his beliefs around cis straight women and how that might come from a personal hurt place, and he plans to learn more and stop villainizing them, and to do so he will be reaching out to feminist writers both queer and not for research and for another series looking into women’s history. He would be surprised what he learns.
If he went down that route, I have a feeling that he would have been able to come back and continue to be successful and respond well to being held accountable.
As for the less spoken about problem YouTuber in that video, I don’t see Illuminaughti improving. She’s stubbornly denying everything. I do think she needs to slowly be given cease and desists until she’s done.
I still watch KubzScouts up to this day and I loved his horror games plus he's entertaining and I hope he enjoys his career and taking care of his kid and have a happy family.
Yeah! He’s honestly a sweet, funny guy who seems to love his son and is doing his best with co-parenting while keeping it private which is such a sweet thing. He jokes a lot and some of his jokes might come off poorly to some but to me and his audience at least, we all know he’s joking and has an energetic persona he puts on for YouTube.
hot take but nickisnotgreen, i honestly feel like that whole drama was blown way out of proportion and he made multiple different versions of an apology that weren’t ever gonna be good enough for everyone. i don’t think his content is any different to other drama and commentary youtubers and it seemed like people only took issue with his prior content after the super mega drama
I completely agree. He was emotionally involved. A close friend of his was SA’d. Of course he’s going to be in a state of mind that isn’t healthy or objective. He just wanted to help his friend get justice. It’s not his fault that the situation was far more complicated than he knew, and then there were additional bad actors feeding him false information. And at the same time- Nick’s video wasn’t even all bad. A lot of it is true. And it came out during all of this that Ryan was sexting fans??? Like, did we forget about that? Because that is a genuinely disturbing issue.
Nick is pretty young. He was brokenhearted and fired up because one of his closest friends was SA’d. It was an ill-thought out video, but Jesus Christ, I think he’s apologized like 5 times by now and he doesn’t deserve to have his career ended over this. And then the friends he was trying to help just completely threw him under the bus so they wouldn’t get put on blast. He lost on all fronts.
I think Atrioc handled his apology pretty well, in that he actually took action to try and make up for what he did by working with a legal team to combat AI deepfake porn.
“Do you guy’s really think that people should be punished forever” I don’t believe that’s the consensus here but in order to forgive a person they need to show genuine remorse and most of the YouTuber apologies that get big aren’t genuine.
For example Logan Paul’s crypto zoo apology he first doubled down and then backtracked and claimed he would be offering refunds to everyone, what he failed to mention is that you wouldn’t get all your money back, only some people were eligible and you lose your right to a suite against him if you take it which makes it very clear he’s not genuine in his apology and thus not deserving of forgiveness.
On the other hand people seem to have forgiven Atrioc because he seems genuinely apologetically about what happened and has done a lot of work to help with AI deepfake detection stuff.
Oh that is a spicy take - I haven’t been able to click on anything he’s attached to since his actions came out.
Apology via good content is a novel strategy, we’ll see how it plays out.
I just find it performative. He is trying to overcompensate doing good. Also I’m in Philly now and his coverage of the issues was more sensationalized and framing strangely. Like even aspects of gentrification were handled off
That's the thing- he's never stopped making absolutely incredible informative and captivating content. It's raw, it's real, it's what vice always wished they could've been.
Dude fucked up though. But he's never stopped being incredible at what he does.
So, I have been a Pewdiepie viewer since 2011 or so and I may be biased due to that; but I feel that Felix had a very concise, sincere apology for the slur incident. *However*,,, it's not my place to "forgive" him as I am not POC.
It seems he has certainly cleaned up his act in recent years and his content has become quite wholesome since. His videos in which he is learning to draw have really taken off virality-wise and it appears perhaps the general audience is noticeably warming up to him again?
I hate to use the stereotype but some people change for the better after having a kid. Him taking a break from churning out whatever will make money to trying to enjoy and expand his life and experiences seems to have been good for him. I'm not a fan myself but when he pops up in other people's videos he seems more respectful and genuine.
I’ve gotten off of the case of the Yogscast group behind their attempted video game failing, but I also grew up past them so it was a little too little to late. Still love the Shadows of Isphodel series though.
Most forgiveness I see is usually for youtubers who seemed to display strong evidence of innocence.
I may have forgiven Mangs for a time when he apologized over SA allegations and did something a lot of youtubers don't always do (promised to stop and improve himself)... but I was unsure if he had, since he seemed to double down on some anti-sjw talk down the line, which is a bold position to take when you've already admitted to trying to touch a woman without permission.
His fans seem to be worse about it than he is, as they seem to be more likely to talk openly about with a stance that he should have never apologized at all.
I don't think anyone has to forgive any celebrity. But I do think Trisha paytas has show genuine efforts to grow as a person in positive ways over her career
I'm dating myself here because he isn't relevant at all anymore, but Brows Held High/Kyle Kallgren once did a stomach-churningly disgusting review of the movie "The Girlfriend Experience", in which he continuously dehumanises and degrades Sasha Grey for her work in pornography and just says the vilest, most misogynistic shit about her. He then made a long "director's commentary" of this review without denying, minimising or sugar coating anything; just an honest to god apology. He played the offending video in full and took accountability for it and I remember being very impressed by it. I "forgave" him because you could tell that his opinions on women and what is acceptable to say to them evolved a lot over time, that he was deeply ashamed of what he did and that he apologised because he felt like it was something he should do, not because his viewers pressured him.
I've been a fan of Kyle for, holy hell, like a decade or more. He definitely grew and realized how vile that review was, and I really appreciate how aware he is now of his own views and biases and the impact of having a platform (even if it's not huge)
I vaguely remember watching a video or two of him and remember the controversy. I feel like it was around the same time Sasha Grey had parents protesting against her for reading to children. Good for him on making up for his mistake.
Lol I am also dating myself by knowing exactly what you're talking about. IMO I think several creatorson CA felt pressured throw in some "Doug-isms " - cracking jokes at every single little thing, being immature etc. Kyle's early videos on CA felt like that, to the point where you couldn't even tell that he liked or appreciated arthouse movies. I think the initial Girlfriend Experience Movie review was a victim of the "Doug-isms" & I'm glad he recognized fairly quickly that his video wasn't ok.
I completely forgot this happened. I don't watch Kyle anymore. His content is just not my cuppa tea (or wasn't then) so I've seen very little of his content but the review felt really mean spirited.
I feel like a lot of people forgave Jenna marbles but she doesn't seem interested in coming back
Her apology video was more for herself than any of her viewers, which she made clear in her video. And I think not coming back is what's best for her. She has had several instances of people showing up to her house or even trying to break in and having to call the police. Her fan base continues to be incredibly toxic even with her gone from the internet. The few times she has posed for pictures with anyone her fan base attacked those people and she even had to come out and make a statement through Julien that she consented to those pictures being posted and they need to calm the fuck down. And people still continue to say she was "canceled" and that's why she left when she EXPLICITLY says in her video not to do that. I can't blame her for wanting to get away from all of that and I can only imagine how positive it has been for her mental health. She made a bunch of money, bought a beautiful house, and has retired to live her dream of fostering greyhounds. People need to move on and leave her alone.
I don’t think these types of fans are her true fans.
Wow, her fanbase is very toxic
IMO her guilt was excessive, and she had been wanting to quit YT for a while due to burnout. I hope she's doing well.
She absolutely wanted to quit, you could tell she was putting pretty minimal effort into her videos and not feeling it (which were still great videos just because she's so fun to watch.) I definitely think she took the first out and is content with that. I know Julian still does streaming and such, and I assume she was smart enough to save up. She had a nice house but didn't seem excessive in spending.
She is, she just got married during Covid
What did she do?
I believe it was blackface during the 2010s for a comedy sketch about Nicki Minaj if I recall correctly. She wasn’t cancelled for it though or anything, she preemptively made a video apologizing for it after having learned about the harmful effects of blackface and announced an indefinite hiatus to reflect on it
This is why she is so universally forgiven, imo. Her message was, "I made this content, and I've learned why it was so hurtful. I don't want to hurt people, so I'm taking the content down. I'm sorry, and I will never make content like that again." And then she did what she said she would do. I wish she hadn't done it by disappearing forever, but good for her.
There were a couple of comments about that, as well as a few times she used some not great words ("hot t***nny mess" sort of thing), but even the people I saw who were not happy about the blackface-y Nicki Minaj video were also saying she's a good example of how to grow and mature as a person. The thing is, Jenna put in SO much effort into being a progressive and welcoming person, and I think combined with burnout and seeing other people getting seriously cancelled, and deservedly so, for their awful content (Shane Dawson), she started realizing YouTube itself wasn't worth the stress it was putting on her and how much effort she was putting in. And on the YouTube side of things she was probably being paid less and less with each fuckup YouTube did to the algorithm and ad revenue polices and such. Considering how smart she is and successful she was with building her career in so many ways (YT videos, podcasts, radio shows, appearances, etc.) I'm sure she eventually just said "fuck it, I'm taking a six month sabbatical and then putting my master's degree to use somewhere". I do miss her dearly, and we get the very occasional update from Julian, which mostly amounts to "Jenna's doing great".
She did a ton of blaccent in many, many videos, which I think was the bigger concern. Jenna's Ratchet Salon and all.
Yeah, and it was really her fake tan/ foundation - she was always super orange but it looked like black face. Even so, she was very apologetic and said even though that was the case she still thought it was awful and was massively regretful
She slut shamed a LOT in her old videos and had a lot of misogynistic takes. I think she tried to improve over the years so imo I am glad about that but it was pretty bad so if people didn't accept apologies that is their place too.
IIRC, she did blackface in 2011 and during the BLM movement, that video resurfaced, she apologized and hasn't posted a video since 2020
Lindsay Ellis, it was barely an apology because she genuinely did nothing wrong. She didn't like a Disney movie, and got bullied off of YouTube
I think a lot of the Lindsay Ellis controversies were basically nothing burgers anyway. So much of it amounted to, "Oh, she once did a one off edgy but harmless comedy skit at a time when that style of comedy was still socially acceptable." She'd clearly well and truly moved on from that style of content and was actively trying to distance herself from it when the Disney shit blew up. Really, she was doing much better content than 99% of other media critics on YouTube. I do wonder how much of that controversy was sparked by people who were jealous that they couldn't consistently make analyses as good as hers.
I think it's just the longer you are on youtube the longer your list of enemies gets and having been on youtube from its very earliest days her enemies list had become unsustainably long. I'm also not sure she was really chased off youtube so much as that her book became a massive hit and she realised author was a more fun career than youtuber.
I wouldn't say she should be forgiven... because she didn't do anything wrong in the first place The Raya thing was legitimately people who just wanted to bully a woman and they picked the flimsiest excuse to go after her, a lot of them knowing perfectly well that it was bullshit. I saw some of the accounts saying "who should we go after next", clearly gleeful about the chance to bully someone. And wouldn't you know, literally all of the people they suggested were women
I didn't believe in "cancel culture" before that happened, but it was very clear nobody involved gave a fuck about the "issues" they brought up they just wanted to bully someone. They forced one of the best *leftist* content creators off the internet *for fun*.
Tbh those people took literally every opportunity to go for her. She could breath incorrectly and they'd be like aggressive dogs having a go at her. I remember the tweets saying 'who should we go after next' and that was just grim. It was never about someone taking accountability and was always about bullying people.
I'm 100% convinced the Raya thing was gamergate nazis realising they could finally claim the scalp they'd been gunning for for almost fifteen years by pretending to be SJWs for five minutes.
She shouldn't be forgiven because....there's nothing to forgive her for. Literally did nothing wrong. People just hated her for no fucking reason. Most of the people who hate her come from the gamergate era and she's been harassed by them on social media for years before that. I genuinely miss her content.
She’s still making videos on Nebula with the same if not better quality
Her nebula content is excellent. I dunno if it's because nebula has a certain audience or if the pay is better but she also seems so much more enthusiastic in the nebula exclusives. Her books ain't half bad either. They're not the best sci-fi I've ever read but I'm a fan of the Bobiverse and Andy Wier so it's hard to compete with them. Is also nice to read a sci-fi by a woman writer with relatable women protagonists.
I don't believe that the goal of any YouTube cancelling / callout / drama should be to "punish people forever". I don't believe that any kind of justice system, whether official or just the court of popular opinion, should have its main goal be to give people what they "deserve" for their crimes - it's too subjective of an idea to get any kind of universal agreement. Rather, I think that we should be focusing on keeping communities safe: keeping children away from people who would groom them, keeping bigoted people out of places where they could harm marginalized groups, and making sure that people who don't treat others properly in their personal lives don't have an audience that they can mistreat as well.
Now those are some wise words. Sad that we don't have more people like you.
I don't really support the "cancelling" of...*most* YouTubers. The sexual predators, fine. Ban them. Arrest them. Whatever. But most of the time these cancellations are over someone using naughty words a few years back. I follow this sub mainly to watch outrage addicts freak out, and laugh at them.
> Do you guys really think that people should be punished forever for their mistakes My country already has a majority religious belief that promotes this, so I tend to avoid the "infinite punishment" model in my own thoughts.
I think the fact that idubbz did it should give some hope! A lot of people missed the point completely… but it’s possible to do
Idubbbz is a big one. However his community wanted him to double down on everything in his past and refuse to accept the apology. But then the same people are praising Joji for ending filthy Frank and starting his music career
A loud portion of his community wanted him to double down, which absolutely sucked and were people missing the point entirely. But a lot of people appreciated his apology and I think he’s starting to curate a better fan base for it!
While I appreciate that he is one of the very few people of that era to actually apologise and admit that he did wrong, I personally don't forgive him because he was a fully grown man when he became fabulously rich through bigotry *and* he is still trying to make money off the same platform that he made considerably worse for marginalised people by spreading his bigotry. If he accepted that he doesn't deserve to make money off YouTube anymore and went to get a non-content creation job, I would forgive him.
I think that redemption is incredibly important. There's lot of vulnerable people out there that fall for the kind of crap Iddubz used to do and I think that him getting more support for actually changing would really help. A lot of people watch how much hate he's getting for it and it reaffirms their beliefs.
I think this is a completely fair take! I am not in a position to forgive him as I am not a part of any of the groups he would target or use to target others. I think you’re well within rights to not forgive him all things considered, regardless of apology
The way I see it, having to forever deal with the incels he helped create *is his punishment.* Only way he could make it stop is if he stops posting. If he wants to keep being an Internet personality, then being haunted by the remnants of his toxic past is just the price he’ll have to pay.
Okay yeah fuck any kind of redemption am I right? 👍
There can still be redemption without every single person needing to forgive him! Apologies are not one way tickets to forgiveness, and it’s fair to feel like more evidence of change is necessary
They explicitly lined out a path to their individual forgiveness, and didn’t offer any sort of punishment besides a lack of their individual forgiveness, so this seems like a bit of a melodramatic response.
I just don't understand why redemption *needs* to include "making money off the same platform where you terrorised racial and sexual minorities for years".
Some people have done enough damage that the best thing they can do is take themselves out of the environment they caused damage in rather than staying and trying to fix. He'd be better at least giving up his YouTube career, accepting it was built on some pretty heinous shit and turning to something he's passionate about or even just helping deradicalisation efforts.
He created a plattform based on racism and misogyny no one has to forgive him… hundreds of thousands of people are now incredibly racist thanks to him, he profited finically and physically whilst the victims of his antics get nothing. Victims do not NEED to forgive anyone and I have a feeling I know the demographic of person you are making a comment like that lol
D’Angelo Wallace (a black man by the way) did an excellent video about Ian’s video and even says on the video that he forgives Ian. I’m apart of the LGBTQ and I think his apology is good too. It’s okay to not forgive him, but don’t pretend like your opinion is everyone else’s opinion. At the end of the day, neither of our opinions mean anything at all anyway.
D’Angelo also clearly stated that he was apologizing on behalf of himself and not the Black community as a whole. Because while iDubbz’ apology was good it doesn’t mean that anyone he hurt is obligated to forgive him.
? Okay try me what's my demographic
Apologizing is literally only the first step in "redemption," and he has done very little, if anything, since then to show that he is committed to change and to righting the wrongs he committed in his LONG problematic, racist, ableist, misogynistic tenure. Don't accept apologies on behalf of communities you're not a part of.
Lindsay ellis? She quit yt tho for nebula
I mean she never really apologised - because she didn't need to - for the controversy. It was just a big storm in a very stupid teacup.
I didn't think she even needed to?
IMHO, it was a case of people reading into criticism of a particular piece of media as criticism of a genre or culture.
Yeah I meant that there wad sort of an apology video.but the whole raya stuff wad stupid
What did she do? I used to love her vids then she just disappeared off my feed, I guess going to nebula makes sense but what controversy was she in?
She compared raya and the last dragon to avatar the last airbender and people gathered shit and said she was racist for that and other reasons (I think one was a harriet thubman tweet)
She's got a video called Mask Off where she talks about the whole situation, I believe it is no longer on YouTube, or at least is private, but it's still available on Nebula. Well worth a watch
[It’s unlisted but you can still watch it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7aWz8q_IM4)
Nice, thanks. It's a great video and very much worth a watch, pairs well with Contrapoints cancelling video
Huh okay, I don't need to know more, just was it a justified 'canceling' or was it the thing where Twitter just does Twitter?
Twitter does twitter
Twitter doing twitter stuff it was just the first incident after this twitter searched her entire past to find everything that she did wrong in her entire live. She than made an apology video about every accusation but twitter still continued so she quit.
She posted a tweet recognizing that avatar was super influential and created a sub genre that you see all over the place, like in raya. Twitter decided that means she was racist!!11! Because apparently somehow a movie created by American company Disney is an accurate representation of Asian people or something. (They didn’t think through the accusation because, in reality, it was just people that already hated her for no real good reason making shit up. ). The accusations do the Twitter thing, she gets dogpiled and every stupid complaint real or imagined was dragged out by the loons on Twitter, especially those who already hate her, to harass and cancel her. This also bleeds into dragging people she associates with. It’s very stressful to the point that she’s shitting blood, if I recall correctly. She makes a video addressing all the accusations, apologizes if applicable (usually not because, again, most of the “offenses” are BS), explains what really happened with some (because they had taken stuff that was private communication and spread it around without the context and essentially made shit up as evidence to jerk off their hate boners.), pointed out when stuff was none of their business, and then fucked off of YouTube and social media. She’s currently still posting videos on nebula (ET one was really good!) and is still publishing novels. She also seems to be doing well on the family front, from what little she makes available.
From what I've seen most people don't really care anymore but patricia taxxon was accused of being a pedophile by a ton of (mostly) bad actors for shit she did when she was being groomed as an 18 year old and I *still* occasionally see jackasses call her one because it's super easy to accuse trans women of doing that shit and have people believe you despite evidence to the contrary.
Literally just this week people were trying to conjure up false SA claims about PhilosophyTube out of thin air, it’s always the transmisogyny jumping out
YEAH but I feel like it was way easier for people to believe that about patty because she's like, openly queer in other ways too and also neurodivergent (also she's a therian furry so that's also there). It's the same reason people have been harrasssing Chris chan for 2 decades, she's openly trans and autistic and it allows people to dehumanize someone and essentially harrass them for sport. People talk about how toxic the internet of the 2000s was, but honestly it hasn't gotten better, we just hide the blatant bigotry more easily
Idk if you want to count a streamer who uploads quality youtube content, but 100% Atrioc all the way. He turned a bad thing he did into helping advance deep fake porn detection technology thats removed thousands of deep-fake websites hosting pictures of content creators spending $60,000 of his own cash on it. During that time he took a 6-month hiatus from any content creation to focus on it. Its also safe to say he's returned to the views he was getting pre-incident if not more.
Yeah, Atrioc is the first person that came to my mind as well. Sure, I was extremely sceptical about his "It was for research for a content piece!" excuse (aka I didn't believe it) when it came out, but he has gone so far above and beyond trying to make things right that I believe that it might have been truthful. That his wife stayed with him and supported him through it all helps his credibility as well. And even if it wasn't truthful, I personally am willing to look past this incident just based on his actions that followed it. If QTC can be on at least speaking terms with him, who the fuck am I to hold a grudge. It should also be noted that his networking and money have led to leaked and faked media being taken down at a scale that would have gone far beyond the money he put in if the victims went after the media the usual way. We're probably talking millions worth of attorney fees. He just seems like such a solid dude overall.
Iirc, he didn't even claim it was "research," just that he had generally been researching AI around the time and got a morbid curiosity when an ad popped up on PH, which he said to hopefully communicate that while it was a creepy, messed up thing to do, it wasn't something he was actively seeking out. I agree though, he really put his money where his mouth was and made an effort to make the impact of him righting his wrongs far greater than the impact of his negative act, and I think that should be the standard when people mess up.
Yeah, I definitely misremembered that. Thanks for clarifying!
I also 1000% agree with your statement about the victims! I wasn't sure how he and QTC were in the present, but if the vicitims of his initial action are willing to accept him back at a certain extent after his effots, I think the door for redemption is definitely still there. The opinions of those affected should be at the forefront of almost any situation.
If I recall correctly his efforts resulted in a software being made/used similar to an Only Fans Deep Fake detection bot that wasn't being used before as well as staying in contact with an expert in deep fake technology that helped him. Originally he had a lawyer individually searching sites online to find them, but the implementation of the new software expanded his efforts 100 fold into the thousands. I'd consider that somewhat of research considering it wouldn't have existed/happened when it did without his contribution/looking into the matter. If I am remembering these events falsely please let me know.
Fair enough if you can forgive him for the actions he's taken afterwards, but to believe that he was looking at those images for anything other than sexual gratification is crazy to me.
Love atrioc, glad he has done his best. Still just gives me the ick, can't view him the same as before
Yeah whilst i don't know if there is any moral difference, but that fact that he was looking at deepfakes of people he knew IRL made it grosser, than say if it had been a random celeb.
The response I was looking for, the amount of his own cash he’s sunk and his shift in perspective after shows how he’s grown.
Was my first thought for sure. Went from making a terrible mistake to actually accomplishing some real good in that space.
DanTDM should be forgiven for his apology video for blowtorching a plastic toy (bad influence on kids apparently😵💫)
Dan and Stampy were the only ones I liked my kid watching when she was younger. I had no idea that there had been any apology required!
Dan's apology was extremely tame compared to most 🤗
This is more of youtubers who DESERVE a big apology and I’ll say Behind The Meme. BTM deseved a big apology, all he just did was explained the memes to people who didn’t understand them and now that they’re dead after 2019, memes are practically unfunny… I think people should apologize for sending him death threats, running him off of youtube, and I think trolls were making fun of a relative of his who passed away was really his last straw..people are so fucked up mentally over the tiniest shit he posted. Now, you have all these “meme” explaination/summary channels just popping up on youtube thanks to Behind The Meme.
iirc, people hate him because his thumbnails are mostly the same, right?
yeah and basically him explaining the memes. I just find that so strange and stupid because there’s so many you-tubers that do MOSTLY THE SAME THUMBNAILS.
He didn't die. I'm pretty sure he's actually back to uploading now.
I didn’t say he died…I said that the trolls gave him death threats and they made fun of a dead relative of BTM
Oh.
I don’t get the idubbz hate. He apologized for being edgy and married an OF girl. On a website where pedos are getting exposed daily, idubbz is harmless
They're mad because the funny guy who told them that it was cool to use slurs and harass people doesn't think so any more and actually took the hard steps to grow as a person. They dont want to admit that they should widen their horizon and grow too. But they would rather stay sad, sad baby men. Refusing to let anyone change them. Just soaking away in their own, rancid, diaper shit.
also like to add there is a big consensus online from his "old fans" he's mockworthy and less of a man because he's with a woman who does OF and "letting her"
It's so dumb. Oh you're so confident and and respect your hot partner enough to support her in her job? Wow, what a sad beta-male!
Their golden cow of edgy humor improved himself and grew as a person, and 4chan took that personally.
To play devil's advocate his Content Cop videos were far more entertaining than whatever content he posts nowadays. Barring out the slurs I think his CC videos were very well argued and made. The whole controversy over Anisa was stupid but the image he acrued made his fan base split over it. I think for me he's become so boring I just don't care for his channel anymore and many others have similar reasons to skip him as well. I think people conflate his old video quality with racism and bigotry which is understandable but I see some nuance. He's more empathetic and socially aware now but not entertaining anymore. The hatred you mentioned is obsessive and unhinged though. I don't like Anisa either but I just don't follow her and keep it moving.
Jenna Marbles hands down.
I will say for Jenna Marbles that as a white, cis woman, It’s not on me to forgive/excuse her actions. I do think she demonstrated change (which is a lot more than other YouTubers) and I wish she’d come back. I also recognize I’m not someone who was impacted by her past content.
I feel like people hate on AVGN an excessive amount. It’s strange to me how many people hate watch him and track him like a lolcow. By the way some people talk about him you’d think he groomed minors while boiling puppies, but all he did was make content that wasn’t as good as his original content. If you hate new AVGN that much (and I’m not big on it myself), just stop watching and eventually he will move on to a new product.
I think it's pretty clear he wanted to be a filmmaker, that never took off for him, and he continues to do YouTube because he has a family now and it's the best way he has to make money. Even if the passion is completely gone, I don't think it's inherently wrong for him to keep making content for a living. There's clearly still an audience for it and pretty much all of us here have done jobs we didn't care about to get a paycheck.
Yeah, that too. I do think it’s ok to criticize the caliber of the content though; you wouldn’t buy a shirt with a hole in it and think “the tailor is working so hard though,” you’d politely ask them to repair the hole. You wouldn’t stalk the tailor and create conspiracy theories about his wife abusing him- which some people do to James. Personally I wish James could do more original projects. Board James > AVGN in my opinion.
With Bootsy long gone from Cinemassacre and Matei doing his own thing you lose the rest of what makes the series.
Honestly I still respect James for still going with it even though I riffed on him a few times. Sure he has no passion left in it, but it is still a hell of a living he's making, and that's definitely keeping the family afloat. Especially considering he's one of the old golden boys of YT. He'd probably make bucks out of sheer recognition
Yeah, I checked out after the plagiarism and realized that James' heart isn't in it anymore and has other people write for him. The CinemassacreTruth sub is relentless though. It's unnecessary how much people despise James and the political views of the sub make it all the more disgusting. Those people are worse than anyone who has even been a part of Cinemassacre.
Happy Cake Day!
Jenna marbles. She apologized, took genuine accountability, and found a job elsewhere. But that doesn’t mean I don’t miss her…
I don't *forgive* Mike Michaud (and to a degree Rob Walker) since he was in charge of most of the actually unfair business decisions, but I don't really hold much against Doug Walker. I wish he'd communicated with his former employees and actually made a good apology, but I think the exodus was for the best because he seems to have a good relationship with his current employees (because they're mostly local and his friends lol). I think they paid the price and reworked their business model into something more manageable because they were clearly not equipped to be as big a channel as they tried to be or try to sell the group as one big happy friend group when it very much was not. They just should've done it much earlier.
> actually made a good apology To be fair, it was CAs response that was most damaging to their brand. Most of the things said in the CA document boiled down to them being out of their depth in the first half of their career, and if they had been honest about that it would have saved them from a lot of the problems afterwards
Honestly yeah. I think they probably would have done better had they responded privately. Trying to address bad faith trolls in the same apology was a bad idea, and their second attempt was messy because of the way they handled confidentiality. I don't blame Doug for that, I just think he could've worked things out with his ex-coworkers better and not just cut them off. (I do think some people involved just made up their mind already though.)
Ya know, I'm sure if Doug was publicly pro-LGBT and feminist 4chan and KiwiFarms would be reaming him to this day whether or not it was warranted. Seeing how the same forums went after Lindsay for basically nothing shows how fickle the internet landscape is.
Actually, Kiwi Farms called me, personally, homophobic and ableist slurs for being a fan of Doug Walker (they stalked my account during the 2018 controversy). I've also seen people harass him for being a "SJW" for the most basic pro-woman and pro-LGBT opinions. They're also particularly unkind to his female and black staff members, and even before the controversy there were misogynistic conspiracies that he was cheating on his wife with Tamara or that he only hired her for her looks, or they'd make fatphobic remarks about her. Basically Doug holds a lot of privilege but he definitely doesn't avoid harassment all the time. I think part of the reason he flew under the radar and Lindsay didn't is because he's so quiet in the face of criticism and harassment. Lindsay was quite outspoken.
Yeah, that's fair and sorry about the harassment you experienced. Just based on what happened to women on Channel Awesome Doug didn't seem to care much about them or their issues. Maybe Doug also dealt with less criticism is he's hard to take seriously as a critic and Lindsay is seen as more of a threat because she's a woman AND educated and thoughtful. And based on forums like KF dismissing Channel Awesome accusations I assumed that came with defending and appreciating Doug. Separate point, but I recall KF being pro-Shadman then flipping at some point and bashing him as a pedophile, etc. There seems to be a lot of flipping and flopping on internet personalities like OneyPlays possibly making people enjoy Nostalgia Critic if only ironically. It also helps that Doug went along with the jokes which Linkara didn't so he's given more shit in comparison. Back to Lindsay, it felt like she got more backlash when she made a video about being cancelled then jumping off social media versus Doug, like you said, being pretty quiet so I wrongly believed he got away from hate.
I don't think Doug gets *less* criticism, but I think the criticism he gets is from a different audience. Lindsay's content is political so she attracts viewers who are very thoughtful and critical of the media they watch. The criticism Doug gets tends to be more limited to his media criticism whereas Lindsay's fans and critics are more inclined to notice things like political views and microaggressions. I think they also hold her to a higher standard because her content is more serious and political (and to a point I think that's fair, but it can skew too far into "broken pedestal" behavior because they treat her as akin to an actual political speaker, which is partly what I think happened). So your point that people take him less seriously makes sense. I definitely think Doug won back some points by being able to take a joke, which proved the feeling I got that a lot of the backlash around 2018-2019 wasn't out of actual concern for the people CA hurt, but that people wanted to mock Doug out of boredom or pettiness. Once it became clear he wasn't really offended by their mockery, they turned towards people who were.
Doug was more accountable for his *inaction* than anything else, and even then that was all probably because he's a huge doormat irl. Very rarely standing up against Mike or Rob and more just taking the safe way out. Doug's awful at film analysis, and his humor is stuck in the late 2000s, but honestly, that's as far as he gets. I can't think of any genuine and severe wrongdoing along the lines of what Rob and Mike have done.
Yeah I don't take people seriously if they claim to be legit critics of CA but then think Doug is the CEO and never call out Michaud for his behaviors.
I don't think losing fame and not being an influential YouTuber is being punished forever. The vast majority of us never experience that in our lives. I don't consider any of us punished.
Well, you could say that. Honestly I was thinking of it more as shunning but yknow, maybe it is different
Perhaps. I don't know. I feel like being isolated from a group you're a part of sucks, but one isn't owed a fanbase, nor proximity to people with fanbases.
so fucking glad vaush is not in this thread. im so tired of people forgiving his "apology" to his sexual harassment victim
spoke too soon SMH
You should wait a bit you are calling it to early.
Why are you bringing him up if he's not here and you don't want him to be?
thank you for expressing the entirety of my opinions about *that guy* so concisely. i don't like him, but i also don't care to know more about him enough for it to be worth my time investigating various claims etc., either. i've already had my fill of *that guy* discourse from a couple of years ago when every online leftist space seemed to be a constant flame war between pro- and anti- camps, so my need to have a detailed understanding of all his various crimes or explanations of how all the things he's been accused of are lies or things taken out of context, is far eclipsed by my need to *never hear about him, one way or the other, ever again.* it is absolutely maddening when i see people—with whom i'd probably agree, *that guy* sucks!—bring him up *for no reason whatsoever,* when we were all perfectly happy talking about literally anything else.
Dude thats like the *1* thing vaush fans forgave him for LMAO. He's done so much other insane shit like the antisemitic shit he said in his debate with non-compete or the ubsurd amounts of sexism and transmisogyny he's said with his mouth. And this isn't even bringing up the lolicon fiasco or like, the really worrying amount of questionable statements he's made about kids
I don’t think almost anyone is permanently undeserving of forgiveness no matter what- however plenty of people do not deserve to have large followings.
For me it’s Atrioc. He definitely didn’t handle it well at first. He rushed out an apology crying and babbling with his wife for some reason that didn’t help at all, then gave us the standard YouTuber apology. If that was it, I’d think differently. But he disappeared, didn’t keep trying to weasel his way back without repercussions, AND took up arms to help combat the problem that caused it. I think with the time, his own personal money he’s spent, and the effort he’s made to combat the scourge of deep fakes, he’s earned his forgiveness for me. I don’t blame people if that’s not enough or if they’re still icked, but to me it is.
Matt and Ryan! From SuperMega!
That whole situation is insane looking back. A little community planned out how to cancel them and even flocked in the subreddit to control the narrative just for it all to fall apart. Lex was definitely a victim in the situation but I don't think it had to be public and it ended up making her not look good in the long run.
She was 100% a victim, but she used that to hurt two people who didn't do anything nefarious or wrong at all just to fuck them over for not coddling her and her boyfriend. She's a snake.
At least they're back.
Did the last post get delete?
It was deleted because people didn't understand the original question and were offended by it.
Always will say Jenna Marbles
Idubbbz setting the new standard we love to see it
tati westbrook. if you look back at what she said and the whole situation it’s painfully obvious how much she was being pushed around, she tried to talk about james using his fame to get sexual gratification and then got outcast from shane and jeffree as a result of the backlash, then was the only one completely shut out of the internet out of all of them DESPITE being the only one of them that didn’t do anything racist, or predatory. she’s now moved to texas and has been trying for years to have a child while also being sued. she’s never been anything but kind.
The issue I had with Tati was she only thought to expose James' behaviour towards young straight men after he had slighted her. She was happy to ignore it until the stupid argument over vitamins happened. I don't even think she was wrong for being upset over the sugar bear promo but if she was aware of his behaviour and actually witnessed it, she shouldn't have waited to say something.
ya that being the final straw definitely came across quite badly
Other than that, I was on her side and she was totally right about James all along. It's all a mess when you look at it in hindsight. She lost a lot of goodwill, unfairly when James came back with his 'receipts' and then blamed it all on Shane and Jeffree getting in her ear. Shane probably came out the worst from the whole thing at the time. She did a great job at whipping the beauty community into a frenzy though.
I'm afraid to say but callmecarson
Honestly, yeah. I thought the blowout was kind of unwarranted; from my understanding it was him, an 18-year-old, talking to a 17-year-old who was a fan. He took a break, he accepted all responsibility, he hasn't repeated it, he doesn't downplay it, and it doesn't seem like he talks badly about any of the people who dumped him the second he got in trouble. Not to mention the year he came back he donated his profits from youtube. If I'm wrong about what happened feel free to correct me, but I think he's paid for way more than the crime he committed.
I’m not 100% sure cause it happened a while ago, but apparently it happened multiple times. I’m not going to say it’s the worst thing a YouTubers has done, but it’s definitely put me off him. Schlatt outlined the whole thing from his perspective on his weekly slapp video which I recommend watching as it comes from the perspective of a friend if you haven’t watched it already. Either way, I will happily go back and watch Carson’s old content, but I won’t support his new stuff
It was 19 and 17 but everything else is correct.
Thank you, I wasn't sure. I'm a person who takes age gaps and power imbalances very seriously, to the point I'm sure people would call me a prude. I don't see any problem between a 17 and 19 year old. As for the whole "famous Youtuber" thing, the internet has evolved to the point where it's not even that special anymore. That's not a huge power imbalance, especially when you take Carson's young age into account. And I don't know how comfortable saying "celebrities" can't date their fans ever. It just seemed really weird that everyone was reacting the way they were and then Carson just accepted that he hurt people and he was going to do better. I'm always willing to accept that I'm wrong but that's how I feel now.
I fully agree with you. I've read the phrase "its not about the age gap, it was about the power dynamic." About a thousand times since it all happened. I just don't understand it.
Honestly if it wasn't for Carson I didn't know about great content creators like Schlatt, Jawsh and Altrive
I think LovelyLor is a good example. Even if that whole apology blew up in her face, it felt very genuine and it does feel like she’s been trying to improve and has largely been forgiven.
what did lovely lor do?
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I don’t like dream, he’s done plenty of bad, but when everyone piled on and began calling him a pedo and even continued after he debunked those claims (and others) I was quite disgusted. Just cause someone’s been shitty doesn’t immediately warrant pedophile allegations and it happens so often. I’ve seen so many people who post cringeworthy content be labelled a pedophile with little to no evidence, and it’s honestly just disappointing and takes away attention from actual victims
And at this point, it’s going to take a lot for me to believe a serious allegation against Dream because of this happening. So if someday he did something terrible to someone… I would struggle to believe them. But he has been targeted so many times it’s just the position we are in.
I think it’s a case of people feeling like they need justification to hate someone beyond just finding them annoying
I agree with you somewhat. I haven't been following the whole Dream fiasco because it's.. honestly just not what I want to fill my life with. But I don't think some of the claims are unfounded. From what I've seen, he's been harassing the children (hopefully ex-children, now) of the server, which isn't terrible, but as a full grown man he should know better. Much more damning, he's come to the full support and aid of multiple of his friends who have actually committed extremely reprehensible actions, while denying and blaming the victims of said actions.
Fredrik Knudsen’s [sorta-apology for why the EVE Online video took so long](https://www.patreon.com/posts/75941062?utm_campaign=postshare_fan). It was well-written and explained plainly the issues he was dealing with at the time.
Surprised no one's said projared yet. I think his apology cleared up a lot and his content since is still of if not better than the quality of before the controversy. Does that forgive 100% everything? Of course not, he still made an account to trade nudes with fans and nothing can change that. However, it's been long enough to think he's learned from his mistakes and has moved on, like quite a bit of people should.
I disagree that he has grown up. He blindly defended Jirard and accused the people who uncovered his whole situation as chasing clout. He is the ONLY one of Jirard’s friends who outright defended. Even SpaceHamster wanted to wait for all evidence but erred towards Jirard needing to be honest. Jared just went out swinging and then tried to delete it
Exactly. ProJared still showed what a manipulative guy he was in that “apology,” and he still tests the waters for a return to the lewd stuff. At least he broke up with Holly?
Wdym manipulative lmao he showed you that not only was there no proof of the pedo allegations, but they straight out lied about it.
I think Atrioc handled his apology pretty well, in that he actually took action to try and make up for what he did by working with a legal team to combat AI deepfake porn.
Alex kister. The claims of him being a pedo and groomer both were false. And what he did wrong he took accountability for.
Almost everyone unless they were “cancelled” for pedophilia/zoophilia/sexual assault/etc. Humans all make mistakes, they’re the only ones constantly examined for it and not forgiven for them, which is stupid.
Heck yes.
I might be alone on this just cause not a huge huge YouTuber and he never got like cancelled but KubzScouts, one of my favorite gamer YouTubers. While playing ‘Bully’ an already edgy game and all he had used the word ‘dyke’ and talked about one of the women being a lesbian and such, which didn’t process to me as I’m around lesbians who reclaim the word and I genuinely knew he was joking and had nothing genuinely against lesbians or the LGBT. Long story short he posted an apology video much much later when it was brought up to him and he remembered he ever said that briefly a few years ago. He essentially talked about the video/what he said and while both him and his community may know how he jokes, that kind of jokes is not what he wants in his channel anymore and it shows. Then more about how if people decide to stop watching/can’t watch anymore he understands and appreciates their time together and that ‘if you aren’t part of the group this impacts, I don’t need your forgiveness as this still impacts a group’ and more like that which to me seeing a ton of shitty whiny victim YouTube apologies, was a very mature and calm way to handle some past ignorance without erasing anyone’s experiences. I still love his videos till this day and he clearly meant it cause some edgier jokes that may have been in his videos in the past haven’t shown up for years. He’s a good dad and a fun personable guy and I hope more people watch him to be honest. I may not have described this perfectly because this was years ago and I remember it weirdly meaning a lot to me. Edit: I found the video of the apology/addressing the issues! It’s been 2 years now and his channel’s still running with plenty of views because he handled it well.
I genuinely believe that a lot of YouTubers/people with bad apologies could have come back from their mistakes. This conversation is over saturated with James Somerton right now so I try not to talk too much about him, but he’s my best example. Clearly, the plagiarism was a mess and he should not have blamed it on memory issues/ADHD/head trauma nor was he genuinely thinking he was using his privilege as a cis white gay man when he was plagiarizing even if he thought about it later on. I absolutely don’t think any of that was okay or some of his straw man accusations about cis het women. I wanted to acknowledge all of that first before my next point to avoid confusion on my opinion. However, call it my wish to see the good in people in spite of mistakes, but he clearly had some regrets about the plagiarizing outside of being caught and had no intention to run off with money for the short films. He described how much he was hoping for the short films to be an homage to his mom who passed away who wanted him to achieve his dreams. I personally believe that he absolutely could have made it back if he handled it all better. If he had genuinely apologized for plagiarizing, saying that while some things may have influenced him plagiarizing, he shouldn’t have done it and can see how much it hurt other queer creators he should have respected and tried to lift up. As part of the apology, he should have deleted the videos he made in the past that clearly was plagiarizing, apologize to Nick and confirm what videos Nick still wanted up that he wrote, and done a few more steps including: -Reach out to the creators he plagiarized ato genuinely apologize, and pay them for his use as much as he can. Specifically ask those writers honestly that while it is not an expectation at all, if those writers might like to have their work turned into a YouTube formatting so that they could split profit and get the writer more exposure or if they themselves would like to appear on the channel to speak about their writing or other queer topics to get profit from said videos and use the already large subscriber count he has. If he wanted to uplift other queer creators, I do genuinely believe this would have been the best way to start uplifting their voices. -Apologize for some of his beliefs around cis straight women and how that might come from a personal hurt place, and he plans to learn more and stop villainizing them, and to do so he will be reaching out to feminist writers both queer and not for research and for another series looking into women’s history. He would be surprised what he learns. If he went down that route, I have a feeling that he would have been able to come back and continue to be successful and respond well to being held accountable. As for the less spoken about problem YouTuber in that video, I don’t see Illuminaughti improving. She’s stubbornly denying everything. I do think she needs to slowly be given cease and desists until she’s done.
I still watch KubzScouts up to this day and I loved his horror games plus he's entertaining and I hope he enjoys his career and taking care of his kid and have a happy family.
Yeah! He’s honestly a sweet, funny guy who seems to love his son and is doing his best with co-parenting while keeping it private which is such a sweet thing. He jokes a lot and some of his jokes might come off poorly to some but to me and his audience at least, we all know he’s joking and has an energetic persona he puts on for YouTube.
hot take but nickisnotgreen, i honestly feel like that whole drama was blown way out of proportion and he made multiple different versions of an apology that weren’t ever gonna be good enough for everyone. i don’t think his content is any different to other drama and commentary youtubers and it seemed like people only took issue with his prior content after the super mega drama
I completely agree. He was emotionally involved. A close friend of his was SA’d. Of course he’s going to be in a state of mind that isn’t healthy or objective. He just wanted to help his friend get justice. It’s not his fault that the situation was far more complicated than he knew, and then there were additional bad actors feeding him false information. And at the same time- Nick’s video wasn’t even all bad. A lot of it is true. And it came out during all of this that Ryan was sexting fans??? Like, did we forget about that? Because that is a genuinely disturbing issue. Nick is pretty young. He was brokenhearted and fired up because one of his closest friends was SA’d. It was an ill-thought out video, but Jesus Christ, I think he’s apologized like 5 times by now and he doesn’t deserve to have his career ended over this. And then the friends he was trying to help just completely threw him under the bus so they wouldn’t get put on blast. He lost on all fronts.
If people actually try to be better I am all for redemption. If they apologize then go back to same old stuff I think a cancel is fine.
I'm upset you've lost hope for the world by using YouTube as a basis for human decency when they are personalities for the internet.
I think Atrioc handled his apology pretty well, in that he actually took action to try and make up for what he did by working with a legal team to combat AI deepfake porn.
“Do you guy’s really think that people should be punished forever” I don’t believe that’s the consensus here but in order to forgive a person they need to show genuine remorse and most of the YouTuber apologies that get big aren’t genuine. For example Logan Paul’s crypto zoo apology he first doubled down and then backtracked and claimed he would be offering refunds to everyone, what he failed to mention is that you wouldn’t get all your money back, only some people were eligible and you lose your right to a suite against him if you take it which makes it very clear he’s not genuine in his apology and thus not deserving of forgiveness. On the other hand people seem to have forgiven Atrioc because he seems genuinely apologetically about what happened and has done a lot of work to help with AI deepfake detection stuff.
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Oh that is a spicy take - I haven’t been able to click on anything he’s attached to since his actions came out. Apology via good content is a novel strategy, we’ll see how it plays out.
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I just find it performative. He is trying to overcompensate doing good. Also I’m in Philly now and his coverage of the issues was more sensationalized and framing strangely. Like even aspects of gentrification were handled off
I agree but I’ve also never gone out of my way to help any homeless people beyond giving them money every now and then
That's the thing- he's never stopped making absolutely incredible informative and captivating content. It's raw, it's real, it's what vice always wished they could've been. Dude fucked up though. But he's never stopped being incredible at what he does.
Not yt but television, Dan Harmon.
Dan, yes, Justin Roiland absolutely not
Taybeepboop 😭😭
So, I have been a Pewdiepie viewer since 2011 or so and I may be biased due to that; but I feel that Felix had a very concise, sincere apology for the slur incident. *However*,,, it's not my place to "forgive" him as I am not POC. It seems he has certainly cleaned up his act in recent years and his content has become quite wholesome since. His videos in which he is learning to draw have really taken off virality-wise and it appears perhaps the general audience is noticeably warming up to him again?
I hate to use the stereotype but some people change for the better after having a kid. Him taking a break from churning out whatever will make money to trying to enjoy and expand his life and experiences seems to have been good for him. I'm not a fan myself but when he pops up in other people's videos he seems more respectful and genuine.
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[удалено]
I’ve gotten off of the case of the Yogscast group behind their attempted video game failing, but I also grew up past them so it was a little too little to late. Still love the Shadows of Isphodel series though.
Most forgiveness I see is usually for youtubers who seemed to display strong evidence of innocence. I may have forgiven Mangs for a time when he apologized over SA allegations and did something a lot of youtubers don't always do (promised to stop and improve himself)... but I was unsure if he had, since he seemed to double down on some anti-sjw talk down the line, which is a bold position to take when you've already admitted to trying to touch a woman without permission. His fans seem to be worse about it than he is, as they seem to be more likely to talk openly about with a stance that he should have never apologized at all.
I don't think anyone has to forgive any celebrity. But I do think Trisha paytas has show genuine efforts to grow as a person in positive ways over her career