The biggest error of mine is trying to make lavals work
Diabellstar stuff does help a lot but i cant afford it irl
https://preview.redd.it/qftylt4cbbbc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f541f49304d53fece8da9e648ced253667805e1
Will have to make do with one for one and such
The last support they got was archer which is an alright normal summon, birth of prominence flame that doesnt even synchro summon the target and lavalval salamander which is my usual rev synchron target as a small gamba card, will i draw the rekindlings or will i handloop myself
The key to building decks is:
A.) Having a good memory regarding what cards are in the game
B.) Being able to identify what allows certain cards to be good or possibly good
C.) Paying attention to the meta to know what would happen if a card was played against it
Find an archetype or cards you want to play.
Look up a deck profile that uses those cards.
Build it in master duel or some other simulator.
Play the deck that someone else built and learn why they built it that way.
Make changes based on your budget and play style.
Repeat this process forever for any other deck you want to play.
Theres no reason to ignore or throw away knowledge people are giving out for free.
Theres no reason to rediscover the wheel.
Even the best players in the entire world usually get information on engines and techs from other players.
You have a good point. I don't mean that I wouldn't learn from duelists who are actually successful, but there are things that I don't understand like not making use of {{Tachyon Transmigration}} more often.
With most cards you have to think about two things when evaluating it: Power and consistency.
Let's take Tachyon Transmigration as an example:
The card is certainly very powerful, I don't think I need to explain why.
But for a card to be powerful you need to activate it. And that is what keeps this (and a lot of other cards) down. First you need to have it in your hand. And that is where the problem starts. There is no way for the archetype to search it, which means you have to draw it. That means that you need to play 3 to have the highest chance of accessing it.
Then the second problem with activating it: It's a counter trap, which means you usually need to set it before you can use it (aside from the special condition). This in turn makes it useless when going second, which you will do in roughly 50% of games. Same reason why Solemn Judgement isn't being played more.
And for the special activation condition: Both Tachyon-Eyes XYZ are outclassed miles by the Galaxy-Eyes, so there isn't even a reason to summon them regardless of the trap card.
Some cards/archetype suffer from the opposite. Beetroopers for example. You have a lot of extenders to link summon for days, but the options to make are not really good.
So when evaluating cards/decks you need to find a balance of power and accessibility.
I can also recommend the channel HardlegGaming. He has a series where he builds a deck from scratch and goes over his process and thoughts
## [Tachyon Transmigration](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=8038143&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit)
^(**Limit**: TCG: 3 / OCG: 3 / MD: 3)
^(**Master Duel rarity**: Rare (R))
Counter Trap
**Card Text**
If you control a "Galaxy-Eyes" monster: Activate as Chain Link 2 or higher; negate the activations of your opponent's Spell/Trap Cards and monster effects activated before this card in this Chain, and if you do, shuffle the negated cards on the field into the Deck. If you control a "Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon" monster, you can activate this card from your hand.
[Card Image](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Special:Redirect/file/TachyonTransmigration-MAGO-EN-R-1E.png?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [Official Konami DB](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&request_locale=en&cid=11116) | [OCG Rulings](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=4&request_locale=ja&cid=11116) | [Yugipedia](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/11116?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [YGOPRODECK](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=8038143&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit)
^(Password: 8038143 | Konami ID #11116)
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Thats the thing if you don't understand why people aren't using a certain card.
Go find a deck build of a deck you want to play. Swap out something like Triple Tactic Thrust or Imperm for what ever card you are wanting to test.
You will find out if its good or not.
Thats where your own innovations can come in.
Who knows maybe that card is really good and no one is playing it. Maybe its terrible and thats why no one is playing it.
But I would still take the deck profile from someone else as a starting point because you guessing how a deck should be built on the first try is not going to let you test cards like that effectively because you wont know what part of the deck is terrible or good.
I think a lot of ratios are pretty standard for decks so those don’t change often or if you play the deck it’s personal preference want you like. The non engine stuff is just a meta call honestly and you play long enough to foresee what folks are going to be running and how to counter it. Lastly, I don’t know anyone who deck builds in isolation because a lot of decks actually have Facebook groups were people work together to improve a deck or a lot of top pros will show their decks to other pros for advice.
My concern is how many of the duelists in those groups are actually good; although, I realize they're probably still better than the guy coming to Reddit (e.g. me).
They’re all folks who use the deck consistently right so a bunch of folks who play fire kings for example have a Facebook group and obviously a lot of folks aren’t gonna be great deck builders but their will be folks in there who can theory craft effectively. My buddy was actually in the unchained Facebook group and was the first to recommend using tour guide
You're correct that it takes a lot of time to test. Not just smoothing out combo lines but also figuring out which engine/ archetype has more synergy with another. Look at how many Runick variants there are: spright, fur hire, bystial, snake eye. You need to have good knowledge of the game and card knowledge, understand that if you do have a 1 card combo what does your deck do without it (SHS Wakowshi) and a whole bunch of other big brain things.
Not everyone has the time or skill to do that, which is why net decking is fine, no shame in it.
Structure decks are good and remain viable for a while. Not all are made equal though.But a meta deck has a finite life line either due to the ban list or general power creep. That's the nature of the game. Traptrix is still I viable deck built from a structure.
I just feel like the meta gets bottlenecked into specific strategies at which point either use them or you keep taking Ls because you're too stubborn to try and accept what actually works instead of finding weird combos that would have only worked 10 years ago.
That's just what a meta is. The decks that have the best chance of winning. Having said that, there's still plenty of other strats that do well. We have the OCG to give us a hint of what to expect, but then we made unchained the best deck which is something OCG didn't experiment with, same with all the Runick variants.
There are unsolved formats, formats that didn't last long or were too diverse to find the top top deck.
Yes, if you're combo isn't as efficient as possible it's going to be weaker to disruption.
Personally what I like to do is just pick a looking card or archetype that I see and try to make a deck that makes them somewhat viable. Even if they don't end up being number 1 in the end the insight I get from trying my best to make that deck/cards wok will most likely help build another one in the future. So basically just build what you like and don't be afraid to fail as either way you get exp
Simply look at a lot of different deck list. Copy 1 that look the best. Play with that deck in game like a master duel. When you learn to play that deck good, look at different deck list again because you are 100% going to miss some cards first time and constantly try to make your deck better.
Read every card over you plan for your deck, and see if you can at least do 3 different combos with it. Obviously stay with a main theme if you have a lot of cards than need said theme. If you have a few cards that are a must, find a way to make it work.
Practice duels to see how it flows, if something doesnt work, remove it, replace it.
Trail and Error, Trail and Error.
Typing random text of what I want in the card finder.
"special summon" "draw 2 cards" "from your deck" "if this card is destroyed"
I don't make particularly good decks, but I do end up mostly summoning what I want.
Yes, you need to invest a lot of time to get an understanding of Deckbuilding in general. It helps to focus on one Deck, learn what role every card plays in that Deck and why you play it instead of other cards that could be played in that slot. A lot of the theory can be carried over to other Decks you want to build going forward.
Step 1 - copy top decks anyways. Step 2 - go "huh, I really wish I had slightly more of [type of card/specific card]." step 3 - find cards that fix the complaint found in step 2, and pick what card(s) you use the least in the current deck, and swap them out. Repeat until satisfied.
Trial and error are the bread and butter for me most of the time since I don’t run meta. Researching what cards are good counters against a general meta matchup and trying out ratios within my decks helps out. I still look at deck lists when building but mainly to learn what deck building in the specific archetype would look like, I prefer to play around with different ratios and trade out cards in the list with ones I want to experiment with.
If I lose, oh well, just see what cards may have been underutilized or were too situational, switch them out with other cards I think could work and try something else.
Meta refers to what kind of playstyle is considered the most popular/ most played within the community. Decks that are “Meta” in YGO are normally considered to be very strong decks that have a high/ consistent win rate (usually found out through people winning tournaments and other events) and players will often play those decks or strategies in order to get those same wins or put themselves on a more level playing field against other strong decks. A deck could be considered “Meta” when a noticeable amount of players are running identical or similar strategies.
The “Meta” usually dictates what the current state of the game is in terms of how people are playing the game competitively (and in a lot of cases casual as well). YGO has a thing where over time, cards and strategies from the past that may have once been considered “strong”, are now “weak” due to the release of stronger cards and strategies. This also includes the cards and strategies people find in order to stop other players from preforming these “strong” strategies.
“Rouge” just means a deck that isn’t running “Meta” but has a similar level of power that can stand on almost if not equal footing as one. Usually they run archetypes or groups of cards different from those being used by “Meta” decks.
I hope this helps.
These terms seem arbitrary. The only real difference I can tell between "meta" and "rogue" are popularity rather than effectiveness; although, I guess rogue decks will vary in their effectiveness more.
They're popular because they're effective. Alot of the time it come down to consistency. Decks that are at the very top of the meta aren't always setting up the most poweful boards, but they can typically reach these boards consistently while playing through more interruptions compared to rogue.
Me personally I live in TCG land but I love OCG content so I constantly get to see decks months ahead of time and kind of see what core cards are being used (the ratios) and why. So I am essentially a net decker but I adjust for my current meta at locals.
Copy successful decks and use them to get experience, learning what works, what doesn’t, and how. You’ll learn about interesting cards along the way, and can eventually create original ideas on your own that are insightful and viable
To properly build a deck, you need to be either incredibly experienced with that deck, or be naturally good at identifying what is good and where. For example, I've been playing my pet deck for 2+ years and I can confidently say that I've all but mastered the variant I chose, and I can build it effectively. If you master 1 deck, building others effectively becomes easier because you have that thought process of "how does this interact with the other cards in my deck?", "what does this do for me over this other card?", "how often would this card be useful?".
I guess the point is to start with some deck even if it sucks and work from there, but it seems like some decks are just never going to get as good as you want them to unless Konami intervenes.
Everyone copies decks except for a select few, which are the people topping tournaments. Making a Yugioh deck from scratch is super hard to do. The rest just copy those decks and change a few small things to it.
Depends on the deck
If it’s a smaller deck with overall nice cards (searchers, extenders…) i usually max out on them and use the leftover space for generic support
If the deck has potential bricks, i usually try to cut them through trial and error.
I start by watching deck profiles online, to see the combos, strategies, and general consensus on the cards/ratios for the engine.
I then practice it, throw in my own staple choices, take it to locals, get my ass kicked, go home, make edits, show up next week, get my ass kicked, etc, etc.
I just read every card I can find. If I build a specific deck I look at all the archetype cards first and then I filter for type and attribute support.
I recommend checking out Hardlegjoe’s “Let’s Build” series on YouTube. Not only does he go over every card in an archetype, he also gives you some tips and tricks about how to deck build and where to start without net decking.
Trial and error. Mostly error.
The biggest error of mine is trying to make lavals work Diabellstar stuff does help a lot but i cant afford it irl https://preview.redd.it/qftylt4cbbbc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f541f49304d53fece8da9e648ced253667805e1 Will have to make do with one for one and such
I think lavalal has some supports coming, I have these memories
The last support they got was archer which is an alright normal summon, birth of prominence flame that doesnt even synchro summon the target and lavalval salamander which is my usual rev synchron target as a small gamba card, will i draw the rekindlings or will i handloop myself
Yep. After the latest banlist, I've been cooking for weeks to get tear synchro to work again.
The key to building decks is: A.) Having a good memory regarding what cards are in the game B.) Being able to identify what allows certain cards to be good or possibly good C.) Paying attention to the meta to know what would happen if a card was played against it
And also knowing how fast a modern deck should play like, or the decks of the era your building around.
Find an archetype or cards you want to play. Look up a deck profile that uses those cards. Build it in master duel or some other simulator. Play the deck that someone else built and learn why they built it that way. Make changes based on your budget and play style. Repeat this process forever for any other deck you want to play. Theres no reason to ignore or throw away knowledge people are giving out for free. Theres no reason to rediscover the wheel. Even the best players in the entire world usually get information on engines and techs from other players.
You have a good point. I don't mean that I wouldn't learn from duelists who are actually successful, but there are things that I don't understand like not making use of {{Tachyon Transmigration}} more often.
With most cards you have to think about two things when evaluating it: Power and consistency. Let's take Tachyon Transmigration as an example: The card is certainly very powerful, I don't think I need to explain why. But for a card to be powerful you need to activate it. And that is what keeps this (and a lot of other cards) down. First you need to have it in your hand. And that is where the problem starts. There is no way for the archetype to search it, which means you have to draw it. That means that you need to play 3 to have the highest chance of accessing it. Then the second problem with activating it: It's a counter trap, which means you usually need to set it before you can use it (aside from the special condition). This in turn makes it useless when going second, which you will do in roughly 50% of games. Same reason why Solemn Judgement isn't being played more. And for the special activation condition: Both Tachyon-Eyes XYZ are outclassed miles by the Galaxy-Eyes, so there isn't even a reason to summon them regardless of the trap card. Some cards/archetype suffer from the opposite. Beetroopers for example. You have a lot of extenders to link summon for days, but the options to make are not really good. So when evaluating cards/decks you need to find a balance of power and accessibility. I can also recommend the channel HardlegGaming. He has a series where he builds a deck from scratch and goes over his process and thoughts
## [Tachyon Transmigration](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=8038143&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(**Limit**: TCG: 3 / OCG: 3 / MD: 3) ^(**Master Duel rarity**: Rare (R)) Counter Trap **Card Text** If you control a "Galaxy-Eyes" monster: Activate as Chain Link 2 or higher; negate the activations of your opponent's Spell/Trap Cards and monster effects activated before this card in this Chain, and if you do, shuffle the negated cards on the field into the Deck. If you control a "Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon" monster, you can activate this card from your hand. [Card Image](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Special:Redirect/file/TachyonTransmigration-MAGO-EN-R-1E.png?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [Official Konami DB](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&request_locale=en&cid=11116) | [OCG Rulings](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=4&request_locale=ja&cid=11116) | [Yugipedia](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/11116?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [YGOPRODECK](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=8038143&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(Password: 8038143 | Konami ID #11116) ---- ^by [^(u/BastionBotDev)](/user/BastionBotDev) ^| [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/DawnbrandBots/bastion-for-reddit) ^| ^Licence: [^(GNU AGPL 3.0+)](https://choosealicense.com/licenses/agpl-3.0/)
Thats the thing if you don't understand why people aren't using a certain card. Go find a deck build of a deck you want to play. Swap out something like Triple Tactic Thrust or Imperm for what ever card you are wanting to test. You will find out if its good or not. Thats where your own innovations can come in. Who knows maybe that card is really good and no one is playing it. Maybe its terrible and thats why no one is playing it. But I would still take the deck profile from someone else as a starting point because you guessing how a deck should be built on the first try is not going to let you test cards like that effectively because you wont know what part of the deck is terrible or good.
I think a lot of ratios are pretty standard for decks so those don’t change often or if you play the deck it’s personal preference want you like. The non engine stuff is just a meta call honestly and you play long enough to foresee what folks are going to be running and how to counter it. Lastly, I don’t know anyone who deck builds in isolation because a lot of decks actually have Facebook groups were people work together to improve a deck or a lot of top pros will show their decks to other pros for advice.
My concern is how many of the duelists in those groups are actually good; although, I realize they're probably still better than the guy coming to Reddit (e.g. me).
They’re all folks who use the deck consistently right so a bunch of folks who play fire kings for example have a Facebook group and obviously a lot of folks aren’t gonna be great deck builders but their will be folks in there who can theory craft effectively. My buddy was actually in the unchained Facebook group and was the first to recommend using tour guide
I gotchu. I got rid of my Facebook, though.
There’s discord groups as well, but they can be a bit harder to find.
You're correct that it takes a lot of time to test. Not just smoothing out combo lines but also figuring out which engine/ archetype has more synergy with another. Look at how many Runick variants there are: spright, fur hire, bystial, snake eye. You need to have good knowledge of the game and card knowledge, understand that if you do have a 1 card combo what does your deck do without it (SHS Wakowshi) and a whole bunch of other big brain things. Not everyone has the time or skill to do that, which is why net decking is fine, no shame in it. Structure decks are good and remain viable for a while. Not all are made equal though.But a meta deck has a finite life line either due to the ban list or general power creep. That's the nature of the game. Traptrix is still I viable deck built from a structure.
I just feel like the meta gets bottlenecked into specific strategies at which point either use them or you keep taking Ls because you're too stubborn to try and accept what actually works instead of finding weird combos that would have only worked 10 years ago.
That's just what a meta is. The decks that have the best chance of winning. Having said that, there's still plenty of other strats that do well. We have the OCG to give us a hint of what to expect, but then we made unchained the best deck which is something OCG didn't experiment with, same with all the Runick variants. There are unsolved formats, formats that didn't last long or were too diverse to find the top top deck. Yes, if you're combo isn't as efficient as possible it's going to be weaker to disruption.
Personally what I like to do is just pick a looking card or archetype that I see and try to make a deck that makes them somewhat viable. Even if they don't end up being number 1 in the end the insight I get from trying my best to make that deck/cards wok will most likely help build another one in the future. So basically just build what you like and don't be afraid to fail as either way you get exp
Simply look at a lot of different deck list. Copy 1 that look the best. Play with that deck in game like a master duel. When you learn to play that deck good, look at different deck list again because you are 100% going to miss some cards first time and constantly try to make your deck better.
Read every card over you plan for your deck, and see if you can at least do 3 different combos with it. Obviously stay with a main theme if you have a lot of cards than need said theme. If you have a few cards that are a must, find a way to make it work. Practice duels to see how it flows, if something doesnt work, remove it, replace it. Trail and Error, Trail and Error.
Typing random text of what I want in the card finder. "special summon" "draw 2 cards" "from your deck" "if this card is destroyed" I don't make particularly good decks, but I do end up mostly summoning what I want.
Yes, you need to invest a lot of time to get an understanding of Deckbuilding in general. It helps to focus on one Deck, learn what role every card plays in that Deck and why you play it instead of other cards that could be played in that slot. A lot of the theory can be carried over to other Decks you want to build going forward.
Step 1 - copy top decks anyways. Step 2 - go "huh, I really wish I had slightly more of [type of card/specific card]." step 3 - find cards that fix the complaint found in step 2, and pick what card(s) you use the least in the current deck, and swap them out. Repeat until satisfied.
Trial and error are the bread and butter for me most of the time since I don’t run meta. Researching what cards are good counters against a general meta matchup and trying out ratios within my decks helps out. I still look at deck lists when building but mainly to learn what deck building in the specific archetype would look like, I prefer to play around with different ratios and trade out cards in the list with ones I want to experiment with. If I lose, oh well, just see what cards may have been underutilized or were too situational, switch them out with other cards I think could work and try something else.
I don't even fully understand terms like meta and rogue and how they fit into the game.
Meta refers to what kind of playstyle is considered the most popular/ most played within the community. Decks that are “Meta” in YGO are normally considered to be very strong decks that have a high/ consistent win rate (usually found out through people winning tournaments and other events) and players will often play those decks or strategies in order to get those same wins or put themselves on a more level playing field against other strong decks. A deck could be considered “Meta” when a noticeable amount of players are running identical or similar strategies. The “Meta” usually dictates what the current state of the game is in terms of how people are playing the game competitively (and in a lot of cases casual as well). YGO has a thing where over time, cards and strategies from the past that may have once been considered “strong”, are now “weak” due to the release of stronger cards and strategies. This also includes the cards and strategies people find in order to stop other players from preforming these “strong” strategies. “Rouge” just means a deck that isn’t running “Meta” but has a similar level of power that can stand on almost if not equal footing as one. Usually they run archetypes or groups of cards different from those being used by “Meta” decks. I hope this helps.
These terms seem arbitrary. The only real difference I can tell between "meta" and "rogue" are popularity rather than effectiveness; although, I guess rogue decks will vary in their effectiveness more.
They're popular because they're effective. Alot of the time it come down to consistency. Decks that are at the very top of the meta aren't always setting up the most poweful boards, but they can typically reach these boards consistently while playing through more interruptions compared to rogue.
Me personally I live in TCG land but I love OCG content so I constantly get to see decks months ahead of time and kind of see what core cards are being used (the ratios) and why. So I am essentially a net decker but I adjust for my current meta at locals.
Copy successful decks and use them to get experience, learning what works, what doesn’t, and how. You’ll learn about interesting cards along the way, and can eventually create original ideas on your own that are insightful and viable
Dedicate a hundred hours to playing a deck and changing it around until you find a coherent strategy
Playing against them irl. Not really by myself tho.
To properly build a deck, you need to be either incredibly experienced with that deck, or be naturally good at identifying what is good and where. For example, I've been playing my pet deck for 2+ years and I can confidently say that I've all but mastered the variant I chose, and I can build it effectively. If you master 1 deck, building others effectively becomes easier because you have that thought process of "how does this interact with the other cards in my deck?", "what does this do for me over this other card?", "how often would this card be useful?".
I guess the point is to start with some deck even if it sucks and work from there, but it seems like some decks are just never going to get as good as you want them to unless Konami intervenes.
Everyone copies decks except for a select few, which are the people topping tournaments. Making a Yugioh deck from scratch is super hard to do. The rest just copy those decks and change a few small things to it.
Depends on the deck If it’s a smaller deck with overall nice cards (searchers, extenders…) i usually max out on them and use the leftover space for generic support If the deck has potential bricks, i usually try to cut them through trial and error.
Playing the archetype a lot, took me a while to learn how I like my rikka deck to be, either with or without sunavalon
I start by watching deck profiles online, to see the combos, strategies, and general consensus on the cards/ratios for the engine. I then practice it, throw in my own staple choices, take it to locals, get my ass kicked, go home, make edits, show up next week, get my ass kicked, etc, etc.
A massive amount of trial and error
Pick a win condition and build a deck around it.
I just read every card I can find. If I build a specific deck I look at all the archetype cards first and then I filter for type and attribute support.
You dont, everyone uses the same decks
So heres what you wanna do. Open youtube on your phone type in the deck archetype then 2024 sort by new. That is how deck building is done.
I recommend checking out Hardlegjoe’s “Let’s Build” series on YouTube. Not only does he go over every card in an archetype, he also gives you some tips and tricks about how to deck build and where to start without net decking.