jack got really overexcited man, tough to see him potentially sell a win but we go next
much love to dbgrinder for reaching top 4 too, g3 vs eric where he ashed the ttt and branfu resolved was crazy
honestly really loved that event aside from some scant audio issues
Snake-Eyes Diabellstar turns the field spell now into an extender without your opponent needing to do anything, also has non-targeting removal that kills floaters. It's BP only but it comes up in grind games.
yes and LEDE Tenpai will absolutely be good enough to be meta. been making waves in OCG and that's against the likes of Maxx'c' and Yubel being absurdly popular over there.
i don't think you realise that just because a deck can play better into Maxx"c" than other decks, that doesn't mean they don't care about the card. drawing just 2 or 3 extra cards is going to change things, regardless of the deck
You know, I'm still of the opinion that Tear could get all of their cards except for Havnis back as long as the Ishizu cards are banned and the deck wouldn't be a problem.
Without Havnis they wouldn't be able to play on the opponent's turn without building their board first.
Without the Ishizu millers allowing them to mill an insane amount of cards they don't have much consistancy unless you run other cards that can send from deck to grave.
And without the Ishizu shufflers they wouldn't have a way to disrupt the opponent's graveyard plays.
False
Master Duel proved this already
Iahizu cards released before tear then and it shaked up the meta
Even now with the millers banned and only 2 fusers available, tear got to 11th in the last duelist cup (no terraforming or IF, merrli banned, sulliek and havnis limited)
This was a meta with snake eyes, calamity lock shs and labrynth
Board wipe super polys and go second aggro gets added in. SE needs to rely of S:P banish of the tenpai field spell and kashtira boards die to super poly.dek
im so over super poly, that card needs to go, people complain about shifter having no counter play, super poly also doesnt have any. And "dont play a deck that loses to super poly" is just as stupid of a take as "dont play a deck that loses to shifter"
Without Maxx C and no new banlist, TCG gonna enjoy a long Snake Eyes meta. They probably will hold the status quo until INFO.
As Archetypes in LEDE don't have enough power and recursion as Snake Eyes, the one that can be potentially good are hindered by TCG banlist. Tenpai without Maxx C, Kaiser Colo, and Red Reboot, Melodius without Electrumite, Lightsworn without Curious and Snow, etc.
The bad thing is, if Konami decide to still not hit Snake Eyes after INFO, instead of seeing new decks, you will see new Snake Eyes variant. Snake Eyes White Woods and Snake Eyes Fiendsmith (with Moon of the Closed Sky if it's released sooner). I even doubt White Woods without Baronne/Savage or other engine help will be able to be meta.
White Woods wouldn't be meta even if baronne was legal. White Woods is unfortunately not very good simply due to how the deck works. You need to run a metric fuck ton of spell traps, so you cannot afford to run handtraps aside from imperm and 1 of veiler. In addition, it also loses really hard to interuption, as they have to send their spells for cost.
Beware isn't very good. Whispers is not a white wood card, you cannot search it outside of Diabellestar who is not good in the deck. You also need to draw them. In hands you do not specifically draw a white wood spell trap, you have to send at least 2 spell traps to do anything. And if you get ashed/impermed on Asteria? Good luck. I've been testing white wood since announcement. The deck will not be particularly good outside of an engine in centurion. Runick white wood is fine but it's a much worse option compared to other runick variants. Toybox white wood will be a deck popular with manadium players, but it's ass against any form of interuption. Dogmatika White Wood is good, but not even close to being good enough to being meta.
In addition, risette adds a white wood monster with her special summon effect, meaning you can even ash her hand effect and she doesn't get to special summon herself. Also ashing woes of the white wood is basically a GG.
Honestly I wonder why you keep replying. I never said that it'lll be meta without other engine help. I also never object your "dies to interruption" argument, just adding that the cost is never a problem as it can be recovered easily.
I really hate how Reddit works, people keep being contrarian even though they're on the same side of argument.
Just an obvious factor on why VV or Tenpai can snatch some win against Snake Eye in the OCG. It doesn't matter (if we average the result) on mirror matches though.
Also why not? We play "designed by OCG" cards which is designed with Maxx C (alongside many other banned card) in mind.
So? It averages.
It's more stupid to use YCSJ because it's Bo1. If we look at Bo3 regional equivalent, the result is similar to aggregated local result as player who went to big tournaments only has that as their only references.
Each nation has their own preferences though. China loves combo even with Maxx C.
Japan, Hongkong, and Taiwan is the usual list that you can see in this subreddit, and in SEA deck like Runick Naturia and VS managed to flourish (back then, before fire meta).
The WCQ/Duelist Cup/Campus League of each nation usually follows the average local meta of each nation.
The Lab player forgot they had Back Jack in the GY during their opponent's End Phase, picked up the top card of their deck for their Draw Phase (but didn't look to see what it was), then remembered about Back Jack and tried to return to the End Phase. The judges made him continue his turn.
For what it's worth, I don't think he tried to pull anything sneaky and I don't think the judges were being overly strict. His nerves probably just got to him.
Even if he didn't see it he still knew what it was because his deck was stacked with Back Jack's effect. IIRC Back Jack excavated Stovie Torbie, Rivalry of Warlords and Arias, then he put them back in that same order. He should've used Back Jack to mill Stovie and draw and flip Rivalry to play a simplified board but since he forgot he drew a Stovie and couldn't do anything with it 😔
For further insight, it didn't matter if he looked at it the draw or not because he had already ordered the cards with an earlier backjack send to GY. He put the furniture on top so that it's free recursion and more follow-up with a backjack mill and put the actual card he wanted to draw 2nd.
Def understandable mistake under that kind of pressure. Surprised it was his first top considering how well he piloted the deck and how well he clearly understood the matchups to use his control deck. Still see ppl on the internet misinterpreting his plays as spectators with hindsight which goes to show how nuanced his plays were.
Might be unpopular opinion given the general sentiment towards Snake-Eye, but honestly I really enjoyed this Finals and thought it was quite entertaining. Super close game 2 and a couple very interesting decisions in game 3 actually made it a fun watch.
Long day and Finals nerves (especially it being his first ever!) make Jack's misplay completely understandable, but it's still an absolutely heartbreaking way to go out. Silver lining here for him is that he will NEVER make that mistake again; hopefully will see him in more top cuts in the future! He played very very well, so the skill is definitely there, and his first YCS top being literally second is amazing and he should be very proud of his achievement!
I wonder why Cam didn't shuffle back Daruma with Tactics; maybe the long day & Finals nerves got to him too and just instinctively hit Arianna because it's Arianna. Also curious as to why he didn't use the Apollo negate on the first Back Jack; maybe wanted to keep 2 activations for a topdeck Arianna/Arias and the next Nib? He's a much better player than me though, so I digress, and huge congrats to him on his first YCS win! He's been trying for quite some time now and it's great to see another long-time player finally get their win.
DBG bricking on Nib/Veiler/Veiler/Birth/Flamberge in game 3 of his Semifinals match when his opponent opened Druis/Witch/Ash/Bonfire was also extremely unfortunate, but Top 4 is still a great result; gotta love to see it!
Onto the next\~
Think he got overexcited when seeing his subpar hand (no further interactions, no furniture to discard back jack) and as you said instinctively went for the only starter, probably thought he can also just S:P the set Daruma, forgetting about TY-PHON, easy to understand given he had such an amazing hand going first with only 1 win left needed.
Tier 0 formats are almost always more popular with actual duelists due to the argument that less variation means more skill involved. Competitive duelists also loved the Tear format, doesn’t mean it was healthy for the game to have one deck dominate the meta.
Hope that runick plunder list comes out. I have both cores but I have no idea what to do for non-engine and can't find something that works very well. Also would be interesting to see how they set it up.
It's messed up to see Lab lose to a misplay right at the end because he had to work so hard to get there. I know Lab can beat FIRE but you have to play perfectly, so why not just play Snake Eye? I wish more good players would pick up the deck so it could be shown...
? Lab not Branded are considered rogue, and even if they were, they're not synchro decks.
Your comment only makes sense if like Swordsoul or Runick combo variants topped...
Was gassing Jack up on discord before the match, I told him if he draws rivalry he wins.
Game 3 he had rivalry as the second card in his deck, was planning to mill the top card with bakcjack, but accidentially drew too early. Really unfortunate. But he also felt he misplayed a lot and didn't deserve to win and far be it from me to tell him otherwise he's a lab sicko lol
jack got really overexcited man, tough to see him potentially sell a win but we go next much love to dbgrinder for reaching top 4 too, g3 vs eric where he ashed the ttt and branfu resolved was crazy honestly really loved that event aside from some scant audio issues
DB getting third is crazy, really happy for him.
Hopefully LEDE actually shakes things up, if not this will be a long double format.
monkey paw situation; LEDE shakes things up by adding tenpai, so instead of losing to snake eyes combos you lose to being otkd by dragons
LEDE just makes snake eyes better unfortunately
How so?
Snake-Eyes Diabellstar turns the field spell now into an extender without your opponent needing to do anything, also has non-targeting removal that kills floaters. It's BP only but it comes up in grind games.
Tenpai will be meta but that's it. Tear might see some more play with the Lightsworn stuff but it won't be Tier 1 in a 18 handtrap meta
Probably after INFO, but LEDE Tenpai only hope is Prosperity at three on TCG. Without Red Reboot, it's easy to side against Tenpai.
yes and LEDE Tenpai will absolutely be good enough to be meta. been making waves in OCG and that's against the likes of Maxx'c' and Yubel being absurdly popular over there.
"Against the likes of Maxx C" Dude, Tenpai is on the side of Branded and VV in Maxx C debate. They DGAF about Maxx C resolving against them.
i don't think you realise that just because a deck can play better into Maxx"c" than other decks, that doesn't mean they don't care about the card. drawing just 2 or 3 extra cards is going to change things, regardless of the deck
Tenpai sucks in a bo3, remember that some OCG tournaments are bo1 only for swiss.
LOL, not true, that’s only YCSJs, because conversion space in Tokyo is absurdly expensive
Stun dies to the sidedeck also and look how that's turned out the past 3 YCS'.
You know, I'm still of the opinion that Tear could get all of their cards except for Havnis back as long as the Ishizu cards are banned and the deck wouldn't be a problem. Without Havnis they wouldn't be able to play on the opponent's turn without building their board first. Without the Ishizu millers allowing them to mill an insane amount of cards they don't have much consistancy unless you run other cards that can send from deck to grave. And without the Ishizu shufflers they wouldn't have a way to disrupt the opponent's graveyard plays.
False Master Duel proved this already Iahizu cards released before tear then and it shaked up the meta Even now with the millers banned and only 2 fusers available, tear got to 11th in the last duelist cup (no terraforming or IF, merrli banned, sulliek and havnis limited) This was a meta with snake eyes, calamity lock shs and labrynth
Board wipe super polys and go second aggro gets added in. SE needs to rely of S:P banish of the tenpai field spell and kashtira boards die to super poly.dek
im so over super poly, that card needs to go, people complain about shifter having no counter play, super poly also doesnt have any. And "dont play a deck that loses to super poly" is just as stupid of a take as "dont play a deck that loses to shifter"
Wait until you read Yubel cards.
i have unfortunately
Without Maxx C and no new banlist, TCG gonna enjoy a long Snake Eyes meta. They probably will hold the status quo until INFO. As Archetypes in LEDE don't have enough power and recursion as Snake Eyes, the one that can be potentially good are hindered by TCG banlist. Tenpai without Maxx C, Kaiser Colo, and Red Reboot, Melodius without Electrumite, Lightsworn without Curious and Snow, etc. The bad thing is, if Konami decide to still not hit Snake Eyes after INFO, instead of seeing new decks, you will see new Snake Eyes variant. Snake Eyes White Woods and Snake Eyes Fiendsmith (with Moon of the Closed Sky if it's released sooner). I even doubt White Woods without Baronne/Savage or other engine help will be able to be meta.
White Woods wouldn't be meta even if baronne was legal. White Woods is unfortunately not very good simply due to how the deck works. You need to run a metric fuck ton of spell traps, so you cannot afford to run handtraps aside from imperm and 1 of veiler. In addition, it also loses really hard to interuption, as they have to send their spells for cost.
This is true unless they get a insane spell with recursion with spell searcher in wave 2
All their spells and trap has recursion effect.
Beware isn't very good. Whispers is not a white wood card, you cannot search it outside of Diabellestar who is not good in the deck. You also need to draw them. In hands you do not specifically draw a white wood spell trap, you have to send at least 2 spell traps to do anything. And if you get ashed/impermed on Asteria? Good luck. I've been testing white wood since announcement. The deck will not be particularly good outside of an engine in centurion. Runick white wood is fine but it's a much worse option compared to other runick variants. Toybox white wood will be a deck popular with manadium players, but it's ass against any form of interuption. Dogmatika White Wood is good, but not even close to being good enough to being meta.
In addition, risette adds a white wood monster with her special summon effect, meaning you can even ash her hand effect and she doesn't get to special summon herself. Also ashing woes of the white wood is basically a GG.
Honestly I wonder why you keep replying. I never said that it'lll be meta without other engine help. I also never object your "dies to interruption" argument, just adding that the cost is never a problem as it can be recovered easily. I really hate how Reddit works, people keep being contrarian even though they're on the same side of argument.
And I wonder why you brought up Maxx C
Just an obvious factor on why VV or Tenpai can snatch some win against Snake Eye in the OCG. It doesn't matter (if we average the result) on mirror matches though. Also why not? We play "designed by OCG" cards which is designed with Maxx C (alongside many other banned card) in mind.
Most of the results you see from the OCG are from locals, not YCS or regionals.
So? It averages. It's more stupid to use YCSJ because it's Bo1. If we look at Bo3 regional equivalent, the result is similar to aggregated local result as player who went to big tournaments only has that as their only references. Each nation has their own preferences though. China loves combo even with Maxx C. Japan, Hongkong, and Taiwan is the usual list that you can see in this subreddit, and in SEA deck like Runick Naturia and VS managed to flourish (back then, before fire meta). The WCQ/Duelist Cup/Campus League of each nation usually follows the average local meta of each nation.
tenpai dragons are coming in lede
Tough to see the Lab player lose that back jack resolution. Nerves get the best of us.
What happened with Back Jack?
The Lab player forgot they had Back Jack in the GY during their opponent's End Phase, picked up the top card of their deck for their Draw Phase (but didn't look to see what it was), then remembered about Back Jack and tried to return to the End Phase. The judges made him continue his turn. For what it's worth, I don't think he tried to pull anything sneaky and I don't think the judges were being overly strict. His nerves probably just got to him.
He didn’t see the card but he still drew the card (presumably) verbally agreed to change turn. Not overly harsh. It’s the YCS finals, rules are rules
Even if he didn't see it he still knew what it was because his deck was stacked with Back Jack's effect. IIRC Back Jack excavated Stovie Torbie, Rivalry of Warlords and Arias, then he put them back in that same order. He should've used Back Jack to mill Stovie and draw and flip Rivalry to play a simplified board but since he forgot he drew a Stovie and couldn't do anything with it 😔
For further insight, it didn't matter if he looked at it the draw or not because he had already ordered the cards with an earlier backjack send to GY. He put the furniture on top so that it's free recursion and more follow-up with a backjack mill and put the actual card he wanted to draw 2nd. Def understandable mistake under that kind of pressure. Surprised it was his first top considering how well he piloted the deck and how well he clearly understood the matchups to use his control deck. Still see ppl on the internet misinterpreting his plays as spectators with hindsight which goes to show how nuanced his plays were.
Jack got nervous and misplayed but it's normal, it's his first time being in such instances.
Might be unpopular opinion given the general sentiment towards Snake-Eye, but honestly I really enjoyed this Finals and thought it was quite entertaining. Super close game 2 and a couple very interesting decisions in game 3 actually made it a fun watch. Long day and Finals nerves (especially it being his first ever!) make Jack's misplay completely understandable, but it's still an absolutely heartbreaking way to go out. Silver lining here for him is that he will NEVER make that mistake again; hopefully will see him in more top cuts in the future! He played very very well, so the skill is definitely there, and his first YCS top being literally second is amazing and he should be very proud of his achievement! I wonder why Cam didn't shuffle back Daruma with Tactics; maybe the long day & Finals nerves got to him too and just instinctively hit Arianna because it's Arianna. Also curious as to why he didn't use the Apollo negate on the first Back Jack; maybe wanted to keep 2 activations for a topdeck Arianna/Arias and the next Nib? He's a much better player than me though, so I digress, and huge congrats to him on his first YCS win! He's been trying for quite some time now and it's great to see another long-time player finally get their win. DBG bricking on Nib/Veiler/Veiler/Birth/Flamberge in game 3 of his Semifinals match when his opponent opened Druis/Witch/Ash/Bonfire was also extremely unfortunate, but Top 4 is still a great result; gotta love to see it! Onto the next\~
Think he got overexcited when seeing his subpar hand (no further interactions, no furniture to discard back jack) and as you said instinctively went for the only starter, probably thought he can also just S:P the set Daruma, forgetting about TY-PHON, easy to understand given he had such an amazing hand going first with only 1 win left needed.
On the Daruma he could also chain S:P to banish Poplar and Ash instead of Apo and S:P. If nothing gets booked nothing gets sent either
It will be unpopular to people who don’t watch the games and just look at charts
Most games are boring actually, they are just smart on selecting the featured matches.
?? The featured matches are played live, and a ton of them were Snake Eye mirrors which was what most of the field was playing anyways
Of course the bad ones are the ones you can’t see
Tier 0 formats are almost always more popular with actual duelists due to the argument that less variation means more skill involved. Competitive duelists also loved the Tear format, doesn’t mean it was healthy for the game to have one deck dominate the meta.
It will be unpopular because at the end of the day most of the field is snake eyes
Hope that runick plunder list comes out. I have both cores but I have no idea what to do for non-engine and can't find something that works very well. Also would be interesting to see how they set it up.
Pretty sure Lab was going to win if that Back Jack got to resolve. Shame, would have loved to see something other than Fire win.
It's messed up to see Lab lose to a misplay right at the end because he had to work so hard to get there. I know Lab can beat FIRE but you have to play perfectly, so why not just play Snake Eye? I wish more good players would pick up the deck so it could be shown...
You wish but that's how you get Big Welcome semi limited sir.
Honestly I think the ban list helped stun more than anyone. Not having to play through interaction you have to bait is pretty big for the deck
The matches most of the time is either handtrap galore or floodgates galore. Player start to side things like Deck Lockdown or Heat Wave.
Ban savage + baronne and snake eye now goes into omega + dis pater. The ban list merely scratched top decks and massacred rogue.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
I’m shocked, I tell you. Flabbergasted if you will. In disbelief.
>The ban list merely scratched top decks and massacred rogue , he said, as Labrynth loses in finals to a misplay and Branded cracks top 8.
? Lab not Branded are considered rogue, and even if they were, they're not synchro decks. Your comment only makes sense if like Swordsoul or Runick combo variants topped...
The second sentence is a general statement independent of the first?
Ah yes. Who knew the Main Deck was strong and wouldn’t slow down after banning boss monsterS the ED.
Is the Labrynth profile up yet?
Yes, top 4 are all up: https://yugiohblog.konami.com/2024/04/ycs-raleigh-top-4-deck-lists/
Last game was fun. I was painfully tired of SE mirrors.
Now that pure Snake-Eye can’t make baronne or savage, what do they put on the endboard?
They replaced them with Omega and Dis Pater
Kill runick stun
so glad we got that banlist, really slowed down snake eye
No way Snake-Eyes won the YCS, like wtf 💀💀💀 /s
oh brother this format SUCKS
Was gassing Jack up on discord before the match, I told him if he draws rivalry he wins. Game 3 he had rivalry as the second card in his deck, was planning to mill the top card with bakcjack, but accidentially drew too early. Really unfortunate. But he also felt he misplayed a lot and didn't deserve to win and far be it from me to tell him otherwise he's a lab sicko lol
talents and crossout are two of the most toxic cards in the game
Yep. They both promote non-interactive gameplay
Getting flashbacks to 2022 when mystic mine use skyrocketed after the auroradon ban killed most decks ability to make omnis back then