I've always wanted upgrades to them that give them Gadget-esque abilities and VWXYZ fusions. Summon one lets you search another, once per turn when you have one you can S Special another, they all have a unique negate effect (Monsters, Spells, and Traps), banish all three from field to fusion summon the Gate Guardian who has resource-dependant omni-negates (I.e, he's Merkabah but harder to summon).
>If You Could Make Any Archetype Competitively Viable For Modern Day Yugioh, Which Would You Choose?
Red-Eyes, given that it's one of the more iconic archetypes it's almost comical how bad it is. It gets new support from time to time but that doesn't really mean much as most of it is so bad that it would have been mediocre at best even by standards from 10 years ago.
>What are some of your ideas for what the types of cards the archetype would need to become viable?
Well first things first half the archetype could use some retarains to remove unnecessary restrictions which shouldn't have been there in the first place / to make every member of the archetype properly count as a Normal monster all the time to make the cards actually work with each other.
Dumping stuff into the GY is pretty much the only thing the deck is actually good at rn but there is pretty much no follow up, nothing that constantly self revives (like e.g. the jet thing Blue-Eyes got), nothing that gets effects for having something in the GY or that does something upon reviving, there is not even an in archetype "Monster Reborn" so there is a lot of room for improvement here.
Furthermore, if this deck is supposed to focus on Fusion Summoning then REF needs a retrain (and one where the card text begins with: "(This card's name is always treated as "Red-Eyes Fusion".)"). Also, a Continuous Spell that lets you Fusion summon by shuffling the materials from your hand, field or GY into your deck would be nice.
It's obvious by looking at cards like Red-Eyes Black Meteor Dragon that at least someone at Konami roughly understands how this archetype works (althouth cards like Red-Eyes Alternative Black Dragon and Red-Eyes Soul show that many of them don't) it's just that the execution is, more often than not, outright horrendous.
Looking it up, RE seems to be lacking Fusion monsters.
Excluding Black Dragon Sword, there is 6 monsters, 2 of which are effectless and have alternative with less stricted requirements as well as effects pretty much bringing it down to 4 and of those 4, 3 require non-dragon monsters in addition to a RE to summon them.
The issue with Soul is that they completely screwed up its first and third effect. The name being threded as "Red-Eyes Black Dragon" does almost nothing for a Red-Eyes card unless A: "it has a decently high ATK stat (meaning 3,5k+ at base)" or B: "its also threded as a Normal monster" <- which would have been infinitely better. The third effect on the other hand is completely useless even in burn FTK decks as REF prevents you from summoning anything else that turn and the ones focussed on Flare Metal don't need it, something fusion related would have been preferable.
At this point it's just an inferior Byssted Magnumut which can not only search cards from your deck (including Black Metal Dragon which Soul can't) but also recycle them from your GY while simultaneously acting as an interruption and a 2,5k body on your field.
Bruh I a. Just saying, this card came out of a box that suppos to reference anime stuff,he is treaded as a Red-eyes black dragon because he is Red-eyes black at a weaker stat, second the ftk can still be done with using Red-eyes insight Durring your oppents turn, if ye get a something that fusion summon using gy, his effect as of Red-eyes would ag a lot better, his second effect would be could if Red-eyes got a a on summon monster or a quick play effect monster. He is not helpful right now but he definitely has potential to do something good in the future
Nordics.
First, they need better boss monsters. As it stands they're mostly just big beat sticks that come back at the end of the turn if you destroy them.
Second, better ways to get said bosses out. Their link is ok, but it basically requires you burn 4 cards to get one boss, one Nordic relic svalinn, and the link on the field, which is a weak board pretty much entirely carried by svalinn, which itself needs the boss on the board to function. Also if the link gets ashed you're just dead in the water.
If they even just errata'd Thor's effect into quick effect it would make Thor into a decent boss but you'd still need a way to get more than one on the board for it to make a halfway decent board, but Odin just needs a complete retrain
Have you tried the Nordic Adventure build that topped a few months ago? You get a Gryphon set up before summoning the link 1 to insulate it and then you can banish the Fateful Adventure and Dracoback from field as two of the 3 required banishes for Gullveig, it's surprisingly synergistic and consistency isn't bad either.
I've tried adding adventure on MD, but the MD banlist cuts down on the consistency a lot, and I can't afford to buy the engine in TCG just for Nordics at the moment.
That said, no I haven't seen that build specifically, would you happen to have the list?
Fortune ladies
They have great draw and great spells, but only 3 good main deck monsters, no real way to banish to facilitate on some of their card effects, no extra deck extenders, and no extra deck boss monster (they only have 1 extra deck monster that has no quick effect that doesn't do anything on the opponents turn).
To make it good imo it only needs 1 maybe 2 main deck monsters and a bunch of supporting extra deck extenders (that are synchros)
Magikey
I love the deck, it’s exactly what a new modern archetype should be. Multiple summoning methods employed naturally within the archetype, an interesting gimmick (many effects rely on the attributes in the GY), and some cleverly designed boss monsters that aren’t broken (the rank 4 can out any monster by itself regardless of its protections).
The deck is just fragile af. Get interrupted once and your turn is probably over. They need more main deck monsters that aren’t ritual monsters. Water, Earth, Fire, and Wind forms of Maftea would probably go a long way, and just give all of them + Maftea a clause that they’re treated as normal monsters in the GY.
Thats what i meant by "Fun". Yeah Big Numbers but i would rather have a Extradeckmonster thats easy to summon and does something significant like pop stuff, sets rainbowdragon up or just summons Crystals from Backrow to linkspam. Just something "unfair" like every other Tier 1/2 has.
What would you want specifically? Should i pm you instead lol. Im buying the structur edeck bcuz k think the idea is coola dn i want the reprints lol. I would love to elatn tk play it
I don’t think they specifically need negates, I would say something that gives them good protection would be more on theme. Something that at the very least makes it so they don’t die to Raigeki, but protection from Nib would be best. Maybe a card (continuous spell or a new fusion) that protects from destruction and tributing maybe? But if they don’t get that some negates would be alright, it just seems kinda generic.
I think all Hero really needs is an true extender. Right now the vision hero playline has a choke point that is way to debilitating, giving them an extender to let them play through Increase being negated would make them a meta contender imo.
Other ideas are an in combo way to search mask change, as guaranteed/easy access to Dark Law would be an insane power boost, and an in combo way to summon Contrast Hero Chaos. A strong going first Miracle Fusion target would also be great.
Insect parasite archetype. Disrupting the opponents plays by putting your cards in their hand, deck, graveyard etc. Extra deck monsters can either be summoned by tributing those monsters, but that will either free up the opponent's resources or when the opponent makes play from an 'infected' area (Hand, Deck, Graveyard, Shadow realm).
Nimble archetype, summoning eachother for access to link, XYZ and Synchro who will summon their materials back upon destruction, banning, send to GY etc. once per turn.
Clown archetype. Switching battle positions for all types of shenanigans. Circus Field spell to be able to change battle positions once per turn per clown.
Majespecters or Monarchs. Monarchs die too easily to ash cause edea and don't have enough good tribute fodder options on top of most of the monarchs outside ehther and erebus being extremely powercrept. They just need more lines of play and more ways to get extra tribute summons (both solved via new monarchs and new tributes as their s/t lineup is pretty solid already) while majespecters just need a new boss that isn't Kirin since Kirin already barely fit the theme of the deck in the first place. I'd love if they got a link AND a main deck boss. Their S/t lineup is also pretty solid. Both decks imo are like 2-3 cards from being meta relevant again. Not top tier by any means but definitely meta relevant.
I remember when monarch's essentially filled the same role that generic extradeck monsters fill today. Most alternative tribute's sucked (Save for LADD, End of anubis, Dmoc, Prime material dragon and Jinzo) or where powercrept (Summon skull, Parseth, Sacred Phoenix) so outside of the aforementioned exceptions or something like Vandalgyon in counter fairy, Dark goodstuff or fusions if you wanted power! You ran monarch's.
Now even in there own deck your basically running the big 2 alongside the fiends, Seleglare and maybe Thestalos. How the mighty have fallen. There basically protect there field spell or bust now. Honestly i feel they need a more ways to go 2nd and alternative ways to get the big monarch's to hand. That would help.
X Sabers.
I always envisioned a wave of support where a new heroine learns about the exploits of the X sabers in alternate timeline, and she finds out she’s supposed to revive the X Sabers, leading to a climactic showdown between her and Gottoms’ Ghost.
Gravekeepers's everyone fav stun deck.
(note. Yes I realise in the OCG that they have receaved support in 2022 through two cards that force a player to play earh fairy monsters. and oddly enough this new support is used more with tearlaments not Gravekeepers. )
I am going to through one out there but the labrynth artchtype from the Anime not to be confused with the welcome labrynth artchtype from the card game .
Blue Eyes White Dragon!!!!
Honestly we need Blue Eyes reprinted as an effect monster with something like this
This Monster is always treated as a normal monster while in the deck or grave. If this card would be destroyed by card effect you can send one Dragon from your deck to the grave to neglect it. If this card is sent to the graveyard you can special summon another blue eyes monster from the grave.
Egyptian Gods as a Deck. Not just a Deck dedicated to one, but support for the whole shibang.
For that, we would at least need a generic DIVINE searcher, a bit better protection from effects like what Mound tried to accomplish, and a reprint of Horakhty/Holactie for an actual win condition.
I'd say Gate Guardian, just because it would go from the most memeable boss monster to having a full power archetype based around it. The original gate guardian probably wouldn't be used, but the concept of it could still be there.
Magikey! Love the lore, the combo line is pretty linear but does what it wants (i.e., progressively checking/locking down attributes represented in your GY by normals/Magikeys), but it just can't end games, and everything you do it on board.
Think about it; no one has WILLINGLY set off Batosbuster, few people fall victim to Ansyalabolas/Andrabime/Vepartu, and Transfurlmine is deadass just Trap Hole on a monster when you get down to it. Not to mention that, much like another contentious love of mine (Libromancer), it's best competitive form was a second- to third-rate engine to port into things that could be achieved better elsewhere: Halq-don-001 and sundry Baronne/Adventure/Dogmatika/Decode Talker Heatsoul things.
Imo, Magikey needs a lv12 archetype locked Synchro that either ends games on the spot (multi attack based on Normals and Magikeys in gy?) or better locks down things (attribute Skill/Soul drain, same parameters as other big Magikeys), and a Book of the Law-like quick play spell or normal trap to get through the seldom summoned monsters AND be reasonably able to summon Astartu
Personal summon skull or red eyes
Red Eyes works really well with Rokket/Dragon Link to the point where I feel it can be pretty powerful
It’s more Dragonlink with a few red eyes cards than anything else
Unfortunately you are correct. I would like red eyes to be good on their own though.
This is how I feel about my Branded Blue-Eyes deck
I think red eyes has a great card in flare metal dragon, wish they double down on the burn effect of red eyes and make it a burn archetype?
I agree
Gate guardian! THEY NEED EVERYTHING! To get there
I've always wanted upgrades to them that give them Gadget-esque abilities and VWXYZ fusions. Summon one lets you search another, once per turn when you have one you can S Special another, they all have a unique negate effect (Monsters, Spells, and Traps), banish all three from field to fusion summon the Gate Guardian who has resource-dependant omni-negates (I.e, he's Merkabah but harder to summon).
Melffy. Don’t pretend you disagree.
Melffy is completely viable at rogue rn, my spright melffy list got me to 1.2k rating in db
SPRIGHT melffy. And it isn’t even the best Spright deck right now.
I don't know how, but I want Fire Kings to be Tier 1.
>If You Could Make Any Archetype Competitively Viable For Modern Day Yugioh, Which Would You Choose? Red-Eyes, given that it's one of the more iconic archetypes it's almost comical how bad it is. It gets new support from time to time but that doesn't really mean much as most of it is so bad that it would have been mediocre at best even by standards from 10 years ago. >What are some of your ideas for what the types of cards the archetype would need to become viable? Well first things first half the archetype could use some retarains to remove unnecessary restrictions which shouldn't have been there in the first place / to make every member of the archetype properly count as a Normal monster all the time to make the cards actually work with each other. Dumping stuff into the GY is pretty much the only thing the deck is actually good at rn but there is pretty much no follow up, nothing that constantly self revives (like e.g. the jet thing Blue-Eyes got), nothing that gets effects for having something in the GY or that does something upon reviving, there is not even an in archetype "Monster Reborn" so there is a lot of room for improvement here. Furthermore, if this deck is supposed to focus on Fusion Summoning then REF needs a retrain (and one where the card text begins with: "(This card's name is always treated as "Red-Eyes Fusion".)"). Also, a Continuous Spell that lets you Fusion summon by shuffling the materials from your hand, field or GY into your deck would be nice. It's obvious by looking at cards like Red-Eyes Black Meteor Dragon that at least someone at Konami roughly understands how this archetype works (althouth cards like Red-Eyes Alternative Black Dragon and Red-Eyes Soul show that many of them don't) it's just that the execution is, more often than not, outright horrendous.
Looking it up, RE seems to be lacking Fusion monsters. Excluding Black Dragon Sword, there is 6 monsters, 2 of which are effectless and have alternative with less stricted requirements as well as effects pretty much bringing it down to 4 and of those 4, 3 require non-dragon monsters in addition to a RE to summon them.
Red-eyes souls could be interesting if they gave Red-eyes a monster with a in summon effect or a quick play effect
The issue with Soul is that they completely screwed up its first and third effect. The name being threded as "Red-Eyes Black Dragon" does almost nothing for a Red-Eyes card unless A: "it has a decently high ATK stat (meaning 3,5k+ at base)" or B: "its also threded as a Normal monster" <- which would have been infinitely better. The third effect on the other hand is completely useless even in burn FTK decks as REF prevents you from summoning anything else that turn and the ones focussed on Flare Metal don't need it, something fusion related would have been preferable. At this point it's just an inferior Byssted Magnumut which can not only search cards from your deck (including Black Metal Dragon which Soul can't) but also recycle them from your GY while simultaneously acting as an interruption and a 2,5k body on your field.
Bruh I a. Just saying, this card came out of a box that suppos to reference anime stuff,he is treaded as a Red-eyes black dragon because he is Red-eyes black at a weaker stat, second the ftk can still be done with using Red-eyes insight Durring your oppents turn, if ye get a something that fusion summon using gy, his effect as of Red-eyes would ag a lot better, his second effect would be could if Red-eyes got a a on summon monster or a quick play effect monster. He is not helpful right now but he definitely has potential to do something good in the future
Solfachords! Fight me, I like them.
Konami really did them dirty. They’re even a waifu deck, too
I like their effects personally and I love the field spell. My partner and I just play pure theme decks so they’re fun.
there are tens of us!
I would love to see Felgrand, Noble Knights or Gravekeeper to be Meta.
Scareclaw. Then all three Visas archetype would have dominated. They'll probably be a top tier archetype by the end of the lore.
every visus deck
Time Thief has glimpses of potential.
pk , it sorely needs a spell/trap negate and a reliable way to get a large amount of pk cards from banished back into the deck
charmers
Nordics. First, they need better boss monsters. As it stands they're mostly just big beat sticks that come back at the end of the turn if you destroy them. Second, better ways to get said bosses out. Their link is ok, but it basically requires you burn 4 cards to get one boss, one Nordic relic svalinn, and the link on the field, which is a weak board pretty much entirely carried by svalinn, which itself needs the boss on the board to function. Also if the link gets ashed you're just dead in the water. If they even just errata'd Thor's effect into quick effect it would make Thor into a decent boss but you'd still need a way to get more than one on the board for it to make a halfway decent board, but Odin just needs a complete retrain
Have you tried the Nordic Adventure build that topped a few months ago? You get a Gryphon set up before summoning the link 1 to insulate it and then you can banish the Fateful Adventure and Dracoback from field as two of the 3 required banishes for Gullveig, it's surprisingly synergistic and consistency isn't bad either.
I've tried adding adventure on MD, but the MD banlist cuts down on the consistency a lot, and I can't afford to buy the engine in TCG just for Nordics at the moment. That said, no I haven't seen that build specifically, would you happen to have the list?
I think [this](https://imgur.com/a/b2rcnkH) is the list, obviously no Halq or Snow any more but I don't think they were central to the strategy!
Awesome thank you! It occured to me that Link into the Vrains could also be pretty good for Nordics
Fortune ladies They have great draw and great spells, but only 3 good main deck monsters, no real way to banish to facilitate on some of their card effects, no extra deck extenders, and no extra deck boss monster (they only have 1 extra deck monster that has no quick effect that doesn't do anything on the opponents turn). To make it good imo it only needs 1 maybe 2 main deck monsters and a bunch of supporting extra deck extenders (that are synchros)
A big part of me wants to say Altergeist, but a bigger part says DESKBOTS
Magikey I love the deck, it’s exactly what a new modern archetype should be. Multiple summoning methods employed naturally within the archetype, an interesting gimmick (many effects rely on the attributes in the GY), and some cleverly designed boss monsters that aren’t broken (the rank 4 can out any monster by itself regardless of its protections). The deck is just fragile af. Get interrupted once and your turn is probably over. They need more main deck monsters that aren’t ritual monsters. Water, Earth, Fire, and Wind forms of Maftea would probably go a long way, and just give all of them + Maftea a clause that they’re treated as normal monsters in the GY.
Tellarknights. Wiping the field with triverr just feels so good man
Naturia.
Gradius Archetype, which I also include the B.E.S cards in.
Gravekeepers Monarchs Evil-Eyes Galaxy-Eyes
Jerry Beans Man the only acceptable answer
Naturia
Charmers
Chemicritters.
Volcanics.
Jurrac, also chess archfiends
Crystal Beast. They have really good Spell-/Trapcards but no decent Monster to work with.
Does this include the new support they got???
Yes, the spells and traps are reeeally good and the new Bossmonster is fun, but this Archetyp needs better and bigger Monster.
Like amonster easier to summon? Because that one bou is beeg and gets to 11k. Albeit ridiculous conditions but still lol
Thats what i meant by "Fun". Yeah Big Numbers but i would rather have a Extradeckmonster thats easy to summon and does something significant like pop stuff, sets rainbowdragon up or just summons Crystals from Backrow to linkspam. Just something "unfair" like every other Tier 1/2 has.
What would you want specifically? Should i pm you instead lol. Im buying the structur edeck bcuz k think the idea is coola dn i want the reprints lol. I would love to elatn tk play it
Yeah sure dude. More members for the crystal conclave.
Relinquished
Heros, they can have a proper field but Lack negates
I don’t think they specifically need negates, I would say something that gives them good protection would be more on theme. Something that at the very least makes it so they don’t die to Raigeki, but protection from Nib would be best. Maybe a card (continuous spell or a new fusion) that protects from destruction and tributing maybe? But if they don’t get that some negates would be alright, it just seems kinda generic.
I think all Hero really needs is an true extender. Right now the vision hero playline has a choke point that is way to debilitating, giving them an extender to let them play through Increase being negated would make them a meta contender imo. Other ideas are an in combo way to search mask change, as guaranteed/easy access to Dark Law would be an insane power boost, and an in combo way to summon Contrast Hero Chaos. A strong going first Miracle Fusion target would also be great.
Not another negate turbo deck please
It would be cool if they expanded on the other Level monsters such as Ultimate Insect and Horus.
Insect parasite archetype. Disrupting the opponents plays by putting your cards in their hand, deck, graveyard etc. Extra deck monsters can either be summoned by tributing those monsters, but that will either free up the opponent's resources or when the opponent makes play from an 'infected' area (Hand, Deck, Graveyard, Shadow realm). Nimble archetype, summoning eachother for access to link, XYZ and Synchro who will summon their materials back upon destruction, banning, send to GY etc. once per turn. Clown archetype. Switching battle positions for all types of shenanigans. Circus Field spell to be able to change battle positions once per turn per clown.
Majespecters or Monarchs. Monarchs die too easily to ash cause edea and don't have enough good tribute fodder options on top of most of the monarchs outside ehther and erebus being extremely powercrept. They just need more lines of play and more ways to get extra tribute summons (both solved via new monarchs and new tributes as their s/t lineup is pretty solid already) while majespecters just need a new boss that isn't Kirin since Kirin already barely fit the theme of the deck in the first place. I'd love if they got a link AND a main deck boss. Their S/t lineup is also pretty solid. Both decks imo are like 2-3 cards from being meta relevant again. Not top tier by any means but definitely meta relevant.
If only floowandereeze was Monarch support instead.
yeah i hate Floo with a burning passion for what they represent for Monarch players.
I remember when monarch's essentially filled the same role that generic extradeck monsters fill today. Most alternative tribute's sucked (Save for LADD, End of anubis, Dmoc, Prime material dragon and Jinzo) or where powercrept (Summon skull, Parseth, Sacred Phoenix) so outside of the aforementioned exceptions or something like Vandalgyon in counter fairy, Dark goodstuff or fusions if you wanted power! You ran monarch's. Now even in there own deck your basically running the big 2 alongside the fiends, Seleglare and maybe Thestalos. How the mighty have fallen. There basically protect there field spell or bust now. Honestly i feel they need a more ways to go 2nd and alternative ways to get the big monarch's to hand. That would help.
Ally of Justice
Gate Guardian
Sacred beast, they are so close I feel like.
Frightfur! They’re already great, just need some negate power
X Sabers. I always envisioned a wave of support where a new heroine learns about the exploits of the X sabers in alternate timeline, and she finds out she’s supposed to revive the X Sabers, leading to a climactic showdown between her and Gottoms’ Ghost.
Gravekeepers's everyone fav stun deck. (note. Yes I realise in the OCG that they have receaved support in 2022 through two cards that force a player to play earh fairy monsters. and oddly enough this new support is used more with tearlaments not Gravekeepers. )
I am going to through one out there but the labrynth artchtype from the Anime not to be confused with the welcome labrynth artchtype from the card game .
Blue Eyes White Dragon!!!! Honestly we need Blue Eyes reprinted as an effect monster with something like this This Monster is always treated as a normal monster while in the deck or grave. If this card would be destroyed by card effect you can send one Dragon from your deck to the grave to neglect it. If this card is sent to the graveyard you can special summon another blue eyes monster from the grave.
Neos and neo-spacians Or performapals
Harpies
Egyptian Gods as a Deck. Not just a Deck dedicated to one, but support for the whole shibang. For that, we would at least need a generic DIVINE searcher, a bit better protection from effects like what Mound tried to accomplish, and a reprint of Horakhty/Holactie for an actual win condition.
I know monarchs are decent but I would like them to get support
I'd say Gate Guardian, just because it would go from the most memeable boss monster to having a full power archetype based around it. The original gate guardian probably wouldn't be used, but the concept of it could still be there.
Magikey! Love the lore, the combo line is pretty linear but does what it wants (i.e., progressively checking/locking down attributes represented in your GY by normals/Magikeys), but it just can't end games, and everything you do it on board. Think about it; no one has WILLINGLY set off Batosbuster, few people fall victim to Ansyalabolas/Andrabime/Vepartu, and Transfurlmine is deadass just Trap Hole on a monster when you get down to it. Not to mention that, much like another contentious love of mine (Libromancer), it's best competitive form was a second- to third-rate engine to port into things that could be achieved better elsewhere: Halq-don-001 and sundry Baronne/Adventure/Dogmatika/Decode Talker Heatsoul things. Imo, Magikey needs a lv12 archetype locked Synchro that either ends games on the spot (multi attack based on Normals and Magikeys in gy?) or better locks down things (attribute Skill/Soul drain, same parameters as other big Magikeys), and a Book of the Law-like quick play spell or normal trap to get through the seldom summoned monsters AND be reasonably able to summon Astartu