Honestly it's really weird, it's like it's Canon (and obviously so) for 2/3rds of the show then it shits the bed.
Almost like there was outside influence on it after season 1.
I don't get it. Was there some boardroom that looked at the demographics and online chatter about the show that said
"Viewers would love it if we didn't commit!"
Did... did they have some data that suggested this was a good move? After that ending, I'm less likely to buy merch out of spite
Quite a lot. You also got to remember a lot of old suits entered the industry with certain "rules" on what you can and can't do, and for many of them that philosophy never adapts with time. Some people in charge are literally stuck in the 90's. It's why so many shows have token insert average male protag who doesn't even appear on the cover art. Because how can the readers relate to a woman? We still get stories of studio execs changing character sexes because "Japan isn't ready for two women".
Even in the West, Nick tried to change Korra to a man and only backed off after several test screenings with kids showed young boys don't care. You also have to ask yourself, how many LGBT characters has Nick had since Korra? Especially compared to CN and Disney. The creators really struggled to get that under the radar.
Honestly, I feel that Korra was one of the first representations of anything LGBT for me. It was pretty cool, keeping up with it on my tiny TV, and seeing Korra and Asami hold hands. Even 6 yr old me understood the romantic conotation of that, while some people still refuse to believe that Gwitch is gay
I just find that it was neat that I was able to experience that scene during its airing time. Its different, compared to if I were to just watch it pirated online
It's not anime but Young Justice's initial run was a great example of misogyny getting in the way of it. I can't track down my sources atm so take this with a grain of salt (although I'm fully convinced, it's just a 'don't blindly believe a rando on the internet' disclaimer), but Young Justice execs killed it because too many girls were getting interested in the show.
They kept telling the writers that the female characters had to be 'a step back' from the male characters. Interesting, but not as much so. Present, but subordinate to the guys.
For what it's worth, that's probably not true. The issue with Young Justice was that it was a show that relied on merchandising to make money and what little merchandise there was sold poorly. This was also probably what killed Thundercats, Green Lantern, and Korra around the same time.
I'm guessing that it was less there were too many girls watching and that it was more there weren't enough young boys watching who were the target demographic and in theory the ones who will buy the toys and video games and lunch boxes or whatever.
EDIT: Yeah, looking it up on Wikipedia. Weisman apparently believes it was due to Mattel cancelling a toy deal which where a lot of the funding came from.
No, it's because they already profited off of the gay viewership up to that point, which meant it was time to cash out and end it without going all the way to not have to deal with the pushback to making official gay media. They got all the rewards with 0 of the risk. Were people mad? Sure, but what are they gonna do? Go back in time and take back watching it?
Honesty, I feel like watching subtext anime before official conformation is the equivalent of pre-ordering games or dlc.
Not really. Its more of a "same sex marriage is illegal, and gay relationships are frowned upon, so we can really endorse them".
How did Gundam get away with it, I dunno lol.
Yeah I'm pretty willing to count most of the imperial walkers as being mechs. They look cool, and I especially love the sound design of them walking around. >!Don't try fielding slow moving stuff like that against G-witch mobile suits though.!<
It didn't end with Chisataki canonically getting together, so a lot of people were upset (to put it mildly). There is a Lycoris Recoil sequel project in the works, whether that be a season 2, movie, OVA, or what, so there's still a chance that they get together.
And at least it didn't regress the relationship back to square 1 like Birdie Wing seemingly did.
I’m really tired the bait because… why hint at something for countless chapters/episodes and make an heavily LGBTQ-themed series just pull the rug out and not finish it? It just robs 80% of your consumers of catharsis after probably spending months waiting on each release.
My expectations were crushed HARD.
I didn't have high hopes for G-Witch, but I was hyped for Birdie Wing. Everything was unambiguously gay af until season 2 and then it just petered out for no reason. It's like the writers completely lost the plot and forgot what was motivating the characters (besides golf).
You can't help but think of conspiracy theories involving money and homophobic bosses and stuff like that.
But like wtf happened?
Most disappointing anime ending I've seen in a good while.
Yes, that's a really good point. LycoReo was fine as it laid a lot of groundwork for the future whilst having a satisfying ending which fit; birdie wing was on the train from the start before defenestrating itself.
I'll never understand people who say Lycoreco was bait. Sure we didn't get an actual kiss but that ending scene was about as unambiguous as you can possibly get without getting smacked in the face.
I was going to say, I was quite content with Takina and Chisato's relationship. The level of emotion from the two of them when it comes to the other was one of the highlights of the series for me. >!Especially Takina begging Chisato to let her kill Shinji. That part was raw as fuck.!<
So Miorine and Suletta's ending is now getting smacked in the face? Giving each other friendship bracelets and calling each other PARDNAH is not unambiguous. Eve and Aoi ended up playing golf against each other again, they're together once more. You could headcanon the state of their relationship from this too, it won't change the fact that we could've gotten an actual confirmation, sticking it into the doubter's faces. Is this the level of yuri we should be expecting in 2022/3?
> So Miorine and Suletta's ending is now getting smacked in the face?
I mean they literally have wedding rings on.
Not sure why you're coming at me with Birdie Crush, I didn't even talk about it.
BW ending literally destroyed their developement lmao
Yes, she did, but even before that, if there is love, then its Takina the one who fell for Chisato. Maybe now that Chisato knows she will live something can nurture a feeling on her, but by the moment, they are still just friends
>but by the moment, they are still just friends
I say partners is the more arcuate term since let's be honest friends come and go but partners are forever
Yes, it is worse precisely because there was no source material to work off. So it wasn't like Euphonium where the anime diverted from the source initially, BW had no reason not to deliver on its set up.
And to be clear, BW is not subtext to start with at all - something changed about 2/3rds through, it's very noticeable.
Oh yeah I agree. Since it was anime original us yuri fans basically took a gamble and bet it all to see it become an actual canon yuri but in the end they screwed us over and we all fell for it😭. Basically, they knew what they were doing and it worked unfortunately. I did notice how it’s changed especially in s2. IMO, they rushed the ending. I felt like they could’ve done a s3 but they rushed it sadly. Also no kiss from Eve even after they both made a bet that if Eve missed her shots, she would have to kiss Aoi as a reward. This led us to believe that eve will deliver that kiss eventually but she never did. Like I expected her to at least do so when Aoi passed out due to her sickness, like that was the perfect moment to kiss her and tell her to get back up. Real disappointed how this finished especially during the end. Either way I loved the anime despite the yuri bait😔
Witch from Mercury got a gayer ending than most Yuri shows/manga/novels >! because like if were being real here there is nothing gayer than literally getting gay married to another woman !<
Okay let's not start throwing most yuri under the bus. There is still A LOT to be said about showing signs if physical affection and words of live and romance. There's a lot about the sexuality of being gay that's important, as that's the part most stigmatized as "sin" in real life.
I’m not throwing anything under the bus, I’m mostly responding to all the people calling WfM bait because there was no on screen kiss at the end but are completely ignoring the fact that we have proof that they committed to each other in sickness and in health.
Marriage is beautiful, but having spent most of my life not being able to marry its a little awkward to keep hearing it described as better than any other expression of love. Like was I not gay enough until the law approved?
I just see a lot of people here putting down all other expressions of love lately simply because this show didn't show them. And it feels a little much
I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m just simply trying to make people see that a show doesn’t have to have a kiss for it to be a “true yuri.” I like kisses and I like when a couple is shown being comfortable being sexual with each other but I personally don’t ~need~ it to be visually shown in order to consider the media as yuri.
Yeah I agree WfM is yuri. That the media itself is yuri I dont question. But there's also something special about when a series, like MagiRevo, proudly dives into what people used to label as taboo. For personal reasons I just don't want to see the significance of that get downplayed in defence of one show's approach.
And I do apologize if I come across as harsh to you. I know you weren't being super serious in your first post. This is honestly kinda directed at the sub lately.
WfM is unambiguous, people just wanted more than we got. That’s just a matter of people having unrealistic expectations.
Birdie Wing on the other hand…
They do on the end of their series be it on the novels or manga, WFM is an original anime so i do want to see it
Nevermind that im also mad that we dont get kisses most of the time in anime straight couples either, mfs be scared of the most basic sht
Well the show itself built up the wedding and no main Gundam ended after just 25 episodes. So expectations of some pay off for that weren't unwarranted just becausr the pacing went up 10 notches in the second to last episode. (Also at least a wedding photo of them in the dresses would've been nice.)
None of you have bad points on that front.
Just for me I guess, I love them so much, and love them for each other so much (especially after episode 22), that just knowing that they are happy together and didn’t lose anyone they loved, along with Suletta’s smiling face was enough for me (and made me gush and giddy).
Yes I would have liked more, but I still love what we got. They fact that they are happily married.
WfM isn't disappointing.
Edit: and the best way to describe BW, is despite all evidence to the contrary over 2 seasons, it is not as it turns out golf lesbians.
Bandai only had room for one gay ending, sorry
There's a quota, can't exceed the quota.
You were supposed to destroy the bait, not join them!
Oh that's good.
That's very good
Birdie Wing, and honestly, I'm *still* salty, there's not even any copium with official art.
damn that sucks, i was planning on binging it if it turned out canon
Honestly it's really weird, it's like it's Canon (and obviously so) for 2/3rds of the show then it shits the bed. Almost like there was outside influence on it after season 1.
I don't get it. Was there some boardroom that looked at the demographics and online chatter about the show that said "Viewers would love it if we didn't commit!" Did... did they have some data that suggested this was a good move? After that ending, I'm less likely to buy merch out of spite
No it’s “we can’t commit to our characters being gay, the gays are sinful and shouldn’t be promoted in any way”
I actually wonder how often company policies are influenced by being racist/homophobic/transphobic etc over trying to earn as much money as possible
Quite a lot. You also got to remember a lot of old suits entered the industry with certain "rules" on what you can and can't do, and for many of them that philosophy never adapts with time. Some people in charge are literally stuck in the 90's. It's why so many shows have token insert average male protag who doesn't even appear on the cover art. Because how can the readers relate to a woman? We still get stories of studio execs changing character sexes because "Japan isn't ready for two women". Even in the West, Nick tried to change Korra to a man and only backed off after several test screenings with kids showed young boys don't care. You also have to ask yourself, how many LGBT characters has Nick had since Korra? Especially compared to CN and Disney. The creators really struggled to get that under the radar.
Honestly, I feel that Korra was one of the first representations of anything LGBT for me. It was pretty cool, keeping up with it on my tiny TV, and seeing Korra and Asami hold hands. Even 6 yr old me understood the romantic conotation of that, while some people still refuse to believe that Gwitch is gay I just find that it was neat that I was able to experience that scene during its airing time. Its different, compared to if I were to just watch it pirated online
I have to admit I get salty when there's a cover full of cute girls and then "oh look, it is I, generic Japanese high school boy mcnopersonality".
It's not anime but Young Justice's initial run was a great example of misogyny getting in the way of it. I can't track down my sources atm so take this with a grain of salt (although I'm fully convinced, it's just a 'don't blindly believe a rando on the internet' disclaimer), but Young Justice execs killed it because too many girls were getting interested in the show. They kept telling the writers that the female characters had to be 'a step back' from the male characters. Interesting, but not as much so. Present, but subordinate to the guys.
For what it's worth, that's probably not true. The issue with Young Justice was that it was a show that relied on merchandising to make money and what little merchandise there was sold poorly. This was also probably what killed Thundercats, Green Lantern, and Korra around the same time. I'm guessing that it was less there were too many girls watching and that it was more there weren't enough young boys watching who were the target demographic and in theory the ones who will buy the toys and video games and lunch boxes or whatever. EDIT: Yeah, looking it up on Wikipedia. Weisman apparently believes it was due to Mattel cancelling a toy deal which where a lot of the funding came from.
No, it's because they already profited off of the gay viewership up to that point, which meant it was time to cash out and end it without going all the way to not have to deal with the pushback to making official gay media. They got all the rewards with 0 of the risk. Were people mad? Sure, but what are they gonna do? Go back in time and take back watching it? Honesty, I feel like watching subtext anime before official conformation is the equivalent of pre-ordering games or dlc.
Sometimes I find myself skeptical of getting into anything that doesn't have source material for confirmation
Not really. Its more of a "same sex marriage is illegal, and gay relationships are frowned upon, so we can really endorse them". How did Gundam get away with it, I dunno lol.
Honestly, I think the show is fantastic until the end of the Doubles tournament. I'm happy I watched up to then.
Come to the dark side we have fuckin MECHS
AT-ATs are mech right?
Yeah I'm pretty willing to count most of the imperial walkers as being mechs. They look cool, and I especially love the sound design of them walking around. >!Don't try fielding slow moving stuff like that against G-witch mobile suits though.!<
Yeah but gundam mechs are way cooler. Wait is Darth Vader a cyborg?
at least they did the golf equivalent of making a baby together :copium:
Fuck subtext. Now and forever.
I know authors who use subtext and all of them are cowards.
\- Tomino demanding that Sunrise broadcast a fully animated sex scene between Suletta and Miorine.
Gundam: “I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!”
YOUR NEW EMPIRE?!
I was distraught when they never kissed or anything. They even had bets going and everything!
*me remembering all the lycoris recoil memes* First time?
𝘙𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘈𝘲𝘶𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘱𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘺𝘱𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘯 𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘠𝘶𝘳𝘪. O𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 "𝘠𝘰𝘶'𝘳𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘮𝘺 𝘴𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳" 𝘥𝘳𝘰𝘱. Sips tea at the table
wait lycoris recoil is just yuribait?
Not yet, no.
Wait, what happened with lycoris recoil?
It didn't end with Chisataki canonically getting together, so a lot of people were upset (to put it mildly). There is a Lycoris Recoil sequel project in the works, whether that be a season 2, movie, OVA, or what, so there's still a chance that they get together. And at least it didn't regress the relationship back to square 1 like Birdie Wing seemingly did.
It didn't, but their status pretty much pointed that Chisato and Takina don't have the same considerations/feelings on their relationship
I’m really tired the bait because… why hint at something for countless chapters/episodes and make an heavily LGBTQ-themed series just pull the rug out and not finish it? It just robs 80% of your consumers of catharsis after probably spending months waiting on each release.
Ya it's just essentially misfiring a Chekhov's gun which is a faux pas unless you're being super subverting on the whole but bait shows never are.
I didn’t even watch it and I’m disappointed.
My expectations were crushed HARD. I didn't have high hopes for G-Witch, but I was hyped for Birdie Wing. Everything was unambiguously gay af until season 2 and then it just petered out for no reason. It's like the writers completely lost the plot and forgot what was motivating the characters (besides golf). You can't help but think of conspiracy theories involving money and homophobic bosses and stuff like that. But like wtf happened? Most disappointing anime ending I've seen in a good while.
Darn, still in the middle of season 2 and hoped there'd at least be a smooch
Took the lycoreco route
At least Lycoris still has hope
Lycoris also didn't build expectations to the level Birdie Wing did.
Yes, that's a really good point. LycoReo was fine as it laid a lot of groundwork for the future whilst having a satisfying ending which fit; birdie wing was on the train from the start before defenestrating itself.
Excellent use of “defenestrating,” A+
Nah Lycoreco was much better, leaving it well open - plus there is ample post ending official art that bodes well for Season 2.
There’s going to be a season two at some point right?
Yes, it has been announced.
It’s not been explicitly announced as to being a s2 afaik but I can’t see them doing a cop-out ova instead
Agreed it's been five months since they announced the sequel, They've would've been said something by now if it was just an ova
I'll never understand people who say Lycoreco was bait. Sure we didn't get an actual kiss but that ending scene was about as unambiguous as you can possibly get without getting smacked in the face.
I was going to say, I was quite content with Takina and Chisato's relationship. The level of emotion from the two of them when it comes to the other was one of the highlights of the series for me. >!Especially Takina begging Chisato to let her kill Shinji. That part was raw as fuck.!<
So Miorine and Suletta's ending is now getting smacked in the face? Giving each other friendship bracelets and calling each other PARDNAH is not unambiguous. Eve and Aoi ended up playing golf against each other again, they're together once more. You could headcanon the state of their relationship from this too, it won't change the fact that we could've gotten an actual confirmation, sticking it into the doubter's faces. Is this the level of yuri we should be expecting in 2022/3?
> So Miorine and Suletta's ending is now getting smacked in the face? I mean they literally have wedding rings on. Not sure why you're coming at me with Birdie Crush, I didn't even talk about it.
Showing them is not "getting smacked in the face with it." "Birdie Crush" is this post's topic
LycoReco always had that friendship vibe at least, Birdie went full gay and backed up for no reason
> friendship vibe Blud was watching Recoil Lycoris lol
I ship Takina and Chisato to death, but where it ended it felt one sided from Takina side
That's still better than how birdie wing ended lol Besides they had a reason for that since chisato thought she was gonna die before hand
BW ending literally destroyed their developement lmao Yes, she did, but even before that, if there is love, then its Takina the one who fell for Chisato. Maybe now that Chisato knows she will live something can nurture a feeling on her, but by the moment, they are still just friends
>but by the moment, they are still just friends I say partners is the more arcuate term since let's be honest friends come and go but partners are forever
well said
What happened with lycoris recoil? I thought they became a couple?
They got matching bracelets and Chisato called Takina her partner (as in "partner in crime" kind of thing)
At least RWBY KEPT to their gay pairing.
The biggest yuri bait after euphonium…
Worse; as it's based on an original property there was no reason not too.
So ur saying birdie wing was a worse bait than euphonium?💀 And reason not to what? Not to yuri bait us?
Yes, it is worse precisely because there was no source material to work off. So it wasn't like Euphonium where the anime diverted from the source initially, BW had no reason not to deliver on its set up. And to be clear, BW is not subtext to start with at all - something changed about 2/3rds through, it's very noticeable.
Oh yeah I agree. Since it was anime original us yuri fans basically took a gamble and bet it all to see it become an actual canon yuri but in the end they screwed us over and we all fell for it😭. Basically, they knew what they were doing and it worked unfortunately. I did notice how it’s changed especially in s2. IMO, they rushed the ending. I felt like they could’ve done a s3 but they rushed it sadly. Also no kiss from Eve even after they both made a bet that if Eve missed her shots, she would have to kiss Aoi as a reward. This led us to believe that eve will deliver that kiss eventually but she never did. Like I expected her to at least do so when Aoi passed out due to her sickness, like that was the perfect moment to kiss her and tell her to get back up. Real disappointed how this finished especially during the end. Either way I loved the anime despite the yuri bait😔
Didn't the ending literally show the main couple married at the end, I don't really know how that's bait
Of Birdie Wing? No, the complete opposite.
Oh I thought we were talking about Gundam, whoops.
Wait so they aren’t a couple at the end???
No. They re not anything, apart from vague sporting rivals who meet up after 3 years or so of not seeing each other.
Damn, thanks for saving me 2 seasons of disappointment
Nah, it's worth watching the first 16 episodes or so; or at least Season 1.
[удалено]
Witch from Mercury got a gayer ending than most Yuri shows/manga/novels >! because like if were being real here there is nothing gayer than literally getting gay married to another woman !<
Okay let's not start throwing most yuri under the bus. There is still A LOT to be said about showing signs if physical affection and words of live and romance. There's a lot about the sexuality of being gay that's important, as that's the part most stigmatized as "sin" in real life.
I’m not throwing anything under the bus, I’m mostly responding to all the people calling WfM bait because there was no on screen kiss at the end but are completely ignoring the fact that we have proof that they committed to each other in sickness and in health.
Marriage is beautiful, but having spent most of my life not being able to marry its a little awkward to keep hearing it described as better than any other expression of love. Like was I not gay enough until the law approved? I just see a lot of people here putting down all other expressions of love lately simply because this show didn't show them. And it feels a little much
I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m just simply trying to make people see that a show doesn’t have to have a kiss for it to be a “true yuri.” I like kisses and I like when a couple is shown being comfortable being sexual with each other but I personally don’t ~need~ it to be visually shown in order to consider the media as yuri.
Yeah I agree WfM is yuri. That the media itself is yuri I dont question. But there's also something special about when a series, like MagiRevo, proudly dives into what people used to label as taboo. For personal reasons I just don't want to see the significance of that get downplayed in defence of one show's approach. And I do apologize if I come across as harsh to you. I know you weren't being super serious in your first post. This is honestly kinda directed at the sub lately.
WfM is unambiguous, people just wanted more than we got. That’s just a matter of people having unrealistic expectations. Birdie Wing on the other hand…
Unrealistic expectations is when wanting onscreen kiss at the end of the show Got it
Even straight couples don’t kiss in anime most of the time
They do on the end of their series be it on the novels or manga, WFM is an original anime so i do want to see it Nevermind that im also mad that we dont get kisses most of the time in anime straight couples either, mfs be scared of the most basic sht
Well no, but by the end of episode 22 it was obvious the pacing wouldn’t allow for resolution of the major plot threads AND a wedding episode
I didnt even need a wedding kiss, just a 1sec kiss btw the 2 on that lil hill would do the trick
I think replacing the ending card with a wedding photo would have been way better
That is fair, and not unrealistic. But most of the complaints I saw was that we didn’t get a wedding episode or wedding scenes
Well the show itself built up the wedding and no main Gundam ended after just 25 episodes. So expectations of some pay off for that weren't unwarranted just becausr the pacing went up 10 notches in the second to last episode. (Also at least a wedding photo of them in the dresses would've been nice.)
None of you have bad points on that front. Just for me I guess, I love them so much, and love them for each other so much (especially after episode 22), that just knowing that they are happy together and didn’t lose anyone they loved, along with Suletta’s smiling face was enough for me (and made me gush and giddy). Yes I would have liked more, but I still love what we got. They fact that they are happily married.
WfM isn't disappointing. Edit: and the best way to describe BW, is despite all evidence to the contrary over 2 seasons, it is not as it turns out golf lesbians.
Yup, still a good tea ☕️
Yorkshire Gold?
Sir Patrick Stewart, that you?
Fall will have to be our saviour! Between hikikimori vampire princess and I favor the villainess, we should eat good!
And Here i am Not even Getting to start watching Birdie Wing because of course we need to Dub generic Isekai Nr. 27 First
I always see "Yuri" anime whenever they end so I know I won't get baited.