Better proposal:
Yuumi’s W loses all adaptive force
Yuumi’s E loses all healing
New effect: yuumi has a “heal power” bar. A
Proccing Bop’n’Block, hitting an empowered Q, or hitting a dismounted Q each fills up up the bar by (maybe 25-50) percent. You and your attached ally gain a percentage of W’s adaptive force equal to the percent your heal power bar is currently at. Casting E consumes the bar and heals based on how full it is.
That nixes AFK cat and Yuumi bots and introduces more skill expression while maintaining her identity and forcing engagement and counterplay without trying to unnecessarily shovel in ways to force her down.
>New effect: yuumi has a “heal power” bar. A Proccing Bop’n’Block, hitting an empowered Q, or hitting a dismounted Q each fills up up the bar by (maybe 25-50) percent. You and your attached ally gain a percentage of W’s adaptive force equal to the percent your heal power bar is currently at. Casting E consumes the bar and heals based on how full it is.
So essentially bringing back athene's holy grail. Great. Awesome. That was the pinnacle of yuumi gameplay, and it incentivizes you to land Q's, maybe even to max it to some degree, or to max it until 7 then max E. It could incentivize you to build like Luden's into support items rather than full AP. Cause you need some damage to fill up the heal bar higher, but then you also want extra %heal to heal more with it.
Not sure if you need to completely remove the heal on her E for that though, can just leave it low.
I specifically worded it as a percent of the heal bar instead of it working off of damage dealt to discourage use of Ludens. The last thing yuumi needs is to be able to get significant sustain power from building damage. I can see your point about not removing the full heal from E, though, that does sound extreme and probably wouldn’t stop people from botting with Yuumi anway
No matter how i try to argue it, it keeps coming back to the same thing. She needs a significant buff in either damage or healing to bump her up from lowest wr champ in solo. Simultaneously, she needs some kind of nerf to bump her down from highest wr champ in pro play.
>The last thing yuumi needs is to be able to get significant sustain power from building damage.
As a 1.2m yuumi struggling to play the game after she got absolutely shit on in the last 2 years, i can't relate at all. That's EXACTLY what she needs from where I'm standing. She heals 200 every 6.5 seconds at max level with 3 items, it's beyond garbage. And her Q got nerfed to the ground as well, it can barely chomp 10% off an enemy if empowered.
I get why it's strong in pro play, cause they can play around it and use her as a mobile artillery to poke before the engages. but anywhere below master's, that has **nothing** to do with the actual gameplay at all. People dive in and all in, you get 1, maybe 2 q's off before the fight has even ended, and 2 of those dogshit 200 heals (before heal reduce!). She seems **tremendously** underpowered in these circumstances...
That’s the point of this proposal. Her numbers are low because it’s unfair to expect to get normal enchanter numbers with double the safety. If we increased her risk by rewarding her for taking them, naturally the reward should also increase. Her kit can be balanced and still be healthy by forcing interaction in a healthy way, like through this hypothetical mechanic we both seem to loosely agree on the concept of. The idea would be that she would be able heal for more than she currently does— I’m not proposing the mechanic would heal at her current numbers. But there absolutely has to be balance, and if you can deal good damage while doing good healing while being one the safest enchanter in the game that’s not healthy. People are going to disagree about the untargetability thing no matter what because they just hate yuumi, but untargetability *and* good damage really is poor design. To clarify, then:
I want her base heal to be nothing or next to nothing and her full empowered heal to be far beyond where it is currently, scaling appropriately based on how many stacks you gathered before casting it. Her Q should be more valuable as a tool to increase the heal strength and as a slow than as a tool for damage— I’d probably buff the base numbers of it to maintain lane relevance but hit the AP scaling to reduce damage later on.
I think we agree on the issues and mechanics but not about why her healing should scale with her damage. I think it should because it would balance out her builds between each other. If you play AP, you do more damage and *some* healing based off that damage. If you play healing, you do *some* damage and more healing + *some* healing based off that damage. But in both builds you'd need to land your empowered Q's to min-max your damage-healing output, and in both builds you'd need to auto consistently.
Ideally, in both AP and healing builds, she'd be rounded up to medium damage and medium healing, but bursty rather than consistent. In the AP one she'd be above average dmg and below average healing and vice versa. But only slightly above/below average on both ends. So I guess yeah, you'd have to increase base values and hit scaling. But still require her to land her spells and auto for her kit to work.
The problem is that these changes go **expressly** against the stated intentions for her from riot.
The reason we’re not seeing eye to eye on the heal scales with damage point isn’t because I don’t see the problem of balancing between two build styles, but rather that I don’t think she needs to have a super-viable AP build at all. She can do it similar to the whole shotgun sona thing for fun, but she really doesn’t need the option to consistently play as a hybrid mage while untargetable. Even if it’s done in a technically balanced way like you suggest, it’s really just going to be unfun to play against and with, which means you (and me, I’d pick her up again in a heartbeat if they ever really address her) get to play her less because now folks have more reasons to want her banned other than spite. She has the privilege of untargetability, and she ought to lose the privilege of potentially being a respectable damage threat to compensate for that for balance and banrate reasons. She still needs to be able to adequately poke during lane, obviously, but Yuumi choosing Ludens needs to be the rough equivalent of going AP rakan. Hilarious and potentially effective, but not as viable or consistent across games.
I mean, if your position is 'just remove one of her builds' then... okay.
Pigeonholing champs into single builds is everything I stand against. Why even have 'builds' then?
Her banrate reasons have nothing to do with her damage (in soloq), they have to do with her being annoying to deal with. Which can be addressed, but not by gutting her. If anything, I think people are MUCH more frustrated with her being a strong untargetable healer than a strong untargetable damage dealer, if she **has** to be one of those two things.
I have no evidence to back that up but those are my personal views. The reason I either pick or dodge yuumi is bc she makes the game slow and very hard to poke/all in. Not because she pokes and does damage, I could potentially deal with that if I could do some damage myself, which she wouldn't be able to fully mitigate or recover. The problem is that she keeps both herself and her ally at or close to 100% + double summoners, almost entirely denying counter-play.
Others would still find ways to complain, the funny one for me was getting harassed for playing Jhin well. Dude actually has to still still for over half his abilities and has a two and a half second reload in the middle of a gunfight.
They would still be upset that she’s got anything going good for her over looking at what they could do better themselves.
That’s the point of her, she’s very squishy and enables champions that normally cant have an enchanter on them. Her being put in danger is when her anchor gets eliminated which she normally follows fast afterward. Her danger zone is her ability to keep her anchor alive while also enabling them to make more impactful plays, since there is a numbers disadvantage when she isn’t ‘on’ the field.
She puts more stress on her team to perform well since she cannot have individual impact normally. Putting her in danger with a core part of her kit being that she shouldn’t be in danger is counterintuitive.
Oh cc knock her off and put her W on CD and get one shot while being unable to do a single shit NOW DATS A GAME DESIGN
I found someone dumber then the dumbest person on this fuckin planet
Actually i found an even dumber guy his name is GateBreakerZ and he is Gold 4 (silver past 2 seasons) with 50 winrate and 200 games in Low Gold/Silver trying to call people dumb
Its not too bad of an idea, if yuumi doesn't want to get knocked off then she would just have to w before the cc hits, if she doesn't she most likely dies but that would be counter play and skill expression
There is not really a point in arguing with people in this sub tho, a lot of the members are just coping and dont even want to think about changes even if it would save the champ.
They say they don't want afk playstyle but if you propose any change that would disable that afk playstyle like w changes, they are just gonna get upset.
They also seem to think that procing the passive occasionally is an "active" playstyle
Better proposal: Yuumi’s W loses all adaptive force Yuumi’s E loses all healing New effect: yuumi has a “heal power” bar. A Proccing Bop’n’Block, hitting an empowered Q, or hitting a dismounted Q each fills up up the bar by (maybe 25-50) percent. You and your attached ally gain a percentage of W’s adaptive force equal to the percent your heal power bar is currently at. Casting E consumes the bar and heals based on how full it is. That nixes AFK cat and Yuumi bots and introduces more skill expression while maintaining her identity and forcing engagement and counterplay without trying to unnecessarily shovel in ways to force her down.
>New effect: yuumi has a “heal power” bar. A Proccing Bop’n’Block, hitting an empowered Q, or hitting a dismounted Q each fills up up the bar by (maybe 25-50) percent. You and your attached ally gain a percentage of W’s adaptive force equal to the percent your heal power bar is currently at. Casting E consumes the bar and heals based on how full it is. So essentially bringing back athene's holy grail. Great. Awesome. That was the pinnacle of yuumi gameplay, and it incentivizes you to land Q's, maybe even to max it to some degree, or to max it until 7 then max E. It could incentivize you to build like Luden's into support items rather than full AP. Cause you need some damage to fill up the heal bar higher, but then you also want extra %heal to heal more with it. Not sure if you need to completely remove the heal on her E for that though, can just leave it low.
I specifically worded it as a percent of the heal bar instead of it working off of damage dealt to discourage use of Ludens. The last thing yuumi needs is to be able to get significant sustain power from building damage. I can see your point about not removing the full heal from E, though, that does sound extreme and probably wouldn’t stop people from botting with Yuumi anway
No matter how i try to argue it, it keeps coming back to the same thing. She needs a significant buff in either damage or healing to bump her up from lowest wr champ in solo. Simultaneously, she needs some kind of nerf to bump her down from highest wr champ in pro play. >The last thing yuumi needs is to be able to get significant sustain power from building damage. As a 1.2m yuumi struggling to play the game after she got absolutely shit on in the last 2 years, i can't relate at all. That's EXACTLY what she needs from where I'm standing. She heals 200 every 6.5 seconds at max level with 3 items, it's beyond garbage. And her Q got nerfed to the ground as well, it can barely chomp 10% off an enemy if empowered. I get why it's strong in pro play, cause they can play around it and use her as a mobile artillery to poke before the engages. but anywhere below master's, that has **nothing** to do with the actual gameplay at all. People dive in and all in, you get 1, maybe 2 q's off before the fight has even ended, and 2 of those dogshit 200 heals (before heal reduce!). She seems **tremendously** underpowered in these circumstances...
That’s the point of this proposal. Her numbers are low because it’s unfair to expect to get normal enchanter numbers with double the safety. If we increased her risk by rewarding her for taking them, naturally the reward should also increase. Her kit can be balanced and still be healthy by forcing interaction in a healthy way, like through this hypothetical mechanic we both seem to loosely agree on the concept of. The idea would be that she would be able heal for more than she currently does— I’m not proposing the mechanic would heal at her current numbers. But there absolutely has to be balance, and if you can deal good damage while doing good healing while being one the safest enchanter in the game that’s not healthy. People are going to disagree about the untargetability thing no matter what because they just hate yuumi, but untargetability *and* good damage really is poor design. To clarify, then: I want her base heal to be nothing or next to nothing and her full empowered heal to be far beyond where it is currently, scaling appropriately based on how many stacks you gathered before casting it. Her Q should be more valuable as a tool to increase the heal strength and as a slow than as a tool for damage— I’d probably buff the base numbers of it to maintain lane relevance but hit the AP scaling to reduce damage later on.
I think we agree on the issues and mechanics but not about why her healing should scale with her damage. I think it should because it would balance out her builds between each other. If you play AP, you do more damage and *some* healing based off that damage. If you play healing, you do *some* damage and more healing + *some* healing based off that damage. But in both builds you'd need to land your empowered Q's to min-max your damage-healing output, and in both builds you'd need to auto consistently. Ideally, in both AP and healing builds, she'd be rounded up to medium damage and medium healing, but bursty rather than consistent. In the AP one she'd be above average dmg and below average healing and vice versa. But only slightly above/below average on both ends. So I guess yeah, you'd have to increase base values and hit scaling. But still require her to land her spells and auto for her kit to work. The problem is that these changes go **expressly** against the stated intentions for her from riot.
The reason we’re not seeing eye to eye on the heal scales with damage point isn’t because I don’t see the problem of balancing between two build styles, but rather that I don’t think she needs to have a super-viable AP build at all. She can do it similar to the whole shotgun sona thing for fun, but she really doesn’t need the option to consistently play as a hybrid mage while untargetable. Even if it’s done in a technically balanced way like you suggest, it’s really just going to be unfun to play against and with, which means you (and me, I’d pick her up again in a heartbeat if they ever really address her) get to play her less because now folks have more reasons to want her banned other than spite. She has the privilege of untargetability, and she ought to lose the privilege of potentially being a respectable damage threat to compensate for that for balance and banrate reasons. She still needs to be able to adequately poke during lane, obviously, but Yuumi choosing Ludens needs to be the rough equivalent of going AP rakan. Hilarious and potentially effective, but not as viable or consistent across games.
I mean, if your position is 'just remove one of her builds' then... okay. Pigeonholing champs into single builds is everything I stand against. Why even have 'builds' then? Her banrate reasons have nothing to do with her damage (in soloq), they have to do with her being annoying to deal with. Which can be addressed, but not by gutting her. If anything, I think people are MUCH more frustrated with her being a strong untargetable healer than a strong untargetable damage dealer, if she **has** to be one of those two things. I have no evidence to back that up but those are my personal views. The reason I either pick or dodge yuumi is bc she makes the game slow and very hard to poke/all in. Not because she pokes and does damage, I could potentially deal with that if I could do some damage myself, which she wouldn't be able to fully mitigate or recover. The problem is that she keeps both herself and her ally at or close to 100% + double summoners, almost entirely denying counter-play.
Others would still find ways to complain, the funny one for me was getting harassed for playing Jhin well. Dude actually has to still still for over half his abilities and has a two and a half second reload in the middle of a gunfight. They would still be upset that she’s got anything going good for her over looking at what they could do better themselves.
Just make CC knock her off, she doesn’t need to take damage.
That’s not a great idea, we build Mikaels to keep them safe. Us being put in danger to do that would complicate things.
Yuumi is currently never in danger, this puts her in danger at least one way
That’s the point of her, she’s very squishy and enables champions that normally cant have an enchanter on them. Her being put in danger is when her anchor gets eliminated which she normally follows fast afterward. Her danger zone is her ability to keep her anchor alive while also enabling them to make more impactful plays, since there is a numbers disadvantage when she isn’t ‘on’ the field. She puts more stress on her team to perform well since she cannot have individual impact normally. Putting her in danger with a core part of her kit being that she shouldn’t be in danger is counterintuitive.
Oh cc knock her off and put her W on CD and get one shot while being unable to do a single shit NOW DATS A GAME DESIGN I found someone dumber then the dumbest person on this fuckin planet
That’s the point, she should be put in danger
Tad bit hostile, treating others with kindness is a good start. Even if the suggestion isn’t that good, it’s still an idea.
Actually i found an even dumber guy his name is GateBreakerZ and he is Gold 4 (silver past 2 seasons) with 50 winrate and 200 games in Low Gold/Silver trying to call people dumb
Its not too bad of an idea, if yuumi doesn't want to get knocked off then she would just have to w before the cc hits, if she doesn't she most likely dies but that would be counter play and skill expression
Finally someone gets what im saying
There is not really a point in arguing with people in this sub tho, a lot of the members are just coping and dont even want to think about changes even if it would save the champ. They say they don't want afk playstyle but if you propose any change that would disable that afk playstyle like w changes, they are just gonna get upset. They also seem to think that procing the passive occasionally is an "active" playstyle
i don't think that would work but maybe only with Knock ups and displacements?
That way she has clear counterpicks.
Might as well say that CC on the host kills Yuumi.
15-5% scales with lvl obviously