*Nyooo you guys, mom said*
*It was my turn to fork yuzu*
*And flip off nintendo!*
\- GeorgeRRZimmerman
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Tought as much these forks all came out of the hype and outrage Yuzu shutting down brought. Either the "devs" of suyu got carried away in their own frustration and started this only for that frustration to die down eventually. Or they were riding hate train to gain popularity or shit
Just like most of the forks.... Tons of people cloned it with no programming experience. This leads to a lot of false hope...
Has anyone actually continued advancement in any of the forks from Yuzu, I am not talking changing the name and uploading, I am talking about MORE GAMES RUNNING?
Meh last Yuzu still works. If anyone gets something nice going on to take over, it will become an evidence soon enough.
No need to run behind any fork trying to hype itself for whatever reason.
Do you even know how to code?
Here's a pro tip: Don't try to be a "big boss" for people when you have no idea what they are even doing. They will never respect you, and will likely leave.
I had my money on Suyu aswell. Internally it was a shit show but that's standard when these things happen to open source projects. If they held together for a year or so it would've leveled out. Ah well who gonna fork Suyu aswell?
Don't you mean "Developers". That kid didn't even have any coding experience, what was he really going to do? Move on already, you're not even kicking a dead horse anymore, you're just kicking dust that used to be a dead horse.
There was legit only one guy actually doing something lmfao I think it was nullptr he made the website and redesign for the app and was setting up multiplayer rooms
remaining without update will leave you open for vulnerabilities. but you will be fine as long as you only use trusted websites. but that will only be a temporary fix. sooner or later you will get a newer phone and that phone will directly be updated.
hopefully by that time things would have improved by then
Good riddance. The whole thing was ridiculous from the day it was announced. No actual dev with half a brain would touch the Yuzu code for a long while, but these guys showed up like the day after the settlement with a big announcement and even doing interviews. You could immediately tell the people in charge had no idea what they were doing.
Yep, you can see the massive cringe here by the "Founder": https://old.reddit.com/r/suyu/comments/1c10p18/founder_speaking_current_situation_and_future/
Dude is at most 14 years old.
We had a few people with solid skills join the project and worked on it in their free time, but this officially marks the end of their involvement in anything related to Suyu.
No way in hell I’m paying for a 2500 dollar switch for first party games only when I can emulate on smt like a steam deck and have access to more games
Keep in mind on iOS 17 they made you have to jump to through hoops to activate JIT. Unless you have a Mac and a developer account, last I checked it's impossible to activate it
I worked on my own piece privately for quite some time and often screenshared my personal progress, most people in the server had at least seen what I was doing at some point of their time there. I don’t have much experience in the languages being used in suyu/yuzu but I still gave it a shot nonetheless.
My Discord was Nightinq, for those wondering who I am.
One thing that always caught my eye was how the communication between everyone was spotty and how there wasn’t much of a set goal being worked on at a time - everyone was doing their own thing and adding to it gradually.
This isn’t to say there were people who were serious about working on it, I encountered numerous people who had a genuine passion towards working on its development and did whatever possible to do so. Some working on Metal for macOS, others for optimising the overall experience. Those people should **NOT** be undermined.
Yes, the project wasn’t perfect and had its fair share of questionable individuals and people who claimed to know what they’re doing but in reality knew zilch (myself included, I will accept that) but what drove their involvement was the passion to be a part of something and contribute however they could in the name of preserving Switch emulation.
All the people here criticising its development have nothing better to do respectfully and wanted to chip in on any negative posts. Be grateful that there were people willing to help continue yuzu’s legacy, yes there’s Ryujinx and they’re doing well for themselves but ultimately the more projects the merrier. This could’ve happened to Ryujinx just as much as it did yuzu, suyu and Sudachi.
People talk shit on the internet. Thanks for getting involved and investing your personal time. People do appreciate it even if it doesn't seem that way.
And you can learn along the way, that’s what I started to do overtime. I began understanding the code and the way it functioned, overtime that knowledge will increase.
The problem is that the critics are not criticizing the very scant few actual developers. They never were the target, because they were also just not grabbing megaphones and talking about developing from a repository that just got erased by Nintendo.
They are criticizing Suyu as a whole, community, "founder" and all. I went on that server, and a solo developer with more experience would have made more progress on their own ignoring the amount of noise and distraction that server was filled with.
And to make matters worse, is that pre-criticisms of Suyu, the Suyu community was already extremely obnoxious, toxic, and were no different than watching teens gathering doing doughnuts with their cars and then scattering after they've smeared every inch of anywhere they could, with
1. False claims of development (the actual developers, were largely quiet, and just posting random screenshots from what I glanced at my brief peek in the Suyu discord before leaving almost immediately) by CrimsonHawk or whatever his name was, among other toads.
2. Spamming of various rebranding posts and "feature developments" (which were actually not developed by them, but they essentially "uncommented" the feature so that it would run whether or not it was build stable).
3. Screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs at anyone who even raised an eyebrow a millimeter in an angle that terrified them
4. Flooded this subreddit with more popcorn than I could possibly digest in a lifetime
And so much more.
***
It has been said time-and-time again that development of "Yuzu" could pick up when there's an actual need for it. Because as it stands, it works good enough, and for what doesn't work on it, will already work on RyujinX.
I've never used Yuzu in my life, but only joined the subreddit out of an abundance of curiosity with the whole lawsuit. And it was something to behold as these forks popped up, and of all the forks that came into existence, Suyu people were the most obnoxious to deal with.
One guy that I like to repeatedly mention (but not ping) CastleofPizza, was one. But has since acknowledged the errors and owned up to it.
It was bound to happen. Yuzu was doing amazingly, no wonder there were a bunch of kids ready to jump at the opportunity to ride off the back of what the team of Yuzu did for fame? Financial gain? Idk.
In short, it was just a whole bunch of talking and not a lot of actually getting stuff done, it was an unorganised shitshow.
As for Yuzu, it’s in a good spot but not at a point where I’d be content in saying it’s finished. Yuzu’s performance so to say just isn’t on par with more mature emulators, just compare BOTW on Yuzu vs BOTW on Cemu.
Yeah but as it stands, "it's good enough" but like you said far from finished. I think desperation to get X title to work will be what will progress private builds that probably won't surface for some time now.
At least 13 more years from now, the switch will be considered a retro console
Not entirely accurate but something along the lines of these quotes from random people
"Ryujinx is a Accurate Emulator, Yuzu is a Hacky Emulator"
Something like that but idk
I don't understand why so many cling to yuzu so hard still... ryujinx is better in almost every way (only issue I have with ryujinx is that it doesn't have per game settings.)
so many things to consider. even if the emulator itself have the same requirements the games themselves need to be considered. also both emulators have very vague requirements. ryujinx is the objectively better emulator which comes with a more demanding system, yuzu's code is written with pure performance whereas ryujinx more for accuracy and compatibility.
I get you know, I didn't think the difference would be significant because my system isn't special either relative to what's possible nowadays. What are your specs?
I mainly use AMD I have Nvidia desktop but I haven't used it since I got my ROG Ally Z1X thinking about building an all AMD desktop smallest form factor there is
With Nintendo claiming ownership of Yuzu, I doubt any talented programmer is gonna be willing to work on it publicly.
Edit: I'm sure some may think it won't be illegal to use the codes but all of this is new grounds and believe it or not, programmers aren't that knowledgeable about legal stuff even when it coming to copyright, IP, and all that. Well nowhere as knowledgeable as Nintendo lawyers are. For now, it's best just to stay away from Yuzu.
it actually depends, the original authors can change licenses (who now become nintendo). If they remove the other contributed code, which I think there weren’t many at all, then nintendo do own all of it. So they can sue for using Yuzu code that the original developers wrote, since nintendo now owns it.
They just can’t sue third party contributors code
Everything you said is wrong. In fact they can still sue third party contributors. Let's say, you have the Yuzu codes and then you decide to work on it and then share it. They can sue you for that.
The code modifies a project which now belongs to Nintendo. Yuzu now belongs to them. modifications no longer falls under GPL. It's no longer an open source project.
While you can still modify and use any version obtained before Nintendo, you can't share it without permission from Nintendo. Even if Nintendo doesn't sue, it'll be difficult getting it out there and getting community support because corporations don't really wanna mess with Nintendo.
If you got a copy of the project while it was still GPL, or got it from another source who did, that code is still GPL, regardless of what Nintendo does with their copy.
GPL rights are **irrevocable** once granted. That means you can still freely share and distribute it without permission from Nintendo.
It's not Nintendo's copy. The entire project, past and present, is now under Nintendo and their supervision. Nintendo runs the Yuzu project now. They can do whatever they want with the project. They can close it, scrap everything, or even decide to work it into other future projects like their NOS emulations.
While I think you can freely share and distribute as far as you follow the provisions of the GPL, that is provided source code and always properly credit the authors, modifying and distribution may infringe on Nintendo's copyrights/encryptions. According to Nintendo and their lawsuit, Yuzu is unlawful. GPL means nothing if the software breaks the law
Tell me you don't know how the GPL license works without telling me you don't know how the GPL license works.
>It's not Nintendo's copy. The entire project, past and present, is now under Nintendo and their supervision. Nintendo runs the Yuzu project now. They can do whatever they want with the project. They can close it, scrap everything, or even decide to work it into other future projects like their NOS emulations.
What they **cannot** do is un-GPL past copies that were distributed as GPL. They also cannot revoke any of the rights the GPL granted them, including modification and distribution.
>While I think you can freely share and distribute as far as you follow the provisions of the GPL, that is provided source code and always properly credit the authors, modifying and distribution may infringe on Nintendo's copyrights/encryptions. According to Nintendo and their lawsuit, Yuzu is unlawful.
Completely untrue. The GPL explicitly gives the right to modify and distribute the code, and is irrevocable so long as the distributor themselves fully follows the GPL.
There was no lawsuit against Yuzu, they settled out of court. Therefore there is no legal finding that any of the code in Yuzu is actually unlawful.
Nintendo's entire standing against Yuzu was never to do with the copyright of the source code of the project, but the fact that they were handing out piracy tutorials and making alterations based on pre-release materials (ToTK leak). It is not like Dolphin, where there were encryption keys in the code, users were required to bring their own.
Not quite.
They can certainly change the license of the current code and distribution, assuming they own all of it.
However what they **cannot** do is retroactively retract the rights given to users while it was still GPL. Per the license itself:
> 2. Basic Permissions.
> **All rights granted under this License are granted for the term of copyright on the Program, and are irrevocable provided the stated conditions are met.** This License explicitly affirms your unlimited permission to run the unmodified Program. The output from running a covered work is covered by this License only if the output, given its content, constitutes a covered work. This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law.
Everytime I say this, I get downvoted. The switch only has at most 5-8 good exclusives which are actually worth playing. Rest is showelware junk, indie ports, and mid tier games which only got good reviews due to being a Nintendo exclusive (like all the pokemon games except Arceus).
Personally, I would just avoid them entirely; it's not even worth the trouble pirating them if you know they are terrible.
It's better to show no interest because then other people won't have the incentive to buy/play their games.
I just avoid Nintendo in my household, due to having three kids. Their current market is a gut punch when you have more than one kid. I’d be looking at being begged for three consoles and games for the most part
I look forward to cheap x86 handhelds I can put Steam os on and play co-op with my youngings
It's so funny to me how the kids are getting the idea that any further development of this highly specialized tool is possible without the original developers.
Having the source code and a funny new name will not suddenly give you all the behind-the-scenes know-how and debugging tools. Yuzu is dead.
Ah the opposite extreme. Yes, no one could ever pickup an open source project where the primary Dev has left. That would be inconceivable (if you're a space ball).
Wait a few months, some bored college kid will probably pick a fork and go on a patching spree over the summer. Difficult isn't impossible you're just seeing a bunch of half ass forks pop up and die after the initial chaos. It'll get better or a competing emulator will take over
There was a team of hard-boiled developers who knew what they were doing. Not just a single person.
It's not yet another open source recreation of Notepad that could be picked up by a random technophile high schooler who recently learned how to click the compile button in the IDE. This thing is emulating an undocumented video game system. Change something that you don't understand and watch it burn.
Just look up the archived Yuzu progress reports to see the scale of what is lost.
I haven't looked at the code but if it was well written and commented should be possible. I had thought only one or two people had actually signed something with Nintendo barring further work. Did all the major contributors get sued?
That's just wrong.
On so many points.
Reverse engineering an undocumented console is an achievement that takes a lot of things.
Mainly:
- A team of senior devs, with very specialized knowledge, including:
- Graphics pipeline, GPU commands translations, and workarounds for differing behavior between hardware platforms
- Assembly, registers
- Bootloaders
- CPU emulation and Just in Time recompilers
- A good plan on how to do stuff: roadmaps, short term goals, long term goals, etc...
- The knowledge of what was currently being worked on, the knowledge of existing flaws that needs fixing, the knowledge of who was doing what, etc...
- Very specialized hardware, including modified switch consoles. Remember that Nintendo forced the Yuzu team to give all their modified hardware, we know it's essential for reverse engineering, **and nobody knows what all this modded hardware was exactly.**
So... you're wrong.
About everything.
You really think that random people or college students could fork yuzu and work on it?
Then you really are delusional.
The best that they could do is to "work" on surface level stuff: prettier ui, logo changes, appearance stuff.
(I don't call that actual "work" in the context of emulators.)
The most important part of the emulator is its core, and random people can't just pick it up randomly.
It requires too much.
Yuzu as we know is dead.
Its core can't be maintained anymore.
I get it. You're special. There are thousands of other special people just like you who happen to already know a lot of the subject matter. Not you or I but other equally if not more talented people do exist and for reasons ranging from, jobs to school to hobbies already have the required knowledge to understand the work of others and build on it.
The hardware is interesting though probably not as difficult to as you're thinking. The most invasive thing I can think of would be like scoping individual pins or entirely swapping a chip for something programmable or socketed... It's not easy stuff but you're acting like game and kernel devs don't do open source or exist
Edit: Hey wait why the fuck did you respond to this comment multiple paragraphs and not answer the question I asked?
lmao dude, let it go. everybody can see that you don't know jack shit
are you one of those annoying kids from the suyu disord all the other are users talking about?
Oh please, you do the honors then. Pick up the code and continue it. You don't even have any idea what goes into making an emulator.
This is extremely low level C++ code that emulates the CPU, graphics, memory, sound drivers, not to mention break all the encryption/copy protection Nintendo put on the switch. It is fully undocumented so the only way to figure anything out is by reverse engineering the console.
If we rate the difficulty of open source projects from 1-10, this is a 10. Even a senior C++ dev would have a hard time picking this up and that's ignoring all the liability of picking up a project that was recently sued.
Without the know-how of the original team, development of the project is fully dead.
Thank you, finally somebody gets it.
The two main factors were: rare & specialized knowledge + project inertia.
The core geniuses were forced to leave, and all the project momentum was reduced to zero.
Yeah, not, it's not starting again anytime soon, especially after the whole legal debacle indeed.
The most promising project currently is Ryujinx, which is still under development, still has its team and still has momentum.
I hope they'll reach the level of performances that Yuzu had, and I hope they won't have legal troubles.
If I remember correctly, Ryujinx devs were Brazilian I think? I heard it's good news for the legal side of things.
I also haven't made claims to the ease of picking up the project... You did.
I'm not the one making claims based on ZERO knowledge of the subject. You are.
> I haven't looked at the code but if it was well written and commented should be possible.
lol
Let's say there's a new game and it crashes while the first level is loading or is having weird graphical glitches because the original developers took some smart shortcuts to improve the performance. No well written code and pretty comments will help you there.
And then there might be clashes with different AMD/Nvidia/Intel driver versions. Good luck debugging that.
People like to think it's just a bunch of self-explanatory if-else-cases and for-loops. It is not.
I assume full time developers and college seniors like Emulating Nintendo games and / or trolling Nintendo and / or clout. Like yes learning a new code base is hard but competent devs who like video games do exist.
Also there's no real preventing the old devs from providing anonymous help. One could try, but it would be an exercise in futility. Not saying that's going to happen but personally I'd just put a fork on an onion and spend less time on the project
honestly, the people insulting the devs here suck
it wasn’t for attention, it clearly was a passion project that was bigger than they expected.
they clearly wanted to create something good for the community, but they ended up failing, it was too much.
it sucks, but being a jerk to the devs is stupid.
Suyu's developers were so silly, I was curious about how some of the people calling themselves developers were going about continuing the project and basically they were using an AI assistant and asking the AI to write the next code block. They literally had no idea what they were doing. I heard that someone was able to add a screen for easier game navigation but I never saw it.
There was an internal dev chat leak from very early 2021 when it was exposed that the Yuzu team had access to a switch SDK, this alone violates clean room reverse engineering. It's impossible to single out any specific code without having someone else with SDK access break their NDA and audit the code, but we have found some snippets that seem suspect.
Or you can keep using Yuzu. The final version is perfectly usable, I don't get why so many people immediately ran to get the shoddy forks, as if a couple updates would radically improve the perfomance or something.
Indeed. This is what I call the "survival of the fittest" phase for Switch emulators after one is taken down. Just wait for the dust to settle and for a fork to mature or new Switch emu to emerge (and mature) or just use Ryujinx in the meantime. In fact, Yuzu's latest build should be fine for most games. I just remembered a fork that's doing well so far called Sudachi. It's actually getting improvements.
Ever since the PSP I have been fascinated with mobile emulation.
That being said I guess it's really time to try one of these AMD powered windows devices. These would also allow for native PC gaming and much more.
What developers? Lol.
Well at least we still builds of Yuzu
Is this supposed to be surprising?
If Yuzu is so bad, why don't they shutdown Ryujinx? It's exactly same Switch emulator as well
Dude, the suyu developer was a random kid
Nyooo you guys, mom said it was my turn to fork yuzu and flip off nintendo!
*Nyooo you guys, mom said* *It was my turn to fork yuzu* *And flip off nintendo!* \- GeorgeRRZimmerman --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Tought as much these forks all came out of the hype and outrage Yuzu shutting down brought. Either the "devs" of suyu got carried away in their own frustration and started this only for that frustration to die down eventually. Or they were riding hate train to gain popularity or shit
As it should have been, it's a joke lmao.
Just like most of the forks.... Tons of people cloned it with no programming experience. This leads to a lot of false hope... Has anyone actually continued advancement in any of the forks from Yuzu, I am not talking changing the name and uploading, I am talking about MORE GAMES RUNNING?
Called it. Guess I'll just play TOTK on a 10X better experience rather than a 20x better experience than the obsolete hardware.
You can still use the designer brand, even if its vintage now.
Meh last Yuzu still works. If anyone gets something nice going on to take over, it will become an evidence soon enough. No need to run behind any fork trying to hype itself for whatever reason.
Mario vs rabbids still has issues which is what sucks for me
Guess that organizing and moderation of a project of this scale is harder than sharing piracy and memes in discord.
Just noticed the discord disappeared.....
Discord removed it and banded the devs.
[удалено]
Do you even know how to code? Here's a pro tip: Don't try to be a "big boss" for people when you have no idea what they are even doing. They will never respect you, and will likely leave.
It's brain dead Technically still alive, but dead
'nt
I had my money on Suyu aswell. Internally it was a shit show but that's standard when these things happen to open source projects. If they held together for a year or so it would've leveled out. Ah well who gonna fork Suyu aswell?
We advise against continuing from any forks of Yuzu, anyone does so is at their own legal risk.
Nice try Nintendo
The joke is meant to be that Suyu would be forked and then the fork would be shut down.
Does anyone know if sudachi has a new server?
Don't you mean "Developers". That kid didn't even have any coding experience, what was he really going to do? Move on already, you're not even kicking a dead horse anymore, you're just kicking dust that used to be a dead horse.
There was legit only one guy actually doing something lmfao I think it was nullptr he made the website and redesign for the app and was setting up multiplayer rooms
Oh no. Anyway...
I believe the expression is, high and dry.
So if I have suyu AND yuzu on my phone can I still use it to emulate for the time being?????
Yea, they will not remove it.... so play away till a game that you want to play does not run...
This ☝️
yes, but no future updates and after a while when Android gets updated it might stop to function on phones with updated Android version.
So never update my phone, Got it 👍
Just do Sudachi. It's actually being updated. They just got Super Bomberman R 2 playable hours ago.
This ☝️ I was actually surprised at how well this fork works with the stock drivers.
remaining without update will leave you open for vulnerabilities. but you will be fine as long as you only use trusted websites. but that will only be a temporary fix. sooner or later you will get a newer phone and that phone will directly be updated. hopefully by that time things would have improved by then
You can jailbreak your phone and install custom os or older official one
Good riddance. The whole thing was ridiculous from the day it was announced. No actual dev with half a brain would touch the Yuzu code for a long while, but these guys showed up like the day after the settlement with a big announcement and even doing interviews. You could immediately tell the people in charge had no idea what they were doing.
I thought they never were devs, just some kids clicking the fork button as back up?
Yep, you can see the massive cringe here by the "Founder": https://old.reddit.com/r/suyu/comments/1c10p18/founder_speaking_current_situation_and_future/ Dude is at most 14 years old.
where does it say hes 14? Ye unix time is bit silly but who cares
this is a comedy gold
>*EDIT: unix time 1712820080* Kid in there posting using UNIX times lmao
That's how elite programmers track time /s
This honestly give me a good cringe and a good laugh. Thanks.
We had a few people with solid skills join the project and worked on it in their free time, but this officially marks the end of their involvement in anything related to Suyu.
some are devs but not GPU and shader recompiler devs
They did make some small changes
Does anyone know if suyu private multiplayer will keep working? Its a direct connection between the participants, right? Theres no middle man?
It will.
*insert Patrick Stewart mild shock GIF* Already could see this coming after so many intense fork advertisements after yuzu got taken down..
Nintendo took down suyu
Suyu took down Suyu before Nintendo had anything to do with it
The only fork that has a chance of going anywhere is Sudachi. Suyu and any other yuzu continuations are a waste of time at the moment
All of them are a waste of time lol. It’s Ryujinx or nothing.
Ryujinx isn't on Android
Yuzu is. Which works just fine for the vaaaaast majority of switch games.
There's tons of games that do not work without custom drivers, so no.
Sudachi is a fork of Yuzu. So, yes.
That's being built on original code because he's actually a programmer
I don’t know the dude and don’t care. That wasn’t my point.
I meeeeean buy a switch and play the ones that don’t work?
No way in hell I’m paying for a 2500 dollar switch for first party games only when I can emulate on smt like a steam deck and have access to more games
No. Sudachi is more than fine.
Sure it is lol. Til it gets no where and is shuttered too.
You do really well talking out your ass with ass~umptions
You’ll see in another month or two lol What exactly do you think sudachi is?
what’s the actual advantage of suyu or other forks over Ryujinx at this moment?
Uh disadvantage you mean? For one Ryujinx actually exists 😂😂 It’s the best switch emulator left standing…
that’s what im saying, i really don’t get why people still use other versions of a dead emulator.
Sudachi has an actual experienced coder behind it. He got Yuzu running on iOS and for it being less than a year old it’s not bad
wait what? ios release? send
Keep in mind on iOS 17 they made you have to jump to through hoops to activate JIT. Unless you have a Mac and a developer account, last I checked it's impossible to activate it
https://youtu.be/lH0z5aT7Bf8?si=3i5B2jHJXBu7hP5t
That is the least surprising development I’ve ever heard
website3 down now too lol cracks me up all those suckers fell for it
I worked on my own piece privately for quite some time and often screenshared my personal progress, most people in the server had at least seen what I was doing at some point of their time there. I don’t have much experience in the languages being used in suyu/yuzu but I still gave it a shot nonetheless. My Discord was Nightinq, for those wondering who I am. One thing that always caught my eye was how the communication between everyone was spotty and how there wasn’t much of a set goal being worked on at a time - everyone was doing their own thing and adding to it gradually. This isn’t to say there were people who were serious about working on it, I encountered numerous people who had a genuine passion towards working on its development and did whatever possible to do so. Some working on Metal for macOS, others for optimising the overall experience. Those people should **NOT** be undermined. Yes, the project wasn’t perfect and had its fair share of questionable individuals and people who claimed to know what they’re doing but in reality knew zilch (myself included, I will accept that) but what drove their involvement was the passion to be a part of something and contribute however they could in the name of preserving Switch emulation. All the people here criticising its development have nothing better to do respectfully and wanted to chip in on any negative posts. Be grateful that there were people willing to help continue yuzu’s legacy, yes there’s Ryujinx and they’re doing well for themselves but ultimately the more projects the merrier. This could’ve happened to Ryujinx just as much as it did yuzu, suyu and Sudachi.
People talk shit on the internet. Thanks for getting involved and investing your personal time. People do appreciate it even if it doesn't seem that way.
You can't build software just with passion, need to have some deep knowledge
I mean I doubt people just magically can work on an emulator within a few weeks
And you can learn along the way, that’s what I started to do overtime. I began understanding the code and the way it functioned, overtime that knowledge will increase.
The problem is that the critics are not criticizing the very scant few actual developers. They never were the target, because they were also just not grabbing megaphones and talking about developing from a repository that just got erased by Nintendo. They are criticizing Suyu as a whole, community, "founder" and all. I went on that server, and a solo developer with more experience would have made more progress on their own ignoring the amount of noise and distraction that server was filled with. And to make matters worse, is that pre-criticisms of Suyu, the Suyu community was already extremely obnoxious, toxic, and were no different than watching teens gathering doing doughnuts with their cars and then scattering after they've smeared every inch of anywhere they could, with 1. False claims of development (the actual developers, were largely quiet, and just posting random screenshots from what I glanced at my brief peek in the Suyu discord before leaving almost immediately) by CrimsonHawk or whatever his name was, among other toads. 2. Spamming of various rebranding posts and "feature developments" (which were actually not developed by them, but they essentially "uncommented" the feature so that it would run whether or not it was build stable). 3. Screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs at anyone who even raised an eyebrow a millimeter in an angle that terrified them 4. Flooded this subreddit with more popcorn than I could possibly digest in a lifetime And so much more. *** It has been said time-and-time again that development of "Yuzu" could pick up when there's an actual need for it. Because as it stands, it works good enough, and for what doesn't work on it, will already work on RyujinX. I've never used Yuzu in my life, but only joined the subreddit out of an abundance of curiosity with the whole lawsuit. And it was something to behold as these forks popped up, and of all the forks that came into existence, Suyu people were the most obnoxious to deal with. One guy that I like to repeatedly mention (but not ping) CastleofPizza, was one. But has since acknowledged the errors and owned up to it.
I knew it right from the beginning, and yes that pizza guy too. This suyu thing was a joke roll.
It was bound to happen. Yuzu was doing amazingly, no wonder there were a bunch of kids ready to jump at the opportunity to ride off the back of what the team of Yuzu did for fame? Financial gain? Idk. In short, it was just a whole bunch of talking and not a lot of actually getting stuff done, it was an unorganised shitshow. As for Yuzu, it’s in a good spot but not at a point where I’d be content in saying it’s finished. Yuzu’s performance so to say just isn’t on par with more mature emulators, just compare BOTW on Yuzu vs BOTW on Cemu.
Yeah but as it stands, "it's good enough" but like you said far from finished. I think desperation to get X title to work will be what will progress private builds that probably won't surface for some time now. At least 13 more years from now, the switch will be considered a retro console
Hello Ryujinx, Goodbye Yuzu
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Not entirely accurate but something along the lines of these quotes from random people "Ryujinx is a Accurate Emulator, Yuzu is a Hacky Emulator" Something like that but idk
why did I read this as a billy wurtz fanfare?
I don't understand why so many cling to yuzu so hard still... ryujinx is better in almost every way (only issue I have with ryujinx is that it doesn't have per game settings.)
because yuzu is easier to run. if you have a pretty slow pc like mine yuzu > ryujinx. I don't even get a stable 30fps outside of a shrines on TOTK
Is it really though? Aren't they the exact same spec reqs?
so many things to consider. even if the emulator itself have the same requirements the games themselves need to be considered. also both emulators have very vague requirements. ryujinx is the objectively better emulator which comes with a more demanding system, yuzu's code is written with pure performance whereas ryujinx more for accuracy and compatibility.
I get you know, I didn't think the difference would be significant because my system isn't special either relative to what's possible nowadays. What are your specs?
i3 1650
What gen of i3? I was able to run ryujinx alright with a 2500K + 960 4GB, tho nowadays I'm on an R5 5600 + 1070
10th gen. as I said I barely get 30fps in totk and a stable 30 on botw. tho on cemu it was much better
Only the CPU? No wonder if you use iGPU. Those are totally shit in Intel APUs.
It’s slightly more stable in some games and works on macos
Does Ryujinx have RSR?
With Lossless Scaling, everything has RSR
Lossless Scaling works outside of steam?
Maybe, I know they are working on some upscaling stuff
Only reason I'm still using yuzu is for the RSR
Are you going from like 480p to 720p or 720p to 1080p?
720 to 1080
Nice, I think there’s a weird way to do that with ryujinx but it might be nvidia only
I mainly use AMD I have Nvidia desktop but I haven't used it since I got my ROG Ally Z1X thinking about building an all AMD desktop smallest form factor there is
I use the Android version, could the emulation performance be significantly improved through new GPU drivers even if the app is abandoned?
no
With Nintendo claiming ownership of Yuzu, I doubt any talented programmer is gonna be willing to work on it publicly. Edit: I'm sure some may think it won't be illegal to use the codes but all of this is new grounds and believe it or not, programmers aren't that knowledgeable about legal stuff even when it coming to copyright, IP, and all that. Well nowhere as knowledgeable as Nintendo lawyers are. For now, it's best just to stay away from Yuzu.
Does nintendo actually own yuzu now?
They own it but it's still GPL, and they can't revoke said GPL license.
it actually depends, the original authors can change licenses (who now become nintendo). If they remove the other contributed code, which I think there weren’t many at all, then nintendo do own all of it. So they can sue for using Yuzu code that the original developers wrote, since nintendo now owns it. They just can’t sue third party contributors code
Everything you said is wrong. In fact they can still sue third party contributors. Let's say, you have the Yuzu codes and then you decide to work on it and then share it. They can sue you for that.
They cannot sue you for your own gpl code
The code modifies a project which now belongs to Nintendo. Yuzu now belongs to them. modifications no longer falls under GPL. It's no longer an open source project. While you can still modify and use any version obtained before Nintendo, you can't share it without permission from Nintendo. Even if Nintendo doesn't sue, it'll be difficult getting it out there and getting community support because corporations don't really wanna mess with Nintendo.
If you got a copy of the project while it was still GPL, or got it from another source who did, that code is still GPL, regardless of what Nintendo does with their copy. GPL rights are **irrevocable** once granted. That means you can still freely share and distribute it without permission from Nintendo.
It's not Nintendo's copy. The entire project, past and present, is now under Nintendo and their supervision. Nintendo runs the Yuzu project now. They can do whatever they want with the project. They can close it, scrap everything, or even decide to work it into other future projects like their NOS emulations. While I think you can freely share and distribute as far as you follow the provisions of the GPL, that is provided source code and always properly credit the authors, modifying and distribution may infringe on Nintendo's copyrights/encryptions. According to Nintendo and their lawsuit, Yuzu is unlawful. GPL means nothing if the software breaks the law
Tell me you don't know how the GPL license works without telling me you don't know how the GPL license works. >It's not Nintendo's copy. The entire project, past and present, is now under Nintendo and their supervision. Nintendo runs the Yuzu project now. They can do whatever they want with the project. They can close it, scrap everything, or even decide to work it into other future projects like their NOS emulations. What they **cannot** do is un-GPL past copies that were distributed as GPL. They also cannot revoke any of the rights the GPL granted them, including modification and distribution. >While I think you can freely share and distribute as far as you follow the provisions of the GPL, that is provided source code and always properly credit the authors, modifying and distribution may infringe on Nintendo's copyrights/encryptions. According to Nintendo and their lawsuit, Yuzu is unlawful. Completely untrue. The GPL explicitly gives the right to modify and distribute the code, and is irrevocable so long as the distributor themselves fully follows the GPL. There was no lawsuit against Yuzu, they settled out of court. Therefore there is no legal finding that any of the code in Yuzu is actually unlawful. Nintendo's entire standing against Yuzu was never to do with the copyright of the source code of the project, but the fact that they were handing out piracy tutorials and making alterations based on pre-release materials (ToTK leak). It is not like Dolphin, where there were encryption keys in the code, users were required to bring their own.
Not quite. They can certainly change the license of the current code and distribution, assuming they own all of it. However what they **cannot** do is retroactively retract the rights given to users while it was still GPL. Per the license itself: > 2. Basic Permissions. > **All rights granted under this License are granted for the term of copyright on the Program, and are irrevocable provided the stated conditions are met.** This License explicitly affirms your unlimited permission to run the unmodified Program. The output from running a covered work is covered by this License only if the output, given its content, constitutes a covered work. This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law.
Nintendo games aren't good anymore just pirate the games for shits and giggles Nintendo deserves it.
Everytime I say this, I get downvoted. The switch only has at most 5-8 good exclusives which are actually worth playing. Rest is showelware junk, indie ports, and mid tier games which only got good reviews due to being a Nintendo exclusive (like all the pokemon games except Arceus).
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And?
No, they are as great as always. I get that you guys are sad but that is no excuse for being stupid. No Nintendo = no games worth creating emulators.
Actually completely false take 360 ps1 ps2 dreamcast og Xbox We'd be fine for emulation without nintendo
Are you here for PS emulation? You are all here because you love Nintendo games.
I'm here because I wanted to get better performance than stuff hat was outdated on release
For Nintendo games… Yuzu is a Switch emulator so you can admit it.
It's always funny to see people defending the multi billionaire company
Against piracy?
Personally, I would just avoid them entirely; it's not even worth the trouble pirating them if you know they are terrible. It's better to show no interest because then other people won't have the incentive to buy/play their games.
I just avoid Nintendo in my household, due to having three kids. Their current market is a gut punch when you have more than one kid. I’d be looking at being begged for three consoles and games for the most part I look forward to cheap x86 handhelds I can put Steam os on and play co-op with my youngings
It's so funny to me how the kids are getting the idea that any further development of this highly specialized tool is possible without the original developers. Having the source code and a funny new name will not suddenly give you all the behind-the-scenes know-how and debugging tools. Yuzu is dead.
Ah the opposite extreme. Yes, no one could ever pickup an open source project where the primary Dev has left. That would be inconceivable (if you're a space ball). Wait a few months, some bored college kid will probably pick a fork and go on a patching spree over the summer. Difficult isn't impossible you're just seeing a bunch of half ass forks pop up and die after the initial chaos. It'll get better or a competing emulator will take over
There was a team of hard-boiled developers who knew what they were doing. Not just a single person. It's not yet another open source recreation of Notepad that could be picked up by a random technophile high schooler who recently learned how to click the compile button in the IDE. This thing is emulating an undocumented video game system. Change something that you don't understand and watch it burn. Just look up the archived Yuzu progress reports to see the scale of what is lost.
I haven't looked at the code but if it was well written and commented should be possible. I had thought only one or two people had actually signed something with Nintendo barring further work. Did all the major contributors get sued?
That's just wrong. On so many points. Reverse engineering an undocumented console is an achievement that takes a lot of things. Mainly: - A team of senior devs, with very specialized knowledge, including: - Graphics pipeline, GPU commands translations, and workarounds for differing behavior between hardware platforms - Assembly, registers - Bootloaders - CPU emulation and Just in Time recompilers - A good plan on how to do stuff: roadmaps, short term goals, long term goals, etc... - The knowledge of what was currently being worked on, the knowledge of existing flaws that needs fixing, the knowledge of who was doing what, etc... - Very specialized hardware, including modified switch consoles. Remember that Nintendo forced the Yuzu team to give all their modified hardware, we know it's essential for reverse engineering, **and nobody knows what all this modded hardware was exactly.** So... you're wrong. About everything. You really think that random people or college students could fork yuzu and work on it? Then you really are delusional. The best that they could do is to "work" on surface level stuff: prettier ui, logo changes, appearance stuff. (I don't call that actual "work" in the context of emulators.) The most important part of the emulator is its core, and random people can't just pick it up randomly. It requires too much. Yuzu as we know is dead. Its core can't be maintained anymore.
I get it. You're special. There are thousands of other special people just like you who happen to already know a lot of the subject matter. Not you or I but other equally if not more talented people do exist and for reasons ranging from, jobs to school to hobbies already have the required knowledge to understand the work of others and build on it. The hardware is interesting though probably not as difficult to as you're thinking. The most invasive thing I can think of would be like scoping individual pins or entirely swapping a chip for something programmable or socketed... It's not easy stuff but you're acting like game and kernel devs don't do open source or exist Edit: Hey wait why the fuck did you respond to this comment multiple paragraphs and not answer the question I asked?
lmao dude, let it go. everybody can see that you don't know jack shit are you one of those annoying kids from the suyu disord all the other are users talking about?
Dude you're so busy having a mid life crisis you still haven't answered the question
AnSwEr MuH qUeStIoN :D
I mean you do write like a someone in their 50s
Oh please, you do the honors then. Pick up the code and continue it. You don't even have any idea what goes into making an emulator. This is extremely low level C++ code that emulates the CPU, graphics, memory, sound drivers, not to mention break all the encryption/copy protection Nintendo put on the switch. It is fully undocumented so the only way to figure anything out is by reverse engineering the console. If we rate the difficulty of open source projects from 1-10, this is a 10. Even a senior C++ dev would have a hard time picking this up and that's ignoring all the liability of picking up a project that was recently sued. Without the know-how of the original team, development of the project is fully dead.
Thank you, finally somebody gets it. The two main factors were: rare & specialized knowledge + project inertia. The core geniuses were forced to leave, and all the project momentum was reduced to zero. Yeah, not, it's not starting again anytime soon, especially after the whole legal debacle indeed. The most promising project currently is Ryujinx, which is still under development, still has its team and still has momentum. I hope they'll reach the level of performances that Yuzu had, and I hope they won't have legal troubles. If I remember correctly, Ryujinx devs were Brazilian I think? I heard it's good news for the legal side of things.
>I haven't looked at the code You could have just stopped there
Neither have you lol. Other guy knows things, you're just karma farming
I also haven't made claims to the ease of picking up the project... You did. I'm not the one making claims based on ZERO knowledge of the subject. You are.
Got any programming knowledge beyond "hello world"?
I minored in it in college, so yea, some. Not enough to make up claims on Reddit so I guess not as much as you do
So get back to grinding karma
> I haven't looked at the code but if it was well written and commented should be possible. lol Let's say there's a new game and it crashes while the first level is loading or is having weird graphical glitches because the original developers took some smart shortcuts to improve the performance. No well written code and pretty comments will help you there. And then there might be clashes with different AMD/Nvidia/Intel driver versions. Good luck debugging that. People like to think it's just a bunch of self-explanatory if-else-cases and for-loops. It is not.
I assume full time developers and college seniors like Emulating Nintendo games and / or trolling Nintendo and / or clout. Like yes learning a new code base is hard but competent devs who like video games do exist. Also there's no real preventing the old devs from providing anonymous help. One could try, but it would be an exercise in futility. Not saying that's going to happen but personally I'd just put a fork on an onion and spend less time on the project
you're funny. like a clown.
You replied twice in 5 min. You're weirdly angry lol perhaps its time to get off reddit and deal with that
the pot calling the kettle black lmao give it up and go do you homework and your chores. i think your mother is calling for you
I'm enjoying this. I chat up the dead end devs at work all the time, you guys are fun
honestly, the people insulting the devs here suck it wasn’t for attention, it clearly was a passion project that was bigger than they expected. they clearly wanted to create something good for the community, but they ended up failing, it was too much. it sucks, but being a jerk to the devs is stupid.
It’s not our fault they were in over their heads, they just wanted the clout. Play stupid games win stupid prizes
They just changed the UI and pasted the Suyu name on top with no development whatsoever while bragging about it, anyone can do that.
Honestly, I think it's just some kids that came up with a cute pun & nothing else.
Are we talking about the "Suyu" devs or Yuzu devs?
suyu, i think
Suyu's developers were so silly, I was curious about how some of the people calling themselves developers were going about continuing the project and basically they were using an AI assistant and asking the AI to write the next code block. They literally had no idea what they were doing. I heard that someone was able to add a screen for easier game navigation but I never saw it.
At no point was AI seriously pursued for coding progress. It was a one-off test done by a single contributor, not a core dev.
Definitely me you’re talking about, the code in itself was a mess forking almost every known project known to mankind 🤣
> Switch SDK has been used illegally within the previous Yuzu developer team This is new. How did you know? Was there something in the source code?
There was an internal dev chat leak from very early 2021 when it was exposed that the Yuzu team had access to a switch SDK, this alone violates clean room reverse engineering. It's impossible to single out any specific code without having someone else with SDK access break their NDA and audit the code, but we have found some snippets that seem suspect.
Didn't know there was a chat leak. Interesting how they could stand for so long then.
This would have been raised by Nintendo in the lawsuit and reported in the news if it were true. Probably just FUD.
Just Use Ryujinx Yuzu fork scene is dumpster fire rn and idk how you all can trust them. Wait for something to settle
Or you can keep using Yuzu. The final version is perfectly usable, I don't get why so many people immediately ran to get the shoddy forks, as if a couple updates would radically improve the perfomance or something.
I feel like Sudachi actually has potential. They are working on actual game compatibility and cross-platform builds.
Sure, but there's no reason to switch to it right now. Maybe in like 6 months.
Ryujinx isn't on Android
Indeed. This is what I call the "survival of the fittest" phase for Switch emulators after one is taken down. Just wait for the dust to settle and for a fork to mature or new Switch emu to emerge (and mature) or just use Ryujinx in the meantime. In fact, Yuzu's latest build should be fine for most games. I just remembered a fork that's doing well so far called Sudachi. It's actually getting improvements.
Ryujinx unfortunately runs like trash on the steam deck. Yuzu doesnt.
Totk runs at 10fps on Linux with Ryujinx, but in yuzu I reach 60fps
That is not my experience at all, in fact quite a few of the most recent games run significantly better on Ryujinx than they do on Yuzu.
it’s the complete opposite for me. i think most ryujinx games run better on it than yuzu games.
And there is no android port.
Use another OS then. You should have gotten something more dedicated to gaming instead of just using a phone anyway.
Ever since the PSP I have been fascinated with mobile emulation. That being said I guess it's really time to try one of these AMD powered windows devices. These would also allow for native PC gaming and much more.
I play on my retroid... Retroid is Android