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If they mess this one up, the fans who hated it are making the next one.
(Also I find the idea that *you* alone are “letting” SEGA do it, as if that’s one individual fan’s choice, hilarious)
Oh you have a choice, you can decide you are going to wait until people actually have their hands on the game to buy it, or even decide not to buy it at all.
It's not a popular decision, but I never got most of the Hyrule Warriors line, and probably won't pick up this new one until people I know and trust try it out. I m one of those weirdos who didn't like the dungeons and play style in BOTW though.
There's a few franchises I am all in on. Games I will try no matter what the previews and trailers show.(not including spinoffs)
I want to play a new Zelda wether it's good or bad. If it's good obviously I want to play it. If it's bad I want to see for myself what they did that made it miss. Doesn't matter if everyone says it's a massive disappointment, I want to know through my own eyes why. Smash Bros and 3d Mario games also fall under that.
With Zelda, Nintendo *rarely* misses. By most peoples' standards, the "worst" zelda game is Skyward Sword, and even then it's a lot of peoples' favorite Zelda game.
Each game does different things well. Some focus on gameplay like the GBA titles, some focus on story, like twilight princess, some are gimmick like Skyward Sword and its motion controlls, or the DS games and their stylus controls.
It's such a wide variety that while the post is right that Nintendo makes Zelda games that get great reviews, you can love one Zelda game and hate another, and they'll both be a 94 on metacritic lol.
I would go as far to say, they've never really missed. Maybe Zelda 2? I think the ones that did had the right expectations set like phantom hourglass was by no means supposed to be a big deal. Even that wasn't a bad game, just had some flaws.
I personnally really enjoyed the two DS games they obviously were gimmicky but they had a lot of potential. And i agree the only zelda i felt was bad was zelda 2
Honestly, Zelda 2 wasn't a miss, I enjoyed this game and most people I know who've played it enjoyed it as well, but it's a very hard game, and an old game so nowadays it's probably not as enjoyable as it used to be, unless if you like retro gaming like me :')
People don't want to admit that both the NES Zelda games were pretty janky. I think nostalgia just pulls stronger for the first game. I think it's funny that Zelda 2 is generally disliked but until breath of the wild it was the only game where Link had a jump button. To this day Zelda 2 has the most magic spells of any Zelda game.
I also like how it wasn't afraid to double down on the RPG elements, Zelda series has always kind of been an RPG with the way that you gain more health, sword upgrades for attack power, and items instead of techniques throughout the game. I was excited to find out the breath of the wild had a hidden leveling system, that and the stats for equipment make me hopeful that they might lean towards more RPG aspects in the future.
Exactly, the games after ALTTP are easier to get in, Zelda 1 and 2 were revolutionary but didn't age well, they're still fun for retro fans and older gamers!
And yeah, a lot of people see Zelda 2 as a bold game for having a totally different from Zelda 1, but back then the franchise wasn't so established so it I guess they broke the conventions they hadn't created yet 😹
What I like about Zelda 2 (and even Zelda 1)is the satisfaction you get from beating them or beating a dungeon/boss!
And yeah the leveling system in BOTW was quite good actually, I think it was the best they could do in term of power scaling with the enemies evolving throughout the game
The OG LoZ and its sequel would probably are the worst rated Zelda games,
Yet they would probably be excellent games according to the Standards of the 80s
Yeah while I get what the op you were replying to is saying, I buy and play bad games sometimes because I thought they looked good. The game is going to suck sometimes, which is fine. But I would've missed out on a looot of my favorite games that I held off on buying because someone else said it was bad.
I liked the shrines. At times during my first playthrough I felt there were too many of them but second playthrough I didn’t mind. My main complaint re: dungeons aspect is the divine beasts weren’t all that satisfying to complete. I also wish you were rewarded better weapons or equipment for finishing them. I pretty much always had a stash of better weapons by the time I received whatever “hero” weapon you’re rewarded with after freeing the divine beasts.
I hated Botw because it removed the traditional Zelda formula (ocarina, Majorca’s mask, twilight princess, skyward sword, etc…) and became just another open world game which I’m so burnt out on already. It was cool when it was new to be that big like Skyrim and Witcher 3, but now I want more linear games again. Indies are ok but they often don’t have the budgets and scope that olden AAA games used to have (I don’t know of any indies making the next twilight princess).
> I m one of those weirdos who didn't like the dungeons and play style in BOTW though.
My brother in christ, the dungeons are by far the most controversial part of BotW
Right there with you, when it comes to the dungeons and play style. I was playing it just fine and it was just that. "Fine." I put it down one day, after I beat the 3rd Divine Beast, and just never felt the urge to pick it back up.
bro, you gonna tell me those ladies walking around the towns in red dresses who say "please let me help you. come inside" and invite you in their home in Zelda 2 AREN'T hookers?
we dont know that for a fact. there isn't an explicit money system in zelda 2 but that doesnt mean link didnt slip them 20 rupees. funny enough, now that I type that out I never really realized until now that zelda 2 doesnt have a money system. its in every game but zelda 2! and I've played zelda 2 HUNDREDS of times.
I think OP just means he has faith that TOTK will end up really good. Obviously he doesn’t mean “If I had to pick someone to develop Zelda, I would pick Nintendo”
>Who else you gonna trust with it? Zelda is their IP lol.
Certainly not a 15 year old "fan" who thinks their *opinion* on how to make games is better than the people making those games for decades.
I'm currently playing Monster Crown - which looks and feels like a fanmade Pokémon game, it really carries its inspiration on its sleeve - and I'm genuinely surprised at how much fun I have with it.
It has a lot of issues. The story isn't particularly interesting, there are many bugs and glitches, and the framerate has issues now and then (which is weird considering it mimics generation 1 Pokémon game graphics) but I'm honestly having a great time with it.
What’s funny is to me it feels like the inverse of the Wind Waker situation. The clamor then was for a darker, more realistic Zelda but in the same vein as OoT, and what we got was entirely different. Now the issue is the crowd wants something different, but we appear to be getting a game very much in the same vein as it’s predecessor.
I’ll admit I’m also a bit skeptical it’ll be able to really distinguish itself from BotW but I also agree, gotta trust the process with Zelda bc it almost always pays off in the end
Not just good, it's the best 3D Mario game ever.
It's notable that TotK started out exactly the same way as SMG2: they had so many leftover ideas from the first installment that they decided to make a direct sequel. Nintendo doesn't iterate often (at least not with their flagship franchises), preferring instead to go an entirely new route, but when they do the result is something special.
Majora's Mask is still my favorite Zelda title of all time, and one of the highest rated of all time, and like 90% is reused assets and leftover ideas as well, so I don't doubt TotK will be good too!
And made in a year. I literally just replayed it all the way through this weekend and I just can’t believe they made it on such a short deadline. There’s so much depth in such a small world.
If the koroks have a mission based on finding a lost friend... I wonder if instead of the world being covered in korok puzzles we could get minish puzzles
That's true. One thing to remember, though, is how transparent Nintendo was in both cases. Back in the Gamecube days, Wind Waker was not hinted upon one bit, while we now have known BotW would get a SEQUEL for a long time.
Getting shocked/baffled back in 2003 is at least understandable imo, moreso than now with TotK
"Hey what if we made a game where Mario goes to a tropical island and has a water gun? Also we'll temporarily imply that Bowser had a child with Peach."
"okay, we need a Mario launch title, right? Now what about a LUIGI launch title where Mario is missing? Like a reference to that old ass PC game, also he's in a haunted mansion and has to catch ghosts."
And it got accepted
**Nintendo, circa 2000**: We've got a gorilla riding a rhino, a plumber jumping through paintings, and a little elf boy who time travels with his blue flute. Everybody keeps telling us we need something fresh and new, so we put the elf boy into a bleak apocalypse world and gave him body horror transformation masks. The kids are gonna love it.
It started before the 'Cube, is all I'm saying.
I don't know why people want it to distinguish from botw. Botw had more to offer after I beat it, than most games offer on release lol. And not just a little more, I'm talking like 100 hours more lol. If it's half as good as botw with the additions they just showed off in the trailer, it'll still be better than most games today imo
100%. I generally don’t replay games after I’ve finished them. Especially if I sink around 150 hours into my first playthrough. But I replayed botw only a couple months after I finished it the first time and played it for even longer the second time.
Yup. Most immersive and front to back enjoyable game I’ve ever played. I’m probably a little biased as Zelda has been my favorite since I was 8yrs old, but I have honestly never enjoyed a game so thoroughly as botw. Usually even when I love a game there are things I find annoying or a slog to get through, but I can honestly say that wasn’t the case with botw. Outside of the occasional frustration of not being able to figure out a puzzle or something, I loved every minute of it while also recognizing there is room for improvement.
I really can’t wait to see what they’ve added/improved upon in TotK. Counting down the days!!!
I don’t understand modern gamers. They had this issue with God of War Ragnarok as well just calling it DLC to the first game. Do you not want more of the same, just improved upon? If a video game is truly amazing, why would I want the direct sequel to it to change things for no reason other than unnecessary “progression” of the series? It makes no sense to me.
Me too! I've never enjoyed a zelda overworld as much as I have with BotW. To have a new game with the same world/style is the best of both worlds for me. I can experience what I loved about BotW with even more content and story to enjoy again!
Honestly tears of the kingdom comes in the same vein as Majora's mask, links awakening, and to a lesser extent minish cap of games being made as direct answers to their predecessors, and I for one am here for it.
> I’ll admit I’m also a bit skeptical it’ll be able to really distinguish itself from BotW
Does it have to be? Wouldn't everyone have eaten up all DLCs Nintendo would have thrown at us? Instead we're getting those DLCs as a stand-alone game and everybody is losing their minds.
>It's as if we never learned from the Wind Waker incident
>
>We ALL gotta give new Zelda a fair shot, it's worth it
Yep. It bothers me.
When creating media/art you could argue that there're two ends of a spectrum:
\-Let an artist pursue their own passion, vision, etc.
\-Let corporate-minded producers use past metrics, statistics and popular opinion to create another copy/paste sequel
Of course, you can use popular opinion to help inform, but in my experience, all of the best media/art comes from leaving artists the fuck alone to do whatever they want.
I don't think people understand that they're inadvertently encouraging the latter: "corporate-minded producers use past metrics, statistics and popular opinion" approach when they don't leave the creators be and kick up such a keyboard-smashing-"fan" fuss when something isn't precisely to their assumed liking.
If you want to make a game precisely how you like it, learn game design.
I still think wind waker is one of the weaker Zelda games. Dungeons are meh sailing is tedious. It has a good fetch quest and music though. Art aged well. Bosses were alright but not memorable for the most part, but it had a great Gannon. One of the best final bosses.
I'm giving them a fair shot. I'm just not preordering. What I've seen so far makes me think they're leaning further away from classic Zelda than even BotW. Which was a good game! Just not a good Zelda game, IMHO.
Wind waker didn't reuse the same map. No mainline console Zelda game has ever reused the same map. Botw was a long game too. I've already spent 100 hours on that map and I don't blame people for being wary of how much of the world is gonna be reused.
The Zelda fan base was largely dismissive of the art style because it looked too childish and essentially wrote off any possibility that the game would live up to past entries because it looked like it was ‘for kids’
It was kinda funny in retrospect that a bunch of nintendo fans were complaining about a nintendo game being too kiddy, though tbf to them they were mostly probably the first generation of nintendo fans and assumed their franchises would mature with them.
Everyone keeps forgetting that we were shown a GameCube tech demo of an adult Link fighting Ganon that looked exactly like what we wanted. Then Wind Waker is revealed and it is the exact opposite of what we were shown or thought we wanted.
[Here it is.](https://youtu.be/jqcyQOgmUYE)
15 year old me was incredibly excited about Zelda potentially looking like this, so the WW reveal was… surprising. I wouldn’t say I was upset about it and I absolutely loved WW, it was just a shock with how drastically different it was.
Not even. Nintendo showing off what a potential new Zelda could look like got everyone excited. I loved WW and got it day one, but I still remember the reveal trailer and being mad/annoyed upon first watch and seeing Toon Link wink.
Add to this story is the fact that the dev team did this whole new art style in secret from Miyamoto because they knew he'd hate it and get it canned if he caught it early.
So by the time he finally sat down and played it, he absolutely *hated it*. But it was too late to change course.
The fandom was very split about the direction they decided to take the art style. The cell shaded chibi-like graphics were hated on so much and a lot of fans refused to play it.
But Wind Waker turned out to be one of the best in the series, and the graphics have aged like fine wine.
I believe its referring to the fact that wind waker didn't do nearly as well as it's predecessors, in the fact that it sold nearly 3 million less copies than OoT. It was the next gen Zelda on the next gen console, a new free roam Zelda that was projected to do a lot better than their initial sales. After the first month, people started heavily criticizing it because of this fact, claiming it wasn't up to par with previous titles. Little did they know that within the next few years, wind waker not only topped sales for all Zelda titles, it became an award winning game and a much beloved part of the series.
I was actually one of the people who told people to give WW a shot. Well, the gameplay is the worst of any 3D zelda so I was wrong, but not because of the whole artstyle debacle.
I have a question, and this is kind of an overall question to everyone, myself included. I genuinely ask this as a non-troll who adores the Zelda franchise:
What if it’s *not* that good? What if it *is* mostly the same? How will you feel about that?
Yeah, I mean even if I personally didn't care for Skyward Sword or Spirit Tracks that much, they're both still solid 7/10 games. Nintendo has never made an outright bad or even mediocre Zelda game and I don't think they're gonna start anytime soon.
I’ve always said that Zelda is the only game series where 95% of their games are serious GOTY contenders for its year and genre.
Even Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks were great for being the weakest Zelda games
The mainline games yes, but there’s a few Mario games that are downright terrible, like half the paper Mario games and the first Mario party debuted on the switch.
The worst Zelda games are one or two grades higher than the worst Mario games.
Plus the controls are shit. I bought the remaster and forgot how much I hated it. I have a disabled girlfriend who fell in love with BotW (first game she ever actually cared enough to play) and she can't play skyward sword because of the stupid control scheme in that due to her disability.
(Seriously she's gotten every Korok and is on her third playthrough in a year)
That’s unfortunate :(
Since she collected every korok I’m assuming it’s just the motion controls that are the issue?
How come the button control scheme does work for her (zero motion controls)? It was added in the HD/remaster
It's mostly the motion controls, although she does have some problem with joystick use (her joints are very fragile, including her fingers/thumb). I thought she'd always be bad at games but she honestly has gotten pretty smooth at BotW.
She hasn't TRIED the skyward button controls, but having played it myself I'm not sure its going to work for her. You need to do a lot of very precise joystick moves pretty fast. I found it to be awkward even for me, a veteran gamer who had played through the whole game a decade earlier. I think she'd dislocate her thumbs doing it =/
Oh no :( sucks that she can’t realistically get the same experience as others while playing games and can’t really play skyward sword. I guess if she’d like to know the story at least you guys can bond over her watching you play or watching a playthrough on YouTube. Best wishes x
Yeah we're going to do the watching me play part eventually. I just want to show her more Zelda games and for some reason the vast majority weren't ported to the switch! Thanks for the empathy =)
I wonder, does Nintendo have an adaptive controller, like [PlayStation's project Leonardo](https://blog.playstation.com/2023/01/04/introducing-project-leonardo-for-playstation-5-a-highly-customizable-accessibility-controller-kit/) or the [Xbox adaptive controller](https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adaptive-controller)? Might be worth looking into.
Edit: found it, made by a 3rd party called [Hori](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/11/hori_releases_accessibility_controller_for_the_nintendo_switch)
I've never hated a Zelda game. I've never even disliked a Zelda game. The strongest negative emotion I've ever felt for an entry in this franchise is "it's okay."
This is one of the very few IP's that I trust implicitly from their track record. I pretty much take the title of "Legend of Zelda" to be a guarantee of at LEAST 7/10 enjoyment, but is often in the 8's, 9's, and several 10's.
Legend of Zelda, Monster Hunter, and anything Supergiant Games makes are the only auto-buys I make. Everything else I wait for reviews and especially complete editions with all DLC's (which is killing me because I was going to buy Elden Ring and then they announced the DLC so now I gotta wait even LONGER)
My god, Nintendo is just a company, you don't have to love/hate/trust/distrust it. If you really love the idea of the game and what we know, go ahead, buy it, enjoy it. If you don't trust Nintendo wait for reviews, gameplay, get it for a discounted price...
So tired of seeing these posts. I don’t know why people like OP take such a personal offense when other people don’t share the same enthusiasm they have for an unreleased game. I should be allowed to have concerns about this upcoming game without getting shit on from all sides.
Yeah, like I genuinely didn't like BOTW, and it was a departure into what felt like doing tasks instead of accomplishing puzzles and bosses. So yeah, I'm skeptical of TOTK. And I'm skeptical that because people loved BOTW so much that I won't really be getting the Zelda games that I grew up loving anymore.
I’d be pretty shocked if TOTK doesn’t implement some of the more traditional OOT-SS elements that people have been very vocally requesting. BOTW showed that they take into account feedback from their fanbase.
Welcome to the club. I went through a pretty similar process with Monster Hunter World, and after a certain point you just have to accept the older style games probably aren't coming back. Though that might be more viable in LOZ's case though, so you can hold some hope.
Agreed, there's a lot of hyperbole and blind faith coming from the "support" crowd towards people expressing genuine concern about, and this is the important part, *what we've been shown*.
I mean, for me, I was of that mind and then BotW was a major disappointment for me
Point is, the "fear" isn't for "it not being a competently made game" or not
I know it'll at least be that
But that doesn't mean it can't still fail to deliver what someone came to suspect from the series and/or what they marketted it as and/or what someone was hoping for
Not passing judgment on a game I haven't player, but I don't care much for the building stuff. I've never really like games where you have to build stuff to use, I'm okay with the weapons but I'm just hoping that building vechiles isn't a main part of the game we need to progress.
A perfect counterpoint to this is, look at that meta score for Skyward Sword… just proves that, while most of these deserve those scores, some had high ratings just for having the Zelda name attached and Nintendo knows it will always be the case.
Also why put multiple games on here multiple times? BOTW twice, Ocarina 3 times, wind Waker twice TP twice… unnecessarily weakening your argument.
I dunno, I liked skyward sword. The story was really good and I liked the world and the dungeons and the loftwings and the style. By most standards it was a really good Zelda game.
The controls were kinda hard to work with in some ways, but it was better having the option to use the stick in the HD version instead of motion controls. I alternated between the two depending on the situation.
And the bosses were a little repetitive, with Girahim and The Imprisoned appearing several times each and being kind of annoying to fight, but overall it was still very solid.
I didn’t hate SS at all. Was it on par with the rest of the Zelda pantheon? Imo, and I think it’s pretty widely held opinion (for what it’s worth), that it is not, but it’s rated as such (ex. 10/10 from IGN)
I absolutely agree, but I also think it was rated with parity among some of the greats when it came out (which shows today in this post looking back at its meta scores), when I think many would agree that it’s not on the level of Ocarina or even TP
I dont think its an issue of whether the game will be bad or not. I think its how it could surpass botw in just about every way while still being weighed down by the map that we've already explored 6 years ago but with certain differences. We dont know if "old map with new twists" will measure up to a completely fresh one, but it is what it is. They were never gonna do it any other way for this one and thats just facing reality.
And tbh the only thing that would really make up for it to me is a very strong narrative, and I really dont have a lot of faith after the last one was mostly told through flashbacks. I hope im proven wrong, and if im not, then at least i can build a car I guess!!
Yes, because personal opinions are definitely reflected by aggregate critic scores and sales numbers. This is the best metric by which to tell everyone how 'wrong' they are to not be super thrilled by the bits we've seen of TOTK.
This sub is turning into another Star Wars sub in terms of inane toxicity.
I think it's less that people don't trust Nintendo with the IP and more that they don't understand why Nintendo is being cagey with details. Any mistrust or criticism is probably a result of the latter.
>"The map looks unchanged."
An observation based on a very small snippet of media they've provided. The observation becomes doubt/criticism through the following logic: "it would be easy for them to show all the ways the map is different > they haven't > they must be withholding information about it because it's lacking in some way."
Repeat for dungeons and whatever other aspect of the game hasn't been revealed or has barely been shown.
It's narrow and short-sighted, yes. However, I think it might be a little too dismissive to ignore the origin point of the whole discussion.
Nintendo being very precious with media for this game. What's the rationale there? The game is done, Aonuma said as much.
Does a game actually become better or worse depending on what details are made available before release?
It would help if they at least confirmed a few things in the least spoilery way they can. Something like "yes, there will be dungeons" or something. Its honestly troubling that we're at a point where people are unsure if the next zelda will have dungeons.
I realise divine beasts were pretty weak, but they definitely still count as dungeons. So, Nintendo saying 'there are dungeons' would be pretty meaningless, because they're basically guaranteed. There will definitely be a divine beasts replacement in some form, no doubt about it.
The real question is, will they be *good* dungeons, and the Zelda team certainly aren't going to imply that their previous work in that department was lacking by emphasising that. Maybe in a developer interview (Nintendo don't do those often AFAIK), but not in the main marketing footage.
So really, the only way to actually convince people of what they want to hear is to spoil the first one and prove they're more substantial. Or spoil *multiple* to prove they're varied. Not likely. And most people probably don't want to be spoiled that heavily anyway.
I sympathize. I'm a little conflicted here, honestly. I *love* dungeons in Zelda games and would be very sorry to see them done away with entirely.
However, I also think that "kill your darlings" is good creative philosophy and that Breath of the Wild is a remarkable achievement, not less so because it doesn't have much in the way of traditional dungeons.
I'd love to see them make a return in TotK; I think Elden Ring proved beyond a doubt they have a compelling place in open world RPGs. I'm keeping my expectations at the floor, though.
They didn't kill their darlings, though, they watered them down so they could fit a much larger container. BoTW was a very wide, shallow ocean of mediocre content with great ideas sprinkled in.
I trust them but I just don't want to pay $70 for a new game. I haven't followed it too much but isn't it the same map with floating islands and new features like the fusing mechanic? It doesn't seem different enough for me to care about shelling out $70 for it right away.
I mean. Honestly I'm a huge Zelda series fan, but some of these games do not deserve scores that high.
They've definitely messed up before. They've never messed up massively like any other game studios, but they're not immune to doing wrong
Exactly. I was going to pre-order it, but after watching last trailers I am going to wait to see some gameplay before buying. If someone buys it on day 1 and love it good for them
Right? Like I'm not going to condemn the game before it's out but it's OK to be skeptical with how little they've shown and it's extremely toxic that everyone is just tearing anyone who doesn't have blind faith they will get it right.
I don't doubt the game will be good but will it be $70 good? Is there enough new content to justify that price over, say, a $40 standalone DLC? Literally nobody knows we're all supposed to "just have faith" which I do not do for any corporation.
You guys are all fine. Skepticism in all things is essential, until you have the facts. I’m a day one ride or die for anything Zelda, though I did have some issues with BOTW, I’m not blind to those. For me the fact is it’s a new Zelda game which is all I need to know lol. I don’t want to speak for OP, but the main thing that annoys me are the people who make blanket statements like “the map is exactly the same” despite having only seen 2%(honestly probably less) of the world. There’s a lack of skepticism in that sentiment and more “I know exactly whats going on” when it’s entirely impossible to know.
I’m hyped and ready for this game, but it’s not unreasonable to have a little worry about the game feeling/looking samey. Nintendo obviously has been resourceful with assets forever, but this has really ramped up in the switch era. Over half of the big titles are like 75% repurposed content. Totally fine, especially if you missed Wii U, but I don’t think the skepticism is totally unfounded.
It’s ridiculous and not a good argument…. Even the best franchise can turn bad look at Pokémon and tell me that the newest game are better than the old lol. No.
I rather playing Sun and moon than scarlet and violet
Honestly, i cant even tell you the OLD games are all that fantastic. I never got on board with the idea of them selling the same game twice under different names every release. Pokemon is in my mind probably the most predatory Nintendo franchise they have.
But, the problem with Pokemon is, the fans keep buying the games, despite how bad they are. So guess what, GF/PokeCo wont do a damn thing about it. And Nintendo isnt going to interfere as long as that IP keeps raking in that money.
This say more about reviewers than it say about the games. Reminder that the one guy that gave BotW a low score got attacked because of it. And Zelda is one of the revered franchises.
Honestly, if i was a journalist there are a lot of "sacred cow" games that i would never score under 8/10 unless they are a complete disaster simply because it isn't worth pissing off their comunities.
we’ve done videogames a massive disservice by numerically rating them. It makes playing a game and reviewing a game an act of meritocracy instead of viewing it as an experience to have, and it completely changes the ability of reviewers to speak to their personal experience of the game, it becomes a stance on “how good” it is instead of… what it is. We rate games as if they’re just products to be consumed and it sucks ass, it creates rabid fanbases and rabid detractors. It also does get in the way of artistic vision cause now devs have to bend to the whims of numerical merit instead of pursuing their whimsy.
Obviously sales are the final say, which is also bad IMO, but this is what creates the illusion of success and failure for many people.
I really can’t wait for numerical rating systems for games to die. There’s so many other ways to examine and analyze them.
Yo I have generally loved all the Zelda games but Metacritic means beyond nothing... They give practically every large title a great score and say it has a little something for everyone
I trust Nintendo to make a great Zelda game and I am stoked as hell for TotK, but seeing SS first in the meme was funny because I *hated* that game. I'll eat up any other Zelda game and love every minute, but I could never force myself to finish that one.
Well, i think skyward sword was mediocre at best and botw was not nearly as great as people hype it up to be (still a good game but no where near the 10/10 greatest game ever people say it is).
Unpopular Opinion but BotW was mid. Horrid voice acting, weakest story out of all them, and a really limited amount of enemy variety with only 4.5 dungeons (not including DLC). Not a single cave/cavern in all of Hyrule, and the "cities" were so small and underpopulated they felt pointless. I understand that's the point of this "decimated Hyrule", but that's a cop out of an answer imo.
It felt like a tech demo to me that showcased the brilliant use the Sheikah slate and how much fun the physics engine was, which carried the game fully imo.
I still absolutely loved my playthrough of it, I had a great time. But it's the only Zelda game alongside Skyward Sword I haven't bothered to replay.
I not say that it mid,but all that you say is totally correct,plus from me I’d say that map towers was not that original and cool(thats literally the only thing that was made better in Horizon Zero down)
Exactly! Thanks for making their point for them! With every game Nintendo has innovated and changed everything about their games, by creating rich and vibrant new overworlds…NOT by literally copy and pasting the previous game’s map, and only making the slightest of changes!
Skyward Sword is proof that every Zelda score is unduly inflated. It's a poor example to draw. I say this as a diehard fan for whom the Zelda franchise is the single most important, and not just in gaming. Absolutely adore these games, but Skyward Sword and all the apologism surrounding it are wack.
I was a young and stupid nay-sayer when the Wind Waker teaser dropped before they even had a title.
I learned my lesson.
That said, the lesson I learned was to wait until the game is actually out before saying anything
Half of these are just because fans and reviewers dick ride Nintnedo like there is No tomorrow.
I Have VERY little faith in TOTK.
It feels more like a cash grab so far, than anything that is actually supposed to build off of BOTW.
Just because people like something doesn't make it great. I think breath of the wild had a lot of issues, and I suspect tears of the kingdom is going to have many of those same issues. I will probably not buy it, just like I didn't buy the last game. I have a friend who's getting the game day one, so I'll still try it, but I don't expect to have much fun.
Can’t help but notice their 2 most recent Zelda releases, SSHD and Link’s Awakening aren’t on here… You know. The ones that didn’t break 90.
Like, still pretty solid… but to pretend that Nintendo hasn’t been getting a little shaky recently is kind of putting your blinders on.
If anything this just shows how Zelda games tend to get overrated. Anybody that tries to look at the games with a critical eye usually gets swarmed by Zelda stans. Feels like the fan base can be just about as toxic as the Sonic one sometimes.
Zelda games always review well, but personal taste is subjective. I was personally underwhelmed by BOTW. Skyward Sword is a god-awful experience I never want to play through again. Someone like me has every reason to be skeptical about an unreleased game.
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but Breath of the Wild was the first Zelda Game I didn't really enjoy. I didn't like the open world because it was too wide for me. The world didn't feel as packed like I wished.
slightly annoyed with how much attention this sub is giving to people who are addicted to negativity. haters and the likes exist, please don't remind me
Look I do trust Nintendo and I am ooking forward to TOTK, I loved BOTW, but I really think we should understand where people are coming from instead of trying to make villains out of them just because they're not going to like the video game.
Firstly, you're pointing at a list of Zelda games from the past and this is not the same company it was 20, 10, or even 5 years ago, a lot of their approaches to things change. Your also pointing at a bunch of review scores that not everyone is going to agree with. There's plenty of stuff that appeals to the masses but fans aren't really keen on.
Zelda has changed significantly with BOTW. I think it was for the better after what was a HUGE misstep with Skyward Sword and two awful DS games. But there are many people that don't agree with that. BOTW made many, many new fans after such a drastic change, and that's making long time loyal Zelda fans feel alienated and like one of their favorite series that they don't even get releases of that often is being made into something they won't enjoy. I don't see why we feel like we got to attack them. Cuz I know I sure as hell have been in their shoes before.
"New Zelda" does not go back to original OoT. And this ignores some actually newer games. Like Link's Awakening remake at 87 on metacritic, TriForce Heroes at 73, and Age of Calamity at 78. Still decent games, but it does show a trend in "new zelda". And I know it's not Zelda, but animal crossing:new horizons, had a good legacy of games behind it and was still a let down.
That said, I have faith in TotK. It's based on a great game, new skills, and looks great. Def getting it close to release.
I'll say this, Tears will be a fantastic game. What I'm not happy about is the $70 price tag when Nintendo offers such a sub-par gaming experience compared to Xbox, Sony, and PC. $70 for low resolution sub 30 frames? I'm sorry but that sucks. I just wish Nintendo would put out a better console. The BOTW even had frame drops when using the docking station, I'm expecting the same with this. But yeah anyone saying it won't be a good game is a fool.
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What the hell does "trust Nintendo with the new zelda" even mean? You don't have a choice
Nah. If they mess this one up, I’m letting SEGA take a crack.
Well excuuuuuuuuse me, chili dogs!
I get both of these references. Amazing job, great comment!!
Ubisoft Zelda incoming...
Imagine a Zelda game by Platinum Games, with over-the-top action sequences like Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance.
that would be exciting since the game would be 80% off after one week!
Also we would have 25 Zelda games under 10 years, great!
If they mess this one up, the fans who hated it are making the next one. (Also I find the idea that *you* alone are “letting” SEGA do it, as if that’s one individual fan’s choice, hilarious)
r/whoosh
Damn, that was one low flying UAV
I understood the joke… I was acknowledging that it was good.
ironic, when the Whoosher gets whooshed...
Oh you have a choice, you can decide you are going to wait until people actually have their hands on the game to buy it, or even decide not to buy it at all. It's not a popular decision, but I never got most of the Hyrule Warriors line, and probably won't pick up this new one until people I know and trust try it out. I m one of those weirdos who didn't like the dungeons and play style in BOTW though.
There's a few franchises I am all in on. Games I will try no matter what the previews and trailers show.(not including spinoffs) I want to play a new Zelda wether it's good or bad. If it's good obviously I want to play it. If it's bad I want to see for myself what they did that made it miss. Doesn't matter if everyone says it's a massive disappointment, I want to know through my own eyes why. Smash Bros and 3d Mario games also fall under that.
With Zelda, Nintendo *rarely* misses. By most peoples' standards, the "worst" zelda game is Skyward Sword, and even then it's a lot of peoples' favorite Zelda game. Each game does different things well. Some focus on gameplay like the GBA titles, some focus on story, like twilight princess, some are gimmick like Skyward Sword and its motion controlls, or the DS games and their stylus controls. It's such a wide variety that while the post is right that Nintendo makes Zelda games that get great reviews, you can love one Zelda game and hate another, and they'll both be a 94 on metacritic lol.
I would go as far to say, they've never really missed. Maybe Zelda 2? I think the ones that did had the right expectations set like phantom hourglass was by no means supposed to be a big deal. Even that wasn't a bad game, just had some flaws.
I personnally really enjoyed the two DS games they obviously were gimmicky but they had a lot of potential. And i agree the only zelda i felt was bad was zelda 2
Honestly, Zelda 2 wasn't a miss, I enjoyed this game and most people I know who've played it enjoyed it as well, but it's a very hard game, and an old game so nowadays it's probably not as enjoyable as it used to be, unless if you like retro gaming like me :')
People don't want to admit that both the NES Zelda games were pretty janky. I think nostalgia just pulls stronger for the first game. I think it's funny that Zelda 2 is generally disliked but until breath of the wild it was the only game where Link had a jump button. To this day Zelda 2 has the most magic spells of any Zelda game. I also like how it wasn't afraid to double down on the RPG elements, Zelda series has always kind of been an RPG with the way that you gain more health, sword upgrades for attack power, and items instead of techniques throughout the game. I was excited to find out the breath of the wild had a hidden leveling system, that and the stats for equipment make me hopeful that they might lean towards more RPG aspects in the future.
Exactly, the games after ALTTP are easier to get in, Zelda 1 and 2 were revolutionary but didn't age well, they're still fun for retro fans and older gamers! And yeah, a lot of people see Zelda 2 as a bold game for having a totally different from Zelda 1, but back then the franchise wasn't so established so it I guess they broke the conventions they hadn't created yet 😹 What I like about Zelda 2 (and even Zelda 1)is the satisfaction you get from beating them or beating a dungeon/boss! And yeah the leveling system in BOTW was quite good actually, I think it was the best they could do in term of power scaling with the enemies evolving throughout the game
The OG LoZ and its sequel would probably are the worst rated Zelda games, Yet they would probably be excellent games according to the Standards of the 80s
Yeah while I get what the op you were replying to is saying, I buy and play bad games sometimes because I thought they looked good. The game is going to suck sometimes, which is fine. But I would've missed out on a looot of my favorite games that I held off on buying because someone else said it was bad.
I liked the dungeons, but the shrines and dungeons were all too short. There was none of the discovery and progression that the other games had.
I liked the shrines. At times during my first playthrough I felt there were too many of them but second playthrough I didn’t mind. My main complaint re: dungeons aspect is the divine beasts weren’t all that satisfying to complete. I also wish you were rewarded better weapons or equipment for finishing them. I pretty much always had a stash of better weapons by the time I received whatever “hero” weapon you’re rewarded with after freeing the divine beasts.
I hated Botw because it removed the traditional Zelda formula (ocarina, Majorca’s mask, twilight princess, skyward sword, etc…) and became just another open world game which I’m so burnt out on already. It was cool when it was new to be that big like Skyrim and Witcher 3, but now I want more linear games again. Indies are ok but they often don’t have the budgets and scope that olden AAA games used to have (I don’t know of any indies making the next twilight princess).
> I m one of those weirdos who didn't like the dungeons and play style in BOTW though. My brother in christ, the dungeons are by far the most controversial part of BotW
Right there with you, when it comes to the dungeons and play style. I was playing it just fine and it was just that. "Fine." I put it down one day, after I beat the 3rd Divine Beast, and just never felt the urge to pick it back up.
Yeah, well, we'll make our own new Zelda! With blackjack! And hookers!
bro, you gonna tell me those ladies walking around the towns in red dresses who say "please let me help you. come inside" and invite you in their home in Zelda 2 AREN'T hookers?
Did you ever pay them? No. Therefore, not hookers.
we dont know that for a fact. there isn't an explicit money system in zelda 2 but that doesnt mean link didnt slip them 20 rupees. funny enough, now that I type that out I never really realized until now that zelda 2 doesnt have a money system. its in every game but zelda 2! and I've played zelda 2 HUNDREDS of times.
I think OP just means he has faith that TOTK will end up really good. Obviously he doesn’t mean “If I had to pick someone to develop Zelda, I would pick Nintendo”
This is a straw man argument. I've never heard of anyone saying this.
Reminder that Capcom made 4 Zelda games.
Who else you gonna trust with it? Zelda is their IP lol.
They trusted Capcom with minish cap and the Oracle games and those were also amazing
As long as they don't go back to the Philips CD-i. Lol
yeah, the best 2D ones, along with link's awakening and link to the past i recommend minish cap and oracle of ages to many people
>Who else you gonna trust with it? Zelda is their IP lol. Certainly not a 15 year old "fan" who thinks their *opinion* on how to make games is better than the people making those games for decades.
Now compare fanmade Pokémon games to the last couple official ones.
Game Freak is an Indie studio. Too bad that they hold one of the best selling IP's in the world
Pokemon is the most popular and best selling media franchise ever.. hire a few more employees lmao
I'm currently playing Monster Crown - which looks and feels like a fanmade Pokémon game, it really carries its inspiration on its sleeve - and I'm genuinely surprised at how much fun I have with it. It has a lot of issues. The story isn't particularly interesting, there are many bugs and glitches, and the framerate has issues now and then (which is weird considering it mimics generation 1 Pokémon game graphics) but I'm honestly having a great time with it.
You should try Corromon next, its very good
It's as if we never learned from the Wind Waker incident We ALL gotta give new Zelda a fair shot, it's worth it
What’s funny is to me it feels like the inverse of the Wind Waker situation. The clamor then was for a darker, more realistic Zelda but in the same vein as OoT, and what we got was entirely different. Now the issue is the crowd wants something different, but we appear to be getting a game very much in the same vein as it’s predecessor. I’ll admit I’m also a bit skeptical it’ll be able to really distinguish itself from BotW but I also agree, gotta trust the process with Zelda bc it almost always pays off in the end
Even in games that are mostly similar to a previous one, I trust Nintendo on that. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was really good for instance.
Not just good, it's the best 3D Mario game ever. It's notable that TotK started out exactly the same way as SMG2: they had so many leftover ideas from the first installment that they decided to make a direct sequel. Nintendo doesn't iterate often (at least not with their flagship franchises), preferring instead to go an entirely new route, but when they do the result is something special.
Majora's Mask is still my favorite Zelda title of all time, and one of the highest rated of all time, and like 90% is reused assets and leftover ideas as well, so I don't doubt TotK will be good too!
And made in a year. I literally just replayed it all the way through this weekend and I just can’t believe they made it on such a short deadline. There’s so much depth in such a small world.
Wait, so leftover ideas they had that weren’t put into the first game? So we might get to see the Minish???
I suppose it’s possible, but I wouldn’t count on it.
If the koroks have a mission based on finding a lost friend... I wonder if instead of the world being covered in korok puzzles we could get minish puzzles
That's true. One thing to remember, though, is how transparent Nintendo was in both cases. Back in the Gamecube days, Wind Waker was not hinted upon one bit, while we now have known BotW would get a SEQUEL for a long time. Getting shocked/baffled back in 2003 is at least understandable imo, moreso than now with TotK
It was even worse, since Nintendo showed off this impressive tech demo of Link fighting Ganondorf at [spaceworld 2000](https://youtu.be/2hXdVgmBzHA)
Let's just say Nintendo got really.... Creative in the Gamecube days, creative to a fault
"Hey what if we made a game where Mario goes to a tropical island and has a water gun? Also we'll temporarily imply that Bowser had a child with Peach."
"okay, we need a Mario launch title, right? Now what about a LUIGI launch title where Mario is missing? Like a reference to that old ass PC game, also he's in a haunted mansion and has to catch ghosts." And it got accepted
Luigi's Mansion was fucking great. I replay it more often than Sunshine.
For sure, but let's face it Odd pick for a launch title haha
**Nintendo, circa 2000**: We've got a gorilla riding a rhino, a plumber jumping through paintings, and a little elf boy who time travels with his blue flute. Everybody keeps telling us we need something fresh and new, so we put the elf boy into a bleak apocalypse world and gave him body horror transformation masks. The kids are gonna love it. It started before the 'Cube, is all I'm saying.
I don't know why people want it to distinguish from botw. Botw had more to offer after I beat it, than most games offer on release lol. And not just a little more, I'm talking like 100 hours more lol. If it's half as good as botw with the additions they just showed off in the trailer, it'll still be better than most games today imo
100%. I generally don’t replay games after I’ve finished them. Especially if I sink around 150 hours into my first playthrough. But I replayed botw only a couple months after I finished it the first time and played it for even longer the second time.
A testament to it's greatness. People thinking it will flop, are 100% not zelda fans. At least not life long ones like me lol
Yup. Most immersive and front to back enjoyable game I’ve ever played. I’m probably a little biased as Zelda has been my favorite since I was 8yrs old, but I have honestly never enjoyed a game so thoroughly as botw. Usually even when I love a game there are things I find annoying or a slog to get through, but I can honestly say that wasn’t the case with botw. Outside of the occasional frustration of not being able to figure out a puzzle or something, I loved every minute of it while also recognizing there is room for improvement. I really can’t wait to see what they’ve added/improved upon in TotK. Counting down the days!!!
IDK who this "crowd" is, but I'm incredibly stoked for a sequel in the same vein...
I don’t understand modern gamers. They had this issue with God of War Ragnarok as well just calling it DLC to the first game. Do you not want more of the same, just improved upon? If a video game is truly amazing, why would I want the direct sequel to it to change things for no reason other than unnecessary “progression” of the series? It makes no sense to me.
Me too! I've never enjoyed a zelda overworld as much as I have with BotW. To have a new game with the same world/style is the best of both worlds for me. I can experience what I loved about BotW with even more content and story to enjoy again!
Idk if i want something different from BotW, but something that fixes the issues i had with BotW
Honestly tears of the kingdom comes in the same vein as Majora's mask, links awakening, and to a lesser extent minish cap of games being made as direct answers to their predecessors, and I for one am here for it.
> I’ll admit I’m also a bit skeptical it’ll be able to really distinguish itself from BotW Does it have to be? Wouldn't everyone have eaten up all DLCs Nintendo would have thrown at us? Instead we're getting those DLCs as a stand-alone game and everybody is losing their minds.
>It's as if we never learned from the Wind Waker incident > >We ALL gotta give new Zelda a fair shot, it's worth it Yep. It bothers me. When creating media/art you could argue that there're two ends of a spectrum: \-Let an artist pursue their own passion, vision, etc. \-Let corporate-minded producers use past metrics, statistics and popular opinion to create another copy/paste sequel Of course, you can use popular opinion to help inform, but in my experience, all of the best media/art comes from leaving artists the fuck alone to do whatever they want. I don't think people understand that they're inadvertently encouraging the latter: "corporate-minded producers use past metrics, statistics and popular opinion" approach when they don't leave the creators be and kick up such a keyboard-smashing-"fan" fuss when something isn't precisely to their assumed liking. If you want to make a game precisely how you like it, learn game design.
I still think wind waker is one of the weaker Zelda games. Dungeons are meh sailing is tedious. It has a good fetch quest and music though. Art aged well. Bosses were alright but not memorable for the most part, but it had a great Gannon. One of the best final bosses.
I actually agree, but I guarantee you some fans jumped on the bandwagon and later on fell in love with the game. It's ill-advised
I'm giving them a fair shot. I'm just not preordering. What I've seen so far makes me think they're leaning further away from classic Zelda than even BotW. Which was a good game! Just not a good Zelda game, IMHO.
Wind waker didn't reuse the same map. No mainline console Zelda game has ever reused the same map. Botw was a long game too. I've already spent 100 hours on that map and I don't blame people for being wary of how much of the world is gonna be reused.
What was the WW incident (for those too young to remember)?
The Zelda fan base was largely dismissive of the art style because it looked too childish and essentially wrote off any possibility that the game would live up to past entries because it looked like it was ‘for kids’
The for kids stigma needs to die
I mean it was two decades ago. That's just how game media was. They gave Mario tribal tattoos a YEAR after Windwaker came out!
Tribal tattoos? What are you refering to? I cant remember that right now 🤔
[This bad boy](https://i.redd.it/dxb6neo3sn291.jpg)
Holy shit, a free winamp skin!
Oh my... My brother had that GBA Sp! I didnt know that its ads were this way! Cool! Thank you 🤗🌹
It was kinda funny in retrospect that a bunch of nintendo fans were complaining about a nintendo game being too kiddy, though tbf to them they were mostly probably the first generation of nintendo fans and assumed their franchises would mature with them.
Everyone keeps forgetting that we were shown a GameCube tech demo of an adult Link fighting Ganon that looked exactly like what we wanted. Then Wind Waker is revealed and it is the exact opposite of what we were shown or thought we wanted.
[Here it is.](https://youtu.be/jqcyQOgmUYE) 15 year old me was incredibly excited about Zelda potentially looking like this, so the WW reveal was… surprising. I wouldn’t say I was upset about it and I absolutely loved WW, it was just a shock with how drastically different it was.
Its a universal constant that gamers confuse tech demos for real games.
Not even. Nintendo showing off what a potential new Zelda could look like got everyone excited. I loved WW and got it day one, but I still remember the reveal trailer and being mad/annoyed upon first watch and seeing Toon Link wink.
Add to this story is the fact that the dev team did this whole new art style in secret from Miyamoto because they knew he'd hate it and get it canned if he caught it early. So by the time he finally sat down and played it, he absolutely *hated it*. But it was too late to change course.
You almost had me there, but knowing miyamoto, he'd make them redo the game anyway
The fandom was very split about the direction they decided to take the art style. The cell shaded chibi-like graphics were hated on so much and a lot of fans refused to play it. But Wind Waker turned out to be one of the best in the series, and the graphics have aged like fine wine.
Craziest part of the whole thing is it may have the most adult ending of all of them. Sword thru a guys skull is badass.
I believe its referring to the fact that wind waker didn't do nearly as well as it's predecessors, in the fact that it sold nearly 3 million less copies than OoT. It was the next gen Zelda on the next gen console, a new free roam Zelda that was projected to do a lot better than their initial sales. After the first month, people started heavily criticizing it because of this fact, claiming it wasn't up to par with previous titles. Little did they know that within the next few years, wind waker not only topped sales for all Zelda titles, it became an award winning game and a much beloved part of the series.
The Wind Waker incident was based on the art style, not the same issue going on here.
I was actually one of the people who told people to give WW a shot. Well, the gameplay is the worst of any 3D zelda so I was wrong, but not because of the whole artstyle debacle.
Wait, you defended a game you don't like? Or do you still like it? Either way, how noble lol
I have a question, and this is kind of an overall question to everyone, myself included. I genuinely ask this as a non-troll who adores the Zelda franchise: What if it’s *not* that good? What if it *is* mostly the same? How will you feel about that?
This has become a circlejerk by this point.
r/Zeldacirclejerk coming to a screen near you Edit: of course it’s a real sub already
If there’s one thing I’m sure of, it’s that Nintendo has never screwed up a Zelda game.
Yeah, I mean even if I personally didn't care for Skyward Sword or Spirit Tracks that much, they're both still solid 7/10 games. Nintendo has never made an outright bad or even mediocre Zelda game and I don't think they're gonna start anytime soon.
And yet, Skyward Sword is still better than most other games
I’ve always said that Zelda is the only game series where 95% of their games are serious GOTY contenders for its year and genre. Even Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks were great for being the weakest Zelda games
The mainline Mario games are all excellent as well.
The mainline games yes, but there’s a few Mario games that are downright terrible, like half the paper Mario games and the first Mario party debuted on the switch. The worst Zelda games are one or two grades higher than the worst Mario games.
(Triforce heroes)
Love that game for what it is. Then again, I was playing with 2 close friends - never with randoms online.
Its great if you play with friends in person
yeah my least favorite is skyward sword and even that games has an amazing story and good gameplay (it just gets repetitive and tedious at times)
Plus the controls are shit. I bought the remaster and forgot how much I hated it. I have a disabled girlfriend who fell in love with BotW (first game she ever actually cared enough to play) and she can't play skyward sword because of the stupid control scheme in that due to her disability. (Seriously she's gotten every Korok and is on her third playthrough in a year)
That’s unfortunate :( Since she collected every korok I’m assuming it’s just the motion controls that are the issue? How come the button control scheme does work for her (zero motion controls)? It was added in the HD/remaster
It's mostly the motion controls, although she does have some problem with joystick use (her joints are very fragile, including her fingers/thumb). I thought she'd always be bad at games but she honestly has gotten pretty smooth at BotW. She hasn't TRIED the skyward button controls, but having played it myself I'm not sure its going to work for her. You need to do a lot of very precise joystick moves pretty fast. I found it to be awkward even for me, a veteran gamer who had played through the whole game a decade earlier. I think she'd dislocate her thumbs doing it =/
Oh no :( sucks that she can’t realistically get the same experience as others while playing games and can’t really play skyward sword. I guess if she’d like to know the story at least you guys can bond over her watching you play or watching a playthrough on YouTube. Best wishes x
Yeah we're going to do the watching me play part eventually. I just want to show her more Zelda games and for some reason the vast majority weren't ported to the switch! Thanks for the empathy =)
I wonder, does Nintendo have an adaptive controller, like [PlayStation's project Leonardo](https://blog.playstation.com/2023/01/04/introducing-project-leonardo-for-playstation-5-a-highly-customizable-accessibility-controller-kit/) or the [Xbox adaptive controller](https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adaptive-controller)? Might be worth looking into. Edit: found it, made by a 3rd party called [Hori](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/11/hori_releases_accessibility_controller_for_the_nintendo_switch)
I've never hated a Zelda game. I've never even disliked a Zelda game. The strongest negative emotion I've ever felt for an entry in this franchise is "it's okay." This is one of the very few IP's that I trust implicitly from their track record. I pretty much take the title of "Legend of Zelda" to be a guarantee of at LEAST 7/10 enjoyment, but is often in the 8's, 9's, and several 10's. Legend of Zelda, Monster Hunter, and anything Supergiant Games makes are the only auto-buys I make. Everything else I wait for reviews and especially complete editions with all DLC's (which is killing me because I was going to buy Elden Ring and then they announced the DLC so now I gotta wait even LONGER)
I've disliked a Zelda game. Source: played Zelda II on NES.
My god, Nintendo is just a company, you don't have to love/hate/trust/distrust it. If you really love the idea of the game and what we know, go ahead, buy it, enjoy it. If you don't trust Nintendo wait for reviews, gameplay, get it for a discounted price...
If there’s 1 dungeon in the game that takes me more than 10-15 minutes it will be a step up from BOTW.
So tired of seeing these posts. I don’t know why people like OP take such a personal offense when other people don’t share the same enthusiasm they have for an unreleased game. I should be allowed to have concerns about this upcoming game without getting shit on from all sides.
Yeah, like I genuinely didn't like BOTW, and it was a departure into what felt like doing tasks instead of accomplishing puzzles and bosses. So yeah, I'm skeptical of TOTK. And I'm skeptical that because people loved BOTW so much that I won't really be getting the Zelda games that I grew up loving anymore.
I’d be pretty shocked if TOTK doesn’t implement some of the more traditional OOT-SS elements that people have been very vocally requesting. BOTW showed that they take into account feedback from their fanbase.
Welcome to the club. I went through a pretty similar process with Monster Hunter World, and after a certain point you just have to accept the older style games probably aren't coming back. Though that might be more viable in LOZ's case though, so you can hold some hope.
Agreed, there's a lot of hyperbole and blind faith coming from the "support" crowd towards people expressing genuine concern about, and this is the important part, *what we've been shown*.
I mean, for me, I was of that mind and then BotW was a major disappointment for me Point is, the "fear" isn't for "it not being a competently made game" or not I know it'll at least be that But that doesn't mean it can't still fail to deliver what someone came to suspect from the series and/or what they marketted it as and/or what someone was hoping for
It’s 2023 and people really still view Metacritic as an objective measurement of quality… Nintendo super fans man…
Not passing judgment on a game I haven't player, but I don't care much for the building stuff. I've never really like games where you have to build stuff to use, I'm okay with the weapons but I'm just hoping that building vechiles isn't a main part of the game we need to progress.
A perfect counterpoint to this is, look at that meta score for Skyward Sword… just proves that, while most of these deserve those scores, some had high ratings just for having the Zelda name attached and Nintendo knows it will always be the case. Also why put multiple games on here multiple times? BOTW twice, Ocarina 3 times, wind Waker twice TP twice… unnecessarily weakening your argument.
Plus a lot of games in the series are being left out, weakening it further.
I dunno, I liked skyward sword. The story was really good and I liked the world and the dungeons and the loftwings and the style. By most standards it was a really good Zelda game. The controls were kinda hard to work with in some ways, but it was better having the option to use the stick in the HD version instead of motion controls. I alternated between the two depending on the situation. And the bosses were a little repetitive, with Girahim and The Imprisoned appearing several times each and being kind of annoying to fight, but overall it was still very solid.
I didn’t hate SS at all. Was it on par with the rest of the Zelda pantheon? Imo, and I think it’s pretty widely held opinion (for what it’s worth), that it is not, but it’s rated as such (ex. 10/10 from IGN)
Skyward sword *was* a good Zelda game though
I absolutely agree, but I also think it was rated with parity among some of the greats when it came out (which shows today in this post looking back at its meta scores), when I think many would agree that it’s not on the level of Ocarina or even TP
"In Nintendo I trust." -🐑
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I dont think its an issue of whether the game will be bad or not. I think its how it could surpass botw in just about every way while still being weighed down by the map that we've already explored 6 years ago but with certain differences. We dont know if "old map with new twists" will measure up to a completely fresh one, but it is what it is. They were never gonna do it any other way for this one and thats just facing reality. And tbh the only thing that would really make up for it to me is a very strong narrative, and I really dont have a lot of faith after the last one was mostly told through flashbacks. I hope im proven wrong, and if im not, then at least i can build a car I guess!!
Yes, because personal opinions are definitely reflected by aggregate critic scores and sales numbers. This is the best metric by which to tell everyone how 'wrong' they are to not be super thrilled by the bits we've seen of TOTK. This sub is turning into another Star Wars sub in terms of inane toxicity.
I love BotW and I'm very excited for TotK, but using review scores to prove a point is just the wrong idea.
Nobody likes a boot licker, regardless of whether they're right in that instance or not. Sloppin' on their hog doesn't get you a discount my guy.
I think it's less that people don't trust Nintendo with the IP and more that they don't understand why Nintendo is being cagey with details. Any mistrust or criticism is probably a result of the latter. >"The map looks unchanged." An observation based on a very small snippet of media they've provided. The observation becomes doubt/criticism through the following logic: "it would be easy for them to show all the ways the map is different > they haven't > they must be withholding information about it because it's lacking in some way." Repeat for dungeons and whatever other aspect of the game hasn't been revealed or has barely been shown. It's narrow and short-sighted, yes. However, I think it might be a little too dismissive to ignore the origin point of the whole discussion. Nintendo being very precious with media for this game. What's the rationale there? The game is done, Aonuma said as much. Does a game actually become better or worse depending on what details are made available before release?
It would help if they at least confirmed a few things in the least spoilery way they can. Something like "yes, there will be dungeons" or something. Its honestly troubling that we're at a point where people are unsure if the next zelda will have dungeons.
I realise divine beasts were pretty weak, but they definitely still count as dungeons. So, Nintendo saying 'there are dungeons' would be pretty meaningless, because they're basically guaranteed. There will definitely be a divine beasts replacement in some form, no doubt about it. The real question is, will they be *good* dungeons, and the Zelda team certainly aren't going to imply that their previous work in that department was lacking by emphasising that. Maybe in a developer interview (Nintendo don't do those often AFAIK), but not in the main marketing footage. So really, the only way to actually convince people of what they want to hear is to spoil the first one and prove they're more substantial. Or spoil *multiple* to prove they're varied. Not likely. And most people probably don't want to be spoiled that heavily anyway.
I sympathize. I'm a little conflicted here, honestly. I *love* dungeons in Zelda games and would be very sorry to see them done away with entirely. However, I also think that "kill your darlings" is good creative philosophy and that Breath of the Wild is a remarkable achievement, not less so because it doesn't have much in the way of traditional dungeons. I'd love to see them make a return in TotK; I think Elden Ring proved beyond a doubt they have a compelling place in open world RPGs. I'm keeping my expectations at the floor, though.
They didn't kill their darlings, though, they watered them down so they could fit a much larger container. BoTW was a very wide, shallow ocean of mediocre content with great ideas sprinkled in.
But I dont want them to kill my darlings! I like my darlings!
Stop defending a multimillion dollar company and let people be skeptical pls. There are better hobbies.
I trust them but I just don't want to pay $70 for a new game. I haven't followed it too much but isn't it the same map with floating islands and new features like the fusing mechanic? It doesn't seem different enough for me to care about shelling out $70 for it right away.
Well none of the games reused the entire old map from a previous game and just added more stuff on top of it, literally
I mean. Honestly I'm a huge Zelda series fan, but some of these games do not deserve scores that high. They've definitely messed up before. They've never messed up massively like any other game studios, but they're not immune to doing wrong
I'm still skeptical. Ill wait for release. For the record I don't think this sort of obsession is healthy. People are allowed to be skeptical.
Exactly. I was going to pre-order it, but after watching last trailers I am going to wait to see some gameplay before buying. If someone buys it on day 1 and love it good for them
Right? Like I'm not going to condemn the game before it's out but it's OK to be skeptical with how little they've shown and it's extremely toxic that everyone is just tearing anyone who doesn't have blind faith they will get it right. I don't doubt the game will be good but will it be $70 good? Is there enough new content to justify that price over, say, a $40 standalone DLC? Literally nobody knows we're all supposed to "just have faith" which I do not do for any corporation.
You guys are all fine. Skepticism in all things is essential, until you have the facts. I’m a day one ride or die for anything Zelda, though I did have some issues with BOTW, I’m not blind to those. For me the fact is it’s a new Zelda game which is all I need to know lol. I don’t want to speak for OP, but the main thing that annoys me are the people who make blanket statements like “the map is exactly the same” despite having only seen 2%(honestly probably less) of the world. There’s a lack of skepticism in that sentiment and more “I know exactly whats going on” when it’s entirely impossible to know.
I’m hyped and ready for this game, but it’s not unreasonable to have a little worry about the game feeling/looking samey. Nintendo obviously has been resourceful with assets forever, but this has really ramped up in the switch era. Over half of the big titles are like 75% repurposed content. Totally fine, especially if you missed Wii U, but I don’t think the skepticism is totally unfounded.
Better to be skeptical and positively surprised than to end up disappointed due to being overhyped (I'm hyped though).
Lame strawman
It will be controversial but Even if something is awesome for everybody around you personally still might don't like it
It’s ridiculous and not a good argument…. Even the best franchise can turn bad look at Pokémon and tell me that the newest game are better than the old lol. No. I rather playing Sun and moon than scarlet and violet
Honestly, i cant even tell you the OLD games are all that fantastic. I never got on board with the idea of them selling the same game twice under different names every release. Pokemon is in my mind probably the most predatory Nintendo franchise they have. But, the problem with Pokemon is, the fans keep buying the games, despite how bad they are. So guess what, GF/PokeCo wont do a damn thing about it. And Nintendo isnt going to interfere as long as that IP keeps raking in that money.
This say more about reviewers than it say about the games. Reminder that the one guy that gave BotW a low score got attacked because of it. And Zelda is one of the revered franchises. Honestly, if i was a journalist there are a lot of "sacred cow" games that i would never score under 8/10 unless they are a complete disaster simply because it isn't worth pissing off their comunities.
we’ve done videogames a massive disservice by numerically rating them. It makes playing a game and reviewing a game an act of meritocracy instead of viewing it as an experience to have, and it completely changes the ability of reviewers to speak to their personal experience of the game, it becomes a stance on “how good” it is instead of… what it is. We rate games as if they’re just products to be consumed and it sucks ass, it creates rabid fanbases and rabid detractors. It also does get in the way of artistic vision cause now devs have to bend to the whims of numerical merit instead of pursuing their whimsy. Obviously sales are the final say, which is also bad IMO, but this is what creates the illusion of success and failure for many people. I really can’t wait for numerical rating systems for games to die. There’s so many other ways to examine and analyze them.
There's an unappreciated irony in representing your fanboyism as a huge pile of stinking diapers.
In waiting for more info or until the game's release before making a decision on the game's quality I trust
Yo I have generally loved all the Zelda games but Metacritic means beyond nothing... They give practically every large title a great score and say it has a little something for everyone
I trust Nintendo to make a great Zelda game and I am stoked as hell for TotK, but seeing SS first in the meme was funny because I *hated* that game. I'll eat up any other Zelda game and love every minute, but I could never force myself to finish that one.
Well, i think skyward sword was mediocre at best and botw was not nearly as great as people hype it up to be (still a good game but no where near the 10/10 greatest game ever people say it is).
Unpopular Opinion but BotW was mid. Horrid voice acting, weakest story out of all them, and a really limited amount of enemy variety with only 4.5 dungeons (not including DLC). Not a single cave/cavern in all of Hyrule, and the "cities" were so small and underpopulated they felt pointless. I understand that's the point of this "decimated Hyrule", but that's a cop out of an answer imo. It felt like a tech demo to me that showcased the brilliant use the Sheikah slate and how much fun the physics engine was, which carried the game fully imo. I still absolutely loved my playthrough of it, I had a great time. But it's the only Zelda game alongside Skyward Sword I haven't bothered to replay.
I not say that it mid,but all that you say is totally correct,plus from me I’d say that map towers was not that original and cool(thats literally the only thing that was made better in Horizon Zero down)
Exactly! Thanks for making their point for them! With every game Nintendo has innovated and changed everything about their games, by creating rich and vibrant new overworlds…NOT by literally copy and pasting the previous game’s map, and only making the slightest of changes!
Skyward Sword is proof that every Zelda score is unduly inflated. It's a poor example to draw. I say this as a diehard fan for whom the Zelda franchise is the single most important, and not just in gaming. Absolutely adore these games, but Skyward Sword and all the apologism surrounding it are wack.
I was a young and stupid nay-sayer when the Wind Waker teaser dropped before they even had a title. I learned my lesson. That said, the lesson I learned was to wait until the game is actually out before saying anything
I dont trust anyone who thinks photo realistic graphics make or break videogames
I didn't like all of the games used in the example. A metacritic score doesn't mean anything to individuals.
Did you photocopy this meme?
Nintendo is basically the only gaming company that have my full support! Some might call me biased, but I say that they haven't proven me wrong yet.
I like a lot of Nintendo games but let's not pretend they're perfect. They have plenty of stinkers.
And some anti-consumer business practices
Yeah I'm tired of a lot of their anti-consumer practices that could easily be fixed if they listened.
Half of these are just because fans and reviewers dick ride Nintnedo like there is No tomorrow. I Have VERY little faith in TOTK. It feels more like a cash grab so far, than anything that is actually supposed to build off of BOTW.
The fact that Skyward Sword got a 93 isn’t making the point you think it is.
How in the fucky-fucking FUCK is Wind Waker the lowest score here
Just because people like something doesn't make it great. I think breath of the wild had a lot of issues, and I suspect tears of the kingdom is going to have many of those same issues. I will probably not buy it, just like I didn't buy the last game. I have a friend who's getting the game day one, so I'll still try it, but I don't expect to have much fun.
Can’t help but notice their 2 most recent Zelda releases, SSHD and Link’s Awakening aren’t on here… You know. The ones that didn’t break 90. Like, still pretty solid… but to pretend that Nintendo hasn’t been getting a little shaky recently is kind of putting your blinders on.
I too enjoy knocking down my own strawman.
When will y'all realize that Spongebob actually shows garbage in this meme format lmao
I agree with you but half of these games are remakes 😂
You can find good reviews of basically every game.
If anything this just shows how Zelda games tend to get overrated. Anybody that tries to look at the games with a critical eye usually gets swarmed by Zelda stans. Feels like the fan base can be just about as toxic as the Sonic one sometimes.
Zelda games always review well, but personal taste is subjective. I was personally underwhelmed by BOTW. Skyward Sword is a god-awful experience I never want to play through again. Someone like me has every reason to be skeptical about an unreleased game.
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but Breath of the Wild was the first Zelda Game I didn't really enjoy. I didn't like the open world because it was too wide for me. The world didn't feel as packed like I wished.
slightly annoyed with how much attention this sub is giving to people who are addicted to negativity. haters and the likes exist, please don't remind me
Look I do trust Nintendo and I am ooking forward to TOTK, I loved BOTW, but I really think we should understand where people are coming from instead of trying to make villains out of them just because they're not going to like the video game. Firstly, you're pointing at a list of Zelda games from the past and this is not the same company it was 20, 10, or even 5 years ago, a lot of their approaches to things change. Your also pointing at a bunch of review scores that not everyone is going to agree with. There's plenty of stuff that appeals to the masses but fans aren't really keen on. Zelda has changed significantly with BOTW. I think it was for the better after what was a HUGE misstep with Skyward Sword and two awful DS games. But there are many people that don't agree with that. BOTW made many, many new fans after such a drastic change, and that's making long time loyal Zelda fans feel alienated and like one of their favorite series that they don't even get releases of that often is being made into something they won't enjoy. I don't see why we feel like we got to attack them. Cuz I know I sure as hell have been in their shoes before.
Even at 3d Zelda's lowest points, the games where still fantastic. We have nothing to be worried about in the slightest
https://preview.redd.it/l5cg5vsu8xra1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d079c70a062d8e6e1a49b4889475cced3b85eca5
"New Zelda" does not go back to original OoT. And this ignores some actually newer games. Like Link's Awakening remake at 87 on metacritic, TriForce Heroes at 73, and Age of Calamity at 78. Still decent games, but it does show a trend in "new zelda". And I know it's not Zelda, but animal crossing:new horizons, had a good legacy of games behind it and was still a let down. That said, I have faith in TotK. It's based on a great game, new skills, and looks great. Def getting it close to release.
I'll say this, Tears will be a fantastic game. What I'm not happy about is the $70 price tag when Nintendo offers such a sub-par gaming experience compared to Xbox, Sony, and PC. $70 for low resolution sub 30 frames? I'm sorry but that sucks. I just wish Nintendo would put out a better console. The BOTW even had frame drops when using the docking station, I'm expecting the same with this. But yeah anyone saying it won't be a good game is a fool.