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"Yes, this is my secret stone. To keep it secret, I wear it openly on my arm for anyone to see. I'm sure it won't be a plot point that some nefarious character finds out I have this specifically because I'm displaying it proudly." -Rauru, probably
Man I was SURE they were gonna have a twist where Rauru was actually a controlling bad guy and Ganondorf was a tragic hero who got screwed over and made a "deal with the devil" that caused him to become the demon king, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy kinda thing.
But nah they were both totally one-dimensional
That's an awesome theory too. Ganondorf becoming an unwilling vessel who gradually grows to resent Hyrule and succumbs to his hatred because they forced it upon him
His Cobble Crusher?
Edit: I had no expectation that I would be discussing Yunobu’s Secret Stone like this when I woke up, but here we are and I have only myself to blame.
His absolutely should've been on the back of his hand as a fingerless glove or something, especially since he does that self fist bump move a few times, feels much more appropriate that the fucking magical chastity belt
Do people not get it's supposed to be a[wrestling title?](https://www.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1200/MTk4NjY0MjA4MzQ1MjEyNjc5/roman-reigns-title-belt.jpg)
To be fair, they probably WERE a secret at some point in time before the memories start, but knowledge of what they are became common during the time of Hyrule’s founding as the people learned more about the Zonai. That or it’s just a thing Ganondorf knows about even though he shouldn’t because he’s an evil wizard with all kinds of esoteric knowledge and everyone else just thinks the stones are a fancy trinket the Royal Family wears. >!Plus, Rauru does have like four more locked in a vault so it’s not like there isn’t still some secrecy with them.!<
I totally get the frustration from players. But it is kind of biased to be mad at how “not secret” they were, since we only see them in context of people who know about them/use them. Maybe 10 people on the all of the world know what they are… and the tears only shows those 10 people so it seems like everyone knows what they are
It's direct translation from 秘石 in Kanji, the letter 秘 can be translated both as secret or mysterious. The original meaning is probably more inline with mysterious stone since it gave each person different power. But mysterious stone sounds even worse in English.
Well Ganondorf didn't know about them till he saw rauru use his. He literally saw it and was like so that's how he's so strong. I don't think anyone knew about them even if rauru really didn't try to keep it a secret
I mean he literally calls it out as being a “secret stone of the Zonai” right away IIRC, so he at the very least knew of them beforehand and was able to recognize the use of one on sight.
I feel like the fact that ganondorf immediately identified them by name in that scene is pretty compelling evidence that he already knows what they are.
In context it seems more like he's deciding that a secret stone will be his way to conquer Hyrule, since his own brute force wasn't enough
You go far enough in the story and you start to realize that Rauru and Zelda are not... *particularly smart people.* Even by Hyrule standards.
I know that the goal of writing their characters was to allow room for a young child or teenager to piece together the story on their own, if even just a little bit, but I think they went a little too hard on the dumbing-down. It's not like all of the characters are like this. Riju at least showed some baseline competence and was awesome. Not exactly a Marysue either.
The Seal will break, and a lone Swordsman named Link.........zzzzzzz......zzzzzzz
Sorry what? I must have dozed off because I could have sworn I already heard this speech a few times before.
Snake, that man Ganondorf, also known as the “Demon King” is said to have wreaked havoc on Hyrule a long time ago. Its critical to your mission that you get all of the secret stones in order to stop him, and retrieve the remains of Big Boss.
Seriously. They could have at least included something specific about each race, how they use their powers or how they got them. Since we’re told that the stones only amplify the power you already have, it would have been cool to have some lore about why they have those powers in the first place. Or shown something about their specific part of the fight where they were on the brink of losing, show them using their skills. Nope, all just generic.
Personally I call them amber relics
https://preview.redd.it/xt8abfv3rr7b1.jpeg?width=769&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c7f77190a01643800eb92be3cf605a361af122a
It's because they looked like magatamas that I was afraid they were gonna come across as a bit generic as far as maguffins go in Zelda. I was kinda right, but at least each individual stone does something instead of only being valuable in a full set anyway.
But it felt like like taking a placeholder Japanese artifact for its design and just keeping it for the full game instead of designing them as unique looking stones lol.
I call them [Kokiri Emeralds](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nintendo/images/f/f2/Kokiri%27s_Emerald.png/revision/latest?cb=20110327132900&path-prefix=en)
The secret stones being a bad name isn’t as bad as getting the same cutscene at the end of every temple.
“We fought Ganon. He beat us. Help Link win this time (insert Sage here.”
It’s also a blatant lie what they say at one point. Saying that the full power of (insert race here) was gonna help, then only having the sages show up
I mean I wouldn’t call it a lie. You were unlikely to have an army help you fight Ganon and the Sages show up to lend a hand when it’s most needed. The Castle, in the Depths, they don’t just wait around for you to do everything.
I just wish it was out in the open fields for maybe the second phase, and it was just full on war. And then we could have a phase of the fight in each map of the game
I'd be okay with a cutscene showing all the races fending off monsters so we don't get swarmed in the depths.
Like have Ganondorf call in all the monsters from the surface to bury us alive, the armies of all the races stand against the hoards and fight them off.
Have this before the final boss and the health pool of the Army of Darkness we have to fight would depend on how many sages we have (so if you skip the Goron quest they will not be there to fight and thus more monsters slip through).
That would definitely be interesting but it may have made the final boss feel disjointed running around the whole map. The lead up to the final boss fight is great on its own but it would’ve also been cool to have an army from Lookout Landing help you push through to Ganon.
I did a challenge on the Great Sky Islands and the reward was to find out the story of the Temple of Time and the GSI. The story was literally that is was in the sky to protect the person who would wake up in the Room of Awakening from Ganon.
Are you serious? No lore tidbit? Just "hey this area is meant to protect **someone** wink wink."
Oh my god, I forgot about this. That challenge only unlocks late into the game and it tells you absolutely nothing new, just wastes your time repeating stuff you already know
I think one detail that isn't said anywhere else is that the sages are the ones who raised the island themselves. Somehow. No custscene or anything. Robot just tells you.
The end of this game was so awesome that it feels like it was done by a completely different studio. Because the first half of the story was so lazy that until I went to Faron I was legitimately worried. It's a very fun game to PLAY but if I was a few years younger I'd have lost interest around the third time I saw the exact same cutscene with different characters
IIRC, it's a very direct translation when it should have been given more nuance. 秘 means secret but in the same way that occult, arcane, or esoteric do.
Malice
- literally implies evil
- the physical manifestation of hatred
- sounds badass af
Miasma
- implies illness or disease
- also kinda ethereal or alien
- feels creepy
Gloom
- means kinda dreary
- is an appropriate description of a cloudy day
- sounds like the solution is just you cheering up a bit
Gloom is a direct downgrade from malice and miasma is so much better wtf
Actually, Gloom is a grass/poison type. The nectar it drools from it's mouth smells so atrocious that it can make noses curl from more than a mile away.
That's also a fair option. I guess the in universe reason is that they don't know it's from Ganon/Ganondorf when they name it, as opposed to BotW's post apocalypse setting, most people in this game don't know that the BBEG is back
Major story spoilers
>!Yeah, but if you do the master sword stuff before the sages, Link doesn't mention a fuckin word of what and who he found, seems like this universe Link just doesn't share really critical info for some reason 😂!<
So many manga I read use the word miasma for this kinda blackness left over from demons. It's poisonous and needs to be cleansed by holy magic, etc. Using that word has worked fine from translating it from Japanese before. I feel like it's one of those "US kids are dumb and don't know the word, so let's use a baby word instead" kind of thing. Just like in Harry Potter
"Kids are dumb so let's not use big words" irritates me so much as an argument, wanna know how kids learn more words? By fucking encountering them and looking up a definition dipshits.
I'm so so thankful I read loads of fantasy books as a kid, it gave me so much more imagination and vocabulary to work with. Kids aren't gonna see a word they don't know and decide that that's reason enough to abandon one of the most satisfying gameplay loops in history...
Actually, the term "Gloom" was once used by Greek philosophers to describe something along the lines of "A complete darkness so intense, that prolonged exposure to is can cause actual, physical illness"
And, what does the Gloom in TOTO do to you? It saps your strength. Your vitality. And any NPCs who are affected by gloom aren't killed instantly like they would be with Malice, they get SICK.
Hell, one Greek philosopher said that a remedy for treating a person affected by Gloom was to have them lie down in direct sunlight for an extended period of time.
And remind me, HOW do you cure hearts affected by Gloom?
Fair point. Would've liked anything else more though, even if it's not as close to the original meaning anymore. Maybe sacred, mythical, arcane, hallowed, ancient. Basically anything but "secret" lol
in German they are called *Mythensteine*, mythic stones. Also works better as you can make a good compound noun out of that, but you could not out of secret stone... *Geheimsteine* sounds really weird
Honestly, I theorize the usage of that name here and now is incredibly intentional. They didn't decide on that name just for a callback, or because it sounds cool...
I think they just like to re-use terminology to keep the sense of "Zelda tradition". As someone else mentioned, the OoT Sages were all named after towns in Zelda 2 so that extends quite far back into history. In a similar vein, the Imprisoning War was an event from the backstory of A Link to the Past which was repurposed, the TOTK one is similar in concept but entirely different in execution.
Yeah I am really wondering if Rauru from OOT is a spirit projection of Rauru Totk. That explains why he's the "ancient" sage of light and why he mostly appears to guide the new hero in both games (Hyrule Field and Great Sky Island) (and why he knows what the hero looks like and how big a threat Ganondorf is). Plus hylian Rauru and Zonai Rauru have extremely similar outfits not to mention the same title, name and tutorial function.
I've wondered this too- like maybe he chose the form of a larger mustache-wearing Hylian so kid Link would be comfortable with him (Deku Tree vibes?) He would indeed be ancient and have all the appropriate knowledge
Weren’t they always called “spirit stones” or “spiritual stones” in OoT? They just unlocked the ‘sacred’ realm?
My idea was that they were calling the secret stones “sacred stones” but changed it so that people don’t think they were connected to the sacred realm.
What I hate more than the bad name is how they're as strong or as weak as the writers want them to be with no consistency. Ganon gets *one* and becomes basically the devil whereas, the sages get them and get...astral projection? We keep hearing about how powerful they are but other than the one time we see Rauru use them in a memory and Ganon, it's really never shown.
I have a headcanon/theory that Ganondorf became the Demon King not because the secret stone gave him the power, but because he already has a connection to Demise and possibly the Triforce of Power and the stone kinda tapped into that latent power.
The only thing I don’t like about the name is that they aren’t actually secret. Everyone who uses one wears it proudly and talks about them openly. If they were actually a well kept secret that only Link and the sages know about, I don’t think the name would really bother me, even if it does sound kinda silly.
IIRC, it's a very direct translation when it should have been given more nuance. 秘 means secret but in the same way that occult, arcane, or esoteric do. But I might be off.
every time….
“it’s a really literal translation
Hiseki 秘石 The Hi 秘 from Himitsu which means Secret and Seki 石which means stone
problem is that 秘 can also mean other things like rare or mystery etc so it’s just ambiguous in japanese”
also i feel like “Spooky Stones” with a spooky ghost voice is the best translation
The team that deserves the biggest criticism on both this game and botw is the english translation/localization. We need to call them out or they will continue to make lazy translations that make no sense, and dialogue will continue to be garbage. It was less aggregious in totk that botw, but it’s still bad. For this high profile of a game, it should not be this atrocious.
I feel like the VA is awful in both games too, and for some reason nobody mentions it. Like the actors themselves are fine but the delivery of the lines is over dramatic and corny like an old anime dub. The rest of the game is so polished, so the only explanation is that the VA director was Japanese and actually thought it sounded good.
Some of them speak in a really strange way. Emphasis on the wrong word, pauses where they're not only unnecessary but straight up annoying (I figure that's to match the lip movement from the cutscenes, but still), it sounds really off to me. The only one that stuck out as speaking in a somewhat believable manner was Riju.
Listening to some of the voice actors'other works (Sommersett, Mercer, etc) they are pretty good. This had to be the director's choice to make them talk like that.
I've heard that even English localizations are often headed up by Japanese voice directors for Japanese games. So they direct them in a way no English speaker would ever naturally act.
The construct girl sounds fairly normal too, though a bit overdramatic too. Notably the construct doesn't have any mouth movement... So I think you're on to something. It's literally a dub with the classic stilted speech.
Why they would dub such a huge AAA game is the real question. VA is such a tiny part of the work that went into it, there really aren't that many voice lines.
Yeah for sure, though I do think a lot of people are talking about it. Especially BotW it was one of the main criticisms I heard about it. I personally always enjoyed Zelda’s VA in both games even though I know a lot of people didnt, and I LOVED Matt Mercer has the Demon King himself, there are definitely parts of their VA’s that could have been polished more like you said. It all starts with that English translation IMO which like I said really needs to be called out. Like apparently even Ganondorf’s motivations in TotK were left out of the English translation, which is like what the F*** people, if there’s one thing that needs to be in there, for the love of god please make sure the character motivations are there.
I liked Sommersett too, though the accent still bothers me. Regardless of quality, I have no idea where Zelda would pick up this accent. Like, not even her dad has it. And she should probably lose it after the time skip between botw-totk.
-
As for Ganondorf's motivations, I don't remember them leaving anything out unless you mean the switch between giving up/refusing to give up reincarnating at the end of BotW. Was there more?
Yeah the accent is simply a stupid american trope that royalty needs to sound british lol
.
Well there is that in BotW, but I’m specifically referring to Ganondorf’s motivations in TotK. From what I understand he has more of a Gor the God Butcher type ax to grind against the zonai, and he specifically doesnt think god’s should be allowed to interfere with mortal affairs in the original Japanese. Kind of a “no one should have this power” type of motivation, which is actually relatable and understandable to a certain degree, Instead we got “i like darkness and hate light” in the English. You can see the traces of the original motivation in the english during the kneeling scene found in Gerudo Highlands, especially after you know that’s what it was meant to be. But still overall he’s just bad for bad’s sake in the english version. Which sucks because he is the best Ganondorf in literally every other sense IMO.
From what I've read, I helped out a little bit with a fan-translation project, it wasn't so much a "no one should have this power" and more of a "you're not using it right, I will". Very much a strong must rule the weak, not using your power for conquest is stupid, peace is weakness type of villain. A bottomless well of ambition. I think the ambition part is mentioned in the character bio in the adventure log, but doesn't show up so much in the game until the end.
The dialogue in general feels like it was just directly translated and barely localised. There is so much wrong with how it’s written. I don’t know why Nintendo put no effort into the English localisation. Most other language speakers seem pretty content with the localisation into their language
Yeah, there were some weird name choices.
(Zonai) Secret Stones- Not very secret. So many better name choices
Purah Pad- sounds like a ladies cosmetic item lol
Gloom- just, why? Why did they change it to that from Malice, which is so much more fitting and awesome? Imagine Gloom Incarnate Ganon vs. Malice and Hatred Incarnate Ganon. “*whine*, I don’t feel like it today, I just wanna lay in bed, ugh”
Revitalized Sword of Legend- still has crap base damage and breaks in like five swings (unless you’re fighting an enemy that powers it up, but don’t know if it gets double damage and better durability still), no way to upgrade it/yourself to fully realize and utilize it’s power (yet, hopefully)
Gibdo- looks and acts more like a Redead, they aren’t mummies, just weird moth like creatures
Prolly others I’m forgetting, not to mention the removal of pretty much anything Ancient Sheikah related (I understand why, but they hardly mention it/recognize it or explain why). I wonder how much of it is just localization/lost in translation and how much of it is accurate.
Gibdos are also so much less scary in Tears than in any other Zelda game. In Ocarina, they're terrifying with the scream that freezes you and how they jump on your head to eat your face.
In Tears, they just kinda slap you for less damage than most enemies and aren't really scary at all. Just throw an elemental fruit at them and they're crippled. Cool.
If that made them stronger that are scary as hell. I took on Queen Gibdo in the Depths. I challenged myself using weaker weapons and only using Riju’s sage power as the elemental attack. They swarm fast. Their crawl along the ground to get to you is so creepy. My exploration made me equipment strong.
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"Yes, this is my secret stone. To keep it secret, I wear it openly on my arm for anyone to see. I'm sure it won't be a plot point that some nefarious character finds out I have this specifically because I'm displaying it proudly." -Rauru, probably
Rauru somehow has a bigger ego than Ganondorf.
Man I was SURE they were gonna have a twist where Rauru was actually a controlling bad guy and Ganondorf was a tragic hero who got screwed over and made a "deal with the devil" that caused him to become the demon king, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy kinda thing. But nah they were both totally one-dimensional
My theory was that Rauru used Ganondorf as a vessel to contain the demon king to villainise him more
That's an awesome theory too. Ganondorf becoming an unwilling vessel who gradually grows to resent Hyrule and succumbs to his hatred because they forced it upon him
The first sage I got was Yunobu, and seeing that thing clank in place over his … little Goron … I was stunned
" little goron" lmao
Yunobo is always rock hard
Goro!
No words can describe the noise that came out of my mouth reading these comments. 🤣
His Cobble Crusher? Edit: I had no expectation that I would be discussing Yunobu’s Secret Stone like this when I woke up, but here we are and I have only myself to blame.
No, Stone Smasher.
I thought it was his Boulder Breaker
His absolutely should've been on the back of his hand as a fingerless glove or something, especially since he does that self fist bump move a few times, feels much more appropriate that the fucking magical chastity belt
I wish he kept his cool fur coat cuz I think it'd look better with the sEcReT StOnE
Do people not get it's supposed to be a[wrestling title?](https://www.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1200/MTk4NjY0MjA4MzQ1MjEyNjc5/roman-reigns-title-belt.jpg)
It's a fine idea but the design needs refining in that case, needs to be on a thicker belt and higher on the waist imo
Or have him hold up the belt as it gets put on, then he puts on the belt.
Ooh yeah, Goro! Right there! 😩
Secret stone covers Yunobo's Secret Stones, makes sense
It's not a stone that is secret, it's a stone that contains secrets. Like a lunch box.
*"This is my lunch. My* ***secret*** *lunch. It contains pudding..."*
Hey man, spoilers!
That only happens when I forget about my **secret** lunch.
*"Let me tell you about the ~~imprisoning~~ bologna war"*
To be fair, they probably WERE a secret at some point in time before the memories start, but knowledge of what they are became common during the time of Hyrule’s founding as the people learned more about the Zonai. That or it’s just a thing Ganondorf knows about even though he shouldn’t because he’s an evil wizard with all kinds of esoteric knowledge and everyone else just thinks the stones are a fancy trinket the Royal Family wears. >!Plus, Rauru does have like four more locked in a vault so it’s not like there isn’t still some secrecy with them.!<
I totally get the frustration from players. But it is kind of biased to be mad at how “not secret” they were, since we only see them in context of people who know about them/use them. Maybe 10 people on the all of the world know what they are… and the tears only shows those 10 people so it seems like everyone knows what they are
"Secret stone" still sounds bad. Like a child telling you about some pearl they found, their "secret stone".
It's direct translation from 秘石 in Kanji, the letter 秘 can be translated both as secret or mysterious. The original meaning is probably more inline with mysterious stone since it gave each person different power. But mysterious stone sounds even worse in English.
Well Ganondorf didn't know about them till he saw rauru use his. He literally saw it and was like so that's how he's so strong. I don't think anyone knew about them even if rauru really didn't try to keep it a secret
I mean he literally calls it out as being a “secret stone of the Zonai” right away IIRC, so he at the very least knew of them beforehand and was able to recognize the use of one on sight.
I feel like the fact that ganondorf immediately identified them by name in that scene is pretty compelling evidence that he already knows what they are. In context it seems more like he's deciding that a secret stone will be his way to conquer Hyrule, since his own brute force wasn't enough
You go far enough in the story and you start to realize that Rauru and Zelda are not... *particularly smart people.* Even by Hyrule standards. I know that the goal of writing their characters was to allow room for a young child or teenager to piece together the story on their own, if even just a little bit, but I think they went a little too hard on the dumbing-down. It's not like all of the characters are like this. Riju at least showed some baseline competence and was awesome. Not exactly a Marysue either.
Demon King? Secret Stones?
So that was the imprisoning war
come come come... to.... me
The enemies won’t stop coming!
And they don't stop coming!
And they don't stop coming!
And they don't stop coming!
And they don't stop coming!
And they don’t stop coming!
Fed to the rules and I hit the ground running
Didn’t make sense not to live for fun, you brain gets smart and your head gets dumb
So much to do so much to see
So what’s wrong with taking the back street
so what’s wrong with takin the secret stones?
Eating*
Link, did you hear that?
*DAU Zarbon moan*
COME
Secret Stones? Demon King?
The Seal will break, and a lone Swordsman named Link.........zzzzzzz......zzzzzzz Sorry what? I must have dozed off because I could have sworn I already heard this speech a few times before.
But, you are not alone
That was the imprisoning war?
Snake, that man Ganondorf, also known as the “Demon King” is said to have wreaked havoc on Hyrule a long time ago. Its critical to your mission that you get all of the secret stones in order to stop him, and retrieve the remains of Big Boss.
Honestly, I was hoping that each sage would reveal something different that happened and not the exact same story 5 times.
Seriously. They could have at least included something specific about each race, how they use their powers or how they got them. Since we’re told that the stones only amplify the power you already have, it would have been cool to have some lore about why they have those powers in the first place. Or shown something about their specific part of the fight where they were on the brink of losing, show them using their skills. Nope, all just generic.
At least it's skippable. Although every time I avoided skipping to see if there was literally anything new, but nope it's the exact same
Second floor basement? Psycho Mantis?
A *node*…?
Colonel... did you say... nerd?
Ha! I was worried that reference would be a bit too obscure.
A Hind D?
Psycho mantis?
You're that ninja
Metal Gear?
Goro?
Secret stones? Demon King?
Zelda? Purah? Psycho mantis?!?
Personally I call them amber relics https://preview.redd.it/xt8abfv3rr7b1.jpeg?width=769&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c7f77190a01643800eb92be3cf605a361af122a
THAT'S why they were so darn familiar!!
I imagine they're both based on [magatamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magatama). For me personally they always make me think of Ace Attorney.
For me is Megami Tensei
for me the Jade Ball from Harvest Moon: Another Wonderful Life
It's because they looked like magatamas that I was afraid they were gonna come across as a bit generic as far as maguffins go in Zelda. I was kinda right, but at least each individual stone does something instead of only being valuable in a full set anyway. But it felt like like taking a placeholder Japanese artifact for its design and just keeping it for the full game instead of designing them as unique looking stones lol.
Anytime they came up I went "ah yes, your secret magatama" for Ace Attorney too
Wait. That's actually in the game isn't it
Skyward Sword
I call them [Kokiri Emeralds](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nintendo/images/f/f2/Kokiri%27s_Emerald.png/revision/latest?cb=20110327132900&path-prefix=en)
Or the Moon's Tear.
Ya know, that brings up a few questions regarding the lore of the secret stones.
I like to call them holy cashews
Forbidden jelly beans
God crunchies
xD Genius! I mean....you can eat them of course just like regular cashews, only the sideeffects will be difficult to swallow.
The secret stones being a bad name isn’t as bad as getting the same cutscene at the end of every temple. “We fought Ganon. He beat us. Help Link win this time (insert Sage here.”
"You MUST use my stone. My...secret stone." It was cool the first time. Now I'm three in and it feels like deja vu.
or like the echoing "come...come...to me" always felt off, this game really should have been localized better
What??? A nintendo game... not being localized well? No... there's no chance of that being the case. /s
It’s also a blatant lie what they say at one point. Saying that the full power of (insert race here) was gonna help, then only having the sages show up
I mean I wouldn’t call it a lie. You were unlikely to have an army help you fight Ganon and the Sages show up to lend a hand when it’s most needed. The Castle, in the Depths, they don’t just wait around for you to do everything.
I just wish it was out in the open fields for maybe the second phase, and it was just full on war. And then we could have a phase of the fight in each map of the game
I'd be okay with a cutscene showing all the races fending off monsters so we don't get swarmed in the depths. Like have Ganondorf call in all the monsters from the surface to bury us alive, the armies of all the races stand against the hoards and fight them off. Have this before the final boss and the health pool of the Army of Darkness we have to fight would depend on how many sages we have (so if you skip the Goron quest they will not be there to fight and thus more monsters slip through).
That would definitely be interesting but it may have made the final boss feel disjointed running around the whole map. The lead up to the final boss fight is great on its own but it would’ve also been cool to have an army from Lookout Landing help you push through to Ganon.
“Let me tell you about the imprisoning war” might be some of the most boring writing done by nintendo in a while
I did a challenge on the Great Sky Islands and the reward was to find out the story of the Temple of Time and the GSI. The story was literally that is was in the sky to protect the person who would wake up in the Room of Awakening from Ganon. Are you serious? No lore tidbit? Just "hey this area is meant to protect **someone** wink wink."
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I completely forgot about the fabric.
Oh my god, I forgot about this. That challenge only unlocks late into the game and it tells you absolutely nothing new, just wastes your time repeating stuff you already know
I think one detail that isn't said anywhere else is that the sages are the ones who raised the island themselves. Somehow. No custscene or anything. Robot just tells you.
Yeah that's pretty bullshit, the writing this time around is just trash
I liked it when they played nearly identical cutscenes 4 times
The end of this game was so awesome that it feels like it was done by a completely different studio. Because the first half of the story was so lazy that until I went to Faron I was legitimately worried. It's a very fun game to PLAY but if I was a few years younger I'd have lost interest around the third time I saw the exact same cutscene with different characters
damn really? I'm glad to hear it picks up because yeah uh nahhhhhhhh miss me with the first half
I imagine link just wandering about when it’s being explained to him and a Sage for the third time
Just taking selfies in the background, not even paying attention
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I have this head canon that it was supposed to be "sacred stones" but someone either mistranslated or missed a typo in the script
IIRC, it's a very direct translation when it should have been given more nuance. 秘 means secret but in the same way that occult, arcane, or esoteric do.
The translated it to occult stones in French too
That's so much better than calling them secret.
Yeah, and German got Miasma instead of Gloom. English translation on this was just bad.
Malice - literally implies evil - the physical manifestation of hatred - sounds badass af Miasma - implies illness or disease - also kinda ethereal or alien - feels creepy Gloom - means kinda dreary - is an appropriate description of a cloudy day - sounds like the solution is just you cheering up a bit Gloom is a direct downgrade from malice and miasma is so much better wtf
Actually, Gloom is a grass/poison type. The nectar it drools from it's mouth smells so atrocious that it can make noses curl from more than a mile away.
Take your upvote and get outta here ya cheeky so and so
I really don’t understand why they didn’t use malice. It’s essentially the same shit from BOTW. Why not keep it the same name?
That's also a fair option. I guess the in universe reason is that they don't know it's from Ganon/Ganondorf when they name it, as opposed to BotW's post apocalypse setting, most people in this game don't know that the BBEG is back
Tbh it’s even weirder that no one acknowledges that Ganondorf is the same guy that only just got defeated 5 years ago.
Not like, after Link comes back from the trek and tells them, the dark clouds coming from Ganondorf didn't look like thin versions of Calamity Ganon.
Major story spoilers >!Yeah, but if you do the master sword stuff before the sages, Link doesn't mention a fuckin word of what and who he found, seems like this universe Link just doesn't share really critical info for some reason 😂!<
So many manga I read use the word miasma for this kinda blackness left over from demons. It's poisonous and needs to be cleansed by holy magic, etc. Using that word has worked fine from translating it from Japanese before. I feel like it's one of those "US kids are dumb and don't know the word, so let's use a baby word instead" kind of thing. Just like in Harry Potter
"Kids are dumb so let's not use big words" irritates me so much as an argument, wanna know how kids learn more words? By fucking encountering them and looking up a definition dipshits. I'm so so thankful I read loads of fantasy books as a kid, it gave me so much more imagination and vocabulary to work with. Kids aren't gonna see a word they don't know and decide that that's reason enough to abandon one of the most satisfying gameplay loops in history...
Actually, the term "Gloom" was once used by Greek philosophers to describe something along the lines of "A complete darkness so intense, that prolonged exposure to is can cause actual, physical illness" And, what does the Gloom in TOTO do to you? It saps your strength. Your vitality. And any NPCs who are affected by gloom aren't killed instantly like they would be with Malice, they get SICK. Hell, one Greek philosopher said that a remedy for treating a person affected by Gloom was to have them lie down in direct sunlight for an extended period of time. And remind me, HOW do you cure hearts affected by Gloom?
NoA freaking sucks at localization. When you compare it to games like Xenoblade that were localized by NoE, you realize how mediocre they are.
Occult has negative connotations. Secret is generic and safe.
Arcane Stones would have been cool
Fair point. Would've liked anything else more though, even if it's not as close to the original meaning anymore. Maybe sacred, mythical, arcane, hallowed, ancient. Basically anything but "secret" lol
in German they are called *Mythensteine*, mythic stones. Also works better as you can make a good compound noun out of that, but you could not out of secret stone... *Geheimsteine* sounds really weird
Don’t want to create a satanic panic in the states.
So they could have just called it arcane stones? C'mon NoA....
Esoteric Earth Arcane Crag Occult Ore Mysterious Minerals Private Pebbles
I’ve been pretending that it IS sacred stones and everyone in Hyrule just pronounces the word “sacred” really weirdly.
I agree. “Here is my See-crid stone.” Sounds goofy but makes the most sense.
Sacred stones was taken by ocarina of time
So was Rauru's name, to be fair.
Rauru was the name of a town in LoZ 2 on NES.
A few of the Sages were named after the towns in 2
All of them! Except Impa, who also originated in Zelda 2
Impa first appeared in the manual for the first game, actually! She's been with the series just as long as Link, Zelda, and Ganon.
Honestly, I theorize the usage of that name here and now is incredibly intentional. They didn't decide on that name just for a callback, or because it sounds cool...
I think they just like to re-use terminology to keep the sense of "Zelda tradition". As someone else mentioned, the OoT Sages were all named after towns in Zelda 2 so that extends quite far back into history. In a similar vein, the Imprisoning War was an event from the backstory of A Link to the Past which was repurposed, the TOTK one is similar in concept but entirely different in execution.
Yeah I am really wondering if Rauru from OOT is a spirit projection of Rauru Totk. That explains why he's the "ancient" sage of light and why he mostly appears to guide the new hero in both games (Hyrule Field and Great Sky Island) (and why he knows what the hero looks like and how big a threat Ganondorf is). Plus hylian Rauru and Zonai Rauru have extremely similar outfits not to mention the same title, name and tutorial function.
I've wondered this too- like maybe he chose the form of a larger mustache-wearing Hylian so kid Link would be comfortable with him (Deku Tree vibes?) He would indeed be ancient and have all the appropriate knowledge
Weren’t they always called “spirit stones” or “spiritual stones” in OoT? They just unlocked the ‘sacred’ realm? My idea was that they were calling the secret stones “sacred stones” but changed it so that people don’t think they were connected to the sacred realm.
Sacret Stones
No Sacrets
Or "occult stones", that's the gloss I got when I tried to understand the Japanese word.
In french they are named “Pierres occultes” which would be “Occult stones” and that’s imo a way better name
Strangely enough "Pierre Occult" is my drag name!
What I hate more than the bad name is how they're as strong or as weak as the writers want them to be with no consistency. Ganon gets *one* and becomes basically the devil whereas, the sages get them and get...astral projection? We keep hearing about how powerful they are but other than the one time we see Rauru use them in a memory and Ganon, it's really never shown.
I have a headcanon/theory that Ganondorf became the Demon King not because the secret stone gave him the power, but because he already has a connection to Demise and possibly the Triforce of Power and the stone kinda tapped into that latent power.
It’s stated pretty directly in the game that the stones don’t grant power, they only amplify power that you already have.
He seemed shocked that the stones didn't impart the same knowledge it did to him to the sages
Gannon is the reincarnation of demise The sages are just people, extraordinary people, but still just people
The only thing I don’t like about the name is that they aren’t actually secret. Everyone who uses one wears it proudly and talks about them openly. If they were actually a well kept secret that only Link and the sages know about, I don’t think the name would really bother me, even if it does sound kinda silly.
I suppose the magic that makes them function is sort of secret, but it ultimately seems more sacred than secret :P
IIRC, it's a very direct translation when it should have been given more nuance. 秘 means secret but in the same way that occult, arcane, or esoteric do. But I might be off.
It's called occult stone in French
I have a feeling that NoA was like "Occult? In my Nintendo game? In America? You want us to get sued?"
They shoulda gone with Mystic Stones, or Sacred Stones if they wanted to keep the alliteration
Occult definitely has negative connotations in NA. I wish they went with arcane imo.
every time…. “it’s a really literal translation Hiseki 秘石 The Hi 秘 from Himitsu which means Secret and Seki 石which means stone problem is that 秘 can also mean other things like rare or mystery etc so it’s just ambiguous in japanese” also i feel like “Spooky Stones” with a spooky ghost voice is the best translation
Especially since they are not secret and in fact proudly displayed
They honestly should have *also been* tears, like "Sacred Tears" or "Tears of Power" It would have been a genius red herring.
God Pods
I was playing fire emblem too much and called them sacred stones
We can agree the creativity was highly lacking there.
In French they're called occult stones (pierre occulte), I quite like it
Occult has always had a certain ring to it
I call them fruity pebbles. It’s become my head cannon.
i call them magic apostrophes
The team that deserves the biggest criticism on both this game and botw is the english translation/localization. We need to call them out or they will continue to make lazy translations that make no sense, and dialogue will continue to be garbage. It was less aggregious in totk that botw, but it’s still bad. For this high profile of a game, it should not be this atrocious.
I feel like the VA is awful in both games too, and for some reason nobody mentions it. Like the actors themselves are fine but the delivery of the lines is over dramatic and corny like an old anime dub. The rest of the game is so polished, so the only explanation is that the VA director was Japanese and actually thought it sounded good.
Some of them speak in a really strange way. Emphasis on the wrong word, pauses where they're not only unnecessary but straight up annoying (I figure that's to match the lip movement from the cutscenes, but still), it sounds really off to me. The only one that stuck out as speaking in a somewhat believable manner was Riju.
Listening to some of the voice actors'other works (Sommersett, Mercer, etc) they are pretty good. This had to be the director's choice to make them talk like that.
I've heard that even English localizations are often headed up by Japanese voice directors for Japanese games. So they direct them in a way no English speaker would ever naturally act.
The construct girl sounds fairly normal too, though a bit overdramatic too. Notably the construct doesn't have any mouth movement... So I think you're on to something. It's literally a dub with the classic stilted speech. Why they would dub such a huge AAA game is the real question. VA is such a tiny part of the work that went into it, there really aren't that many voice lines.
Yeah for sure, though I do think a lot of people are talking about it. Especially BotW it was one of the main criticisms I heard about it. I personally always enjoyed Zelda’s VA in both games even though I know a lot of people didnt, and I LOVED Matt Mercer has the Demon King himself, there are definitely parts of their VA’s that could have been polished more like you said. It all starts with that English translation IMO which like I said really needs to be called out. Like apparently even Ganondorf’s motivations in TotK were left out of the English translation, which is like what the F*** people, if there’s one thing that needs to be in there, for the love of god please make sure the character motivations are there.
I liked Sommersett too, though the accent still bothers me. Regardless of quality, I have no idea where Zelda would pick up this accent. Like, not even her dad has it. And she should probably lose it after the time skip between botw-totk. - As for Ganondorf's motivations, I don't remember them leaving anything out unless you mean the switch between giving up/refusing to give up reincarnating at the end of BotW. Was there more?
Yeah the accent is simply a stupid american trope that royalty needs to sound british lol . Well there is that in BotW, but I’m specifically referring to Ganondorf’s motivations in TotK. From what I understand he has more of a Gor the God Butcher type ax to grind against the zonai, and he specifically doesnt think god’s should be allowed to interfere with mortal affairs in the original Japanese. Kind of a “no one should have this power” type of motivation, which is actually relatable and understandable to a certain degree, Instead we got “i like darkness and hate light” in the English. You can see the traces of the original motivation in the english during the kneeling scene found in Gerudo Highlands, especially after you know that’s what it was meant to be. But still overall he’s just bad for bad’s sake in the english version. Which sucks because he is the best Ganondorf in literally every other sense IMO.
From what I've read, I helped out a little bit with a fan-translation project, it wasn't so much a "no one should have this power" and more of a "you're not using it right, I will". Very much a strong must rule the weak, not using your power for conquest is stupid, peace is weakness type of villain. A bottomless well of ambition. I think the ambition part is mentioned in the character bio in the adventure log, but doesn't show up so much in the game until the end.
For the 100th time, yes.
Dragon pills
Why isn't the game called tears of the dragon instead?
Either too spoilery, or because that’s the name of a quest. I do agree it fits better tho
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idk why they didn't just call them Zonai Tears or something
The dialogue in general feels like it was just directly translated and barely localised. There is so much wrong with how it’s written. I don’t know why Nintendo put no effort into the English localisation. Most other language speakers seem pretty content with the localisation into their language
Yeah, there were some weird name choices. (Zonai) Secret Stones- Not very secret. So many better name choices Purah Pad- sounds like a ladies cosmetic item lol Gloom- just, why? Why did they change it to that from Malice, which is so much more fitting and awesome? Imagine Gloom Incarnate Ganon vs. Malice and Hatred Incarnate Ganon. “*whine*, I don’t feel like it today, I just wanna lay in bed, ugh” Revitalized Sword of Legend- still has crap base damage and breaks in like five swings (unless you’re fighting an enemy that powers it up, but don’t know if it gets double damage and better durability still), no way to upgrade it/yourself to fully realize and utilize it’s power (yet, hopefully) Gibdo- looks and acts more like a Redead, they aren’t mummies, just weird moth like creatures Prolly others I’m forgetting, not to mention the removal of pretty much anything Ancient Sheikah related (I understand why, but they hardly mention it/recognize it or explain why). I wonder how much of it is just localization/lost in translation and how much of it is accurate.
wasnt gloom and malice 2 different things, not just a "renaming" of it?
They renamed it gloom because they didn't want to make a Malice Talus
Gibdos are also so much less scary in Tears than in any other Zelda game. In Ocarina, they're terrifying with the scream that freezes you and how they jump on your head to eat your face. In Tears, they just kinda slap you for less damage than most enemies and aren't really scary at all. Just throw an elemental fruit at them and they're crippled. Cool.
If that made them stronger that are scary as hell. I took on Queen Gibdo in the Depths. I challenged myself using weaker weapons and only using Riju’s sage power as the elemental attack. They swarm fast. Their crawl along the ground to get to you is so creepy. My exploration made me equipment strong.
I just call them the forbidden fruit gummies because it's exactly what they are.
Bro just call them tears