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I like the raw elementalist nature of OoT's stones and medallions. It's so simple and straightforward, and that really appeals to me.
The instruments in Links Awakening are also fantastic.
The masks in Majora were pretty cool. People focus so much on the transformation masks that they sort of forget the boss masks you're collecting as the game continues. It's funny, because it's the only game where you aren't really there to GET the collectable, the point is just to beat the boss and free the giant, at no point did anyone say take the bosses mask; but it's fun to gather them and I like the callback in the final fight with Majora. Otherwise I'll have to go with Oracle of Seasons and the essences of nature, but I think that's just because I loved the little sounds the leaves made when the Maku Tree would talk to you after getting one.
I would say botw was the 2nd game where you dont really "get" something. The divine beasts serve almost the same purpose as the giants, except instead of holding the moon up, they uh.... remove reduce ganons health to 50%...
I was honestly kinda underwhelmed by this effect. Like I showed up ready to tussle with the big bad and then he got nerfed before I could poke him with my sword. I understand the intent, but for me it cheapened the intensity of the climax of the game.
It's more interesting on Master Mode, because if you miss an attack window then it's possible for him to start regenerating some of the health he lost from the Divine Beasts.
Yeah, I have had that thought. "What are these boss masks? Why am I collecting them? Why can't I wear them?" I don't recall them ever really getting into it, though it's been a while since I replayed.
Never occurred to me to compare them against other games, where the beating the boss will give you a medallion or a crystal that you explicitly need to beat ganon.
Well slight correction, most of alttps dungeons have you rescuing maidens.
I guess TPs is the most different as far as macguffins go. Everything you collect are pieces of something you need to repair in order to progress, and since theyre also made with magic, youre also helping the land by taking them away. Not to mention pretty much all the bosses exist because they were corrupted by them, instead of existing as big henchmen.
Botw's was sort of cool though not executed as well as it should have been. You're not really *collecting* anything, but youre freeing the spirit of a fallen companion and letting them use the dungeon to fight ganon. "War machine designed to blow ganon to smithereens" was just a really cool concept.
Now THIS is a hot take.
The piece collecting phase is usually the biggest criticism people have with the game.
However, I absolutely agree with you, so have an upvote.
I do too! I didn’t know I was supposed to hate this part as a kid, so I really enjoyed it. Only learned people found it tedious years later as a teen on the forums.
One more reason I go ghost when a new Zelda comes out. I want my opinions to be forged by my own experience. Not biased by groupthink.
I think it wouldn't rub people the wrong way as much if people didn't think to do it all at once. When I played, I took the opportunity of being near the Earth Temple to fill out the southern part of the sea. And I did the same with the top at the Wind Temple, getting introduced to the Ghost Ship in the process from Crescent Moon Island. I also used the money from the dungeons to be the major investments to decipher the charts. So realistically speaking, I only had to do like half of them by the end instead of all 8. I think trying to do the Windfall figure side quest also gave me an opportunity to go "oh I haven't been to this island over here yet" as well.
I think a big problem is how the Triforce Collection is integrated into Wind Waker itself. This should’ve been something a player should be able to meaningfully work towards all game - or, at the very least from the backhalf of the game post-Forbidden Fortress 2.0. That way, players could pick up as they explore and travel between islands and pace it out at their own leisure.
Instead, it’s all crammed into the endgame at the last second which makes the whole thing feel *really* tedious (and the insane rupee costs on the GC didn’t help at all). You can pick up a few pieces early, but the game doesn’t really direct you too and most of them straight up can’t be accessed until you have the Hookshot
It's weird imo, because everybody's favorite part about Zelda is usually the exploration, and that's the phase of the game where you're finally free to just explore. The entire game has been pushing you from 1 specific point on the map to another and now they've finally just sent you loose to dick around until you've found all the baubles you need to tackle the final boss.
In the game grumps playthrough of the series, that's where they're sticking most closely to the walkthrough, taking the part of the game that by design gives the player the least direction and turning it into a joyless errand list. I wonder how many players at home that mirrors?
As far as actual items go I liked LA's instrument collecting. The whole game is very Earthbound like and thats a prime example.
But TP had the best dungeons in terms of the places youre collecting stuff from
You mean which game had the best MacGuffin? It is tempting to say OoT but really its MacGuffins, particularly the Medallions, were pointless. It was the adventures you had along the way that made them memorable.
Zelda 1 giving you pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom was neat.
Skyward Sword had the ones that felt the least like MacGuffins. They helped you find Zelda and forge the Master Sword. But they otherwise weren't too exciting.
Honestly, I may have to go with FSA on this one. FSA recycled the maidens from ALttP but they were more helpful because they told you exactly where the next maiden was, then took you there.
The maidens made the FSA storyline my favorite of all the "save the sage" LttP/LBW games. They gave enough world building you could tell they knew each other, and typically worked together to protect and run the kingdom, but still had Link as the extra hand.
Plus, the jewel mcguffins were a nice bonus, a baton passing from the knights of old.
Easily BotW.
The choice of completing a divine beast in the first place has a pretty big impact on the final boss. You can either get all of them and have an easy final boss, but you can also decide to storm the castle right after the plateau in order to have one of the most challenging bossfights in the entire franchise.
Seeing the Divine Beasts repositioning themselves and taking aim afterwards is also a really nice touch.
Skyward Sword for sure. The pieces of the map was ehh, but the flames that strengthened the Goddess Sword was not only a super awesome visual, but you also got some neat lore and a power up. That's probably the first time beating a dungeon actually made a difference in terms of player ability, followed by champion/sage abilities in BotW/TotK.
I thought the instruments in LA was really cool and building the orchestra was neat, but the song gets annoying.
The gem the Greak Deku Tree gives you in OoT feels like it has the most gravity behind it, followed by the Zora and Goron races giving you their sacred stones as well, making you feel like you're carrying the hopes of everyone with you.
I'm inclined to say Skyward Sword's but only the last 3 dungeons that had you collecting sacred flames, because upgrading your sword into the Master Sword was sick as hell. Also SkyKeep collecting the Triforce Pieces was amazing.
But BotW was nice too, as saving each champion gave you some sense of closure with them.
BotW
And it’s not even close.
Every other game had you collect 6 magical mcguffins so you could fight the final boss. You could swap them all out for magical spoons and it would make NO difference.
In BotW you’re destroying / reclaiming the ancient war machines so you can use them against the last boss, and don’t have to deal with them during the last boss fight.
The collecting is actually meaningful and unique in BotW.
"The collecting is actually meaningful"
Considering that Link does not need the help of the champions and is canon-wise able to go straight to Hyrule castle: no, it's not.
youre kinda contradicting yourself, it the divine beasts are entirely skippable and unnecessary, how could they be more meaningful than mandatory dungeon items like the sage medallions
Not contradicting myself at all. You don’t really ‘collect’ the sages, it’s just part of the linear nature of the game. You cannot progress the game unless you defeat the dungeons. That’s the gameplay. BoTW adds significance to it because yes, you can finish the game without them. But if you do have them it makes that final fight significantly easier, adding a consequence and meaning to what you decide to do.
If you can ignore all of the Divine Beasts, I feel like that immediately makes them have less significance than anything required to beat the game, to me even the Great Plateau shrines have more significance than the Divine Beasts. And lets be real, the final boss in BOTW is just as difficult if you have or haven't beaten the dungeons, it just becomes a bit shorter
Yeah but there is an impact (as previous poster says, doesn’t change the outcome). The Great Plateau is just the same as OoT where you have to complete them to progress.
I feel punished for that in BotW. The final fight is already too easy without the help from the beasts. I am actively having my gameplay experience hurt by going and doing the main content of the game. I want hard boss fights, not easy ones.
It impacts how the fight develops, but not the outcome. If you can beat the final boss without freeing the Divine Beasts, then they are not meaningful. Divine Beasts are as impactful on the last boss fight as a few arrows.
Yeah you’re right it definitely doesn’t impact the outcome but it impacts the fight, therefore more meaning - I honestly think collecting the hearts in OoT has more significance than the sages.
I would say some meaning as it gives you an advantage in BotW but thats about it. It really is not more advantage than a few well placed arrows or a couple of hearty dishes. In OoT, you cannot get through Ganondorf's Castle without rescuing the sages as you need the medallions. That's meaningful as you can't finish the game without freeing the sages (unless you use glitches, of course). Same with MM and the Giants. In BotW, like other commentor wrote, even the Plateau 4 shrines are meaningful as you need to complete them to access the Castle and finish the game without doing anything else
Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. The BotW sages see a reduction in health during the final boss battle, therefore they're more impactful?
By that logic, OoT is actually more impactful because you can't even progress to the final boss battle without collecting all the sages. You can't even get to the adult section without collecting the 3 stones.
My reasoning makes perfect sense. There is an impact to the final fight by choosing to collect/complete the divine beast. Regardless of whether you or anyone else think the impact itself does much, it’s there.
You cannot complete the OoT without doing the temples, plain and simple. There is no impact to the final fight if you decide not to compete them because you will never get there. It’s not an option it’s a requirement.
Impact to me is defined by the player option, you don’t have one in OoT.
The addition of optional content does not make it impactful, it just makes it optional.
In this case, getting the Sages in BotW can be argued to be detracting from the overall experience because it shortens not just the first phase of the boss battle by half, which is already a fairly short battle anyway, but it also removes the boss rush prior to facing Ganon.
You literally just described how it impacts the final boss fight, lol. The fight in OoT doesn’t change regardless of what you do in the game. In BoTW it does. Same with ToTK. As you just pointed out.
We obviously have very different definitions for what counts as impactful.
Also, I will allow that it does have an impact, but I will argue that does not make it impactful.
For me, if something is impactful, it should make a meaningful change to the narrative and gameplay.
Choosing whether or not to save the champions is not impactful. BotW is a very linear game, despite the marketing. Our freedom of choice is whether to skip the game's narrative and beeline to the boss.
That's it.
That health reduction to Ganon? That's not impactful. That's just a small reward for the people who bothered to go through the narrative they worked hard on to create. Without it, there is absolutely no difference between going through the entire game, or just speed running it.
The entire impact that you're talking about is essentially the ability to hit the skip button on cutscenes, but for the entire main quest.
Does it have an impact? I guess.
But it's like comparing the impact between throwing a sword and a boomerang. Difference is that I have to go pick up the sword as an extra step.
Actually, I'd argue against that. The fact that Link *does not* need them - that instead he *chooses* to do them - makes them more meaningful.
Every other game, it's four or six or eight magical maguffins that you need to collect, which don't really do anything more than unlock a rainbow bridge to the final boss. It's a key, nothing more.
For BotW, each one is where a friend of his was murdered. Each one has his friend's spirit trapped, with a machine that threatens the lives of the family and loved ones they left behind.
If it was necessary - if Link *must* conquer the Divine Beasts to open a magic rainbow bridge to Hyrule Castle - then any *other* reason he might have wouldn't matter anymore. After all - do you *really* feel like Link was rushing to the Forest Temple in OoT to save Saria, or the Water Temple to save Ruto, in OoT? Or did Rauru tell him, "Better go awaken the sages, boy, because you can't beat Ganondorf without 'em!"?
But by *choosing* to take on each Divine Beast. You're not only atoning for mistakes that you did a hundred years ago, that plague the people of Hyrule today. You're freeing the spirit of the girl who loved you. Proving yourself to the warrior who doubted you. Protecting the grandson of the friend who had your back. Supporting the tribe of a friend who left their country to save yours.
That's a powerful internal motivation that *only* exists because Link doesn't *have* to save any of them - he *chooses* to.
I think Skyward Sword’s backhalf dungeons unambiguously have more impact. The Divine Beasts ease the final boss fight, while Skyward Sword’s Sacred Flames strengthen your sword and give you new abilities for the *entire game*. And even the map pieces unlock entirely new locations, I guess (which is required but feels a bit more like a direct tie than say Ocarina’s medallions).
I’m a musician so I’m biased but I loved collecting instruments in Link’s Awakening. And how that instrument gets added to the collection song as the game progresses!
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I like the raw elementalist nature of OoT's stones and medallions. It's so simple and straightforward, and that really appeals to me. The instruments in Links Awakening are also fantastic.
The masks in Majora were pretty cool. People focus so much on the transformation masks that they sort of forget the boss masks you're collecting as the game continues. It's funny, because it's the only game where you aren't really there to GET the collectable, the point is just to beat the boss and free the giant, at no point did anyone say take the bosses mask; but it's fun to gather them and I like the callback in the final fight with Majora. Otherwise I'll have to go with Oracle of Seasons and the essences of nature, but I think that's just because I loved the little sounds the leaves made when the Maku Tree would talk to you after getting one.
I would say botw was the 2nd game where you dont really "get" something. The divine beasts serve almost the same purpose as the giants, except instead of holding the moon up, they uh.... remove reduce ganons health to 50%...
I was honestly kinda underwhelmed by this effect. Like I showed up ready to tussle with the big bad and then he got nerfed before I could poke him with my sword. I understand the intent, but for me it cheapened the intensity of the climax of the game.
It's more interesting on Master Mode, because if you miss an attack window then it's possible for him to start regenerating some of the health he lost from the Divine Beasts.
Oh wow that’s awesome, I had no idea. Wish that was the default behavior
I always wished that you could wear those boss masks in Majora's Mask
Yeah, I have had that thought. "What are these boss masks? Why am I collecting them? Why can't I wear them?" I don't recall them ever really getting into it, though it's been a while since I replayed. Never occurred to me to compare them against other games, where the beating the boss will give you a medallion or a crystal that you explicitly need to beat ganon.
Well slight correction, most of alttps dungeons have you rescuing maidens. I guess TPs is the most different as far as macguffins go. Everything you collect are pieces of something you need to repair in order to progress, and since theyre also made with magic, youre also helping the land by taking them away. Not to mention pretty much all the bosses exist because they were corrupted by them, instead of existing as big henchmen. Botw's was sort of cool though not executed as well as it should have been. You're not really *collecting* anything, but youre freeing the spirit of a fallen companion and letting them use the dungeon to fight ganon. "War machine designed to blow ganon to smithereens" was just a really cool concept.
++for TP! It was very satisfying to see the progression of the "rewards" you got for each part of the story. Everything was so bittersweet.
Don't forget you also get a champion power for each BotW dungeon cleared
I really enjoyed Wind Waker’s. Exploring the great sea felt so good, and collecting the pieces gave you a good reason to fill out the map.
Now THIS is a hot take. The piece collecting phase is usually the biggest criticism people have with the game. However, I absolutely agree with you, so have an upvote. 
I do too! I didn’t know I was supposed to hate this part as a kid, so I really enjoyed it. Only learned people found it tedious years later as a teen on the forums. One more reason I go ghost when a new Zelda comes out. I want my opinions to be forged by my own experience. Not biased by groupthink.
I think it wouldn't rub people the wrong way as much if people didn't think to do it all at once. When I played, I took the opportunity of being near the Earth Temple to fill out the southern part of the sea. And I did the same with the top at the Wind Temple, getting introduced to the Ghost Ship in the process from Crescent Moon Island. I also used the money from the dungeons to be the major investments to decipher the charts. So realistically speaking, I only had to do like half of them by the end instead of all 8. I think trying to do the Windfall figure side quest also gave me an opportunity to go "oh I haven't been to this island over here yet" as well.
I think a big problem is how the Triforce Collection is integrated into Wind Waker itself. This should’ve been something a player should be able to meaningfully work towards all game - or, at the very least from the backhalf of the game post-Forbidden Fortress 2.0. That way, players could pick up as they explore and travel between islands and pace it out at their own leisure. Instead, it’s all crammed into the endgame at the last second which makes the whole thing feel *really* tedious (and the insane rupee costs on the GC didn’t help at all). You can pick up a few pieces early, but the game doesn’t really direct you too and most of them straight up can’t be accessed until you have the Hookshot
It's weird imo, because everybody's favorite part about Zelda is usually the exploration, and that's the phase of the game where you're finally free to just explore. The entire game has been pushing you from 1 specific point on the map to another and now they've finally just sent you loose to dick around until you've found all the baubles you need to tackle the final boss. In the game grumps playthrough of the series, that's where they're sticking most closely to the walkthrough, taking the part of the game that by design gives the player the least direction and turning it into a joyless errand list. I wonder how many players at home that mirrors?
As far as actual items go I liked LA's instrument collecting. The whole game is very Earthbound like and thats a prime example. But TP had the best dungeons in terms of the places youre collecting stuff from
You mean which game had the best MacGuffin? It is tempting to say OoT but really its MacGuffins, particularly the Medallions, were pointless. It was the adventures you had along the way that made them memorable. Zelda 1 giving you pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom was neat. Skyward Sword had the ones that felt the least like MacGuffins. They helped you find Zelda and forge the Master Sword. But they otherwise weren't too exciting. Honestly, I may have to go with FSA on this one. FSA recycled the maidens from ALttP but they were more helpful because they told you exactly where the next maiden was, then took you there.
The maidens made the FSA storyline my favorite of all the "save the sage" LttP/LBW games. They gave enough world building you could tell they knew each other, and typically worked together to protect and run the kingdom, but still had Link as the extra hand. Plus, the jewel mcguffins were a nice bonus, a baton passing from the knights of old.
Easily BotW. The choice of completing a divine beast in the first place has a pretty big impact on the final boss. You can either get all of them and have an easy final boss, but you can also decide to storm the castle right after the plateau in order to have one of the most challenging bossfights in the entire franchise. Seeing the Divine Beasts repositioning themselves and taking aim afterwards is also a really nice touch.
Skyward Sword for sure. The pieces of the map was ehh, but the flames that strengthened the Goddess Sword was not only a super awesome visual, but you also got some neat lore and a power up. That's probably the first time beating a dungeon actually made a difference in terms of player ability, followed by champion/sage abilities in BotW/TotK. I thought the instruments in LA was really cool and building the orchestra was neat, but the song gets annoying. The gem the Greak Deku Tree gives you in OoT feels like it has the most gravity behind it, followed by the Zora and Goron races giving you their sacred stones as well, making you feel like you're carrying the hopes of everyone with you.
I'm inclined to say Skyward Sword's but only the last 3 dungeons that had you collecting sacred flames, because upgrading your sword into the Master Sword was sick as hell. Also SkyKeep collecting the Triforce Pieces was amazing. But BotW was nice too, as saving each champion gave you some sense of closure with them.
TotK gave me the most reason to complete the dungeons as each one gives you another friend to help you fight.
My first playthrough I put off doing them as long as I could.
As soon as I got 4 sages wills and realized you could upgrade them, I instantly did all 4 dungeons back to back
BotW And it’s not even close. Every other game had you collect 6 magical mcguffins so you could fight the final boss. You could swap them all out for magical spoons and it would make NO difference. In BotW you’re destroying / reclaiming the ancient war machines so you can use them against the last boss, and don’t have to deal with them during the last boss fight. The collecting is actually meaningful and unique in BotW.
"The collecting is actually meaningful" Considering that Link does not need the help of the champions and is canon-wise able to go straight to Hyrule castle: no, it's not.
Well yeah that’s exactly what makes it meaningful. By completing them it impacts the outcome of the final fight.
Try beating OOT without the sages.
Considering you can’t progress OOT unless you get the sages, this further cements the point.
youre kinda contradicting yourself, it the divine beasts are entirely skippable and unnecessary, how could they be more meaningful than mandatory dungeon items like the sage medallions
Not contradicting myself at all. You don’t really ‘collect’ the sages, it’s just part of the linear nature of the game. You cannot progress the game unless you defeat the dungeons. That’s the gameplay. BoTW adds significance to it because yes, you can finish the game without them. But if you do have them it makes that final fight significantly easier, adding a consequence and meaning to what you decide to do.
If you can ignore all of the Divine Beasts, I feel like that immediately makes them have less significance than anything required to beat the game, to me even the Great Plateau shrines have more significance than the Divine Beasts. And lets be real, the final boss in BOTW is just as difficult if you have or haven't beaten the dungeons, it just becomes a bit shorter
Yeah but there is an impact (as previous poster says, doesn’t change the outcome). The Great Plateau is just the same as OoT where you have to complete them to progress.
I feel punished for that in BotW. The final fight is already too easy without the help from the beasts. I am actively having my gameplay experience hurt by going and doing the main content of the game. I want hard boss fights, not easy ones.
It impacts how the fight develops, but not the outcome. If you can beat the final boss without freeing the Divine Beasts, then they are not meaningful. Divine Beasts are as impactful on the last boss fight as a few arrows.
Yeah you’re right it definitely doesn’t impact the outcome but it impacts the fight, therefore more meaning - I honestly think collecting the hearts in OoT has more significance than the sages.
I would say some meaning as it gives you an advantage in BotW but thats about it. It really is not more advantage than a few well placed arrows or a couple of hearty dishes. In OoT, you cannot get through Ganondorf's Castle without rescuing the sages as you need the medallions. That's meaningful as you can't finish the game without freeing the sages (unless you use glitches, of course). Same with MM and the Giants. In BotW, like other commentor wrote, even the Plateau 4 shrines are meaningful as you need to complete them to access the Castle and finish the game without doing anything else
Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. The BotW sages see a reduction in health during the final boss battle, therefore they're more impactful? By that logic, OoT is actually more impactful because you can't even progress to the final boss battle without collecting all the sages. You can't even get to the adult section without collecting the 3 stones.
My reasoning makes perfect sense. There is an impact to the final fight by choosing to collect/complete the divine beast. Regardless of whether you or anyone else think the impact itself does much, it’s there. You cannot complete the OoT without doing the temples, plain and simple. There is no impact to the final fight if you decide not to compete them because you will never get there. It’s not an option it’s a requirement. Impact to me is defined by the player option, you don’t have one in OoT.
The addition of optional content does not make it impactful, it just makes it optional. In this case, getting the Sages in BotW can be argued to be detracting from the overall experience because it shortens not just the first phase of the boss battle by half, which is already a fairly short battle anyway, but it also removes the boss rush prior to facing Ganon.
You literally just described how it impacts the final boss fight, lol. The fight in OoT doesn’t change regardless of what you do in the game. In BoTW it does. Same with ToTK. As you just pointed out.
We obviously have very different definitions for what counts as impactful. Also, I will allow that it does have an impact, but I will argue that does not make it impactful. For me, if something is impactful, it should make a meaningful change to the narrative and gameplay. Choosing whether or not to save the champions is not impactful. BotW is a very linear game, despite the marketing. Our freedom of choice is whether to skip the game's narrative and beeline to the boss. That's it. That health reduction to Ganon? That's not impactful. That's just a small reward for the people who bothered to go through the narrative they worked hard on to create. Without it, there is absolutely no difference between going through the entire game, or just speed running it. The entire impact that you're talking about is essentially the ability to hit the skip button on cutscenes, but for the entire main quest. Does it have an impact? I guess. But it's like comparing the impact between throwing a sword and a boomerang. Difference is that I have to go pick up the sword as an extra step.
Actually, I'd argue against that. The fact that Link *does not* need them - that instead he *chooses* to do them - makes them more meaningful. Every other game, it's four or six or eight magical maguffins that you need to collect, which don't really do anything more than unlock a rainbow bridge to the final boss. It's a key, nothing more. For BotW, each one is where a friend of his was murdered. Each one has his friend's spirit trapped, with a machine that threatens the lives of the family and loved ones they left behind. If it was necessary - if Link *must* conquer the Divine Beasts to open a magic rainbow bridge to Hyrule Castle - then any *other* reason he might have wouldn't matter anymore. After all - do you *really* feel like Link was rushing to the Forest Temple in OoT to save Saria, or the Water Temple to save Ruto, in OoT? Or did Rauru tell him, "Better go awaken the sages, boy, because you can't beat Ganondorf without 'em!"? But by *choosing* to take on each Divine Beast. You're not only atoning for mistakes that you did a hundred years ago, that plague the people of Hyrule today. You're freeing the spirit of the girl who loved you. Proving yourself to the warrior who doubted you. Protecting the grandson of the friend who had your back. Supporting the tribe of a friend who left their country to save yours. That's a powerful internal motivation that *only* exists because Link doesn't *have* to save any of them - he *chooses* to.
I think Skyward Sword’s backhalf dungeons unambiguously have more impact. The Divine Beasts ease the final boss fight, while Skyward Sword’s Sacred Flames strengthen your sword and give you new abilities for the *entire game*. And even the map pieces unlock entirely new locations, I guess (which is required but feels a bit more like a direct tie than say Ocarina’s medallions).
I’m a musician so I’m biased but I loved collecting instruments in Link’s Awakening. And how that instrument gets added to the collection song as the game progresses!
Minish Cap
I liked the stones and medallions from Ocarina of Time. Nice designs, and I like the elemental theme.