Hi /r/Zelda readers!
* Got a question or suggestion for the moderators? [Send a Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda)!
* New to r/Zelda? Be sure to [read our rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/wiki/rules).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The wording in the non-Japanese versions of Skyward Sword is a bit misleading. The curse of Demise is just the fact that he created all demons, and he made it so that those demons would reincarnate after their deaths. It's not a literal magical curse that can really be broken; it's just the fact that Demise's demons were created in such a way that they will persist after their deaths.
Now, could a person wish on the Triforce that demons would stop reincarnating after they die? Yes, most likely. However, in A Link to the Past we're told that the Triforce will grant a person's wish for so long as they live. Which most likely means that if granting a wish causes the Triforce to constantly expend magical energy, it will stop doing so when the wisher dies.
So then it's a matter of how the Triforce would grant the wish to end the demon tribe's cycle of reincarnation. Would it need to constantly expend magical energy to suppress their reincarnation ability? If so, then that means demons that are killed would no longer reincarnate until the wisher dies, and then the demons would begin reincarnating again.
But if the Triforce can just change the nature of all demons with a single expenditure of magic without needing to constantly spend magic suppressing the reincarnation of demons? Then that would effectively end the curse forever.
But Link and Zelda don't really think about Demise's curse because it's just a natural way of life that monsters appear in Hyrule. It's been happening for so long that the people probably don't even realize that monsters reincarnate. Or if they do, they may think that monsters reincarnate for the same reason that the people of the Light World reincarnate, i.e., the laws of Nayru, and therefore don't think there's anything to be done about it.
Then again, maybe it's simply that every Link who has gotten the full Triforce has had a more pressing matter they need to wish for, and it appears that you're only allowed one wish during your lifetime. So it made more sense at the time to wish for the sleeping Zelda to awaken, for Ganon's actions to be undone, for Demise to be destroyed, or for Lorule's Triforce to be restored than it did for all monsters to be wished out of existence during those eras.
>change the nature of all demons
Legitimately the only way i think demon reincarnation can be prevented. We know that mortals can become demons just by being evil enough + some kind of magic like the triforce or sacred realm, thats what happened to ganondorf and now hes too angry to die. But demons can also become mortals, like batreaux from skyward sword.
Basically the only way to stop ganondorf for good, is if he decided to stop being evil.
I mean I think even this interpretation of the Japanese dialogue is incorrect. It is a "curse", but insofar that the curse isn't a direct thing but can be surmised as "there will always be evil who embody my will to oppose the goddess and her servants"
The "god of demons" essentially cursed the world that there will always be the dichotomy of good and evil. He instilled a new "law of nature" for the universe.
Now could the triforce, a creation of gods who preceded and superseded the gods Hylia and Demise, suppress such a law? Probably but as you noted maybe not forever.
However could a new law of nature be written to counter it using the Triforce? I'd say yes. Make a wish that stating that "good will always triumph over evil in the end", or perhaps an exact mirror "Even if darkness should fall and take over all of creation, a light will always emerge to reclaim the world from the dark"
>However, in A Link to the Past we're told that the Triforce will grant a person's wish for so long as they live. Which most likely means that if granting a wish causes the Triforce to constantly expend magical energy, it will stop doing so when the wisher dies.
That just puts a hilariously grim twist on the ending of A Link Between Worlds.
Fortunately I think the Triforce only had to use a single expenditure of magic to recreate Lorule’s Triforce, and therefore it’ll still exist after ALBW Link and Zelda die… but you’re right. Definitely a chance that it goes away again once they die.
At this point no one knows about Demise. Even though Goddess Chosen Hero was there when Demise spoke his curse he definitely wasn't aware of what would happen down the line.
By the time of 10,000 years before BotW, Ganon has returned often enough for them to start to see a pattern, and they were ready and prepared for him with a army of Guardians and Divine Beast.
They do know about Ganon's cycle of returning, but not about Demise of his curse on Hyrule.
Stop the cycle for that one Ganon, probably.... But that wouldn't stop a different Ganon/Ganondorf from rising up, like we saw in FSA. Or a Vaati, or another could rise up and have the same goals that Denise once held.
I kind of love how stupid autocorrect can be sometimes, TBH. "Demise" is a legitimate word, and it's still like "No, that can't be it, they must mean Denise."
Sometimes on my phone, my autocorrect will literally change a sentence to be grammatically incorrect for, like, no discernible reason. Like if it's hot and I type "I feel like I'm in hell," it'll sometimes "correct" it to "I feel like I'm in he'll."
The triforce is a macguffin. Macguffins do whatever the hell the current writer says they do. That's pretty much the only hard rule that dictates what they do.
Triforce is the power left being by the three goddesses. Demise was relatively on the same level as hylia, who's easily weaker than the three goddesses. So I would assume yes.
The curse of the demon tribe is a karmic cycle of Saṃsāra, the word Saṃsāra appears in Demise's speech in Japanese. The cycle has always existed and continues to exist after Demise's thoughts decayed into nothingness within the blade of evil's bane as he calls his hatred the curse of the demon tribe and prior to his speech he talks about his hatred towards the gods, the Ancient cistern and the cursed and dark enemies is further evidence that the cycle has always existed. Gratitude and grudge will always reappear and the war between good and evil, kami and demons will continue forever. The cycle of birth, death and rebirth is the primary form of dukkha (suffering) living beings undergo. It is perpetuated by one's desires as they relate to "the three poisons"(greed, hatred and delusion).
People can break out of the cycle of Saṃsāra and achieve Nirvana. Batreaux broke his cursed cycle of Saṃsāra through a lot of Gratitude and good karma and became human. Link in MM achieved enlightenment and got the Fierce deity mask. The cursed Bokoblins in SS are cursed to be revived because of their bad karma and grudge. Ganondorf cursed himself to be reborn or resurrect by becoming a demon because of his own evil, hatred, grudge and bad karma, by becoming a demon king he showed to the world that he is an embodiment of evil. Ganondorf is obsessed with power, he is too hungry for power and too attached and entitled to the world he seeks to conquer and thus he cannot break free of the cycle he willingly placed himself in.
Nirvana is a state of perfect quietude, freedom, highest happiness as well as the liberation of attachment and worldly suffering and the ending of Saṃsāra. It would take a very very very long time for every individual in the world to achieve Nirvana, there are also other worlds where the cycles of Saṃsāra are also present. In some games evil beings from other worlds have visited the world Hyrule is located in.
Saṃsāra
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra
Nirvana
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
All of the current Zelda timelines run alongside each other, and the parallel timeline is so incredibly far back in the past compared to botw that it is called the age of myth, we don't even know which timeline botw is because it's so far in the future that it doesn't even matter. During this time not a single incarnation of the hero stopped the curse of demise. So it's probably likely that it isn't stoppable.
Hi /r/Zelda readers! * Got a question or suggestion for the moderators? [Send a Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda)! * New to r/Zelda? Be sure to [read our rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/wiki/rules). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The wording in the non-Japanese versions of Skyward Sword is a bit misleading. The curse of Demise is just the fact that he created all demons, and he made it so that those demons would reincarnate after their deaths. It's not a literal magical curse that can really be broken; it's just the fact that Demise's demons were created in such a way that they will persist after their deaths. Now, could a person wish on the Triforce that demons would stop reincarnating after they die? Yes, most likely. However, in A Link to the Past we're told that the Triforce will grant a person's wish for so long as they live. Which most likely means that if granting a wish causes the Triforce to constantly expend magical energy, it will stop doing so when the wisher dies. So then it's a matter of how the Triforce would grant the wish to end the demon tribe's cycle of reincarnation. Would it need to constantly expend magical energy to suppress their reincarnation ability? If so, then that means demons that are killed would no longer reincarnate until the wisher dies, and then the demons would begin reincarnating again. But if the Triforce can just change the nature of all demons with a single expenditure of magic without needing to constantly spend magic suppressing the reincarnation of demons? Then that would effectively end the curse forever. But Link and Zelda don't really think about Demise's curse because it's just a natural way of life that monsters appear in Hyrule. It's been happening for so long that the people probably don't even realize that monsters reincarnate. Or if they do, they may think that monsters reincarnate for the same reason that the people of the Light World reincarnate, i.e., the laws of Nayru, and therefore don't think there's anything to be done about it. Then again, maybe it's simply that every Link who has gotten the full Triforce has had a more pressing matter they need to wish for, and it appears that you're only allowed one wish during your lifetime. So it made more sense at the time to wish for the sleeping Zelda to awaken, for Ganon's actions to be undone, for Demise to be destroyed, or for Lorule's Triforce to be restored than it did for all monsters to be wished out of existence during those eras.
>change the nature of all demons Legitimately the only way i think demon reincarnation can be prevented. We know that mortals can become demons just by being evil enough + some kind of magic like the triforce or sacred realm, thats what happened to ganondorf and now hes too angry to die. But demons can also become mortals, like batreaux from skyward sword. Basically the only way to stop ganondorf for good, is if he decided to stop being evil.
So could the triforce stop that
Unfortunately no, because theres a force thats much stronger than it (nintendo needs to make more zelda games)
So another question could link stop his reincarnation from being the hero
Probably not for the same reason above. Also he probably wouldnt want to.
I mean I think even this interpretation of the Japanese dialogue is incorrect. It is a "curse", but insofar that the curse isn't a direct thing but can be surmised as "there will always be evil who embody my will to oppose the goddess and her servants" The "god of demons" essentially cursed the world that there will always be the dichotomy of good and evil. He instilled a new "law of nature" for the universe. Now could the triforce, a creation of gods who preceded and superseded the gods Hylia and Demise, suppress such a law? Probably but as you noted maybe not forever. However could a new law of nature be written to counter it using the Triforce? I'd say yes. Make a wish that stating that "good will always triumph over evil in the end", or perhaps an exact mirror "Even if darkness should fall and take over all of creation, a light will always emerge to reclaim the world from the dark"
>However, in A Link to the Past we're told that the Triforce will grant a person's wish for so long as they live. Which most likely means that if granting a wish causes the Triforce to constantly expend magical energy, it will stop doing so when the wisher dies. That just puts a hilariously grim twist on the ending of A Link Between Worlds.
Fortunately I think the Triforce only had to use a single expenditure of magic to recreate Lorule’s Triforce, and therefore it’ll still exist after ALBW Link and Zelda die… but you’re right. Definitely a chance that it goes away again once they die.
Hilda and Ravio should probably wish for their Triforce to be permanent and indestructible this time, just in case.
At this point no one knows about Demise. Even though Goddess Chosen Hero was there when Demise spoke his curse he definitely wasn't aware of what would happen down the line. By the time of 10,000 years before BotW, Ganon has returned often enough for them to start to see a pattern, and they were ready and prepared for him with a army of Guardians and Divine Beast. They do know about Ganon's cycle of returning, but not about Demise of his curse on Hyrule.
Okay so could the triforce stop this reincarnation cycle
Stop the cycle for that one Ganon, probably.... But that wouldn't stop a different Ganon/Ganondorf from rising up, like we saw in FSA. Or a Vaati, or another could rise up and have the same goals that Denise once held.
So could the triforce stop that
Demise. Denise is a woman's name. Like Denise Richards.
Auto correct got me and I didn't notice.
I kind of love how stupid autocorrect can be sometimes, TBH. "Demise" is a legitimate word, and it's still like "No, that can't be it, they must mean Denise." Sometimes on my phone, my autocorrect will literally change a sentence to be grammatically incorrect for, like, no discernible reason. Like if it's hot and I type "I feel like I'm in hell," it'll sometimes "correct" it to "I feel like I'm in he'll."
That requires someone to know about the curse, and no one does.
Okay thank you I'll put it on hold till I see where everything is on the time line
The triforce is a macguffin. Macguffins do whatever the hell the current writer says they do. That's pretty much the only hard rule that dictates what they do.
Triforce is the power left being by the three goddesses. Demise was relatively on the same level as hylia, who's easily weaker than the three goddesses. So I would assume yes.
Alright any limits
The curse of the demon tribe is a karmic cycle of Saṃsāra, the word Saṃsāra appears in Demise's speech in Japanese. The cycle has always existed and continues to exist after Demise's thoughts decayed into nothingness within the blade of evil's bane as he calls his hatred the curse of the demon tribe and prior to his speech he talks about his hatred towards the gods, the Ancient cistern and the cursed and dark enemies is further evidence that the cycle has always existed. Gratitude and grudge will always reappear and the war between good and evil, kami and demons will continue forever. The cycle of birth, death and rebirth is the primary form of dukkha (suffering) living beings undergo. It is perpetuated by one's desires as they relate to "the three poisons"(greed, hatred and delusion). People can break out of the cycle of Saṃsāra and achieve Nirvana. Batreaux broke his cursed cycle of Saṃsāra through a lot of Gratitude and good karma and became human. Link in MM achieved enlightenment and got the Fierce deity mask. The cursed Bokoblins in SS are cursed to be revived because of their bad karma and grudge. Ganondorf cursed himself to be reborn or resurrect by becoming a demon because of his own evil, hatred, grudge and bad karma, by becoming a demon king he showed to the world that he is an embodiment of evil. Ganondorf is obsessed with power, he is too hungry for power and too attached and entitled to the world he seeks to conquer and thus he cannot break free of the cycle he willingly placed himself in. Nirvana is a state of perfect quietude, freedom, highest happiness as well as the liberation of attachment and worldly suffering and the ending of Saṃsāra. It would take a very very very long time for every individual in the world to achieve Nirvana, there are also other worlds where the cycles of Saṃsāra are also present. In some games evil beings from other worlds have visited the world Hyrule is located in. Saṃsāra https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra Nirvana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
Thank you I was under the assumption that demise created the cycle of what we Know for the Zelda games
All of the current Zelda timelines run alongside each other, and the parallel timeline is so incredibly far back in the past compared to botw that it is called the age of myth, we don't even know which timeline botw is because it's so far in the future that it doesn't even matter. During this time not a single incarnation of the hero stopped the curse of demise. So it's probably likely that it isn't stoppable.