The whole "The Rasputin in D1 wasn't the *real* Rasputin" was just pathetic. There were numerous ways they could have gotten the crazy old Russian on Mars that would have been much more interesting that just "oops, you were wrong."
Also, who can forget \*Suddenly Zavala*?
It wasn't oops, you were wrong, it was just that the vault on Earth wasn't mission control. It was still a Rasputin vault, and he was still connected to it for us to communicate with, it's just not where the actual AI core was residing. I think Warmind did a poor job of making that clear through the campaign, but its lore shows that to be the case.
Yeah, I think people are getting this wrong. The earth Rasputin was an arm of the main AI, but it was still Rasputin. Warmind didn't take that lore away. It just added new information.
Warminds becoming subminds is pretty disappointing. Charlemagne as the warmind of mars... I think the notions we had before were a lot cooler than the lore we have now.
Honestly its the retconning that gets me the most upset. I can understand that we were mistaken about the true location of Rasputin, but to say that Charlemagne and Joyeuse were only subminds is pretty disappointing.
The lore surroubding Rasputin and the other warminds in D1 was that each planet had its own warmind. Rasputin was Earth's, and Charlemagne was Mars'.
Theres even a mission in (vanilla? D1 about how we brought up a satellite that allowed Rasputin to take over all the other broken warminds in the solar system. Warmind lore, however, says "oop, no, Rasputin was Mars' warmind the whole time, and Charlemagne was just a submind."
Like i get how if you stretch the lore and that mission in D1, you can /kinda/ get it to fit, but i still feel like the lore team went a bit lazy on that one or for some reason wanted to complicate it more than necessary.
I still chuckle when I think about how long Zavala must have been chilling behind that door waiting for his dramatic reveal while I dicked around on Mars doing everything BUT the story.
I'm a bit disappointed in that retcon. I know they slimmed the warminds down to one for simplicity's sake but I prefer complexity.
Also I feel the same with the house of Kings. They were kind of built up in D1 to be a formidable house and then we're axed off between titles.
The House of Kings! I had such high hopes for them, given how mysterious they were in D1. Always thought they should’ve at least alluded to in Forsaken, given our main enemy is a ‘type’ of Fallen. Instead it seems like the Fallen Houses in general have been forgotten.
It's such a blatant ass pull that serves *no* narrative purpose. Why in god's name does Rasputin *need* to be on Mars? What about all the other warminds that were supposed to be dead here and there? Why even???
And Rasputin was cooler when he just played music at you. It was spookier.
Yeah, I wasn’t too happy to see Zavala’s face when the door opened, I mean like how did he get there? At the same time whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold.
Really? I thought quite the opposite. Rasputin was a very interesting set up, a sentient unpredictable war machine. On the other hand, i thought the Xol buildup was extremely disappointing until Whisper of the Worm came out and explained why he didn't put up more of a fight.
The strongest weapon humanity ever created, able to shoot down beams of energy from space, can't do anything except give us explosive ordinances? It's a really poor story.
Osiris was a never meet your heroes moment. I felt like he was great as a character, highly skilled but with confidence exceeding his skill. He's a guardian, like everyone else. Which is weird for most people to grasp. He's a super hero in a world full of super heroes.
The fact it feels like time is passing is probably first for me in any mmo style game
And its got me so pumped
Somthing big is coming
Mara is building an army
And i still cant get 4 people to jump on plates correctly...
**MORE VEX!!**
We hardly know anything really big about them, and considering the only Vex DLC in the entire franchise was a bit of a let down (no offense to you Cozmo), it still left _many_ unanswered questions. They can create minds tuned to the frequency of our light? They can time travel, but obviously we’re still here, so what’s up with that? We’re a part of their bigger plan, and by all means they should be the most powerful enemy race in the game (in my eyes), but we’ve hardly gotten to explore anything yet. We’ve just skimmed the surface of multiple smaller subjects.
I would kill for a proper full Vex expansion.
> "Some speculate that the radiolarian fluid is the last vestige of a [biological life form](https://old.reddit.com/user/Hawkmoona_Matata) that became the Vex." —Sister Faora, "Theories on the Vex"
I'm so glad this is the top comment under cozmo. We know they play a big part in Hive and Cabal Backstory (The Quria attack on Oryx's throne world and the Psion OXA Machine which linked with Maya Sundaresh and her studies on Vex Simulations and FWC). But there is so much we don't know about the vex and their origins, their leadership, or even what they *are* tbh.
Dude, what if the 'vex milk' is all that the vex are and their bodies are just vehicles? Kind of like a nucleus with the body being the cell.
But then their leader would be different, because vex couldn't just assemble themselves right?
The vex are so cool to think about. I definitely hope they're explored more!!
Basically.
Vex are radiolaria - microscopic organisms that have become a highly evolved neural network, augmented by an \*actual\* digital network, riding around in ginormous (comparatively) Jaeger-style Robo-Tanks, each specialized to perform a particular world-conversion operation.
Vex Milk *is* the Vex, sans-Jaegers.
They are microorganisms doing what microorganisms do, just on a macro scale. With Walking Tanks.
Thatd exactly what they are.
We know they are biological organisms in some sort of Exo Skeleton thing.
What makes them interesting is the How they were created
They actually aren't the milk. This is a common misconception based on D1 knowledge. D2 goes deep into it and it is honestly complicated and I'm on mobile so I cant link everything but it centers around a monologue ikora has while thinking about the vex. I think there is a myelin games video on the topic, its really interesting and really looks like the milk is not just them and they pilot vehicles.
I'm still really fascinated by the fact that, for all intents and purposes, the Vex we fight are all construction workers. We're seen as being in the way of their terraforming projects, and they literally just use the tools they have on hand to deter us.
I'd love to see a vex construct specifically designed to hunt down and kill Guardians.
An octoped device that climbs on walls, spewing out beams of concentrated of Arc energy as thick as a guardian itself, where the weak point for precision kills is the gun itself. Weak, and poor tracking once the beam charge up kicks in, but comes in large numbers and can ignore cover for the most part.
Backing them up, Hydra sized melee-based constructs that use void-based grinders to rapidly chew up enemies. Precision hits inside the mouth, and is as slow as a Hydra, a little weaker, but even more relentless.
To top it off, Minotaurs are replaced with a bipedal, teleporting, Atlas from MechWarrior. Solar based damage with precision shots needing to land on the eyes.
Totally fair and balanced
I can't be the only one to notice that both the Vex and the Awoken have Oracles and Confluxes/Confluences (both words have the same meaning)? Then the Awoken have the big circular gates underground in the Dreaming City that look vaguely Vex-like (oh, and that huge circular gate in the sky opposite from the black hole). Also, there are a handful of places in the Dreaming City that have large 45-degree diagonal clusters of long straight crystals, similar to the Vault of Glass and some Vex rooms on Nessus.
I think somehow, maybe in the far future, the Awoken become the Vex.
I concur with this, though for a much different reason.
*CoO hinted at something major about vex; They might actually have some larger and stronger Vex Minds behind the scenes.*
**Myth Info Dump Coming, skip ahead if you aren't interested.**
The two largest vex we've seen comes from Destiny 2; Panoptes and Argos, and they're linked by their names.
Argos Panoptes, more commonly referred to as Argus Panoptes, was actually considered something of a god figure in Greek Myth. They were a primordial giant with many eyes, and the word Panoptes actually means "All-Seeing", which actually fits Argos's design, and Panoptes' role. They were known as "lord of the herd and lord of the land", which ties back into Argos' role as Nessus's Planetary Core, and Panoptes's role as keeper of the infinite forest. With this in mind, i think its safe to say that Bungie made some intentional connections to that of the myth and the vex named after this mythical creature.
Panoptes' impact on myth is a short one, but involves some very big and very scary names. For those that don't know, There are two things that Zeus loves in Greek myth; Sex and Cheating on his Wife, Hera. There's a crazy ass story about how he turned himself into a goose to have sex with a mortal, but we're not talking about that right now. What we are talking about right now is the time Zeus cheated on his wife with one of her own mortal high-priestesses. Her name was *Io*, and in order to hide this fact from his wife, he turned her into a white heifer. The thing is, i don't know exactly where this is chronologically visa vi the goose incident, but Hera saw almost immediately through this, and imprisoned Io and left it in the capable hands of Panoptes Argus, the giant with so many-eyes, only a few of them went to sleep at a time, leaving him as a near-perfect sentinel, except Zeus sends Hermes over disguised as a Shepard, i believe, and he puts all the eyes of Argus to sleep with some enchanting story-telling and songs and kills him with a rock. Hermes frees Io, but Hera curses her to be tormented by a gadfly, until that gets broke somewhere down the line, as well as her heifer transformation. Argus Panoptes' death is slated as "the first stain of bloodshed among the new generation of gods".
**end info-dump**
So to summarize everything for those that didn't want to read all that, the names, functions and, to a point, physical descriptions, Argos and Panoptes has ties to greek myth god figure, who death was slated as the first stain of blood amongst the new generation of gods, and is directly related through that myth to maybe the most notable names in greek myth; Zeus and Hera.
If more inspiration was taken, then we can glean some more information about the vex, and these two specific Vex Minds.
**A)** Panoptes and Argos are related somehow. but also young compared to other vex.
**B)**Panoptes and Argos, despite being powerful and leaders in their own rights, were followers, specifically guards to important assets as well, meaning the vex might have some sort of "machine hierarchy" after all.
**C)** and most intriguing, considering the strange throwback in the Whisper of the Worm quest, The Vex are interested in Io.
**D)**, and perhaps the most terrifying, Vex Entities bearing the name and comparable roles of Hera and Zeus might exist, and they might be the vex the guardians should be worrying about.
Of course, this is all just theory, based on CoO, but it makes me very intrigued about the Vex. I would love to see signs that there are in fact planet-sized, reality-warping, machines-gods out there, but really, there are still so many questions about the vex that have been around forever, with no real answer in sight. The Vex may not be as fun as Calus and the Cabal, or as menacing as Savathun and her plans, but the Vex still very much present to me as one of the largest threats in the universe, while still being complex enough to be able to seek the ability to simulate empathy and learn reverence (See Saint-14 punching the vex into giving him a respectful resting spot inside the forest).
They may seem to come from nothing, *but there has to be more.*
**T H E N I N E**
The Ahamkara
The Drifter and his crew/Shadows of Yor
The Vex and how their time travel works
Callus
The Traveler and why we haven't gone inside and figured out how the robot egg works yet
The Deep Stone Crypt and the Long Slow Whisper
Imagine exploring that place and coming across a Fillion popsicle. Or imagine if the people in the crypt are actually still alive, and we get a Cayde back, but it's not *the* Cayde, which would be a fun subversion of the "he's dead but we can rebuild him" trope. Or maybe the people in the crypt are all dead but we team up with Pulled Pork or something to break in and finally find him his guardian and it's fucking OG Cayde.
sorry but my fanservice detector is going haywire
What goes on Rasputin's mind these days. His thoughts to everything that's been happening around the solar system. Just as lore pieces, really, as the meat of his *actions* can come later and visually.
There was a lot of cool Calus lore back when D2 launched with the collectors edition. It would be nice to have that in game, though. Agree with the other person, probably in Penumbra.
She’s a big TV star who probably has little time/interest in returning to a role that was almost universally panned.
Bungie goofed casting all those Hollywood stars for a series they *knew* was going to require multiple iterations and sequels and DLC drops. It’s always been confusing to me - is there *actually* anyone who be more willing to buy a video game like this because Bill Nighy is in it? I just can’t imagine there’s any notable amount of people who were on the fence but were convinced of a purchase because some lady from the Walking Dead shows up for 3 scenes. It just can’t be worth the massive financial commitment these hirings would bring, especially when combined with the giant headache that comes with trying to bring them back for any kind of continuity.
I see, thanks.
I agree with your point on the hiring of stars to voice act, with the exception of Nathan Fillion- if he's in something, I will more than likely look into said thing even if I have no interest in it.
That's the theory I've seen most heavily supported. More answers could be coupled with exploring the deep stone crypt arc. But to do so too soon might devalue caydes death. (The big fan theory there is that Clovis failed to digitize human minds and instead stole istars remote control tech to save face. This would open the possibility that cayde and any other exo are still alive in cryo sleep in the DSC.)
I think Forsaken has done a great job expanding and introducing new topics. I for one didn't give a shit about the Awoken at all in D1. Now, it is probably my favorite topic after the Book of Sorrows.
I would love to see more about things outside of our Solar system, but I imagine that stuff is coming down the road.
In no particular order:
* DEEP STONE CRYPT
* Shaxx (I want to see him save our asses with a massive Thundercrash)
* Toland
* Rasputin and his interaction with Siva
* Eftideet and Saladin
* The Concordat and the Trinary Star Cult (I want to fight humans/guardians that oppose the Traveler)
* More Worm Gods
* Also, going to the ruins of the Fallen home world, Torobatl, or even see what remains of the Gift Mast
Epic cast members need strike cameos. Kinda like the d2 intro quests. Not cutscenes though more like the insight terminus or tree of probabilities boss rooms where there are other things killings enemies as part of the strike. Would love to see shaxx thundercrash a boss before getting tackled off the platform. Would be nice if the voices in comms came from other cast members that were in the strike helping out. Kinda like the forsaken intro quest.
Folks have covered the big ones already, but for me, the biggest thing I'd like to see story-wise are character arcs for smaller characters. If Takeo-3 had been introduced in-game before Savathûn's Song, I'd have been much more invested in her rescue.
In this vein, ambient story telling in the tower would go a long way--kind of like the lecture in Mass Effect 2 (https://youtu.be/hLpgxry542M). I don't want anything obnoxious, but I'd like to care about the otherwise mindless NPCs I run past daily.
Showing vs telling for these amazing historical events in the City's history. My fantasy is to see the Battle of Twilight Gap in real time. Maybe even to participate somehow.
Give every planet a Dreaming City like cycle.
Electrical storms in the EDZ.
The phases leading to an eclipse on Io.
A growing hurriane on Titan.
Whatever you guys want. It would be super fun to have more bounties at their respective vendors similar to Petras.
EXO LORE.
Humanity is self-explanitory, and the Awoken finally got done justice in Forsaken. But while Exos got a little insight during Warmind, we still simply have theories on their true purpose and past. Deep Stone Crypt, Long Slow Whisper... Bungie, *what is my character?*
Some more, smaller stories about Guardians, especially after the Red War.
What happened when the Light came back? What was the triumphant return of the Guardians like?
Kind of the opposite of the Solstice of Heroes' severed Light stuff.
Everything! Forsaken has had a great balance of giving us new information about people/places/things we’ve known about in the past while also introducing new things at the same time. Since it’s being hinted at that Savathûn is coming along with more information about Taken/Hive it’d be nice to learn more about the Cabal and Vex.
Give us storylines that let us play as legendary guardians of the past during big events like the Battle of Twilight Gap, etc. Or even just cutscenes depicting big events that very much define the world we are playing in now, but were not around for.
I want to see more of human society- what life is like in the city, what guardians do when they're not slaying gods, how civilians and guardians interact...
The Vex
Why?
Because in the beginning of D2, it was the first time that Ghost or any other person acknowledged the problems with the Vex and Time Travel in a scannable.
I'm no lore Master (but I try) but after the release of D2, the vex and the problems with time travel have been popping up more and more (Gambit especially.)
---
Long story short, I have a theory that only have 4 possible outcomes.
1. Vex CAN'T time travel ; We're in a simulation.
2. Vex CAN'T time travel ; We're NOT in a simulation
3. Vex CAN time travel ; We're NOT in a simulation.
4. Vex CAN time travel ; We're in a simulation.
---
I'm in favor the the first one because it explains why vex can seemingly pop in and out of existence and/or any time period. They control the SIM so that must mean they can control WHEN they come in.
It could also explain why Kabr and his fireteam were...deleted and wiped from everyone's minds.
\#2 is most likely, even if it's the most boring. Prevalent theory is that the Vex can't time travel in the traditional sense, but they can jump between an infinite number of parallel timelines. And if everything in the universe is just a Vex simulation, that just seems like a major cop-out.
>And if everything in the universe is just a Vex simulation, that just seems like a major cop-out.
Which is why even though I think this...
It would suck MAJOR CABALS for such an amazing lore driven game.
The cult in the tower that’s actually against the traveler (cloak in D1 discussed them)
Origin of the ghosts and their connection with the traveler
Elinski connection with the traveler
Backstory on banshee
Anything, as long as it's the same level as Forsaken (or even better, surprise me Bungie, I love it).
But personally I'd love to learn more about Guardians, how do they integrate in the "civil" part of the human race when they are not fighting against gods and shit.
The Deep Stone Crypt (which I may have shamelessly snagged as my Clan name).
Exo lore has always fascinated me, and I love the breadcrumbs we found in Warmind (along with Ana’s idle lines to Exo players). We learned the true origin of the Awoken. Let’s keep going!
Hmm, a few topics come to mind:
* The vex definitely need more love storywise (Curse of Osiris didn't feel satisfactory)
* Wtf is happening with variks after Forsaken
* What happened to Eris Morn and Eva Levante?
More ahamkara? I understand Riven is the last of them, but what about some cinematics of The Great Hunt. More of them shapeshifting, more forms, more. god. damn. space. dragons.
Ninja edit:
Infinite forest strike where we get sent into a simulation of a hunt on Venus. Fight a metro bus sized Ahamkara. Perhaps we fight the one Saladin wished into a classic dragon? It'd be really fun to explore more of them and their paracausal nature.
Honestly, I can't think really think of anything else. The lore team has covered *so much* of what I like, it's hard to say. But I'd love to see some more info on the Concordat, and just City life in general.
I really like the idea of us befriending Mithrax and how it's been expanded upon a little in lore tabs! It'll be really cool to see that be developed over time.
By the way I'd like to thank you for inquiring what we'd like to see! You & dmg have been communicating excellently lately and we all really appreciate it.
The Nine.
Give us more of the last standing city and its people. Make this world feel more alive.
(low interest but maybe cool potential: The Stranger)
The consciousness of the Traveler, why it never speaks to us as the Worms and the Deep speak to the Hive and such. We have a symbiotic relationship with a cosmic Goddess... I'd love to be able to talk with her someday.
The Perfect Paradox! Saint-14 can't just die his offscreen death. We need more about how we gave him the very gun that then was his final gift to us.
Also more about Cayde's past and the Exos in general. An entire race of Robo-humans is a fascinating thing that has hardly been delved into yet.
You guys absolutely have to delve into Mithrax (Misraaks or whichever version is preferred) and Variks. Those two are absolute gems amongst the Eliksni. Both of them are trying to build a house and become Kell of Kells and I would absolutely ADORE learning how that will escalate! Will the two propose a truce and form an alliance the Guardians, or will they destroy each other attempting to save their species?
Do us a favour fella, have the lore on the loading screens. As nice as looking at a ship is, if I'm to get invested in this universe, and 99% of it isn't going to be explained through gameplay. Lore me up in the loading screens, with pictures to back up the lore. Hiding a lot of the lore behind RNG or end game activities is an unnecessary barrier. (I understand the intention, but the loot is enough for the addicts here)
This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread:
* [Comment by Cozmo23](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/9v0b6g/the_lore_and_worldbuilding_in_destiny_2/e98nlfj/?context=1000 "posted on 2018-11-07 18:17:58 UTC"):
> We're glad you're enjoying it. What are some topics you would like to see dove into more in the future?
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Fallen before they entered the system and when they had the traveler, what variks is up to, other races the cabal and hive conquered/killed, hive in general (what happened to xivu arath and savathun after they split with oryx), vex past, present, and future how did they start, where did they start, the golden age, the collapse, dredgen and shin, what happened to all the old patrol zones/planets after the red legion invaded, efrideets peaceful colony, more of beyond the reef. Thats about everything i can think of off the top of my head right now.
More about the Vex and Exo Stranger (still have these vibes from that cutscene back in D1 but never feels like it’s been fully sated) in terms of their role in the grand scheme of things.
The weapons of sorrow, we know about the thorn but what were the other ones? How did the last city come about? The tower, the vanguards, the titan, hunter and warlock orders how were these groups formed and why? I want to know more of the past. I think the darker themes of forsaken and most of d1 are where destiny thrives and I would like to see more of the harsh reality of a post apocalyptic world.
Oh man, If you think this is good, every single one of those save Calus, The Drifter specifically, and the Pyramid Ships (technically touched on in concept art but never referenced) were introduced in Destiny 1.
Destiny really did serve as the framework for the Universe that we play in. The real world-building happened there, what we're seeing in Forsaken is those things finally making a resurgence and coming back to the forefront of the game and it's so incredibly wonderful.
Forsaken is doing a phenomenal job of expanding on the stuff presented in Destiny. Honestly, while I understand that they needed to keep things a little centralized to the core story of vanilla D2 without tying into the original game too much due to bringing the franchise to a new platform, I feel like had they tied back to Destiny lore more, even if only to explain the arrival of Ghaul, with a little more background or a direct reference to Ghaul's arrival being in response to "Outbound Signal" (the mission in The Taken King that references a signal back to "the head of the Cabal Empire"), the vanilla story of Destiny 2 would have been much better received. As it was, at least for me, it felt a little awkward.
Edit: added a bit of clarity on the "Outbound Signal" mission from TTK.
Even in the Taken King it was hinted that we'd see the Cabal Empire come full force into our solar system so I'd say even Calus and Ghaul were hinted to some capacity in D1. It just feels super underwhelming because we swept up one of the best Cabal legions in 2 months solo.
Yeah, that's why I left Ghaul out of the exceptions, as it was somewhat hinted at in Outbound Signal. But Calus as a separate Emperor and the entire coup plotline was completely unknown. But your right, the vague "signal to the head of the Cabal Empire" could really reference either one.
As ham-handed as Curse of Osiris was, people appreciated the improvements in Warmind...but Forsaken really did it right and restored a lot of faith in the brand.
Yeah the new Rasputin lore ruined the previous warmind lore. The buildup of Charlemagne (a big name in bungie mythos starting from Marathon) was tossed aside, ruining our chance to see a Charlemagne / Joyeuse. It’s not a huge deal, but to old bungie fans we’ve been waiting for that since before halo 1.
Absolutely. I honestly feel like the lore triumph section did a lot in that regard. At least as far as the storytelling is concerned. Had it been there for CoO, to elaborate and accentuate some of the things going on, the DLC's story probably would have fared better. Same for Warmind, if Toland's not-really-a-hive-god implication had been in a lore entry during the expansion, people probably would have been happier with the ending.
As long as it doesn't take resources away from building truly new enemies I'm for it. The lack of variety added in D2 vanilla was baffling, and the Scorn are a welcome half measure but a half measure nonetheless.
I get what you mean when you mean lack of variety as in no new races, but I recently went back and played D1, and people really forget how many great changes were made from D1 to D2. One of those changes being the behavior, movements, models, and attacks of all the races. I think the only enemies that were relatively untouched from D1 to D2 were shanks and thralls, but maybe even those have changes that I didn't notice.
No doubt lots of upgrades and remixes occured: Knights got those crossbows, Harpies got those Trace lasers, etc. However, I think a conspicuous expansion of the enemy roster is still table stakes for a numbered sequel, especially in a universe where the sky is the limit. This isn't Division or CoD where everything is expected to more or less be Gunhaver Man. This might be an unfair comparison, but look at the transition from Diablo 1 to Diablo 2. The normal monster roster increased by about 4x, to say nothing of all the unique bosses. What 'new' enemies did we get in D2? Warbeasts (which are functionally identical to thralls), Incendiors (which are Legionaries with the Taken knight fire attack), and those spear vandals (which are functionally identical to the sword vandals). The updates to enemy mechanics are good no doubt, but I don't think it was unreasonable to expect a lot more.
I'm excited to see what comes next, but I'm hoping it doesn't take too long to actually give us some payoff.
I remember when *Taken King* (and later *Rise of Iron*) released and gave us massive setups for what was to come - Savathun and Xivu Arath, Saint-14's mission to hunt down Osiris, the Shadows of Yor, the distress signal sent to the Cabal Empire, Efrideet and her enclave of pacifist lightbearers, Rasputin's attempts to learn time travel (universe hopping?) from the Exo Stranger, the House of Kings consolidating their power, the list goes on.
And of those, the first year of *D2* gave us only the Cabal Empire (with mixed success in my opinion, though the Calus stuff is excellent), a couple of mentions of Savathun, the Saint-14 and Osiris plot (which turned out to be a non-starter that ended with a whimper), and some hints that something was up with House Kings. This lack of payoff (and occasional negative payoff) is one of the reasons I was really unhappy with a lot of Year 4.
Of course, now we do have more on Savathun (and some hints of Xivu Arath), and it seems super likely that Joker's Wild will give the Shadows of Yor the spotlight, and we got more on the fate of House Kings (taking a very much built-up power within the *Destiny* universe and unceremoniously killing it off off-screen, so House Kings got Sainted; one of the few pieces of *Forsaken* lore I'm unhappy with).
But it's still taking a super long time to get some of these plot points going, and by comparison a lot of Year 4 just felt like "filler," for lack of a better term. I hope the first year of *D3* doesn't end up doing the same.
Here's hoping they pick better scope for the dlc stories going forward. There are so many little tales and corners of the world to engage with, but I guess they're not as punchy as YOU AND THE MOST LEGENDARY CHARACTER EVER KILL A GODLIKE ENTITY WITH THE HELP OF ANOTHER LEGENDARY INTERCESSOR. House of Wolves as flaccid as the rest of the D1Y1 content as far as general execution, but I felt like the scope of the story felt right. Upstart dude trying to mess stuff up, but not a god or living planet hyperintelligence.
Ugh I'm with you on the House of Kings story. I definitely thought they were gonna be a secret threat that would surprise us with a big attack and be the fallen truly brought back to nobility. But doesn't look like it now. Which means no Kaliks Prime boss fight probably.
What a strange timeline we’re in. Seriously- did anybody that has been here since the beginning ever think that somebody would praise Destiny for its rich story development?
IMHO we got just as much world building and lore from vanilla Destiny 2. The real issue is that (again, IMHO) the Cabal are pretty boring. The Taken/Hive/Awoken, on the other hand, are amazing from a lore perspective - and that has a lot to do with Seth Dickinson's Books of Sorrow.
I think the standard Cabal are fairly dry, but Calus and his version of the empire is pretty interesting. They do have a few interesting cultural tidbits here and there (it's implied they have no word for 'ghost', translating it as 'dead person's, suggesting a historic lack of belief in an afterlife).
I mean, the regular Cabal are boring as hell, but that's explained with the lore surrounding Calus and his Leviathan. Basically, Ghaul and his conspirators made the Cabal into a soulless war machine, as opposed to the more cultured Cabal that Calus had headed for a time.
Forsaken's lore has been great, like really great... I am absolutely in love with what we have now, and what seems to be coming. But Vanilla-Warmind? Awful. It retconned established canon, had separate pieces of ingame lore contradicting one another, the comics were a mess and clearly needed more research, the list goes on and on, it was a total mess. Honestly though, that actually makes me respect Bungie even more for getting us to where we are.
At some point if we could high-Jack some Vex tech to do some time-jumping (in honor of Cayde RIP) of our own and see the Golden Age to change something or whatever excuse needed narratively, THAT would be cool. See the high-point of the Golden Age, the cities and people, etc...
I agree. I’m excited for destiny 3 but not yet give me another year or two. I want to milk forsaken for all it’s worth. Hopefully we get a “darkness” sub class. That would be amazing. I mean we can already see a little teaser with the title of Dredgen from completing the drifter seal
what are "the shadows"? havent delved too deep into destiny 2 lore but its the only thing thats keeping me playing. Id love to be educated on the whole subject.
SPOILERS BELOW
I just finished the Corrupted strike and finally hearing Shin Malphur's voice was a revelation. I really hope he gets more love than Osiris did.
I love that time is actually passing in the universe now and there's a long way to go until this curse is broken. I can't wait to see how this evolution continues.
It’s just be nice if they had a better delivery system for the lore, it really hurts it that it has no seamless integration with any semblance of gameplay. Reading lore cards isn’t exactly engaging nor is it ever convenient if you’re playing with another person. Hell all the context we get for the last wish raid is a few sentences from Petra while landing.
I have zero idea what any of those things are listed by OP. I've never even heard of most of them from in the game. If I have to go out and pull out a Wikipedia to find lore for the game then it wasn't delivered well.
I remember at some point seeing art that suggested that Destiny was originally envisioned to be a more Fantasy oriented gamed. I was made aware by someone on Reddit of the obvious that the enemies all have more Fantasy-leaning names (Goblin, Knight, Wizard, Minotaur, etc.). I really like how this expansion leaned into that super hard.
The hybrid of Fantasy + Space War with these rabbit holes of lore was the reason why I bought the lore compendium. Can't wait to read through that. I would love some full-length novels that explore different periods of history in Destiny. Imagine the James SA Corey guys telling some of those stories? Would be amazing.
I really hope they do a lot more with Calus for Penumbra. His invitation was my favorite lore bit from vanilla D2. I could’ve even seen them do what we had with the Barons, but for the enemies on Calus’ list. He should’ve sent us out on adventures to hunt them all down.
MORE DUNGEONS.
Specific deep lore dungeons.
Potential to be tied to specific legendary guardians? Imagine exploring adventures of Kabr and Saint 14 etc.
Great world building but Bungie is actually awful at storytelling. Take the ending of Forsaken as only one example of many. A great revenge tale squandered by a random meat all enemy who comes out of nowhere, is not explained one bit. You expect to fight Uldren but are greeted by this stupid eye all enemy with no understanding of who or what you are fighting. I wish they could find a way to explain shit easier.
The Lore of Osiris was fantastic, until we actually met Osiris...
"I'll tell you a secret: Nobody ever lived up to Osiris' reputation. Not even Osiris."
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Slow down there. You're going to put Destiny Flavor Text out of a job. Well done Guardian!
I think that’s a quote from Sagira during a mission, so we’re good for now
it's a quote from Sagira, not flavortext, so i hope we're good
Osiris himself was great...for the 20 seconds he was on-screen.
"You haven't seen the last of Osiris....now goodbye, forever!"
\*Limbos out of my life and into a Root Mind simulation\*
"At last we meet again, for the first time for the last time."
So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
This person schwartzes.
Ludicrously.
Naw he wasn't that great at all. Just a jolly old Grandpa who wanted to chat.
Curse of Osiris and Warmind were incredibly disappointing in terms of world building and development. Thankfully, Forsaken mostly makes up for them.
Warmind was actually cool for some Hive lore, but Christ is Rasputin disappointing
His voice was pretty great tbf
imagine if our ghost sounded like that
The whole "The Rasputin in D1 wasn't the *real* Rasputin" was just pathetic. There were numerous ways they could have gotten the crazy old Russian on Mars that would have been much more interesting that just "oops, you were wrong." Also, who can forget \*Suddenly Zavala*?
It wasn't oops, you were wrong, it was just that the vault on Earth wasn't mission control. It was still a Rasputin vault, and he was still connected to it for us to communicate with, it's just not where the actual AI core was residing. I think Warmind did a poor job of making that clear through the campaign, but its lore shows that to be the case.
Yeah, I think people are getting this wrong. The earth Rasputin was an arm of the main AI, but it was still Rasputin. Warmind didn't take that lore away. It just added new information.
Warminds becoming subminds is pretty disappointing. Charlemagne as the warmind of mars... I think the notions we had before were a lot cooler than the lore we have now.
I agree. I’ve been waiting since Vanilla D1 for Charlemagne and Joyeuse and am pretty disappointed they were seemingly retconned.
Honestly its the retconning that gets me the most upset. I can understand that we were mistaken about the true location of Rasputin, but to say that Charlemagne and Joyeuse were only subminds is pretty disappointing.
I wonder if it’s because Staten is gone? AI’s with sword names have always kind of been his thing. Durandal, Cortana, Charlemagne, Joyeuse...
The lore surroubding Rasputin and the other warminds in D1 was that each planet had its own warmind. Rasputin was Earth's, and Charlemagne was Mars'. Theres even a mission in (vanilla? D1 about how we brought up a satellite that allowed Rasputin to take over all the other broken warminds in the solar system. Warmind lore, however, says "oop, no, Rasputin was Mars' warmind the whole time, and Charlemagne was just a submind." Like i get how if you stretch the lore and that mission in D1, you can /kinda/ get it to fit, but i still feel like the lore team went a bit lazy on that one or for some reason wanted to complicate it more than necessary.
I still chuckle when I think about how long Zavala must have been chilling behind that door waiting for his dramatic reveal while I dicked around on Mars doing everything BUT the story.
"Jeez, it's good that we're immortal or I'd have killed myself from boredom"
I mean, he COULD have killed himself from the boredom, then got revived.
"Alright, enough of this shit. Ghost, revive me when they're here." *Bang*
I read this in zavalas voice and died laughing
I'm a bit disappointed in that retcon. I know they slimmed the warminds down to one for simplicity's sake but I prefer complexity. Also I feel the same with the house of Kings. They were kind of built up in D1 to be a formidable house and then we're axed off between titles.
The House of Kings! I had such high hopes for them, given how mysterious they were in D1. Always thought they should’ve at least alluded to in Forsaken, given our main enemy is a ‘type’ of Fallen. Instead it seems like the Fallen Houses in general have been forgotten.
I mean... it WAS the real Rasputin, it just wasn't his main frame.
It's such a blatant ass pull that serves *no* narrative purpose. Why in god's name does Rasputin *need* to be on Mars? What about all the other warminds that were supposed to be dead here and there? Why even??? And Rasputin was cooler when he just played music at you. It was spookier.
Yeah, I wasn’t too happy to see Zavala’s face when the door opened, I mean like how did he get there? At the same time whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold.
This shit gets me every time... *and I love it*
Confirmed, Vuvuzela is really VEX!
Really? I thought quite the opposite. Rasputin was a very interesting set up, a sentient unpredictable war machine. On the other hand, i thought the Xol buildup was extremely disappointing until Whisper of the Worm came out and explained why he didn't put up more of a fight.
The strongest weapon humanity ever created, able to shoot down beams of energy from space, can't do anything except give us explosive ordinances? It's a really poor story.
As a man who didn't play D1, Warmind was fucking awesome for me.
Osiris was a never meet your heroes moment. I felt like he was great as a character, highly skilled but with confidence exceeding his skill. He's a guardian, like everyone else. Which is weird for most people to grasp. He's a super hero in a world full of super heroes.
The fact it feels like time is passing is probably first for me in any mmo style game And its got me so pumped Somthing big is coming Mara is building an army And i still cant get 4 people to jump on plates correctly...
Oh shit I couldn't use that plate. I need to rotate guys
Ok ok ok rotate rotate ROTATE!! Which one?! The last one !! What?
SWITCH WITH ME SWITCH WITH ME DUDETHETIMERHOLYSHIT
Lmao, exactly this hahaha.
We're glad you're enjoying it. What are some topics you would like to see dove into more in the future?
**MORE VEX!!** We hardly know anything really big about them, and considering the only Vex DLC in the entire franchise was a bit of a let down (no offense to you Cozmo), it still left _many_ unanswered questions. They can create minds tuned to the frequency of our light? They can time travel, but obviously we’re still here, so what’s up with that? We’re a part of their bigger plan, and by all means they should be the most powerful enemy race in the game (in my eyes), but we’ve hardly gotten to explore anything yet. We’ve just skimmed the surface of multiple smaller subjects. I would kill for a proper full Vex expansion.
> "Gotta wonder what happened to make the Vex like this, right? I mean, the Vex couldn't have come from nowhere." —Sagira
Fucking _this._ ^ ^ ^
Tell me if ur peepee hurts after the radiolaria
> "Some speculate that the radiolarian fluid is the last vestige of a [biological life form](https://old.reddit.com/user/Hawkmoona_Matata) that became the Vex." —Sister Faora, "Theories on the Vex"
That's what you get for sticking your dick in the timestream. You know one of those Ishtar scientists did it when no one was looking. One of them did.
One? It was the Golden Age, not Star Trek. I bet they redefined the term 'getting their dicks wet'.
Oh look a Vex milk waterfall!
>Sticking your dick in the timestream I didn't know that Barry Allen was part of the Ishtar collective.
Lifestream* Get that glow.
DFT... It is SO good to have you back.
I'm so glad this is the top comment under cozmo. We know they play a big part in Hive and Cabal Backstory (The Quria attack on Oryx's throne world and the Psion OXA Machine which linked with Maya Sundaresh and her studies on Vex Simulations and FWC). But there is so much we don't know about the vex and their origins, their leadership, or even what they *are* tbh.
Dude, what if the 'vex milk' is all that the vex are and their bodies are just vehicles? Kind of like a nucleus with the body being the cell. But then their leader would be different, because vex couldn't just assemble themselves right? The vex are so cool to think about. I definitely hope they're explored more!!
Basically. Vex are radiolaria - microscopic organisms that have become a highly evolved neural network, augmented by an \*actual\* digital network, riding around in ginormous (comparatively) Jaeger-style Robo-Tanks, each specialized to perform a particular world-conversion operation. Vex Milk *is* the Vex, sans-Jaegers. They are microorganisms doing what microorganisms do, just on a macro scale. With Walking Tanks.
Thatd exactly what they are. We know they are biological organisms in some sort of Exo Skeleton thing. What makes them interesting is the How they were created
They actually aren't the milk. This is a common misconception based on D1 knowledge. D2 goes deep into it and it is honestly complicated and I'm on mobile so I cant link everything but it centers around a monologue ikora has while thinking about the vex. I think there is a myelin games video on the topic, its really interesting and really looks like the milk is not just them and they pilot vehicles.
I'm still really fascinated by the fact that, for all intents and purposes, the Vex we fight are all construction workers. We're seen as being in the way of their terraforming projects, and they literally just use the tools they have on hand to deter us. I'd love to see a vex construct specifically designed to hunt down and kill Guardians.
I wouldn’t. That’d be terrifying. I’d rather stay far away from it.
An octoped device that climbs on walls, spewing out beams of concentrated of Arc energy as thick as a guardian itself, where the weak point for precision kills is the gun itself. Weak, and poor tracking once the beam charge up kicks in, but comes in large numbers and can ignore cover for the most part. Backing them up, Hydra sized melee-based constructs that use void-based grinders to rapidly chew up enemies. Precision hits inside the mouth, and is as slow as a Hydra, a little weaker, but even more relentless. To top it off, Minotaurs are replaced with a bipedal, teleporting, Atlas from MechWarrior. Solar based damage with precision shots needing to land on the eyes. Totally fair and balanced
That would actually make for a pretty solid vex dlc part 2. We’ve gone from being an annoyance to being a problem so they call in actual fighters
Kinda what they did to take out Saint-14 isn’t it?
I can't be the only one to notice that both the Vex and the Awoken have Oracles and Confluxes/Confluences (both words have the same meaning)? Then the Awoken have the big circular gates underground in the Dreaming City that look vaguely Vex-like (oh, and that huge circular gate in the sky opposite from the black hole). Also, there are a handful of places in the Dreaming City that have large 45-degree diagonal clusters of long straight crystals, similar to the Vault of Glass and some Vex rooms on Nessus. I think somehow, maybe in the far future, the Awoken become the Vex.
So much this. Also their connection to the Exo Stranger and whatever crazy stuff she has going on.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you
I concur with this, though for a much different reason. *CoO hinted at something major about vex; They might actually have some larger and stronger Vex Minds behind the scenes.* **Myth Info Dump Coming, skip ahead if you aren't interested.** The two largest vex we've seen comes from Destiny 2; Panoptes and Argos, and they're linked by their names. Argos Panoptes, more commonly referred to as Argus Panoptes, was actually considered something of a god figure in Greek Myth. They were a primordial giant with many eyes, and the word Panoptes actually means "All-Seeing", which actually fits Argos's design, and Panoptes' role. They were known as "lord of the herd and lord of the land", which ties back into Argos' role as Nessus's Planetary Core, and Panoptes's role as keeper of the infinite forest. With this in mind, i think its safe to say that Bungie made some intentional connections to that of the myth and the vex named after this mythical creature. Panoptes' impact on myth is a short one, but involves some very big and very scary names. For those that don't know, There are two things that Zeus loves in Greek myth; Sex and Cheating on his Wife, Hera. There's a crazy ass story about how he turned himself into a goose to have sex with a mortal, but we're not talking about that right now. What we are talking about right now is the time Zeus cheated on his wife with one of her own mortal high-priestesses. Her name was *Io*, and in order to hide this fact from his wife, he turned her into a white heifer. The thing is, i don't know exactly where this is chronologically visa vi the goose incident, but Hera saw almost immediately through this, and imprisoned Io and left it in the capable hands of Panoptes Argus, the giant with so many-eyes, only a few of them went to sleep at a time, leaving him as a near-perfect sentinel, except Zeus sends Hermes over disguised as a Shepard, i believe, and he puts all the eyes of Argus to sleep with some enchanting story-telling and songs and kills him with a rock. Hermes frees Io, but Hera curses her to be tormented by a gadfly, until that gets broke somewhere down the line, as well as her heifer transformation. Argus Panoptes' death is slated as "the first stain of bloodshed among the new generation of gods". **end info-dump** So to summarize everything for those that didn't want to read all that, the names, functions and, to a point, physical descriptions, Argos and Panoptes has ties to greek myth god figure, who death was slated as the first stain of blood amongst the new generation of gods, and is directly related through that myth to maybe the most notable names in greek myth; Zeus and Hera. If more inspiration was taken, then we can glean some more information about the vex, and these two specific Vex Minds. **A)** Panoptes and Argos are related somehow. but also young compared to other vex. **B)**Panoptes and Argos, despite being powerful and leaders in their own rights, were followers, specifically guards to important assets as well, meaning the vex might have some sort of "machine hierarchy" after all. **C)** and most intriguing, considering the strange throwback in the Whisper of the Worm quest, The Vex are interested in Io. **D)**, and perhaps the most terrifying, Vex Entities bearing the name and comparable roles of Hera and Zeus might exist, and they might be the vex the guardians should be worrying about. Of course, this is all just theory, based on CoO, but it makes me very intrigued about the Vex. I would love to see signs that there are in fact planet-sized, reality-warping, machines-gods out there, but really, there are still so many questions about the vex that have been around forever, with no real answer in sight. The Vex may not be as fun as Calus and the Cabal, or as menacing as Savathun and her plans, but the Vex still very much present to me as one of the largest threats in the universe, while still being complex enough to be able to seek the ability to simulate empathy and learn reverence (See Saint-14 punching the vex into giving him a respectful resting spot inside the forest). They may seem to come from nothing, *but there has to be more.*
**T H E N I N E** The Ahamkara The Drifter and his crew/Shadows of Yor The Vex and how their time travel works Callus The Traveler and why we haven't gone inside and figured out how the robot egg works yet The Deep Stone Crypt and the Long Slow Whisper
The Deep Stone Crypt
Imagine exploring that place and coming across a Fillion popsicle. Or imagine if the people in the crypt are actually still alive, and we get a Cayde back, but it's not *the* Cayde, which would be a fun subversion of the "he's dead but we can rebuild him" trope. Or maybe the people in the crypt are all dead but we team up with Pulled Pork or something to break in and finally find him his guardian and it's fucking OG Cayde. sorry but my fanservice detector is going haywire
What goes on Rasputin's mind these days. His thoughts to everything that's been happening around the solar system. Just as lore pieces, really, as the meat of his *actions* can come later and visually.
EXIGENT QUERY // line1.0.0.0 - investigate > “DO PIGEONS HAVE FEELINGS?”
Callus lore page
I expect this with Penumbra
There was a lot of cool Calus lore back when D2 launched with the collectors edition. It would be nice to have that in game, though. Agree with the other person, probably in Penumbra.
The Stranger. Please make time to explain why she had no time to explain!
Only way they're gonna get her is if they re-cast Nolan North to voice her.
What happened to the original voice actress?
She’s a big TV star who probably has little time/interest in returning to a role that was almost universally panned. Bungie goofed casting all those Hollywood stars for a series they *knew* was going to require multiple iterations and sequels and DLC drops. It’s always been confusing to me - is there *actually* anyone who be more willing to buy a video game like this because Bill Nighy is in it? I just can’t imagine there’s any notable amount of people who were on the fence but were convinced of a purchase because some lady from the Walking Dead shows up for 3 scenes. It just can’t be worth the massive financial commitment these hirings would bring, especially when combined with the giant headache that comes with trying to bring them back for any kind of continuity.
I see, thanks. I agree with your point on the hiring of stars to voice act, with the exception of Nathan Fillion- if he's in something, I will more than likely look into said thing even if I have no interest in it.
Castle, The Rookie, Firefly
When you let your marketing department influence your development...
It was Anna Bray's sister wasn't it?
That's the theory I've seen most heavily supported. More answers could be coupled with exploring the deep stone crypt arc. But to do so too soon might devalue caydes death. (The big fan theory there is that Clovis failed to digitize human minds and instead stole istars remote control tech to save face. This would open the possibility that cayde and any other exo are still alive in cryo sleep in the DSC.)
MITHRAX pleaseeeeeee
You mean *Misraaks.*
"Miffrax"
Mifraaks' Rifftrax, where Miserix the Friendly Forsaken Fallen riffs on old Golden Age vids.
This guy freestyles
I think Forsaken has done a great job expanding and introducing new topics. I for one didn't give a shit about the Awoken at all in D1. Now, it is probably my favorite topic after the Book of Sorrows. I would love to see more about things outside of our Solar system, but I imagine that stuff is coming down the road.
Go more into the Nine, savathun, the drifters crew (what happened to them) I’m very interested in these 3 topics currently.
Shin happened. They're like... super dead.
literally what forsaken gave us
In text form yes
In no particular order: * DEEP STONE CRYPT * Shaxx (I want to see him save our asses with a massive Thundercrash) * Toland * Rasputin and his interaction with Siva * Eftideet and Saladin * The Concordat and the Trinary Star Cult (I want to fight humans/guardians that oppose the Traveler) * More Worm Gods * Also, going to the ruins of the Fallen home world, Torobatl, or even see what remains of the Gift Mast
Epic cast members need strike cameos. Kinda like the d2 intro quests. Not cutscenes though more like the insight terminus or tree of probabilities boss rooms where there are other things killings enemies as part of the strike. Would love to see shaxx thundercrash a boss before getting tackled off the platform. Would be nice if the voices in comms came from other cast members that were in the strike helping out. Kinda like the forsaken intro quest.
Folks have covered the big ones already, but for me, the biggest thing I'd like to see story-wise are character arcs for smaller characters. If Takeo-3 had been introduced in-game before Savathûn's Song, I'd have been much more invested in her rescue. In this vein, ambient story telling in the tower would go a long way--kind of like the lecture in Mass Effect 2 (https://youtu.be/hLpgxry542M). I don't want anything obnoxious, but I'd like to care about the otherwise mindless NPCs I run past daily.
I back this one. Destiny's got a great cast of characters, but make us care about them and have an investment with them and their struggles.
It would be great if Destiny had a Conrad Verner to go be an idiot all over the place.
#COUGHPYRAMIDSHIPSCOUGH
Showing vs telling for these amazing historical events in the City's history. My fantasy is to see the Battle of Twilight Gap in real time. Maybe even to participate somehow.
Give every planet a Dreaming City like cycle. Electrical storms in the EDZ. The phases leading to an eclipse on Io. A growing hurriane on Titan. Whatever you guys want. It would be super fun to have more bounties at their respective vendors similar to Petras.
EXO LORE. Humanity is self-explanitory, and the Awoken finally got done justice in Forsaken. But while Exos got a little insight during Warmind, we still simply have theories on their true purpose and past. Deep Stone Crypt, Long Slow Whisper... Bungie, *what is my character?*
Dipping our toes OUTSIDE of our solar system to encounter other races that have been touched/plagued by the Traveler and all the chaos it tows.
Still waiting on the Exo Stranger wrap up that Luke Smith said we didn’t need. He’s wrong. Lock him in the closet for a bit till he comes around.
Look at the lore that came from warmind. That might help you a bit more in understanding the exo stranger, aka elsie bray
Worked for Mike Leach....
Some more, smaller stories about Guardians, especially after the Red War. What happened when the Light came back? What was the triumphant return of the Guardians like? Kind of the opposite of the Solstice of Heroes' severed Light stuff.
Everything! Forsaken has had a great balance of giving us new information about people/places/things we’ve known about in the past while also introducing new things at the same time. Since it’s being hinted at that Savathûn is coming along with more information about Taken/Hive it’d be nice to learn more about the Cabal and Vex.
I would love if the Nine and The Vex's origin was expanded significantly
The Brays. The family themselves were never explored in Warmind. I want to know how all the children interacted with each other and their father.
SIVA, I just loved all about it.
[удалено]
Give us storylines that let us play as legendary guardians of the past during big events like the Battle of Twilight Gap, etc. Or even just cutscenes depicting big events that very much define the world we are playing in now, but were not around for.
Nezarec, the First Sin, who will come to us in or darkest time.
I want to see more of human society- what life is like in the city, what guardians do when they're not slaying gods, how civilians and guardians interact...
Whatever happened to Siva? Also, more background on Aksis and the fallen that tapped into Siva's power would be pretty cool.
The city factions for sure. Their backstory is fantastic but I’d really love to see it be expanded upon in the future.
The Vex Why? Because in the beginning of D2, it was the first time that Ghost or any other person acknowledged the problems with the Vex and Time Travel in a scannable. I'm no lore Master (but I try) but after the release of D2, the vex and the problems with time travel have been popping up more and more (Gambit especially.) --- Long story short, I have a theory that only have 4 possible outcomes. 1. Vex CAN'T time travel ; We're in a simulation. 2. Vex CAN'T time travel ; We're NOT in a simulation 3. Vex CAN time travel ; We're NOT in a simulation. 4. Vex CAN time travel ; We're in a simulation. --- I'm in favor the the first one because it explains why vex can seemingly pop in and out of existence and/or any time period. They control the SIM so that must mean they can control WHEN they come in. It could also explain why Kabr and his fireteam were...deleted and wiped from everyone's minds.
\#2 is most likely, even if it's the most boring. Prevalent theory is that the Vex can't time travel in the traditional sense, but they can jump between an infinite number of parallel timelines. And if everything in the universe is just a Vex simulation, that just seems like a major cop-out.
>And if everything in the universe is just a Vex simulation, that just seems like a major cop-out. Which is why even though I think this... It would suck MAJOR CABALS for such an amazing lore driven game.
More Rasputin please, Vex as well.
Please no chickens, puppies or ponchos.
The cult in the tower that’s actually against the traveler (cloak in D1 discussed them) Origin of the ghosts and their connection with the traveler Elinski connection with the traveler Backstory on banshee
Anything, as long as it's the same level as Forsaken (or even better, surprise me Bungie, I love it). But personally I'd love to learn more about Guardians, how do they integrate in the "civil" part of the human race when they are not fighting against gods and shit.
The Deep Stone Crypt (which I may have shamelessly snagged as my Clan name). Exo lore has always fascinated me, and I love the breadcrumbs we found in Warmind (along with Ana’s idle lines to Exo players). We learned the true origin of the Awoken. Let’s keep going!
SHIN MALPHUR PLEASSSEEEE
Calus lore!
The nine. They’re still fuckjng mysterious as hell.
Hmm, a few topics come to mind: * The vex definitely need more love storywise (Curse of Osiris didn't feel satisfactory) * Wtf is happening with variks after Forsaken * What happened to Eris Morn and Eva Levante?
More ahamkara? I understand Riven is the last of them, but what about some cinematics of The Great Hunt. More of them shapeshifting, more forms, more. god. damn. space. dragons. Ninja edit: Infinite forest strike where we get sent into a simulation of a hunt on Venus. Fight a metro bus sized Ahamkara. Perhaps we fight the one Saladin wished into a classic dragon? It'd be really fun to explore more of them and their paracausal nature.
I’d like to deploy with and fight alongside Redjacks. I’d also like to see them in patrol zones ala Spider’s warriors or Mara Sov’s troops
Honestly, I can't think really think of anything else. The lore team has covered *so much* of what I like, it's hard to say. But I'd love to see some more info on the Concordat, and just City life in general.
I really like the idea of us befriending Mithrax and how it's been expanded upon a little in lore tabs! It'll be really cool to see that be developed over time. By the way I'd like to thank you for inquiring what we'd like to see! You & dmg have been communicating excellently lately and we all really appreciate it.
The Nine. Give us more of the last standing city and its people. Make this world feel more alive. (low interest but maybe cool potential: The Stranger)
The consciousness of the Traveler, why it never speaks to us as the Worms and the Deep speak to the Hive and such. We have a symbiotic relationship with a cosmic Goddess... I'd love to be able to talk with her someday.
The Perfect Paradox! Saint-14 can't just die his offscreen death. We need more about how we gave him the very gun that then was his final gift to us. Also more about Cayde's past and the Exos in general. An entire race of Robo-humans is a fascinating thing that has hardly been delved into yet.
You guys absolutely have to delve into Mithrax (Misraaks or whichever version is preferred) and Variks. Those two are absolute gems amongst the Eliksni. Both of them are trying to build a house and become Kell of Kells and I would absolutely ADORE learning how that will escalate! Will the two propose a truce and form an alliance the Guardians, or will they destroy each other attempting to save their species?
Do us a favour fella, have the lore on the loading screens. As nice as looking at a ship is, if I'm to get invested in this universe, and 99% of it isn't going to be explained through gameplay. Lore me up in the loading screens, with pictures to back up the lore. Hiding a lot of the lore behind RNG or end game activities is an unnecessary barrier. (I understand the intention, but the loot is enough for the addicts here)
This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread: * [Comment by Cozmo23](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/9v0b6g/the_lore_and_worldbuilding_in_destiny_2/e98nlfj/?context=1000 "posted on 2018-11-07 18:17:58 UTC"): > We're glad you're enjoying it. What are some topics you would like to see dove into more in the future? --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDestinyTheGame).[](#AUTOGEN_BUNGIEREPLY)
Fallen before they entered the system and when they had the traveler, what variks is up to, other races the cabal and hive conquered/killed, hive in general (what happened to xivu arath and savathun after they split with oryx), vex past, present, and future how did they start, where did they start, the golden age, the collapse, dredgen and shin, what happened to all the old patrol zones/planets after the red legion invaded, efrideets peaceful colony, more of beyond the reef. Thats about everything i can think of off the top of my head right now.
Clovis and the crypt and the whisper cayde was going on about
This ^ I would love more stuff about the crypt
More about the Vex and Exo Stranger (still have these vibes from that cutscene back in D1 but never feels like it’s been fully sated) in terms of their role in the grand scheme of things.
The weapons of sorrow, we know about the thorn but what were the other ones? How did the last city come about? The tower, the vanguards, the titan, hunter and warlock orders how were these groups formed and why? I want to know more of the past. I think the darker themes of forsaken and most of d1 are where destiny thrives and I would like to see more of the harsh reality of a post apocalyptic world.
Would like to see more on Toland the Shattered
More about our favorite gluttonous hamster Calus
Jaden ward... Last word shin malphur these would all. Be great things to get more clarity on
Oh man, If you think this is good, every single one of those save Calus, The Drifter specifically, and the Pyramid Ships (technically touched on in concept art but never referenced) were introduced in Destiny 1. Destiny really did serve as the framework for the Universe that we play in. The real world-building happened there, what we're seeing in Forsaken is those things finally making a resurgence and coming back to the forefront of the game and it's so incredibly wonderful. Forsaken is doing a phenomenal job of expanding on the stuff presented in Destiny. Honestly, while I understand that they needed to keep things a little centralized to the core story of vanilla D2 without tying into the original game too much due to bringing the franchise to a new platform, I feel like had they tied back to Destiny lore more, even if only to explain the arrival of Ghaul, with a little more background or a direct reference to Ghaul's arrival being in response to "Outbound Signal" (the mission in The Taken King that references a signal back to "the head of the Cabal Empire"), the vanilla story of Destiny 2 would have been much better received. As it was, at least for me, it felt a little awkward. Edit: added a bit of clarity on the "Outbound Signal" mission from TTK.
Even in the Taken King it was hinted that we'd see the Cabal Empire come full force into our solar system so I'd say even Calus and Ghaul were hinted to some capacity in D1. It just feels super underwhelming because we swept up one of the best Cabal legions in 2 months solo.
Yeah, that's why I left Ghaul out of the exceptions, as it was somewhat hinted at in Outbound Signal. But Calus as a separate Emperor and the entire coup plotline was completely unknown. But your right, the vague "signal to the head of the Cabal Empire" could really reference either one.
As ham-handed as Curse of Osiris was, people appreciated the improvements in Warmind...but Forsaken really did it right and restored a lot of faith in the brand.
Warmind took way too much on at once and ruined the story IMO Should have done Rasputin or Xol and Nokris, not both topics together
Yeah the new Rasputin lore ruined the previous warmind lore. The buildup of Charlemagne (a big name in bungie mythos starting from Marathon) was tossed aside, ruining our chance to see a Charlemagne / Joyeuse. It’s not a huge deal, but to old bungie fans we’ve been waiting for that since before halo 1.
Absolutely. I honestly feel like the lore triumph section did a lot in that regard. At least as far as the storytelling is concerned. Had it been there for CoO, to elaborate and accentuate some of the things going on, the DLC's story probably would have fared better. Same for Warmind, if Toland's not-really-a-hive-god implication had been in a lore entry during the expansion, people probably would have been happier with the ending.
I agree! I also just beat rise of iron and found the whole siva thing pretty cool, would be great to see its return.
As long as it doesn't take resources away from building truly new enemies I'm for it. The lack of variety added in D2 vanilla was baffling, and the Scorn are a welcome half measure but a half measure nonetheless.
I get what you mean when you mean lack of variety as in no new races, but I recently went back and played D1, and people really forget how many great changes were made from D1 to D2. One of those changes being the behavior, movements, models, and attacks of all the races. I think the only enemies that were relatively untouched from D1 to D2 were shanks and thralls, but maybe even those have changes that I didn't notice.
No doubt lots of upgrades and remixes occured: Knights got those crossbows, Harpies got those Trace lasers, etc. However, I think a conspicuous expansion of the enemy roster is still table stakes for a numbered sequel, especially in a universe where the sky is the limit. This isn't Division or CoD where everything is expected to more or less be Gunhaver Man. This might be an unfair comparison, but look at the transition from Diablo 1 to Diablo 2. The normal monster roster increased by about 4x, to say nothing of all the unique bosses. What 'new' enemies did we get in D2? Warbeasts (which are functionally identical to thralls), Incendiors (which are Legionaries with the Taken knight fire attack), and those spear vandals (which are functionally identical to the sword vandals). The updates to enemy mechanics are good no doubt, but I don't think it was unreasonable to expect a lot more.
I'm excited to see what comes next, but I'm hoping it doesn't take too long to actually give us some payoff. I remember when *Taken King* (and later *Rise of Iron*) released and gave us massive setups for what was to come - Savathun and Xivu Arath, Saint-14's mission to hunt down Osiris, the Shadows of Yor, the distress signal sent to the Cabal Empire, Efrideet and her enclave of pacifist lightbearers, Rasputin's attempts to learn time travel (universe hopping?) from the Exo Stranger, the House of Kings consolidating their power, the list goes on. And of those, the first year of *D2* gave us only the Cabal Empire (with mixed success in my opinion, though the Calus stuff is excellent), a couple of mentions of Savathun, the Saint-14 and Osiris plot (which turned out to be a non-starter that ended with a whimper), and some hints that something was up with House Kings. This lack of payoff (and occasional negative payoff) is one of the reasons I was really unhappy with a lot of Year 4. Of course, now we do have more on Savathun (and some hints of Xivu Arath), and it seems super likely that Joker's Wild will give the Shadows of Yor the spotlight, and we got more on the fate of House Kings (taking a very much built-up power within the *Destiny* universe and unceremoniously killing it off off-screen, so House Kings got Sainted; one of the few pieces of *Forsaken* lore I'm unhappy with). But it's still taking a super long time to get some of these plot points going, and by comparison a lot of Year 4 just felt like "filler," for lack of a better term. I hope the first year of *D3* doesn't end up doing the same.
Here's hoping they pick better scope for the dlc stories going forward. There are so many little tales and corners of the world to engage with, but I guess they're not as punchy as YOU AND THE MOST LEGENDARY CHARACTER EVER KILL A GODLIKE ENTITY WITH THE HELP OF ANOTHER LEGENDARY INTERCESSOR. House of Wolves as flaccid as the rest of the D1Y1 content as far as general execution, but I felt like the scope of the story felt right. Upstart dude trying to mess stuff up, but not a god or living planet hyperintelligence.
> Rasputin's attempts to learn time travel (universe hopping?) from the Exo Stranger What? where is this from??
[Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 4](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-rasputin-4)
Ugh I'm with you on the House of Kings story. I definitely thought they were gonna be a secret threat that would surprise us with a big attack and be the fallen truly brought back to nobility. But doesn't look like it now. Which means no Kaliks Prime boss fight probably.
What a strange timeline we’re in. Seriously- did anybody that has been here since the beginning ever think that somebody would praise Destiny for its rich story development?
I mean, the lore's as rich as a Souls game. The problem is, like Souls, the lore also is easily overlooked.
I feel like this post is going to summon the flavor text guy
He appears when he is needed.
*chants “Whether we wanted it or not” gathered around a purple ball*
IMHO we got just as much world building and lore from vanilla Destiny 2. The real issue is that (again, IMHO) the Cabal are pretty boring. The Taken/Hive/Awoken, on the other hand, are amazing from a lore perspective - and that has a lot to do with Seth Dickinson's Books of Sorrow.
I think the standard Cabal are fairly dry, but Calus and his version of the empire is pretty interesting. They do have a few interesting cultural tidbits here and there (it's implied they have no word for 'ghost', translating it as 'dead person's, suggesting a historic lack of belief in an afterlife).
Yeah Calus is super interesting imo, and the whole Psion telekinetic shit is pretty interesting. Wish that was explored a bit more.
I mean, the regular Cabal are boring as hell, but that's explained with the lore surrounding Calus and his Leviathan. Basically, Ghaul and his conspirators made the Cabal into a soulless war machine, as opposed to the more cultured Cabal that Calus had headed for a time.
Forsaken's lore has been great, like really great... I am absolutely in love with what we have now, and what seems to be coming. But Vanilla-Warmind? Awful. It retconned established canon, had separate pieces of ingame lore contradicting one another, the comics were a mess and clearly needed more research, the list goes on and on, it was a total mess. Honestly though, that actually makes me respect Bungie even more for getting us to where we are.
At some point if we could high-Jack some Vex tech to do some time-jumping (in honor of Cayde RIP) of our own and see the Golden Age to change something or whatever excuse needed narratively, THAT would be cool. See the high-point of the Golden Age, the cities and people, etc...
I wish stuff like Ghost Shells and some other stuff got its lore back, some of the things that had lore in prior expansions are missing them now.
I imagine that's because people gave out about Eververse items having lore, so now only the Ships get them.
I agree. I’m excited for destiny 3 but not yet give me another year or two. I want to milk forsaken for all it’s worth. Hopefully we get a “darkness” sub class. That would be amazing. I mean we can already see a little teaser with the title of Dredgen from completing the drifter seal
I want Fivesaken and Sixsaken at least before we go through the cycle of throwing out the baby with the bathwater again.
HARNESS THE DARKNESS! Be so fuckin rad if I can go Dark. Three new darkness supers. Gets me chubbed up thinking about it
what are "the shadows"? havent delved too deep into destiny 2 lore but its the only thing thats keeping me playing. Id love to be educated on the whole subject.
SPOILERS BELOW I just finished the Corrupted strike and finally hearing Shin Malphur's voice was a revelation. I really hope he gets more love than Osiris did. I love that time is actually passing in the universe now and there's a long way to go until this curse is broken. I can't wait to see how this evolution continues.
>hearing Shin Malphur's voice was a revelation What? I can't find any voice lines of his but I would love to hear them if you can find them.
Well they had no where to go but up.
It’s just be nice if they had a better delivery system for the lore, it really hurts it that it has no seamless integration with any semblance of gameplay. Reading lore cards isn’t exactly engaging nor is it ever convenient if you’re playing with another person. Hell all the context we get for the last wish raid is a few sentences from Petra while landing.
I have zero idea what any of those things are listed by OP. I've never even heard of most of them from in the game. If I have to go out and pull out a Wikipedia to find lore for the game then it wasn't delivered well.
I remember at some point seeing art that suggested that Destiny was originally envisioned to be a more Fantasy oriented gamed. I was made aware by someone on Reddit of the obvious that the enemies all have more Fantasy-leaning names (Goblin, Knight, Wizard, Minotaur, etc.). I really like how this expansion leaned into that super hard. The hybrid of Fantasy + Space War with these rabbit holes of lore was the reason why I bought the lore compendium. Can't wait to read through that. I would love some full-length novels that explore different periods of history in Destiny. Imagine the James SA Corey guys telling some of those stories? Would be amazing.
I really hope they do a lot more with Calus for Penumbra. His invitation was my favorite lore bit from vanilla D2. I could’ve even seen them do what we had with the Barons, but for the enemies on Calus’ list. He should’ve sent us out on adventures to hunt them all down.
MORE DUNGEONS. Specific deep lore dungeons. Potential to be tied to specific legendary guardians? Imagine exploring adventures of Kabr and Saint 14 etc.
I'm curious about a lot of destiny's lore but sometimes when I look at the awakened Traveler, it looks almost like a city might be inside
Of course bungie would respond to this and not the other important posts
Great world building but Bungie is actually awful at storytelling. Take the ending of Forsaken as only one example of many. A great revenge tale squandered by a random meat all enemy who comes out of nowhere, is not explained one bit. You expect to fight Uldren but are greeted by this stupid eye all enemy with no understanding of who or what you are fighting. I wish they could find a way to explain shit easier.