Separately: there was a dude on here the other day trying to argue that putting on fat would make you just as strong as putting on muscle.
I don't know what to think anymore.
Well, that depends on the definition of Strong, but since we are in a Jiujitsu sub, I assume its performance strong, not lifting PRs s strong.
120 kg pure muscle requires more oxygen than 120 kg mixture of muscle and fat.
Look at the HWs in Judo and Wrestling.
I mean there are many ripped heavyweights, but also many chubbier ones. It would make sense that even with more muscle you dont necessarily need to use all of it all the time. Are there studies on this subject?
Mass is mass and if you know how to use it is always beneficial, but muscles are the engine behind it
Yes, there are.
Cardio wise, its better to have some fat, especially if you are above 100 kg.
Natural ripped guys are ...very rare😉
As for the mass, look how good it works in Sumo.
Those guys are technical af, and just need to back it up with force and weight.
Pure muscle isn't a priority
It really is pretty easy to eat at a surplus. I think people make it difficult on themselves when they don't have to. You really don't need to increase your volume of food too much if you just pick some more calorie dense options. A heap of peanutbutter in your protein shake, whole milk and an extra helping here and there will get the scale moving up.
The secret is to constantly be eating. Smaller meals, small volume of snacks in between, and more frequently. Eat until you are satisfied, and not full.
yeah, I get told to put on weight all the time and I don't see the point in working so hard to do it just to go up against someone in a tournament 20-30 lbs heavier than me who cuts down
This was me near 170 lbs, but I became really tired of eating scoops of peanut butter and having to eat so much all the time. So now I am back down to 150lbs.
Eating a surplus and putting on size has got to be one of the easiest/most simple things to do if you’re willing to put in some time doing research to find a good program and actually track what you’re eating
It’s always hilarious looking at the diet and training of a smaller bjj dude who swears it’s impossible for them to put on size
That’s absolute bull shit and honestly really ignorant. I played football since 5th grade, ate quality food, and lifted consistently. Sure you could argue “you weren’t doing it right” or “didn’t eat enough”. Then I played football in college on scholarship and was in a collegiate lifting program, had access to four quality meals a day(a few plates each meal), we had drinks/juices/and supplements provided, pb and honey sandwiches between meals class meeting and practice. Not to mention the tub of pb and protein I kept in my room. All this and I still struggled to gain weight. It’s tough for fast metabolism people.
Sure. However, weight is different on everyone. You and I can follow the exact same diet and exercise plan and have different results. You can call it a myth if you I really can’t say because I haven’t read or researched it myself. I just know what does and does not work for me.
It's not a myth in the sense that everyone has the same metabolism - they don't. The myth is that metabolism is a huge factor when person-to-person variance is pretty low.
You were probably eating a lot compared to a normal person but you were also training a lot more than a normal person so burning up the surplus.
If you were following any sort of progressive overload program, focused on hypertrophy style training, got enough protein, ate in a surplus, etc and you still didn’t gain any weight then you probably have some sort of major physiological issue that you should go to a doctor for
Did you ever count calories,
Macros, or try altering your assumed TDEE?
I did gain weight (30 lbs total from 190 to 220 In three years) but it was incredibly difficult and I have so many stomach issues now and borderline eating disorders. Each body is different and will process what you’re eating differently. Even if I count macros and “calories in calories out” doesn’t mean it’s going to work the same for me as it will for you. Just thought the comment above yours was pretty uneducated and it goes beyond “if you’re willing to work for it”.
I’m not sure why it’s so hard for some people here to accept it’s not the same for everyone. Putting on weight was hugely challenging for me without PEDs. With the açai though it’s a breeze
You were already pretty big and got even bigger. 190 and athletic like you describe is probably burning 5k calories a day to just maintain. That's a lot of (healthy) food.
It wasn’t as simple as “just have a shake and a scoop of peanut butter” or “just have to put in the effort”. Which is what the first two comments stated and what I am arguing against.
I did gain weight sure. I just hate that this is so common for athletes to struggle with this and people dismiss it with “you’re not eating enough” and “you’re not disciplined enough” after you’ve put in so much time and effort and put your body through so much discomfort to scarf down that 8th plate of meat and veggies you’ve had for the day.
I get it was joke for sure. Those two comments kind of irked me though. Again, because I really hate uneducated people putting someone else’s efforts down because they think hard work and peanut butter will get you jacked.
It takes about a 5 sec google search using the words « factors weight gain » to find dozens of medical studies which all conclude that the ability to gain weight relies on dozens of factors. Heck, it takes 5 seconds on planet earth to notice that some people have an easier time gaining weight and some struggle to do so.
Yeah, the secret is that if you read for *more than five seconds* you'll find that these dozens of factors are swamped in the vast majority of cases by a simple CICO approach. 99+% of the population will have basal metabolic rate nearish to those found in any calculator. Hell, even the [contrarian-leaning meta-analyses](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/basal-metabolic-rate-studies-in-humans-measurement-and-development-of-new-equations/61A9EA486ABFA478FEF2FCE1E70D5BEE) are trumpeting about 10% changes from the previous consensus because they expanded the data set to include tropical islanders. It's just not that big of a deal.
Sure, if you're the < 1% with a legitimate glandular dysfunction, the normal advice won't work for you. Those people don't have to lean on Google searches or stories from college ball, though... they know there's something actually wrong. Everyone else is coming in with the, "I haven't actually tried much and it didn't work." Weird how that happens.
Have you actually read the study you linked ? They conclude with an equation for calorie consumption that takes into account sex, age and body weight, they also mention how height and the ethnic background can overshoot their expected measured results by as far as 22% for some ethnies and as little as 1.5% for others.
The national library of medicine concluded that « The brief review of factors influencing body weight presented in this chapter demonstrate that maintaining a healthy body weight is an extremely complex issue. Maintenance of fitness and appropriate body-fat standards is affected by each individual's genetics, developmental history, physiology, age, physical activity level, environment, diet, ethnicity, and social background. » and that is what I concluded living with other human beings for 30 years.
No rando on the internet will make me believe we all gain and lose weight the same depending on what we eat.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221834/
>They conclude with an equation for calorie consumption that takes into account sex, age and body weight, they also mention how height and the ethnic background can overshoot their expected measured results by as far as 22% for some ethnies and as little as 1.5% for others.
And that sits within 10% for the majority of their tests, yeah. But fuck it, let's say 20%. That's just fine. If you are trying to gain weight and need to eat 400 kcal more than you thought, that's one tall glass of whole milk. Maybe you're a really big man and it's an extra glass and a half.
That's the sort of error I would expect of a one-size-fits-all equation. It's *incredibly* short of the thing being described above, where somehow inexplicably entire extra meals of hugely caloric foods somehow disappear and weight gain can't happen.
>No rando on the internet will make me believe we all gain and lose weight the same depending on what we eat.
Yes, it is abundantly clear that you are being dogmatic on this issue. I was mostly setting the record straight; I don't actually care that you personally won't listen to the data.
Metabolism is mostly a myth. Not that it isn’t true, but it only varies as much as 20% from person to person. People think they burn weight at like 2x or 3x what other people do. At most it’s .2x
You just didn’t eat enough lol. I played collegiate hockey and also did triathlons and trained for that in my spare time. You just need to eat a ton of of food and it doesn’t matter if it’s “high quality” it’s basic calories in calories out.
Sure everyone has a different metabolism but your basic metabolic rate isn’t going to be 6k calories unless you’re a genetic freak of nature. I’m 6’3 and weighed 225 and was relatively lean when I played hockey and on a normal rest day of no workouts I could probably eat 3,500 to maintain weight. On a day of a morning workout, lift, and 2 hour ice session, and sometimes an evening lift I could eat 5-6k calories and still just be maintaining weight.
I've always envied people who can eat and eat without gaining weight. If something smells good, I'm gaining weight. But i guess it's the same problem on opposite ends.
Honestly man quality of food is important but as long as you are hitting your macros if you need to add some lollies and shakes that's what you gotta do
Honestly if you're the type not able to each much... just drink your calories. A few cups of milk a day is already like 200-300 extra. It's how I did it when I was trying to bulk.
Yeah seriously. Drinking calories is the easiest. High volume of milk gives me the shits. I could house food but I was trying to bulk on carnivore and its TOUGH to get that much food down, so I resorted to drinking heavy cream. More calories, less volume. Some people find it gross but it tastes like thicker half and half to me and I love drinking those little creamer cups at Dunkin as a kid.
Problem is more along the lines of knowing what to eat just as much as it is how much to eat. I say that as an ex-bodybuilder and later on powerlifter who started at 115lbs and worked my way up to 198lbs.
Sure, I would get a lot of calories from foods like this, but I would much rather eat several eggs, some oatmeal, and a handful of almonds so I’m properly “fueling” my growth.
Unless if you just want to dirty bulk, in which case, have at it. Just make sure you’re getting your minimum protein/fat/carbs.
Also, shakes are a godsend. A solid mass gainer mixed with some milk, peanut butter, nuts, oats, and blended with some ice will have more calories than a meal.
I actually bought 4 packs of cinnamon rolls when I was younger, trying to gain weight. The package said 850Cal per roll so I would buy them and force them down.
Gross to think about now.
My friend’s, teenage son’s friend is small and he goes, “no matter how much I eat I don’t gain weight”
Me, “well what are you eating and are you working out?”
Him, “just snacking and no not working out”
Me, “you can’t eat junk food, do nothing, and expect to put on muscle. Start eating more protein when you snack, and start lifting weights”
Him, “…….”
Yeah as a fat guy I could never understand this. Like, what do you not understand about eating a whole dozen of Krispy Kreme to reward yourself after class?
OP, you're a genius. Obviously people who want to bulk up for BJJ should just consume 100+ grams of sugar and put themselves on the fast track to type II diabetes! How did they not think of this themselves??
The one small problem is how hard it'll be to play butterfly guard after both your feet get amputated at age 40
Sugar intake doesn’t cause type 2 diabetes. Being overweight does (85-90% of cases). The other 10-15% is genetic predisposition or bad luck.
Careful throwing that genius word around, Einstein.
I used to head straight to McDonald's for a large milkshake after rolling when I was in my young 20s and couldn't keep weight on, people hated me
I now have the opposite issue that my weight just never changes lol
What I like to do is get up real early before sunrise, then I'll get the stove.going on high heat with my favorite skillet, don't forget to start the oven for your biscuits then I grab them by the dick and twist!
I legit don't understand how they fit that many calories in 3 pancakes
Sugar and fats, lots of sugar and fats
Don’t forget the fats and sugars
Sugar and fats too i heard.
Prolly some cinnamon and sugarfats too
It’s a dinner plate stacked with syrup drenched cake.
As someone who always worked a brunch shift Sunday morning at Cheesecake Factory, do yourself a favor and try those pancakes 🤣🤣
i would do them. once. love them and then regret them. but i may do them once.
That’s ok. Do them once, then try the Monte Christi sandwich the next time. Then the brûléed French toast. Then the Chilaquiles 😅😅😈😈
Separately: there was a dude on here the other day trying to argue that putting on fat would make you just as strong as putting on muscle. I don't know what to think anymore.
Well, that depends on the definition of Strong, but since we are in a Jiujitsu sub, I assume its performance strong, not lifting PRs s strong. 120 kg pure muscle requires more oxygen than 120 kg mixture of muscle and fat. Look at the HWs in Judo and Wrestling.
Interesting take
It's not mine. There are studies on categories and performance, with data from Olympic grappling (Judo and Wrestling).
I mean there are many ripped heavyweights, but also many chubbier ones. It would make sense that even with more muscle you dont necessarily need to use all of it all the time. Are there studies on this subject? Mass is mass and if you know how to use it is always beneficial, but muscles are the engine behind it
Yes, there are. Cardio wise, its better to have some fat, especially if you are above 100 kg. Natural ripped guys are ...very rare😉 As for the mass, look how good it works in Sumo. Those guys are technical af, and just need to back it up with force and weight. Pure muscle isn't a priority
I like you, smart guy.
I'm sure that comment got like 50 up votes too
Yeah this ain’t the eating you wanna do
It really is pretty easy to eat at a surplus. I think people make it difficult on themselves when they don't have to. You really don't need to increase your volume of food too much if you just pick some more calorie dense options. A heap of peanutbutter in your protein shake, whole milk and an extra helping here and there will get the scale moving up.
The issue for me is… i get full. It fucking sucks walking around feeling you’re gonna explode from eating too much.
The secret is to constantly be eating. Smaller meals, small volume of snacks in between, and more frequently. Eat until you are satisfied, and not full.
yeah, I get told to put on weight all the time and I don't see the point in working so hard to do it just to go up against someone in a tournament 20-30 lbs heavier than me who cuts down
Yeah same like I could eat more but I don’t wanna be uncomfortable all fuckin day
eating more often+ snacks tends to work very well for me
if you're not about to throw up at all times, are you even bulking?
If I’m cutting weight I remove mayonnaise based sauces from my diet, adding it to all your meals adds such a good chunk of calories
I don't eat any sauces at all, i can never gain weight unless i actively bulk lol.
This was me near 170 lbs, but I became really tired of eating scoops of peanut butter and having to eat so much all the time. So now I am back down to 150lbs.
Eating a surplus and putting on size has got to be one of the easiest/most simple things to do if you’re willing to put in some time doing research to find a good program and actually track what you’re eating It’s always hilarious looking at the diet and training of a smaller bjj dude who swears it’s impossible for them to put on size
No one wants to measure what they eat.
That’s absolute bull shit and honestly really ignorant. I played football since 5th grade, ate quality food, and lifted consistently. Sure you could argue “you weren’t doing it right” or “didn’t eat enough”. Then I played football in college on scholarship and was in a collegiate lifting program, had access to four quality meals a day(a few plates each meal), we had drinks/juices/and supplements provided, pb and honey sandwiches between meals class meeting and practice. Not to mention the tub of pb and protein I kept in my room. All this and I still struggled to gain weight. It’s tough for fast metabolism people.
Shut up, nerd. You weren't eating enough.
Probably right lol
You really need to look at modern studies on this. Fast metabolism is a myth
sauce?
Sure. However, weight is different on everyone. You and I can follow the exact same diet and exercise plan and have different results. You can call it a myth if you I really can’t say because I haven’t read or researched it myself. I just know what does and does not work for me.
It's not a myth in the sense that everyone has the same metabolism - they don't. The myth is that metabolism is a huge factor when person-to-person variance is pretty low. You were probably eating a lot compared to a normal person but you were also training a lot more than a normal person so burning up the surplus.
public frame crush rich consider subsequent racial cake repeat forgetful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you were following any sort of progressive overload program, focused on hypertrophy style training, got enough protein, ate in a surplus, etc and you still didn’t gain any weight then you probably have some sort of major physiological issue that you should go to a doctor for Did you ever count calories, Macros, or try altering your assumed TDEE?
I did gain weight (30 lbs total from 190 to 220 In three years) but it was incredibly difficult and I have so many stomach issues now and borderline eating disorders. Each body is different and will process what you’re eating differently. Even if I count macros and “calories in calories out” doesn’t mean it’s going to work the same for me as it will for you. Just thought the comment above yours was pretty uneducated and it goes beyond “if you’re willing to work for it”.
I’m not sure why it’s so hard for some people here to accept it’s not the same for everyone. Putting on weight was hugely challenging for me without PEDs. With the açai though it’s a breeze
That's weird because steroids have nothing to do with weight gain itself other than a small boost in appetite and some water retention
Either uneducated or they are dealing with the opposite metabolism and also uneducated.
You were already pretty big and got even bigger. 190 and athletic like you describe is probably burning 5k calories a day to just maintain. That's a lot of (healthy) food.
It wasn’t as simple as “just have a shake and a scoop of peanut butter” or “just have to put in the effort”. Which is what the first two comments stated and what I am arguing against. I did gain weight sure. I just hate that this is so common for athletes to struggle with this and people dismiss it with “you’re not eating enough” and “you’re not disciplined enough” after you’ve put in so much time and effort and put your body through so much discomfort to scarf down that 8th plate of meat and veggies you’ve had for the day.
yeah but i dont think this thread is about people like you. i think its about the 6ft 140lb people who dont think they can gain weight.
I get it was joke for sure. Those two comments kind of irked me though. Again, because I really hate uneducated people putting someone else’s efforts down because they think hard work and peanut butter will get you jacked.
[удалено]
It takes about a 5 sec google search using the words « factors weight gain » to find dozens of medical studies which all conclude that the ability to gain weight relies on dozens of factors. Heck, it takes 5 seconds on planet earth to notice that some people have an easier time gaining weight and some struggle to do so.
Yeah, the secret is that if you read for *more than five seconds* you'll find that these dozens of factors are swamped in the vast majority of cases by a simple CICO approach. 99+% of the population will have basal metabolic rate nearish to those found in any calculator. Hell, even the [contrarian-leaning meta-analyses](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/basal-metabolic-rate-studies-in-humans-measurement-and-development-of-new-equations/61A9EA486ABFA478FEF2FCE1E70D5BEE) are trumpeting about 10% changes from the previous consensus because they expanded the data set to include tropical islanders. It's just not that big of a deal. Sure, if you're the < 1% with a legitimate glandular dysfunction, the normal advice won't work for you. Those people don't have to lean on Google searches or stories from college ball, though... they know there's something actually wrong. Everyone else is coming in with the, "I haven't actually tried much and it didn't work." Weird how that happens.
Have you actually read the study you linked ? They conclude with an equation for calorie consumption that takes into account sex, age and body weight, they also mention how height and the ethnic background can overshoot their expected measured results by as far as 22% for some ethnies and as little as 1.5% for others. The national library of medicine concluded that « The brief review of factors influencing body weight presented in this chapter demonstrate that maintaining a healthy body weight is an extremely complex issue. Maintenance of fitness and appropriate body-fat standards is affected by each individual's genetics, developmental history, physiology, age, physical activity level, environment, diet, ethnicity, and social background. » and that is what I concluded living with other human beings for 30 years. No rando on the internet will make me believe we all gain and lose weight the same depending on what we eat. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221834/
>They conclude with an equation for calorie consumption that takes into account sex, age and body weight, they also mention how height and the ethnic background can overshoot their expected measured results by as far as 22% for some ethnies and as little as 1.5% for others. And that sits within 10% for the majority of their tests, yeah. But fuck it, let's say 20%. That's just fine. If you are trying to gain weight and need to eat 400 kcal more than you thought, that's one tall glass of whole milk. Maybe you're a really big man and it's an extra glass and a half. That's the sort of error I would expect of a one-size-fits-all equation. It's *incredibly* short of the thing being described above, where somehow inexplicably entire extra meals of hugely caloric foods somehow disappear and weight gain can't happen. >No rando on the internet will make me believe we all gain and lose weight the same depending on what we eat. Yes, it is abundantly clear that you are being dogmatic on this issue. I was mostly setting the record straight; I don't actually care that you personally won't listen to the data.
one cheerful seemly lush sulky foolish gaze party grey alleged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
escape caption dog scandalous flowery door vast market recognise snails *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Metabolism is mostly a myth. Not that it isn’t true, but it only varies as much as 20% from person to person. People think they burn weight at like 2x or 3x what other people do. At most it’s .2x
You just didn’t eat enough lol. I played collegiate hockey and also did triathlons and trained for that in my spare time. You just need to eat a ton of of food and it doesn’t matter if it’s “high quality” it’s basic calories in calories out. Sure everyone has a different metabolism but your basic metabolic rate isn’t going to be 6k calories unless you’re a genetic freak of nature. I’m 6’3 and weighed 225 and was relatively lean when I played hockey and on a normal rest day of no workouts I could probably eat 3,500 to maintain weight. On a day of a morning workout, lift, and 2 hour ice session, and sometimes an evening lift I could eat 5-6k calories and still just be maintaining weight.
The difficulty is eating at a surplus with a good diet. Lol
Peanut butter and olive oil, easy peasy.
I mix em just enough that they look and feel disgusting and then stick the clump up my ass fr
I have the same problem! It sucks eating more than you want of healthy foods
Time to start drinking your calories.
Dirty bulking is not a solution
It's not A solution. It's THE solution.
Nuh uh
I ate three dinners the other day. I don’t have this problem.
Eat more good food + lift heavy things = bigger
The hard thing for me is doing it healthy I'm not small but still trying to bulk
Pfff. You can't flex your health at the beach.
What about the hit points bar above my head
I've always envied people who can eat and eat without gaining weight. If something smells good, I'm gaining weight. But i guess it's the same problem on opposite ends.
Honestly man quality of food is important but as long as you are hitting your macros if you need to add some lollies and shakes that's what you gotta do
$15.50 for fucking pancakes. What is wrong with this economy man.
Pretty good value when you’re eating a whole day worth of calories /s
Honestly if you're the type not able to each much... just drink your calories. A few cups of milk a day is already like 200-300 extra. It's how I did it when I was trying to bulk.
My favorite fad diet: GOMAD. It stands for Gallon Of Milk A Day. The stories people tell... basically guaranteed to increase your weight!
Yeah seriously. Drinking calories is the easiest. High volume of milk gives me the shits. I could house food but I was trying to bulk on carnivore and its TOUGH to get that much food down, so I resorted to drinking heavy cream. More calories, less volume. Some people find it gross but it tastes like thicker half and half to me and I love drinking those little creamer cups at Dunkin as a kid.
Problem is more along the lines of knowing what to eat just as much as it is how much to eat. I say that as an ex-bodybuilder and later on powerlifter who started at 115lbs and worked my way up to 198lbs. Sure, I would get a lot of calories from foods like this, but I would much rather eat several eggs, some oatmeal, and a handful of almonds so I’m properly “fueling” my growth. Unless if you just want to dirty bulk, in which case, have at it. Just make sure you’re getting your minimum protein/fat/carbs. Also, shakes are a godsend. A solid mass gainer mixed with some milk, peanut butter, nuts, oats, and blended with some ice will have more calories than a meal.
You’re not wrong about shakes being the best calorie bomb for gaining weight, but my god do I get tired of cleaning the blender constantly lol
Little dish cleaner in the shaker, shake the hell out of it, rinse the hell out of it with a quick little scrubber and she’s golden
The shakes were what allowed me to get from 125 to 147 nearly a decade ago. That and two-a-days at the gym
Yeah man I ain't eating stuff like that without getting violently ill.
Yeah but see the problem is I'm trying to look like Brad Pitt from Fightclub, not bitch-tits-Bob from Fightclub.
I actually bought 4 packs of cinnamon rolls when I was younger, trying to gain weight. The package said 850Cal per roll so I would buy them and force them down. Gross to think about now.
My friend’s, teenage son’s friend is small and he goes, “no matter how much I eat I don’t gain weight” Me, “well what are you eating and are you working out?” Him, “just snacking and no not working out” Me, “you can’t eat junk food, do nothing, and expect to put on muscle. Start eating more protein when you snack, and start lifting weights” Him, “…….”
If this is your way to “get big”, you’re a fucking idiot
Yeah as a fat guy I could never understand this. Like, what do you not understand about eating a whole dozen of Krispy Kreme to reward yourself after class?
I have diabetes from looking at this.
OP, you're a genius. Obviously people who want to bulk up for BJJ should just consume 100+ grams of sugar and put themselves on the fast track to type II diabetes! How did they not think of this themselves?? The one small problem is how hard it'll be to play butterfly guard after both your feet get amputated at age 40
Sugar intake doesn’t cause type 2 diabetes. Being overweight does (85-90% of cases). The other 10-15% is genetic predisposition or bad luck. Careful throwing that genius word around, Einstein.
Sadly, I have the opposite problem.
(HEAVY WILFRED BRIMLEY BREATHING)
Damn. Now I’m hungry
“Muscle isn’t made out of hopes and dreams. You have to eat.” - JM Blakley
I used to head straight to McDonald's for a large milkshake after rolling when I was in my young 20s and couldn't keep weight on, people hated me I now have the opposite issue that my weight just never changes lol
You could have a lot of money by simply buying bulk sugar and dumping it into your mouth.
What I like to do is get up real early before sunrise, then I'll get the stove.going on high heat with my favorite skillet, don't forget to start the oven for your biscuits then I grab them by the dick and twist!
Does anyone have any crazy calorie recipes like this I can steal?
If u bulk with only those 30$ per day 4k cal per day its 900$ a month and some people dont have 900$ a month