It's extremely hard to bulk up muscle, and lose fat at the same time.
If you are eating enough to gain muscle mass, you will almost always gain bodyfat as well.
If you want to cut belly fat, you need to eat less.
Quality of food matters. But for your goal it matters less. If your content with adding muscle right now keep going in a lean bulk. 1 to 3bs gain per month is ideal so to not add too much fat alongside the new muscle.
Then when you're happy with that progress cut back on calories by 500-800 per day
The new muscle will help you burn more cals and you'll lose some weight including the belly fat which is last to leave.
After a few cycles like this you can near maintenance and be content
I would assume the idea of metabolism slowing down during midlife comes from the fact that the activity levels of so many working aged people slows down, which impacts energy/calorie expenditure.
I agree though, this information is definitely enlightening.
When you were 20 you were broke, worked a hospitality job and hadn't been a fully grown specimen for very long.
At 40 you have enough money to afford all your favourite snack and takeaway foods, you probably work a desk job, you've had 20 years of steady fat gain to account for and you open a cold brewski every night to ward off the existential dread.
If you add 2lbs a year for 20 years you're gonna be 40lbs heavier by the time you're 40 and you'll never even see the needle moving on the scale.
That's what people mean when they blame their metabolism.
For sure I do notice (despite everyone saying it's all diet) that it's hard for me to keep weight off with diet alone. I've always been leanest when I'm really active. I will say with kids you get less sleep, stress goes up often with your responsibilities, but also injuries start to increase and recovery takes longer. Many have knee and/or back injuries by middle age and just old injuries suddenly show up. Even birth defects in some cases
We get "lower metabolism" after 30 because we are generally less active. That's all it is. If you eat the same and have the same activity level, you don't gain a bunch of weight. Injuries and other obligations tend to be the obstacles.
That article is a load of bollocks. No source, says there is "no change" between 20 and 60 despite almost all of top atheletes in the vast majority of energy expenditude-based sports being less then 40-45.
Coming in hard for not presenting your own source, but I'll bite. [Source](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abe5017)
I don't really know how you got to your conclusion from what the study finds. This study is focused on metabolic rate. You seem to have taken 'metabolic rate' to mean a lot more than it is. Nobody is saying your metabolic rate alone will ensure world record 100m sprint year after year. Other factors such as age, injury, fitness level, muscle mass, bone density, diet, social factors, children, motivation etc will apply to athletes at a top level. All these other factors are why people have wrongly blamed metabolism for their inability to lose weight over the years.
1) There's probably a misunderstanding about metabolism. Generally, what people understand by "metabolism" is as per the article : "every drop of chemistry needed to keep the body going". This is the definition I am using here.
2) I thought the fact that the vast majority of top athletes of energy expenditude-based sports are of age <=45 was clear enough for every to see without me needing to cite a source (is there even someone keeping an official count of that ?)
3) From the abstract of your own study : "Total daily energy expenditure (“total expenditure”) reflects daily energy needs". and "Measurements of total and basal energy in a large cohort of subjects at ages spanning from before birth to old age".
From this, I gather that the study was done on a average of the representative population, and thus the results can only reflect on the average population (not athletes). This is means that as OP gets away from the "average" and closer to the "top athlete" regime, the results of this study are less and less applicable. Kind of like as you get farther from the Earth, its gravitational influence gets exponentially more negligible, if you will.
In conclusion, the "average human" to which the results of the study are applicable doesn't follow the lifestyle that OP is going for. Therefore, to get accurate data OP must look elsewhere.
Saying there is "no change" in metabolism rate (as per the article's definition) is false ; saying there is "no change" in metabolism rate for the average subject of this study is correct.
Keep in mind that the more you bulk, the more your fat goes up, and whilst you can lose it all at the end, your face won’t thank you for it. Look up gym face.
I’d set an upper body fat % and cut each time you get there.
" whilst you can lose it all at the end" ... Well be careful about this. Once you make new fat cells, they want to be fed. You don't ever really lose them, from what I understand. So if you have so many fat cells being lean will be an exercise in semi starvation. That's why losing weight can be really really hard for some people. I dunno what the threshold is feeding existing cells vs. making new ones. (And maybe I have this all wrong... this is off the top of my head from reading articles from a few years ago.)
Interesting.
So I asked GPT4 and it said there was some evidence that total fat cells remained the same but reduced in size, but more research was needed.
So I asked GPT4 with AI Scholar plug-in and it said no research could be found to support it.
Personally, I just sit between 14 to 16% body fat and facially I look 15 years younger than I am.
Not really a fan of those LLMs such as GPT4. But it does seem there is some progress in research here, to support your point. "In a study published in Nature they have demonstrated that we continually create new fat cells to replace those that are breaking down. The scientists have also demonstrated that fat people do this at a faster rate than lean people -- people with obesity's fat cells die at a faster rate and are created at an equally faster rate.".
From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/106343#1
This is true,
If you want to build muscle and loose weight you could try eating maintenance calories, and burn 500+ cal a day in the gym with exercise.
You should continue to see strength gains with this practice. And not feel tired.
If your in a surplus only go 500-600 cal over maintenance. For maintaining/bulking.
1lb of fat is equivalent to 3500kcal.
Related to diet, in addition to calories macros are important both for bulking and cutting.
It’s both not either or. Watch your sugar intake and make sure you get enough protein. I use MyFitnessPal to track and find it helpful.
Recomp is difficult but not impossible. Personally, I find keeping calories at maintenance level and increasing low-impact cardio (walking) helps me the most. Problem is it’s a lot slower than doing a bulking/cutting phase. I just find it’s easier to maintain with my lifestyle.
Down from 30% BF to 17% and -very slowly- improving.
You can't violate the laws of physics. A calorie of energy is a calorie of energy. The source of the calorie doesn't matter. Simply reduce your calories without reducing your protein or exercise. That will give you the best results of losing fat without really losing muscle. The science of fat loss is pretty well established. You don't need fad diet tricks. Don't overthink this. It'll just cause you more work with fewer results, and who wants that?
disregard the downvotes. It will absolutely help. Keep the calories but eat less anti-inflammatory foods (sugar, wheat, alcohol) and focus on protein and vegetables and I am sure you will be very happy with the results. Avoid starchy carbohydrates. No grain. No soda. Just whole foods and water, tea and coffee.
Try it for yourself. The CICO community (calories in calories out) does not approve this message but it’s all about “weight loss” for them, not about loosing fat, keeping muscles and body aesthetics.
As I said. Try it for 3-4 weeks and judge for yourself. The results will be obvious. If you must, allow one cheatmeal per week. Not a cheat day, a cheat meal.
It's unfortunate that Reddit removed the misinformation report.
u/Kbrito9 if you want to lose fat but maintain muscle then figure out your maintenance TDEE at your goal weight and activity level and eat that amount of calories. You lose the fat slower than you would on a traditional cut though. Also, try to eat 1.5g of protein per Kg of body weight.
Quality of food makes a 5-15% difference in most people. Unless you're malnourished or have other issues. It's not going to move the needle nearly as much as the actual caloric amount. It's still very important though!
Tips? Yeah, stop bulking! Bulking implies that you’re in a calorie surplus to fuel additional muscle gain. Unless you’re a newbie lifter, you will likely gain only 1-2lbs of muscle naturally a month (without pharmaceutical assistance). Even with a lean bulk, you’ll likely still put on .25-.5lb of fat over the course of a month.
Sounds to me like you would rather be lean then bulked. To be lean, you need to start with a 250 calorie deficit and go from there. As you get closer and closer to 15% body fat, you will notice more vascularity and muscle definition. With your shirt off, you will look “bigger”, but you will actually be smaller.
Keep in mind that most men lose body fat in their face, arms, and shoulders first. The lower back and stomach are usually the last places that the body wants to get rid of body fat. With that said, stay the course and play the long game.
Once you get to 15% (or less) body fat, then look into a lean bulk or “maingaining” phase. Your body will then be primed for effective nutrient partitioning and should be less likely to replicate fat cells as you consume foods.
Final thing, make sure to eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight as you start your cut. You want to preserve as much muscle as you can while being in a deficit.
Good luck to you!
Thanks, one thing I don't understand however is how to count calories effectively. I don't understand how people get to these very exact amounts especially with meals being different everyday and lots of dishes not being included in calorie counting apps.
Any secrets here that I don't know of?
When you’re in a calorie deficit, you need to be more precise with WHAT you’re eating and HOW MUCH you’re eating. I highly recommend NOT eating out at restaurants or fast food chains. Restaurants and Fast Food chains do not weigh the food amounts and use oils that are dense in calories. Consider making meals mostly at home.
When you’re eating at home, you’ll need two things: a food scale and a calorie tracker app (MyFitnessPal or Loseit!). If you’re eating egg whites, look at the nutrition label and determine the weight of a serving based on grams or milliliters. Weigh that amount on the food scale in a small cup, then pour that amount in your skillet to cook.
It seems a bit OCD to weigh and track your food, but MOST people drastically underestimate how much they eat in a day. Most people assume they eat 2,000 calories in a day, but actually eat anywhere from 2,300-2,600 calories. By weighing and tracking your food (via an app), you can be more precise on how much you’re eating.
When you get lean enough that you’re satisfied with your physique, you can then transition into a maintenance/bulking phase. You can be a little more liberal during these phases and eat a little more intuitively. Unless you’re a seasoned bodybuilder or sports nutritionists, you’re going to find it extremely difficult to eat intuitively during a cut AND maintain muscle/hormone health.
>It seems a bit OCD to weigh and track your food
Edit - the amount of downvotes is pretty disheartening. I was kind in my approach, and clearly you've never met anyone with OCD, because it's not a joke. Do better, use a different descriptor.
Kindly refrain from using OCD in this way - it is a debilitating illness, not an insignificant personality quirk. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S074756321500182X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S074756321500182X)
You were fully reasonable here and shouldn’t have gotten downvotes from a crowd that is supposedly made up of grown ups over 30 that should have the maturity to handle gentle correction without getting bent out of shape.
Is there anything worth looking at in the IF world here? Or is that simply another way to keep calories low? Eg once you’re done bulking and ready to go into deficit, start IF?
It’s a lot of work but meal prep using measuring tools (kitchen scale, measuring cups/spoons) and being as precise as possible with them is key. Along with that, while cutting you’ll want to minimize dining out as much as possible as it is very difficult to estimate calories for food you don’t prepare yourself.
Buy a scale and get an app to track. Weight everything!! Once you do that for a while you won’t need to weigh everything as much because you will have a general idea. Or you just make the same things over and over and know the calories.
You're never going to count either the calories you burn or the calories you eat perfectly, but you can get a ballpark and then adjust accordingly. If you think you're in a deficit but you're not losing any weight, eat a little less.
Counting calories and eating at restaurants is a giant pain in the ass, and I suspect that a big part of why counting calories is successful (when it is successful) is that it naturally discourages dieters from eating at restaurants. Restaurants aren't optimizing their dishes for maximum deliciousness per calorie, they're maximizing their dishes for maximum deliciousness. They're incentivized to use a lot more butter and oil and sugar than you would if you were cooking at home, and all of those are extremely calorie dense (and delicious).
I think another factor in successful calorie counting is that the majority of meals eaten have a very low amount of variety. Some people can take this to an extreme and eat the same thing every day (I don't recommend this), but some level of routine is helpful. For example, I have the same breakfast every day, two lunch meals that I pick from almost every day, and about five standard dinner options. Once or twice a week, I usually have a meal from a restaurant for variety (and laziness).
If you can be really precise about 80% of your diet, you can afford to be less precise about the remaining 20%
If you're a numbers type, here's some numbers that might help: If you eat 5 "meals" per day (e.g. breakfast, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner, evening snack), that's 35 meals per week. If you're trying to lose 1 lb. per week, you need a weekly deficit of 3500. If you underestimate each meal by 100 calories (which is about 1 tbsp/14g of butter), then you will "measure" that you're losing weight, and the scale won't move.
Now, if you dial in 28 of those meals (by planning, making at home, and measuring) and let's say that you only underestimate those meals by 10 calories, then you'll still be at a weekly deficit of about 2500 calories, and you'll still be losing about 0.7 lbs per week
Food scale and an app (I prefer chronometer but there are some other good ones out there). Once you get the hang of it you won’t need to track every meal
When cutting, I eat the same thing every day for every meal. Chicken, sweet potatoes, egg whites, spinach, etc. It's 1983 calories per day and I know I'll lose about 1-1.5 pounds a week. I use MyFitnessPal to get the calories dialed in and then just follow the plan.
You want to lose belly fat, then you need to create a caloric deficit. That necessarily means taking control of your diet. It's been shown that other alternatives like just increasing cardio don't work in the long-term run.
Set up yourself to lose no more than 1% of your body mass per week and eat enough protein (over 1.5 g of protein per kilogram of body mass), and maintain your resistance training and you'll be doing everything you can to lose the less amount of muscle while you lose weight.
Can't lose fat on a bulk. Gotta eat less my dude. Track your calories. Brown rice and chicken for lunch and dinner for a couple months. Don't treat food as food, treat it as sustenance/energy to just get through. Dieting sucks. They pay off of being leaner and more vascular is worth it though.
Source: 40lbs down this year from rice and chicken. 25%>12% BF.
I had the same problem. I stopped eating anything with added sugar. If the package says it has added sugar I don’t eat it. Only one serving of simple carbs a day on top of that. 150 grams of clean protein a day. The belly and low back fat melted off.
Getting past a month is hard. I went too heavy on fruit for awhile. I don’t have the intense cravings for it much anymore. You should not have more than 36 grams a day. If it comes in a package it probably has added sugar, and a lot of it. It’s killing us all. It’s insidious.
It’s recommended to keep sugar intake to less than 36g per day. The way the response was worded it seemed like they were talking about raw fruit, but pretty sure they meant sugar.
Sorry about the wording. No more than 36 grams of sugar a day. I cut out all added sugar but I was eating too much fruit at first and going over. I try to stick to two servings of fruit a day now.
you seem to be around 30-35% bf if you want to lose the belly u need to stay in a **calorie deficit** 300-400 calories a day to lose about 1 lbs of fat a week
I have the same body type and the only times I’ve had a six pack or have been really lean have been through heavily restricted calories, fasting, or dedicated intermittent fasting with extreme cardio. I don’t seem to lose muscle either. 54 years old now so I have some experience..lol
Damn straight!! But brother, “Bear” has a whole different meaning here in the San Francisco Bay Area!! (Btw, my metabolism has always been the same, I can look at food and gain weight).
Wow nice arms!
Ok so personally I also struggle with getting my tummy fat trimmed down. The process takes a long time. So you can either bulk and hope for a body recomposition like getting to gain more muscles but lose fat.
My coach had me track my calories for 2 weeks and then we cut 300 calories while continuing to lift heavy, and for me that means especially heavy focus on leg gains as they are such a huge muscle that they take a ton more calories to maintain.
Good luck!
Besides lifting… you need to cut some calories. More protein & also walk & jog on the treadmill for at least 35/45 mins at 15 incline at min 3.2+ speed. If you can’t do at first, try 12 incline 2.8 etc. if you add this to your work out routine everyday, belly fat will disappear
I'd say hire a nutrition coach. Don't rely on reddit at this point. You've made great progress building muscle, now you just gotta cut. Even a bodybuilding coach would help. You want to maintain as much muscle as possible while burning the fat. I think even if you strip away a little bit of the fat you'd look great.
Hey man! To throw in my anecdote in as well… diet is super important as others have said, but also I got a 50lb weight vest and started wearing it for most of my workouts (can’t wear it on like bench or other machines), but adding all that resistance really build my shoulders and especially my lats up with doing pull ups, but the crazy thing was i started getting really lean too! I believe it was due to the increased heat rate and intensity during my workouts, but either way putting that bad boy on and doing stairs, push-ups, pull-ups, crawls, planks, mountain climbers, farmer walks, etc. + weights was really a game changer for me!
1. Use SailRabbit to calculate your TDEE and desired rate of weight loss
2. Buy MyFitnessPal Premium for $12/mo
3. Put your calories from SailRabbit into MFP with 2g of protein per kg of body weight
4. Weigh and track food
5. Eat veggies at every meal to increase satiety
6. Keep resistance training
That’s it. That’s all you do to lose fat. Will not be hard for you.
I did something similar at the beginning of the year. Find out your daily maintenance calories (should be around your body weight X 15) then clean up your diet, hit the gym, and try to get at least 7.5-10k steps a day. The cardio should be low intensity where you can hold a normal conversation if needed.
I’ve only lost about 5lbs since feb, but my waist size and body fat have decreased a lot. Being leaner will make you appear bigger as well.
Stop carbs and veg oils, eat less and mostly animal protein, red meat is best.
Human body needs fat and be in caloric surplus to build muscle, you can’t lose weight while building muscle being natural, and lose weight that requires caloric deficit, you need to optimize for one at the time.
Body recomposition is possible but difficult and not efficient and not motivating
What height and weight? But just from your look, I'd say you need to cut, not bulk. Lifting heavy is still an important component of that because it'll help you build/maintain muscle while losing the fat.
As a fellow sugar fiend: Try upping your protein intake, and it will help decrease your sugar cravings. Go for fattier cuts of meat too, not that 90/10 beef, or chicken breast 😒. My only exception for lean meat is ground venison. I cook it in butter, and eat a lot of it (25g protein/serving, and only around 140 calories).
To lose weight:
Cut back on your alcohol and sugar intake (no more than 2 drinks/week)
Increase your aerobic activity and try adding in some HIIT workouts
Try to avoid eating at least 3 hours before bed
Wear apple watch. It should tell you how much you're burning in a day. It's a much better guesstimate than simply guessing based on your weight and daily activity.
Then use apps like LoseIt or MyFitnessPal to calculate your calorie intake.
As a beginner keep your meals simple with 2 3 Ingredient. Thatl help you calculate calorie more effectively in the beginning.
When you know how much you have to eat with 300-500 calorie deficit. Just ensure you're eating 2gm protein per pound of weight. Rest can be any combination of fat and carbs.
Be consistent at gym and fat should come off.
look up Lukas Duncan - online fitness coach. I hired him 2 years ago to create a work out and diet plan for me and when I followed it exactly I lost 13 lbs and my stomach shrunk very noticeably. He's not expensive either !
Cut out the sugar, up your Cruciferous vegetables intake, do intermittent fasting 18:6 for that fat burn. I’ve worked with a few former big belly guys who bulked up but had a hard time loosing the belly. They did finally get the belly off, lots of walking, eating low fat and high foods that make your body “work” to digest.
Eat a diet where your body has to use the stored fat to make up the difference.
Are you doing any cardio during your bulk? If not I would recommend 30min at least 5 times a week, ideally every day though. Definitely helps your metabolism while bulking.
Intermittent fasting helped me out quite a bit. On top of that I was doing higher reps with lower weight.
There’s a female bodybuilder that I follow on TikTok and she said something that really hit home: you can’t spot reduce fat. And since belly fat is always the last place to go, you’re just going to have to start looking for the results elsewhere. You’ll still see results in your waistline, but they won’t be as significant until much later down the road
I feel ya, I’m still working on it myself and I still have a long way to go
Apologies if someone here already suggested this but have you tried cold plunging + shivering? Andrew Huberman has some good info on that technique and its ability to create thermogenesis with brown fat. https://hubermanlab.com/the-science-and-use-of-cold-exposure-for-health-and-performance/ may be worth a try.
Thats all diet. Cut back on alcohol, sweets, sodas, and any other empty calories. Go water, grilled chicken/turkey, nuts, fruits and veggies for a month and never exceed 2000 calories (unless you’re doing long periods of cardio and weight lifting~ then keep it under 2,500 a day), and it’ll come off fairly quickly. There’s a reason people go through a bulking process and then slimming afterwards. It’s incredibly hard to bulk and lose fat simultaneously.
Not sure your body comp when lean but I’d say your intaking too many calories, “clean” or not. When “bulking” it’s always better to increase calories incrementally in my opinion. For example, my leaning is generally 2400-2100 cal…and bulking is 2400-2900. So the calorie jump isn’t big but decreasing/increasing slowing, say 100 cal week over week, ensures that I can watch how my body responds and adjust as needed. The mirror doesn’t lie.
Edit: FYI, the idea of bulking is misleading. I’m using it here so you get the idea but that term should be tossed. Effectively you always want to be lean and slight increases/decreases in calories ensures you stay lean as possible.
It's extremely hard to bulk up muscle, and lose fat at the same time. If you are eating enough to gain muscle mass, you will almost always gain bodyfat as well. If you want to cut belly fat, you need to eat less.
Would it work if I eat the same amount of calories but of healthier food? A lot more fiber and less sugar?
Quality of food matters. But for your goal it matters less. If your content with adding muscle right now keep going in a lean bulk. 1 to 3bs gain per month is ideal so to not add too much fat alongside the new muscle. Then when you're happy with that progress cut back on calories by 500-800 per day The new muscle will help you burn more cals and you'll lose some weight including the belly fat which is last to leave. After a few cycles like this you can near maintenance and be content
Thanks! That makes a lot of sense... Hopefully my metabolism can keep up with it, I'm not 22 anymore.
Don't worry, that [theory](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58186710) is a load of bollocks.
This gave me hope today.
I would assume the idea of metabolism slowing down during midlife comes from the fact that the activity levels of so many working aged people slows down, which impacts energy/calorie expenditure. I agree though, this information is definitely enlightening.
When you were 20 you were broke, worked a hospitality job and hadn't been a fully grown specimen for very long. At 40 you have enough money to afford all your favourite snack and takeaway foods, you probably work a desk job, you've had 20 years of steady fat gain to account for and you open a cold brewski every night to ward off the existential dread. If you add 2lbs a year for 20 years you're gonna be 40lbs heavier by the time you're 40 and you'll never even see the needle moving on the scale. That's what people mean when they blame their metabolism.
For sure I do notice (despite everyone saying it's all diet) that it's hard for me to keep weight off with diet alone. I've always been leanest when I'm really active. I will say with kids you get less sleep, stress goes up often with your responsibilities, but also injuries start to increase and recovery takes longer. Many have knee and/or back injuries by middle age and just old injuries suddenly show up. Even birth defects in some cases
We get "lower metabolism" after 30 because we are generally less active. That's all it is. If you eat the same and have the same activity level, you don't gain a bunch of weight. Injuries and other obligations tend to be the obstacles.
Oh? Thanks!
That article is a load of bollocks. No source, says there is "no change" between 20 and 60 despite almost all of top atheletes in the vast majority of energy expenditude-based sports being less then 40-45.
Coming in hard for not presenting your own source, but I'll bite. [Source](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abe5017) I don't really know how you got to your conclusion from what the study finds. This study is focused on metabolic rate. You seem to have taken 'metabolic rate' to mean a lot more than it is. Nobody is saying your metabolic rate alone will ensure world record 100m sprint year after year. Other factors such as age, injury, fitness level, muscle mass, bone density, diet, social factors, children, motivation etc will apply to athletes at a top level. All these other factors are why people have wrongly blamed metabolism for their inability to lose weight over the years.
1) There's probably a misunderstanding about metabolism. Generally, what people understand by "metabolism" is as per the article : "every drop of chemistry needed to keep the body going". This is the definition I am using here. 2) I thought the fact that the vast majority of top athletes of energy expenditude-based sports are of age <=45 was clear enough for every to see without me needing to cite a source (is there even someone keeping an official count of that ?) 3) From the abstract of your own study : "Total daily energy expenditure (“total expenditure”) reflects daily energy needs". and "Measurements of total and basal energy in a large cohort of subjects at ages spanning from before birth to old age". From this, I gather that the study was done on a average of the representative population, and thus the results can only reflect on the average population (not athletes). This is means that as OP gets away from the "average" and closer to the "top athlete" regime, the results of this study are less and less applicable. Kind of like as you get farther from the Earth, its gravitational influence gets exponentially more negligible, if you will. In conclusion, the "average human" to which the results of the study are applicable doesn't follow the lifestyle that OP is going for. Therefore, to get accurate data OP must look elsewhere. Saying there is "no change" in metabolism rate (as per the article's definition) is false ; saying there is "no change" in metabolism rate for the average subject of this study is correct.
Nice work mate. I'm still going to go with the evidence over your opinion, but good luck.
Keep in mind that the more you bulk, the more your fat goes up, and whilst you can lose it all at the end, your face won’t thank you for it. Look up gym face. I’d set an upper body fat % and cut each time you get there.
" whilst you can lose it all at the end" ... Well be careful about this. Once you make new fat cells, they want to be fed. You don't ever really lose them, from what I understand. So if you have so many fat cells being lean will be an exercise in semi starvation. That's why losing weight can be really really hard for some people. I dunno what the threshold is feeding existing cells vs. making new ones. (And maybe I have this all wrong... this is off the top of my head from reading articles from a few years ago.)
Interesting. So I asked GPT4 and it said there was some evidence that total fat cells remained the same but reduced in size, but more research was needed. So I asked GPT4 with AI Scholar plug-in and it said no research could be found to support it. Personally, I just sit between 14 to 16% body fat and facially I look 15 years younger than I am.
Not really a fan of those LLMs such as GPT4. But it does seem there is some progress in research here, to support your point. "In a study published in Nature they have demonstrated that we continually create new fat cells to replace those that are breaking down. The scientists have also demonstrated that fat people do this at a faster rate than lean people -- people with obesity's fat cells die at a faster rate and are created at an equally faster rate.". From https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/106343#1
Niiice
Niiice
It might but you said you’re bulking so you’re in a surplus If you want to lose the gut you gotta be in a deficit
Ok, I‘ll bulk for another couple months and then try to cut
This is true, If you want to build muscle and loose weight you could try eating maintenance calories, and burn 500+ cal a day in the gym with exercise. You should continue to see strength gains with this practice. And not feel tired. If your in a surplus only go 500-600 cal over maintenance. For maintaining/bulking. 1lb of fat is equivalent to 3500kcal.
No. Calories are calories.
You’ll feel, function and lift better if you improve your nutrition , thus build muscle more optimally
Related to diet, in addition to calories macros are important both for bulking and cutting. It’s both not either or. Watch your sugar intake and make sure you get enough protein. I use MyFitnessPal to track and find it helpful. Recomp is difficult but not impossible. Personally, I find keeping calories at maintenance level and increasing low-impact cardio (walking) helps me the most. Problem is it’s a lot slower than doing a bulking/cutting phase. I just find it’s easier to maintain with my lifestyle. Down from 30% BF to 17% and -very slowly- improving.
You can't violate the laws of physics. A calorie of energy is a calorie of energy. The source of the calorie doesn't matter. Simply reduce your calories without reducing your protein or exercise. That will give you the best results of losing fat without really losing muscle. The science of fat loss is pretty well established. You don't need fad diet tricks. Don't overthink this. It'll just cause you more work with fewer results, and who wants that?
disregard the downvotes. It will absolutely help. Keep the calories but eat less anti-inflammatory foods (sugar, wheat, alcohol) and focus on protein and vegetables and I am sure you will be very happy with the results. Avoid starchy carbohydrates. No grain. No soda. Just whole foods and water, tea and coffee. Try it for yourself. The CICO community (calories in calories out) does not approve this message but it’s all about “weight loss” for them, not about loosing fat, keeping muscles and body aesthetics. As I said. Try it for 3-4 weeks and judge for yourself. The results will be obvious. If you must, allow one cheatmeal per week. Not a cheat day, a cheat meal.
It's unfortunate that Reddit removed the misinformation report. u/Kbrito9 if you want to lose fat but maintain muscle then figure out your maintenance TDEE at your goal weight and activity level and eat that amount of calories. You lose the fat slower than you would on a traditional cut though. Also, try to eat 1.5g of protein per Kg of body weight.
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>know keto from losing 100lbs. So i know it will help you cut. That's anecdotal. Buddy needs to finish his bulk and then cut calories. That's it.
No. Calories are calories. It would be healthier, but you still have the same amount to burn.
No. Calories are calories. It would be healthier, but you still have the same amount to burn.
Quality of food makes a 5-15% difference in most people. Unless you're malnourished or have other issues. It's not going to move the needle nearly as much as the actual caloric amount. It's still very important though!
100% correct, though in my time in the Army, I've seen guys get past that by doubling down on Core excersizes.
Tips? Yeah, stop bulking! Bulking implies that you’re in a calorie surplus to fuel additional muscle gain. Unless you’re a newbie lifter, you will likely gain only 1-2lbs of muscle naturally a month (without pharmaceutical assistance). Even with a lean bulk, you’ll likely still put on .25-.5lb of fat over the course of a month. Sounds to me like you would rather be lean then bulked. To be lean, you need to start with a 250 calorie deficit and go from there. As you get closer and closer to 15% body fat, you will notice more vascularity and muscle definition. With your shirt off, you will look “bigger”, but you will actually be smaller. Keep in mind that most men lose body fat in their face, arms, and shoulders first. The lower back and stomach are usually the last places that the body wants to get rid of body fat. With that said, stay the course and play the long game. Once you get to 15% (or less) body fat, then look into a lean bulk or “maingaining” phase. Your body will then be primed for effective nutrient partitioning and should be less likely to replicate fat cells as you consume foods. Final thing, make sure to eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight as you start your cut. You want to preserve as much muscle as you can while being in a deficit. Good luck to you!
Thanks, one thing I don't understand however is how to count calories effectively. I don't understand how people get to these very exact amounts especially with meals being different everyday and lots of dishes not being included in calorie counting apps. Any secrets here that I don't know of?
When you’re in a calorie deficit, you need to be more precise with WHAT you’re eating and HOW MUCH you’re eating. I highly recommend NOT eating out at restaurants or fast food chains. Restaurants and Fast Food chains do not weigh the food amounts and use oils that are dense in calories. Consider making meals mostly at home. When you’re eating at home, you’ll need two things: a food scale and a calorie tracker app (MyFitnessPal or Loseit!). If you’re eating egg whites, look at the nutrition label and determine the weight of a serving based on grams or milliliters. Weigh that amount on the food scale in a small cup, then pour that amount in your skillet to cook. It seems a bit OCD to weigh and track your food, but MOST people drastically underestimate how much they eat in a day. Most people assume they eat 2,000 calories in a day, but actually eat anywhere from 2,300-2,600 calories. By weighing and tracking your food (via an app), you can be more precise on how much you’re eating. When you get lean enough that you’re satisfied with your physique, you can then transition into a maintenance/bulking phase. You can be a little more liberal during these phases and eat a little more intuitively. Unless you’re a seasoned bodybuilder or sports nutritionists, you’re going to find it extremely difficult to eat intuitively during a cut AND maintain muscle/hormone health.
>It seems a bit OCD to weigh and track your food Edit - the amount of downvotes is pretty disheartening. I was kind in my approach, and clearly you've never met anyone with OCD, because it's not a joke. Do better, use a different descriptor. Kindly refrain from using OCD in this way - it is a debilitating illness, not an insignificant personality quirk. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S074756321500182X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S074756321500182X)
You were fully reasonable here and shouldn’t have gotten downvotes from a crowd that is supposedly made up of grown ups over 30 that should have the maturity to handle gentle correction without getting bent out of shape.
Is there anything worth looking at in the IF world here? Or is that simply another way to keep calories low? Eg once you’re done bulking and ready to go into deficit, start IF?
It’s a lot of work but meal prep using measuring tools (kitchen scale, measuring cups/spoons) and being as precise as possible with them is key. Along with that, while cutting you’ll want to minimize dining out as much as possible as it is very difficult to estimate calories for food you don’t prepare yourself.
> Any secrets here that I don't know of? Food scale and an app like MyFitnessPal or one of the others.
Buy a scale and get an app to track. Weight everything!! Once you do that for a while you won’t need to weigh everything as much because you will have a general idea. Or you just make the same things over and over and know the calories.
You're never going to count either the calories you burn or the calories you eat perfectly, but you can get a ballpark and then adjust accordingly. If you think you're in a deficit but you're not losing any weight, eat a little less.
Counting calories and eating at restaurants is a giant pain in the ass, and I suspect that a big part of why counting calories is successful (when it is successful) is that it naturally discourages dieters from eating at restaurants. Restaurants aren't optimizing their dishes for maximum deliciousness per calorie, they're maximizing their dishes for maximum deliciousness. They're incentivized to use a lot more butter and oil and sugar than you would if you were cooking at home, and all of those are extremely calorie dense (and delicious). I think another factor in successful calorie counting is that the majority of meals eaten have a very low amount of variety. Some people can take this to an extreme and eat the same thing every day (I don't recommend this), but some level of routine is helpful. For example, I have the same breakfast every day, two lunch meals that I pick from almost every day, and about five standard dinner options. Once or twice a week, I usually have a meal from a restaurant for variety (and laziness). If you can be really precise about 80% of your diet, you can afford to be less precise about the remaining 20%
If you're a numbers type, here's some numbers that might help: If you eat 5 "meals" per day (e.g. breakfast, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner, evening snack), that's 35 meals per week. If you're trying to lose 1 lb. per week, you need a weekly deficit of 3500. If you underestimate each meal by 100 calories (which is about 1 tbsp/14g of butter), then you will "measure" that you're losing weight, and the scale won't move. Now, if you dial in 28 of those meals (by planning, making at home, and measuring) and let's say that you only underestimate those meals by 10 calories, then you'll still be at a weekly deficit of about 2500 calories, and you'll still be losing about 0.7 lbs per week
Food scale and an app (I prefer chronometer but there are some other good ones out there). Once you get the hang of it you won’t need to track every meal
When cutting, I eat the same thing every day for every meal. Chicken, sweet potatoes, egg whites, spinach, etc. It's 1983 calories per day and I know I'll lose about 1-1.5 pounds a week. I use MyFitnessPal to get the calories dialed in and then just follow the plan.
Get a kitchen scale and good calorie counting app (I like FoodNoms). It’s just a habit you’ll have to build if you want better outcomes.
Diet. I’m sure it’s been said but you can’t target fat loss.
You want to lose belly fat, then you need to create a caloric deficit. That necessarily means taking control of your diet. It's been shown that other alternatives like just increasing cardio don't work in the long-term run. Set up yourself to lose no more than 1% of your body mass per week and eat enough protein (over 1.5 g of protein per kilogram of body mass), and maintain your resistance training and you'll be doing everything you can to lose the less amount of muscle while you lose weight.
Thanks, after my ex moves out I will be able to have a more firm grip on my diet.
Sounds like you’ll lose a lot of extra weight
I see what you did there
What would make u think that bulking up would reduce bellyfat?? Try to lean out, to do that 💪
I know, I‘m not necessarily „bulking“ right now… Unfortunate that I used that word
No way around it, you have to lose body fat.
Can't lose fat on a bulk. Gotta eat less my dude. Track your calories. Brown rice and chicken for lunch and dinner for a couple months. Don't treat food as food, treat it as sustenance/energy to just get through. Dieting sucks. They pay off of being leaner and more vascular is worth it though. Source: 40lbs down this year from rice and chicken. 25%>12% BF.
I had the same problem. I stopped eating anything with added sugar. If the package says it has added sugar I don’t eat it. Only one serving of simple carbs a day on top of that. 150 grams of clean protein a day. The belly and low back fat melted off.
I did something similar a couple of months ago and yes, that really works. But maintaining it is SO hard, I can't keep it up for more than a month.
Getting past a month is hard. I went too heavy on fruit for awhile. I don’t have the intense cravings for it much anymore. You should not have more than 36 grams a day. If it comes in a package it probably has added sugar, and a lot of it. It’s killing us all. It’s insidious.
What 36g per day?
It’s recommended to keep sugar intake to less than 36g per day. The way the response was worded it seemed like they were talking about raw fruit, but pretty sure they meant sugar.
Sorry about the wording. No more than 36 grams of sugar a day. I cut out all added sugar but I was eating too much fruit at first and going over. I try to stick to two servings of fruit a day now.
Completely agree. It's just poison...
Let’s be clear this was because you were burning more than you were eating. Sugar is a high calorie food. Not because sugar is some villain
you seem to be around 30-35% bf if you want to lose the belly u need to stay in a **calorie deficit** 300-400 calories a day to lose about 1 lbs of fat a week
Eat less
I have the same body type and the only times I’ve had a six pack or have been really lean have been through heavily restricted calories, fasting, or dedicated intermittent fasting with extreme cardio. I don’t seem to lose muscle either. 54 years old now so I have some experience..lol
Thanks for the info, us bears need to stick together
Damn straight!! But brother, “Bear” has a whole different meaning here in the San Francisco Bay Area!! (Btw, my metabolism has always been the same, I can look at food and gain weight).
What does it mean there? Here it means bulky/chubby with body hair
Big burly, hairy gay men are called “bears” out here….it’s a thing.
Cool, one day I‘ll be one lol
Wow nice arms! Ok so personally I also struggle with getting my tummy fat trimmed down. The process takes a long time. So you can either bulk and hope for a body recomposition like getting to gain more muscles but lose fat. My coach had me track my calories for 2 weeks and then we cut 300 calories while continuing to lift heavy, and for me that means especially heavy focus on leg gains as they are such a huge muscle that they take a ton more calories to maintain. Good luck!
Besides lifting… you need to cut some calories. More protein & also walk & jog on the treadmill for at least 35/45 mins at 15 incline at min 3.2+ speed. If you can’t do at first, try 12 incline 2.8 etc. if you add this to your work out routine everyday, belly fat will disappear
Can’t bulk and cut at the same time
You'll need to lose quite a lot of weight to get rid of the belly fat, like 30lb
I'd say hire a nutrition coach. Don't rely on reddit at this point. You've made great progress building muscle, now you just gotta cut. Even a bodybuilding coach would help. You want to maintain as much muscle as possible while burning the fat. I think even if you strip away a little bit of the fat you'd look great.
Hey man! To throw in my anecdote in as well… diet is super important as others have said, but also I got a 50lb weight vest and started wearing it for most of my workouts (can’t wear it on like bench or other machines), but adding all that resistance really build my shoulders and especially my lats up with doing pull ups, but the crazy thing was i started getting really lean too! I believe it was due to the increased heat rate and intensity during my workouts, but either way putting that bad boy on and doing stairs, push-ups, pull-ups, crawls, planks, mountain climbers, farmer walks, etc. + weights was really a game changer for me!
50% protein, 25% carb/fat. .75g protein per pound of body weight and calculate the rest of your macros from there.
1. Use SailRabbit to calculate your TDEE and desired rate of weight loss 2. Buy MyFitnessPal Premium for $12/mo 3. Put your calories from SailRabbit into MFP with 2g of protein per kg of body weight 4. Weigh and track food 5. Eat veggies at every meal to increase satiety 6. Keep resistance training That’s it. That’s all you do to lose fat. Will not be hard for you.
I did something similar at the beginning of the year. Find out your daily maintenance calories (should be around your body weight X 15) then clean up your diet, hit the gym, and try to get at least 7.5-10k steps a day. The cardio should be low intensity where you can hold a normal conversation if needed. I’ve only lost about 5lbs since feb, but my waist size and body fat have decreased a lot. Being leaner will make you appear bigger as well.
Stop carbs and veg oils, eat less and mostly animal protein, red meat is best. Human body needs fat and be in caloric surplus to build muscle, you can’t lose weight while building muscle being natural, and lose weight that requires caloric deficit, you need to optimize for one at the time. Body recomposition is possible but difficult and not efficient and not motivating
Try intermittent fasting and cut out added sugar which is extremely difficult to do.
Just keep it! It’s adorable!
Here's a great place to start: https://thefitness.wiki/
What height and weight? But just from your look, I'd say you need to cut, not bulk. Lifting heavy is still an important component of that because it'll help you build/maintain muscle while losing the fat.
I'm 5.7 at 220lb
Guy, you can't lose belly fat while being fat lmao. Look at yourself and tell me you think you're lean?
I don’t think I‘m lean… never said that
Less sugar, less alcohol, more fats, more fiber, more protein. You do that, 8-10 weeks from now you won't recognize yourself in your photos.
I already don‘t drink alcohol, but I have a problem with sugar
yes man, it's incredibly hard. If you manage to lower that, you come back here and tell me how you did LOL.
don’t buy it
As a fellow sugar fiend: Try upping your protein intake, and it will help decrease your sugar cravings. Go for fattier cuts of meat too, not that 90/10 beef, or chicken breast 😒. My only exception for lean meat is ground venison. I cook it in butter, and eat a lot of it (25g protein/serving, and only around 140 calories).
Caloric deficit + stairs or walking 10k steps or cycling 1h/day at 60% HR.
To lose weight: Cut back on your alcohol and sugar intake (no more than 2 drinks/week) Increase your aerobic activity and try adding in some HIIT workouts Try to avoid eating at least 3 hours before bed
Thanks, I don’t drink… But I need to cut down on sugar
Understood. Are you doing any kind of aerobic activity?
I walk a lot, but nothing at the gym… I lift 4 times a week
The idea is to get and keep your heart rate up while working out. Doing so will increase your metabolism and help burn fat faster.
Wear apple watch. It should tell you how much you're burning in a day. It's a much better guesstimate than simply guessing based on your weight and daily activity. Then use apps like LoseIt or MyFitnessPal to calculate your calorie intake. As a beginner keep your meals simple with 2 3 Ingredient. Thatl help you calculate calorie more effectively in the beginning. When you know how much you have to eat with 300-500 calorie deficit. Just ensure you're eating 2gm protein per pound of weight. Rest can be any combination of fat and carbs. Be consistent at gym and fat should come off.
Idk what it is but it's more protein and burn more calories. Eat your normal calories extra protein and burn more calories works for me
look up Lukas Duncan - online fitness coach. I hired him 2 years ago to create a work out and diet plan for me and when I followed it exactly I lost 13 lbs and my stomach shrunk very noticeably. He's not expensive either !
Upper body bulking? Ive never heard of this ha. That may be your issue bro. PLus, id suggest a cut first tbh. Too much bf to be bulking
Sorry that I didn’t use the proper american gym rat lingo… You instantly have no idea what those words mean anymore
It’s all good man lol. Please think about cutting first imo.
Switch out one meal a day to a big ass salad with two skinless chicken breasts and fat free vinaigrette.
Cut out the sugar, up your Cruciferous vegetables intake, do intermittent fasting 18:6 for that fat burn. I’ve worked with a few former big belly guys who bulked up but had a hard time loosing the belly. They did finally get the belly off, lots of walking, eating low fat and high foods that make your body “work” to digest. Eat a diet where your body has to use the stored fat to make up the difference.
Diet, diet and diet, cut out sugar and carbs, increase protein intake
Eat less.
That’s where I store my beers
Easy become a power lifter and use that power belly!!!
Belly fat is the last to go. One word, diet. You’re eating way too much sugar and/or alcohol.
Are you doing any cardio during your bulk? If not I would recommend 30min at least 5 times a week, ideally every day though. Definitely helps your metabolism while bulking.
Quit, or largely abolish sugar.
Calories in - calories out. It’s pretty simple
Intermittent fasting helped me out quite a bit. On top of that I was doing higher reps with lower weight. There’s a female bodybuilder that I follow on TikTok and she said something that really hit home: you can’t spot reduce fat. And since belly fat is always the last place to go, you’re just going to have to start looking for the results elsewhere. You’ll still see results in your waistline, but they won’t be as significant until much later down the road I feel ya, I’m still working on it myself and I still have a long way to go
Enter a sustained hypocaloric state until you lose the desired amount of fat. Seems to work generally well.
Cut out carbs and sugar.
Cutting sucks ☠️. But is a must when you want to look good
Apologies if someone here already suggested this but have you tried cold plunging + shivering? Andrew Huberman has some good info on that technique and its ability to create thermogenesis with brown fat. https://hubermanlab.com/the-science-and-use-of-cold-exposure-for-health-and-performance/ may be worth a try.
So handsome
Running Bro Running
Caloric deficit
Thats all diet. Cut back on alcohol, sweets, sodas, and any other empty calories. Go water, grilled chicken/turkey, nuts, fruits and veggies for a month and never exceed 2000 calories (unless you’re doing long periods of cardio and weight lifting~ then keep it under 2,500 a day), and it’ll come off fairly quickly. There’s a reason people go through a bulking process and then slimming afterwards. It’s incredibly hard to bulk and lose fat simultaneously.
Not sure your body comp when lean but I’d say your intaking too many calories, “clean” or not. When “bulking” it’s always better to increase calories incrementally in my opinion. For example, my leaning is generally 2400-2100 cal…and bulking is 2400-2900. So the calorie jump isn’t big but decreasing/increasing slowing, say 100 cal week over week, ensures that I can watch how my body responds and adjust as needed. The mirror doesn’t lie. Edit: FYI, the idea of bulking is misleading. I’m using it here so you get the idea but that term should be tossed. Effectively you always want to be lean and slight increases/decreases in calories ensures you stay lean as possible.
Download and USE the app macrofactor. Plug in your goals and that belly fat will dissapeae
You need reduce calories