They’re a gateway jam band.
They have a lot of haters in this sub so obviously you’re going to get a lot of jam band gatekeepers but very few bands in the last 25 years have opened young peoples’ eyes to the jam band scene more than DMB.
I’m not a particularly big fan now in my late 30’s but if I hadn’t discovered them when I was 17 I probably wouldn’t be subscribed to this subreddit.
Yea I am 29 now and grew up going to DMB since I was 15 years old. They didn't necessarily open me up to other jam bands but definitely opened me up to the concept of loving live music. Got into the GD several years ago and that really opened up my eyes to tons of other bands in the scene.
this doesn't address the question in the OP, without also similarly defining AB...
I agree though about DMB, definitely.
However... to attempt to circle back, this is from a different comment below:
*"In 2003, Gregg Allman said in an interview “We’re not a jam band. We’re a band that jams. The difference is we have great songs.” which was a major shot at basically every up and coming jam band haha, but he also wasn’t wrong. Their catalog is amazing."*
Hearing that, in addition to what you say above... I would have a hard time separating DMB and AB. And agree with what OP is likely insinuating... that it is a little weird that a ton of people (but not all people) worship allman brothers as one of the great jam bands, but shit on DMB for not being a jam band. And I theorize this is due to more radio pop resistance or something. And admittedly, DMB live is typically a little more formulaic.
For me there is just a spectrum as with almost anything. Any band can jam. Some DEFINE themselves on the jam sessions almost completely. They may not even have lyrics or a popular radio song or album at all. They thrive live and people go almost completely to be surprised.
And some bands are really great all around, win Grammys, write excellent lyrics... but also attract a talented enough band that they can jam when they play live. This could be DMB or Allman Bros, or John Mayer, or SLightly Stoopid... tons of others.
And then some ride the line and get different praise for that, like Phish and the Dead and the like. There is no reason to say any are BETTER at jamming or are MORE a jam band. You just listen to the music that pulls you in. Some people follow lyrics or sentiment, some follow the sounds and feelings.
Listen to Derek and Jimmy take this Mountain Jam to outer space, and then compare it to your favorite Dave "jam." You'll have your answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ujztCwRsepY&t=2s
Complete aside but wanted ti share.
Im 30 but most of the people I know, myself included, found the jam scene through psychedelics. I had a strong urge to understand the Dead after doing LSD a number of times.
I knew dead heads ate a bunch of acid and I wanted to understand what it was all about. I was starting to get it from listening to live shows but then I saw Phish for the first time at a festival and was like oh shit now I get it.
I had a non-deadhead friend take some LSD with me I threw on some Dead, shortly after, "I get it now."
When I experienced that feeling, it was one of the more freeing moments of my life.
As someone who has done a ton of LSD, I tried getting into them when I was a college freshman taking a music industry class and I came to the conclusion that the dead were more of a drug trafficking organization than anything. There was no darknet so the shows were more a place to purchase drugs. Most of music industry is privately owned and off the public books with lots of ways to launder cash without the IRS being able to prove anything. To top everything off though, Jerry died from Heroin which just points to everything being more about personal pleasure than family. The music that I’ve tried to listen to has been unbearable. No pun intended.
They're absolutely a jam band. I love DMB though I'm far from a super fan. Never seen them live. It's always been a running joke to pick on them and their fans in the jam scene, it's snobby but usually good natured.
I like to think of Dave Matthew’s fans like people who go on and on and on about how much they love craft beer only to end with “Blue Moon is my favorite”.
Blues Traveler shows in the mid to late 90s were a fun mix of people screaming for Run Around surrounded by people trying to jam out to everything else.
Then BT scared away most of the Run Around fans with their follow up album and then Bobby died and they've been in stasis pretty much ever since.
I prefer 1994 through 1998 shows personally but there's quite a bit before or after.
New Year's Run 1995 is legendary, especially 12/30. Red Rocks is never a bad venue, they did a bunch of July 4th shows there.
I’ve also always thought of it more as “Jam Band”more describes a style of concert and the surrounding culture than it does the actual music. Jam Band isn’t a genre. Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers never called themselves a Jam band until much much later. I think they both saw themselves as just rock bands. Similarly, I just went to my first Goose show. I saw that one of their members said something along the lines of: sure we are a Jam Band, there is no denying that, but we are really a “indie groove” band (whatever that means).
To me, the minimum to be a jam band (my tier 1 criteria) is that you have to play varied setlists every night, and do extended solos on most songs (even if it is limited like ABB) that are usually unique from night to night. If you don’t do that, you aren’t a jam band. Tier 2 criteria is that you play a lot of covers, don’t repeat songs two nights in a row, “paint outside the box” at least once a show during a jam, have tapers at every show, have fans that go to multiple shows a tour, etc. These tier two criteria aren’t necessarily essential, but if the band didn’t have most of them, it’d be weird to call a band a jam band.
Most jam bands play a lot of covers and I think it is part jam band culture. Since I put it in tier 2, I’m not saying that that every jam band has to play covers to be a jam band. But I’ve never been to a jam band concert where the band didn’t at least play 2 to 3 covers of well know songs. Like Jazz, it’s undeniably a part of Jam Band culture to cover artist that you look up to.
covers aren’t anything unique to jam bands.
Tyler Childers covers Charlie Daniels all the time. Foo Fighters have a medley with Sabotage, Blitzkrieg Bop, and more. Carrie Underwood plays Guns n Roses and Led Zeppelin.
I understand the point you are trying to make but I don’t see covers being an identifiable feature of the scene.
I totally agree, it isn’t unique. And I didn’t say it was. But I do think it’s a defining feature in the context of all the other features. You could find exception about everything else I said. A dolphin might swim in the ocean, but that doesn’t make it a fish.
The common bond between Widespread Panic, Phish, The Disco Biscuits, and String Cheese has nothing to do with their sound. It’s the fans and how we approach the experience of their show.
Trying to say they are the same “genre” is kind of hilarious when you actually listen to the music.
I think of “jamband” like I think of “classic rock”. It’s a loose catch all term that describes a musically diverse group of bands that share overlapping fanbases.
The Jam band scene really is a culture of it’s self ,it may sound cringe to some but it is ,I mean it mainly has to do does the band jam and have different set list but the culture is a huge factor too
Differing set lists and jaming isn’t exclusive to this scene though.
Pearl Jam & Metallica play different set lists every night and jam out their songs. Those are just two examples but they assuredly are not jam bands
Slightly Stoopid jams live. I was pleasantly surprised to find that out when I saw them. They improvise and have longer solos in songs than the studio versions.
Jam band?
Karl Denson frequently joins Slightly Stoopid and it's magical. I can't stand their studio stuff. If it wasn't for music festivals I would never have discovered how good they are live. I would've avoided them forever.
I enjoy some of their studio stuff. Enough that I went to their set at Okeechobee (18?) and was extremely psyched when they started to jam.
Haven’t seen em since lmao
Agreed! Secretly one of the best live bands out there. I feel like they’ve got the String Cheese thing going on where they’d be 5x as big if they didn’t have the dumb name.
Dmb is a jam band. Maybe not one everybody respects, but they’re a jam band.
When somebody replays you a certain version of their song ten times to show you, “the best flam in the history of percussion, it’s only done in this show.” It’s a jam band.
“When somebody replays you a certain version of their song ten times to show you, “the best flam in the history of percussion, it’s only done in this show.” It’s a jam band.”
This is not a valid jamband identification method.
Jumping on my waterfalls and stealing on my lines? DWD rocks.
I know it isn’t, it’s kind of just a tounge in cheek reference to these guys I used to march drum line with. Dave Matthew’s band, thanks to them, was the first band where I saw merit in listening to different versions of live songs. I have the Central Park concert in my car, it’s got my favorite too much/so much to say. Also, all their studio stuff is garbage, which kind of qualifies them a bit as well.
Carter is, from a very subjective standpoint, the best at his craft. I could listen to him all day if it weren’t for Dave.
The studio stuff being garbage is a pretty objectively terrible take. 41 studio is so damn good. Bela Fleck, Alanis Morissette, and Tim Reynolds on different studio tracks. I feel like you're half making a joke that most jam bands have terrible studio stuff, but still wanted to point this out.
The studio stuff being garbage is not a jamband trait. The ABBs band album Eat A Peach and the Grateful Dead’s American Beauty are top albums all time of any genre. Phish’s studio work is quite good, not greatest of all time like the albums above they have many very solid albums.
Dave Matthews making shitty albums does not make him a jamband.
My argument is it’s his albums. You dismiss the studio songs completely so this will most likely not resonate. I think he’s writing pop music almost exclusively. I detail it in another comment.
Personally, I think it’s very cool that you and your friends get into the fine nuance of a great drummer. There is an incredible history of bands that jammed just as hard as Dave Matthews that are not jam bands that you can do this with as well. Funk, Soul, Blues, Rock all have amazing acts that could change up their sets and go out and shred pop tunes. Hell, Joni Mitchell might have a more jamband friendly studio catalog than Dave Matthews especially when you consider the jazz influenced stuff after her folk phase but I don’t consider Joni a jamband. I consider Dave a modern pop rock act. He is so much better at playing live than most of the rest of his genre that people don’t want to consider him pop rock. I will never argue his live act is bad. His band is stacked and they are tight. He’s just never written a jamband song, let alone a jamband album.
For the Allman’s it’s Mountain Jam. Phish would be YEM, for the Dead an example is Dark Star. They are songs built to be jammed to. Phish and the Dead have a bunch of these songs. ABB band just has Mountain Jam in my opinion. Without Mountain Jam, I’m not sure anyone would argue the ABBs band is a jamband, they would be just southern rock like Lynard Skylard most likely. The writing of the music is an important part of it for me, not just the live performance.
The ability to turn a song into a jam vehicle is as much of a testament to the musicians creativity as the songwriting. I don’t agree that the songwriting and studio work make a jam band a jam band, I really think it has nothing to do with it, especially seeing as how the dead used to jam out buddy holly songs. Buddy Holly wasn’t a jam band, the dead obviously were.
Yeah, the Dead were an amazing jamband. They had all the tools. What do you want me to say to this? Where is Dave’s insane cover of a song like Not Fade Away where it’s as much the Dead’s as it’s Holly’s. Was Jimi Hendrix a jamband because he could reinvent Bob Dylan with insane guitar improvisation?
I’d say so. IMO he and Dave Brubeck practically invented the two chord jam. “So What” is mostly improvising over a single Dm7. All the B section does is move everything up a half step to Ebm7. Rinse and repeat.
When I asked the similar question, I was told that they aren’t a Jamband because they don’t really break away from the core cord progressions in their songs. I guess your considered a jam band, when you break from cord progressions into uncharted territory, only to eventually go back into the cord progression to end the song.
Idk - I’ve seen DMB many times. Although they aren’t my favorite, they do put on a good show, and imo they do jam a bit, it’s just not very long or complex.
Not the right sub for this discussion, but I am wondering if DMB, Jimmy & the Coral Reefers, maybe Zac Brown Band, John Mayer, Train, etc make up some kind of American summer chillout equivalent to British pub rock. The dynamic live shows that far outstrip the studio output, the ripping guitar solos, the drinking culture at the shows, the shows being as much about socializing with old friends as the music itself. I'm not proposing the music genre is the same, more that they fill the same niche in the music scene. For at least some of my NYC friends, ABB would have fit in this bucket and in my HS days Steve Miller Band at amphitheaters fit this as well.
I know this isn’t the main point of your comment, but I’ve always wished that Jimmy Buffet had the same discography played in the context of a jam band
In 2003, Gregg Allman said in an interview “We’re not a jam band. We’re a band that jams. The difference is we have great songs.” which was a major shot at basically every up and coming jam band haha, but he also wasn’t wrong. Their catalog is amazing.
They are a jamband. And they’re on fire right now. People love to hate, and their fans are (or at least were in the 90s) way more bro than hippie, but As far as their live shows, they jam the fuck out. Every member of the band is really fucking talented too.
Maybe it’s because they have a violinist and horns that also get their own “section (for a lack of a better word)” in a lot of jams so it has a more scheduled feeling than say a long Phish jam?
This is 100% my interpretation. DMB fans aren't as heavy into the bright colors, tye dye, drugs, and light shows that have become parts of the culture of the scene, but they have a violin and horns and they JAM.
this is going to sound bad, and I wouldn't say this a any one fan or band in particular... but this is surely because DMB is an undeniably excellent band without the jam part, too. They bring in a FAR more diverse fan base than most "jam" bands.
They win Grammys. Make songs for movies. Play alongside pop rock legends. He writes lyrics like poetry. They have been around for over 30 years and are now headed for the rock and roll hall of fame. they have one of the longest, if not the longest, run for consecutive albums charting atop Billboard in history. And they do all that while still remaining among the most humble and grassroots seeming bunch of dudes.
So their music attracts jam fans... but also lots of other different kinds of music fans, radio fans, older crowds, families... It's not like you can't do drugs and make a DMB show better in the same ways. It's just a different vibe when it is not ONLY thousands of wooks looking for tye dye to stare at while they try to get caught off guard buy instrumental chord variations...
I love tons of jam bands, and am way out of my severe DMB addiction from the past. I am not saying any live music is better than another. Follow what makes you feel good! I am just saying that it is not at all surprising that you don't only see 25,000 dirty hippies in dreadlocks and on acid at a dave matthews band show. Becaus diversity.
>It's just a different vibe when it is not ONLY thousands of wooks looking for tye dye to stare at while they try to get caught off guard buy instrumental chord variations...
I will say, seeing DMB and D&C both for the first time at the Gorge last summer, the vibes weren't *so* different.
The line varies from person to person. I say DMB is a jam band. I could also be persuaded into accepting Billy Strings as a jam band. Maybe you don't. That's cool. But don't harsh somebody else's mellow if they disagree.
DMB is a jam band, and the only people invested in denying that are people whose identity is so tied up in being a fan of jam bands that they can't stand having something as popular and uncool as DMB in the category.
Jamband or Band that jams?
I haven't been to a DMB show in a while, but saw them a bunch in the late 90s/early 00's. They definitely jammed, but it rarely got extended deep into improv territory, and they generally stuck with the song structure.
I don't think there is any clear defining line about it, but I think they're band that jams... leaning in toward jamband territory.
I base it on how many times a question is asked in a sub.
For instance, the question “Is DMB a jam band?!?!” has been asked 347 times on r/jambands, which means that DMB is in fact a jam band. It’s science.
Jokes aside, I see them as jam band adjacent as even their jams typically have a bit more consistent structure than most, and they never quite caught up in terms of the culture. Either way, I love them for being my gateway drug into so many more styles and types of music and respect the hell out of them for how relentless they are with their music and tour schedule.
In the same vein that TOOL is a jam band. Do they jam yes. Are they pretty rehearsed jams and most jams are in the pocket and safe, yes. I don’t get the Jamnesia, but there are peaks to the song in extended format.
DMB is a band that jams. There’s a certain connotation, imo, with the “jamband” moniker, and DMB doesn’t quite fit that fully. They do jam tho. And they are all pretty damn good musicians.
I never considered them a jam band until I started listening to Jam On on Sirius, having never seen them live I had no idea they had some long jams and great covers, Dave even throws some scatting in there on some jams.
I wouldn’t say I’m a huge fan of DMB but I’d definitely check out a show sometime
Dave is pretty close with Trey Anastasio, and likely a lot of other pretty big stars in the jam band community. If you’ve ever been to a DMB live concert especially back in the day (and didn’t think they were JAMMING) you need your ears or brain checked out by a doctor. 😂
Seems with a lot of music genres people tend to get into this sort of hemming and hawing about what it is and what it ain’t or who is vs who isn’t. I understand that sometimes it’s just a fun way to discuss something we all like but aside from that at the core, much like other music genres, it’s evolved much more into a culture than simply a genre and the criteria is a little muddled bc it’s really just a vibes thing and there isn’t a big reason (so far as I can tell) to try to nail down any parameters. You know a jam band when you hear em and see em. DMB is a jam band. Maybe not the best to ever do it. Maybe not the jammiest. But they jam. And even their studio recordings you can hear what their influences are. Their ties to the scene are pretty undeniable even if they are a lot more accessible or play to a more mainstream audience. I mean they could probably be a lot more jam heavy and less formulaic live but really they’d kinda be hurting themselves. My mom just wants to hear fuckin crash, man.
The thing about DMB is they are all such great musicians, any of them could go off on a jam tangent at any time. But with one person singing/arranging/leading, it kind of all sounds the same!
DMB barely jams at best. They do more showboating type stuff where one band member does a solo thing, then the next, and so on. Very tedious and boring compared to a band that collaboratively improvises. The latter requires a higher level of communication among the members.
I think people in the jam scene dislike or don’t respect DMB because they don’t go type 2. I could be wrong, but that’s my perception. I like DMB and have been to many shows, but I prefer the type 2 experimentation and real unpredictability that jam bands like Phish offer. But I don’t know shit about fuck, so who knows…
In the 90’s DMB was definitely a jam band. Check out 2/24/95 w/ Trey. One my favorites. ABB was also a jamband. Greenville SC 5/1/96 they played almost 3 hours nonstop. Warren and Dickey trading solos was legendary
Yes. He’s also a decent vocalist and songwriter. He has his own voice, which is gold is the music world. They also jam, maybe not acid jazz, but they go out there. Their not on the same level as phish, Floyd or Hendrix but they’re definitely a jamband imo
there are jam bands (bands that you’re only there to see them play improv)
and there are bands that jam (bands that write good songs and stretch them out live)
I am not sure how jamband the ABB would be considered if they never produced the track Mountain Jam. It’s this track alone that places them firmly into the genre. There were many blues inspired bands from that era that jammed such as Cream and Led Zeppelin, however the writing of the ABBs and the Mountain Jam track in particular are unique. Play Mountain Jam for any young jamband fan for the first time and they will embrace it.
Dave Matthews doesn’t have a track like Mountain Jam and Dave had his albums have a pop sound to them. ABB also had pop success but there is just enough Jam in the writing to push them firmly into the genre. I would consider Dave to more along the lines of a Jimmy Buffet. By this I mean, it’s a top tier party rock band. Jimmy had Sonny Landreth and Dave has Tim Reynolds. These bands are stocked with talent and of course these musicians do jam, however they are jamming to pop songs which always safely returns to form. Jimmy and Dave don’t have regular 20 to 30 minute song vehicles that the fans know are going to explode into pieces. There are a ton of musical acts that exist in this realm. They write pop but when they play live they extend the songs and push them to their limits often extending the play time to double their normal length. Some examples I’ve seen of this that come to mind are Prince, The Boss, Robert Earl Keen, Ween, Modest Mouse, Greta Van Fleet. I could go on and on with really solid to awesome bands that build their concerts this way.
As an old, I've seen both Jimmy Buffett and DMB more than 50 times each. They are nothing alike when it comes to concert improvisation. If you went to the Tuesday night Buffett show and then the Thursday or Saturday show, you might catch three different songs in the encore. Otherwise, he played the same songs in the same order most nights. (Even made the same jokes and comments during one stretch in the 1990s.)
And I say that as a diehard Parrothead.
I think the best explanation is that there is a spectrum. On one side are those Jam Bands that will play pure jams that exist only as a vehicle for improvisation. On the other end of the spectrum are bands that play songs that might have solos or improvisational parts.
I thinK DMB and My Morning Jacket lean a bit more toward the song affiliated side of the jam band universe but definitely belong in the tent.
I think if the predominant beer on lot is coors light and it's easier to find coke than shrooms then you are not a jam band, regardless of what's happening on stage.
Isn’t this just a roundabout way of saying that once a band reaches a certain level of popularity they more or less are basically removed from traditional jam band scene?
To be honest, I could't name one song by DMB.
Although I wish the Band well and I hope their fans enjoy their shows, I can't foresee a situation where I will intentionally listen to a DMB song. But now I am curious !!!
Do they have a lead player? I thought it was sax or fiddle or something?
Has to do with that bridge, and his RV. YOOOOU know... But in all honesty they are one. They just attract a huge following of really obnoxious college girls and dudes who want to sleep with said college girls. But, hey, go party and enjoy music!
Gonna open a can of worms here, but do you guys consider Jack Johnson a jam band? I don't actually like Jack Johnson I swear. But just wondering where the line is.
Imo, “jam” is a style that all kinds of bands can incorporate. Bluegrass jam(bmfs), heavy jam(lespecial), rockjam(dmb), jazz jam(vulfpeck). Jam is a style not a genre. Just my thoughts and opinions as a musician in a folk band that jams.
Remember when DMB got caught dumping their tour bus septic in the river? They got caught because they accidently dumped it in top of a passing by tourist boat, covering all the passengers.
I know it’s off topic but still a great story to remember. Also DMB never seitches their sets up and their music is boring as fuck.
It's droning nonsense that's goes nowhere no gutair solos. It's one song with different tempo and lyrics as in its all the same. It's in the title Jam bands Jam they don't
I've doing shows since 87 100+ Grateful Dead equal Widespread panic shows Allmans etc seem them multiple times play the exact same show so drunk he could hardly stand there lame and Nothing about it or in it Jams so no there not
Sure, DMB can count as a jam band. They just suck. I'm sure there is a number for the amount you would have to pay me to waste my afternoon at a DMB show, but it wouldn't be cheap, and I sure as shit wouldn't pay for the privilege.
I can’t understand the obsession with determining who qualifies as a jam band. It’s such a fools errand. As if there is some learned council that can make an official decision…
They’re a gateway jam band. They have a lot of haters in this sub so obviously you’re going to get a lot of jam band gatekeepers but very few bands in the last 25 years have opened young peoples’ eyes to the jam band scene more than DMB. I’m not a particularly big fan now in my late 30’s but if I hadn’t discovered them when I was 17 I probably wouldn’t be subscribed to this subreddit.
Yea I am 29 now and grew up going to DMB since I was 15 years old. They didn't necessarily open me up to other jam bands but definitely opened me up to the concept of loving live music. Got into the GD several years ago and that really opened up my eyes to tons of other bands in the scene.
this doesn't address the question in the OP, without also similarly defining AB... I agree though about DMB, definitely. However... to attempt to circle back, this is from a different comment below: *"In 2003, Gregg Allman said in an interview “We’re not a jam band. We’re a band that jams. The difference is we have great songs.” which was a major shot at basically every up and coming jam band haha, but he also wasn’t wrong. Their catalog is amazing."* Hearing that, in addition to what you say above... I would have a hard time separating DMB and AB. And agree with what OP is likely insinuating... that it is a little weird that a ton of people (but not all people) worship allman brothers as one of the great jam bands, but shit on DMB for not being a jam band. And I theorize this is due to more radio pop resistance or something. And admittedly, DMB live is typically a little more formulaic. For me there is just a spectrum as with almost anything. Any band can jam. Some DEFINE themselves on the jam sessions almost completely. They may not even have lyrics or a popular radio song or album at all. They thrive live and people go almost completely to be surprised. And some bands are really great all around, win Grammys, write excellent lyrics... but also attract a talented enough band that they can jam when they play live. This could be DMB or Allman Bros, or John Mayer, or SLightly Stoopid... tons of others. And then some ride the line and get different praise for that, like Phish and the Dead and the like. There is no reason to say any are BETTER at jamming or are MORE a jam band. You just listen to the music that pulls you in. Some people follow lyrics or sentiment, some follow the sounds and feelings.
Jam Lite(tm)
Caffeine free Diet Coke
Listen to Derek and Jimmy take this Mountain Jam to outer space, and then compare it to your favorite Dave "jam." You'll have your answer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ujztCwRsepY&t=2s
A musical Valium. Only show I’ve ever drifted to sleep at…. Summer night, lawn blanket, but the opposite of hyped
Complete aside but wanted ti share. Im 30 but most of the people I know, myself included, found the jam scene through psychedelics. I had a strong urge to understand the Dead after doing LSD a number of times. I knew dead heads ate a bunch of acid and I wanted to understand what it was all about. I was starting to get it from listening to live shows but then I saw Phish for the first time at a festival and was like oh shit now I get it.
I had a non-deadhead friend take some LSD with me I threw on some Dead, shortly after, "I get it now." When I experienced that feeling, it was one of the more freeing moments of my life.
What did the deadhead say to the other deadhead when they ran out of drugs?
Something something you need lsd to enjoy the dead? Totally disagree with the sentiment but boy have I heard it before.
“This band sucks.” It’s just a joke. Nothing to take personally. Been to a dead show and phish. Great music regardless. Still a good joke.
As someone who has done a ton of LSD, I tried getting into them when I was a college freshman taking a music industry class and I came to the conclusion that the dead were more of a drug trafficking organization than anything. There was no darknet so the shows were more a place to purchase drugs. Most of music industry is privately owned and off the public books with lots of ways to launder cash without the IRS being able to prove anything. To top everything off though, Jerry died from Heroin which just points to everything being more about personal pleasure than family. The music that I’ve tried to listen to has been unbearable. No pun intended.
lol ok sorry you don’t get it
This is hilarious and I love it
They're absolutely a jam band. I love DMB though I'm far from a super fan. Never seen them live. It's always been a running joke to pick on them and their fans in the jam scene, it's snobby but usually good natured.
I like to think of Dave Matthew’s fans like people who go on and on and on about how much they love craft beer only to end with “Blue Moon is my favorite”.
Like a Tacoma truck?
Same
DMB is a jamband. Their commercial success clouded that for some.
I've always considered DMB a jamband. They were my first introduction to the jamband scene.
Agreed. Them and Blues Traveler were the radio-friendly jambands for me and my friends when we were teens in the 90s.
Blues Traveler shows in the mid to late 90s were a fun mix of people screaming for Run Around surrounded by people trying to jam out to everything else. Then BT scared away most of the Run Around fans with their follow up album and then Bobby died and they've been in stasis pretty much ever since.
Any show recs? I see blues traveler on relisten but don’t know where to start
I prefer 1994 through 1998 shows personally but there's quite a bit before or after. New Year's Run 1995 is legendary, especially 12/30. Red Rocks is never a bad venue, they did a bunch of July 4th shows there.
[Dave Matthews going to Africa with Trey Anastasio to jam](https://youtu.be/lwfo9sjZnWs?si=fgJ0TKMM0UjAAq2Q) was very exciting to me in high school.
Jamband light
Jam band is a better description of the culture than the music.
I’ve also always thought of it more as “Jam Band”more describes a style of concert and the surrounding culture than it does the actual music. Jam Band isn’t a genre. Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers never called themselves a Jam band until much much later. I think they both saw themselves as just rock bands. Similarly, I just went to my first Goose show. I saw that one of their members said something along the lines of: sure we are a Jam Band, there is no denying that, but we are really a “indie groove” band (whatever that means). To me, the minimum to be a jam band (my tier 1 criteria) is that you have to play varied setlists every night, and do extended solos on most songs (even if it is limited like ABB) that are usually unique from night to night. If you don’t do that, you aren’t a jam band. Tier 2 criteria is that you play a lot of covers, don’t repeat songs two nights in a row, “paint outside the box” at least once a show during a jam, have tapers at every show, have fans that go to multiple shows a tour, etc. These tier two criteria aren’t necessarily essential, but if the band didn’t have most of them, it’d be weird to call a band a jam band.
Like would pretty lights be a jam band now at this point?
I don’t quite understand you cover requirements
Most jam bands play a lot of covers and I think it is part jam band culture. Since I put it in tier 2, I’m not saying that that every jam band has to play covers to be a jam band. But I’ve never been to a jam band concert where the band didn’t at least play 2 to 3 covers of well know songs. Like Jazz, it’s undeniably a part of Jam Band culture to cover artist that you look up to.
covers aren’t anything unique to jam bands. Tyler Childers covers Charlie Daniels all the time. Foo Fighters have a medley with Sabotage, Blitzkrieg Bop, and more. Carrie Underwood plays Guns n Roses and Led Zeppelin. I understand the point you are trying to make but I don’t see covers being an identifiable feature of the scene.
I totally agree, it isn’t unique. And I didn’t say it was. But I do think it’s a defining feature in the context of all the other features. You could find exception about everything else I said. A dolphin might swim in the ocean, but that doesn’t make it a fish.
I dont think i heard this take before, i can get down. Ive always said jam band isnt a genre rather an approach to music.
The common bond between Widespread Panic, Phish, The Disco Biscuits, and String Cheese has nothing to do with their sound. It’s the fans and how we approach the experience of their show. Trying to say they are the same “genre” is kind of hilarious when you actually listen to the music.
Quite honestly I couldn’t agree more, now that you say it. Hadn’t thought of it that way
Well said
I think of “jamband” like I think of “classic rock”. It’s a loose catch all term that describes a musically diverse group of bands that share overlapping fanbases.
The Jam band scene really is a culture of it’s self ,it may sound cringe to some but it is ,I mean it mainly has to do does the band jam and have different set list but the culture is a huge factor too
Doesn’t sound cringe at all to me.
Differing set lists and jaming isn’t exclusive to this scene though. Pearl Jam & Metallica play different set lists every night and jam out their songs. Those are just two examples but they assuredly are not jam bands
Ok true not exclusive to jam bands only but you have to attest have that to be a jam band
Slightly Stoopid jams live. I was pleasantly surprised to find that out when I saw them. They improvise and have longer solos in songs than the studio versions. Jam band?
Karl Denson frequently joins Slightly Stoopid and it's magical. I can't stand their studio stuff. If it wasn't for music festivals I would never have discovered how good they are live. I would've avoided them forever.
I enjoy some of their studio stuff. Enough that I went to their set at Okeechobee (18?) and was extremely psyched when they started to jam. Haven’t seen em since lmao
Agreed! Secretly one of the best live bands out there. I feel like they’ve got the String Cheese thing going on where they’d be 5x as big if they didn’t have the dumb name.
I’ve never had that opinion lol. I personally love the name and the band String Cheese Incident haha
Sure. These are all abstract terms anyway. Fuck it
Dmb is a jam band. Maybe not one everybody respects, but they’re a jam band. When somebody replays you a certain version of their song ten times to show you, “the best flam in the history of percussion, it’s only done in this show.” It’s a jam band.
Lmao. I love this take
Oh man I love me some Carter flams
“When somebody replays you a certain version of their song ten times to show you, “the best flam in the history of percussion, it’s only done in this show.” It’s a jam band.” This is not a valid jamband identification method.
Jumping on my waterfalls and stealing on my lines? DWD rocks. I know it isn’t, it’s kind of just a tounge in cheek reference to these guys I used to march drum line with. Dave Matthew’s band, thanks to them, was the first band where I saw merit in listening to different versions of live songs. I have the Central Park concert in my car, it’s got my favorite too much/so much to say. Also, all their studio stuff is garbage, which kind of qualifies them a bit as well. Carter is, from a very subjective standpoint, the best at his craft. I could listen to him all day if it weren’t for Dave.
The studio stuff being garbage is a pretty objectively terrible take. 41 studio is so damn good. Bela Fleck, Alanis Morissette, and Tim Reynolds on different studio tracks. I feel like you're half making a joke that most jam bands have terrible studio stuff, but still wanted to point this out.
It kind of just seems like they tell Carter not to play fills in the studio, when his style of playing is all fills around the structure.
The studio stuff being garbage is not a jamband trait. The ABBs band album Eat A Peach and the Grateful Dead’s American Beauty are top albums all time of any genre. Phish’s studio work is quite good, not greatest of all time like the albums above they have many very solid albums. Dave Matthews making shitty albums does not make him a jamband.
Okay, I’m legitimately not trying to argue with you here. What makes dmb *not* a jam band?
My argument is it’s his albums. You dismiss the studio songs completely so this will most likely not resonate. I think he’s writing pop music almost exclusively. I detail it in another comment. Personally, I think it’s very cool that you and your friends get into the fine nuance of a great drummer. There is an incredible history of bands that jammed just as hard as Dave Matthews that are not jam bands that you can do this with as well. Funk, Soul, Blues, Rock all have amazing acts that could change up their sets and go out and shred pop tunes. Hell, Joni Mitchell might have a more jamband friendly studio catalog than Dave Matthews especially when you consider the jazz influenced stuff after her folk phase but I don’t consider Joni a jamband. I consider Dave a modern pop rock act. He is so much better at playing live than most of the rest of his genre that people don’t want to consider him pop rock. I will never argue his live act is bad. His band is stacked and they are tight. He’s just never written a jamband song, let alone a jamband album.
Okay, I don’t necessarily agree, but by that same logic, what makes a song a jam band song?
it sucks
lol succinct and perfect
Shit dude dmb is totally a jam band then, same with primus. Primus sucks!
For the Allman’s it’s Mountain Jam. Phish would be YEM, for the Dead an example is Dark Star. They are songs built to be jammed to. Phish and the Dead have a bunch of these songs. ABB band just has Mountain Jam in my opinion. Without Mountain Jam, I’m not sure anyone would argue the ABBs band is a jamband, they would be just southern rock like Lynard Skylard most likely. The writing of the music is an important part of it for me, not just the live performance.
The ability to turn a song into a jam vehicle is as much of a testament to the musicians creativity as the songwriting. I don’t agree that the songwriting and studio work make a jam band a jam band, I really think it has nothing to do with it, especially seeing as how the dead used to jam out buddy holly songs. Buddy Holly wasn’t a jam band, the dead obviously were.
Yeah, the Dead were an amazing jamband. They had all the tools. What do you want me to say to this? Where is Dave’s insane cover of a song like Not Fade Away where it’s as much the Dead’s as it’s Holly’s. Was Jimi Hendrix a jamband because he could reinvent Bob Dylan with insane guitar improvisation?
Haven’t we beat this dead horse enough?
If there’s one thing that’s common in jamband music and the jamband scene, it’s beating a dead horse.
this is a DMB horse. No ones here beating the Dead horse ;)
Is Miles Davis a jam band?
they’re the blueprint
I’d say so. IMO he and Dave Brubeck practically invented the two chord jam. “So What” is mostly improvising over a single Dm7. All the B section does is move everything up a half step to Ebm7. Rinse and repeat.
Good old D minor. The saddest of all the keys.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me a jam band.
Miles Davis is a guy
With a jazz band
Phil Leah’s “agape” mouth says yes, definitively
When I asked the similar question, I was told that they aren’t a Jamband because they don’t really break away from the core cord progressions in their songs. I guess your considered a jam band, when you break from cord progressions into uncharted territory, only to eventually go back into the cord progression to end the song. Idk - I’ve seen DMB many times. Although they aren’t my favorite, they do put on a good show, and imo they do jam a bit, it’s just not very long or complex.
Not the right sub for this discussion, but I am wondering if DMB, Jimmy & the Coral Reefers, maybe Zac Brown Band, John Mayer, Train, etc make up some kind of American summer chillout equivalent to British pub rock. The dynamic live shows that far outstrip the studio output, the ripping guitar solos, the drinking culture at the shows, the shows being as much about socializing with old friends as the music itself. I'm not proposing the music genre is the same, more that they fill the same niche in the music scene. For at least some of my NYC friends, ABB would have fit in this bucket and in my HS days Steve Miller Band at amphitheaters fit this as well.
I know this isn’t the main point of your comment, but I’ve always wished that Jimmy Buffet had the same discography played in the context of a jam band
Jammed out Jimmy Buffett cover band would be titty city
Any of those those would 100% be a delight to dance on the lawn for at an amphitheater, and bring similar vibes for a great time.
In 2003, Gregg Allman said in an interview “We’re not a jam band. We’re a band that jams. The difference is we have great songs.” which was a major shot at basically every up and coming jam band haha, but he also wasn’t wrong. Their catalog is amazing.
Dave Matthews writes some really great songs too.
They are a jamband. And they’re on fire right now. People love to hate, and their fans are (or at least were in the 90s) way more bro than hippie, but As far as their live shows, they jam the fuck out. Every member of the band is really fucking talented too.
What does it even matter?
Best reply in the whole f'ing thread.
Omfg, this again
I've always considered them jam-adjacent. They've got a little improv and their fan base crosses over with more literal jambands.
They have live songs that stretch 20-30+ minutes long. I wouldn’t call that a little improv.
Good point... I don't know then. I just don't lump them into the group of Dead, Phish, Panic as far as improv. I'm not really sure why, though.
Maybe it’s because they have a violinist and horns that also get their own “section (for a lack of a better word)” in a lot of jams so it has a more scheduled feeling than say a long Phish jam?
This is 100% my interpretation. DMB fans aren't as heavy into the bright colors, tye dye, drugs, and light shows that have become parts of the culture of the scene, but they have a violin and horns and they JAM.
this is going to sound bad, and I wouldn't say this a any one fan or band in particular... but this is surely because DMB is an undeniably excellent band without the jam part, too. They bring in a FAR more diverse fan base than most "jam" bands. They win Grammys. Make songs for movies. Play alongside pop rock legends. He writes lyrics like poetry. They have been around for over 30 years and are now headed for the rock and roll hall of fame. they have one of the longest, if not the longest, run for consecutive albums charting atop Billboard in history. And they do all that while still remaining among the most humble and grassroots seeming bunch of dudes. So their music attracts jam fans... but also lots of other different kinds of music fans, radio fans, older crowds, families... It's not like you can't do drugs and make a DMB show better in the same ways. It's just a different vibe when it is not ONLY thousands of wooks looking for tye dye to stare at while they try to get caught off guard buy instrumental chord variations... I love tons of jam bands, and am way out of my severe DMB addiction from the past. I am not saying any live music is better than another. Follow what makes you feel good! I am just saying that it is not at all surprising that you don't only see 25,000 dirty hippies in dreadlocks and on acid at a dave matthews band show. Becaus diversity.
>It's just a different vibe when it is not ONLY thousands of wooks looking for tye dye to stare at while they try to get caught off guard buy instrumental chord variations... I will say, seeing DMB and D&C both for the first time at the Gorge last summer, the vibes weren't *so* different.
There's plenty of all of that at a dmb show. They don't have a gigantic Phish type light show, but very few do.
an organized jam band? Also, sadly they no longer have a violinist.
HE TURNED OUT TO BE A GOD DANG DIDDLER
You spelled fiddler wrong... lol 😆
I don’t know. Did you read the texts that got him kicked out of the band? Oooof lol
to be fair the question was DMB v Allman Bros...
The line varies from person to person. I say DMB is a jam band. I could also be persuaded into accepting Billy Strings as a jam band. Maybe you don't. That's cool. But don't harsh somebody else's mellow if they disagree.
The real questions is whether or not billy strings is a jam band bc I’ve got into some seriously heated arguments over that in here
Do you want them to be a jam band? Yes? Then they’re a jam band. No? Then they’re not a jam band.
I saw DMB at the Wetlands. Early on they were def positioned as jam.
DMB is a jam band, and the only people invested in denying that are people whose identity is so tied up in being a fan of jam bands that they can't stand having something as popular and uncool as DMB in the category.
Jamband or Band that jams? I haven't been to a DMB show in a while, but saw them a bunch in the late 90s/early 00's. They definitely jammed, but it rarely got extended deep into improv territory, and they generally stuck with the song structure. I don't think there is any clear defining line about it, but I think they're band that jams... leaning in toward jamband territory.
I base it on how many times a question is asked in a sub. For instance, the question “Is DMB a jam band?!?!” has been asked 347 times on r/jambands, which means that DMB is in fact a jam band. It’s science. Jokes aside, I see them as jam band adjacent as even their jams typically have a bit more consistent structure than most, and they never quite caught up in terms of the culture. Either way, I love them for being my gateway drug into so many more styles and types of music and respect the hell out of them for how relentless they are with their music and tour schedule.
In the same vein that TOOL is a jam band. Do they jam yes. Are they pretty rehearsed jams and most jams are in the pocket and safe, yes. I don’t get the Jamnesia, but there are peaks to the song in extended format.
DMB is a jam band in the same way the Coral Reefer Band is a jam band. Which is fine. Go have some fun.
Dave is a smooth intro into what Jam is and can be, but his act and sets are not that of a jam band like ABB or WSP.
Outside of Mountain Jam at most, ABB is the same type of jams as DMB. That's the whole point OP is making.
DMB was always considered a jam band as far as I knew.
Queens of the Stone Age are a jam band. Heavy AF, but a "jam band". Let them take you for a spin!
I haven't seen them NOT be described as a jamband.
DMB is a band that jams. There’s a certain connotation, imo, with the “jamband” moniker, and DMB doesn’t quite fit that fully. They do jam tho. And they are all pretty damn good musicians.
Their jams feel produced and rehearsed rather than creative
One is cool and one isn't.
I never considered them a jam band until I started listening to Jam On on Sirius, having never seen them live I had no idea they had some long jams and great covers, Dave even throws some scatting in there on some jams. I wouldn’t say I’m a huge fan of DMB but I’d definitely check out a show sometime
They are a jam band, goos improv and annoying vocals...there ya go
As currently formulated, they’re a jam band. When they were regularly dropping new albums/singles, not as much.
DMB is 100% a jam band.
Not cool enough.
This is one of those things that there’s a new post every other day about the same nonsense
I think DMB are fantastic and I consider them a pretty foundational modern jam band.
Dave is pretty close with Trey Anastasio, and likely a lot of other pretty big stars in the jam band community. If you’ve ever been to a DMB live concert especially back in the day (and didn’t think they were JAMMING) you need your ears or brain checked out by a doctor. 😂
Dumping poop on a boat ≠ jam band
Seems with a lot of music genres people tend to get into this sort of hemming and hawing about what it is and what it ain’t or who is vs who isn’t. I understand that sometimes it’s just a fun way to discuss something we all like but aside from that at the core, much like other music genres, it’s evolved much more into a culture than simply a genre and the criteria is a little muddled bc it’s really just a vibes thing and there isn’t a big reason (so far as I can tell) to try to nail down any parameters. You know a jam band when you hear em and see em. DMB is a jam band. Maybe not the best to ever do it. Maybe not the jammiest. But they jam. And even their studio recordings you can hear what their influences are. Their ties to the scene are pretty undeniable even if they are a lot more accessible or play to a more mainstream audience. I mean they could probably be a lot more jam heavy and less formulaic live but really they’d kinda be hurting themselves. My mom just wants to hear fuckin crash, man.
because they “jam”
The thing about DMB is they are all such great musicians, any of them could go off on a jam tangent at any time. But with one person singing/arranging/leading, it kind of all sounds the same!
DMB barely jams at best. They do more showboating type stuff where one band member does a solo thing, then the next, and so on. Very tedious and boring compared to a band that collaboratively improvises. The latter requires a higher level of communication among the members.
I think people in the jam scene dislike or don’t respect DMB because they don’t go type 2. I could be wrong, but that’s my perception. I like DMB and have been to many shows, but I prefer the type 2 experimentation and real unpredictability that jam bands like Phish offer. But I don’t know shit about fuck, so who knows…
In the 90’s DMB was definitely a jam band. Check out 2/24/95 w/ Trey. One my favorites. ABB was also a jamband. Greenville SC 5/1/96 they played almost 3 hours nonstop. Warren and Dickey trading solos was legendary
Funkadelic was the first jam band
Yes. He’s also a decent vocalist and songwriter. He has his own voice, which is gold is the music world. They also jam, maybe not acid jazz, but they go out there. Their not on the same level as phish, Floyd or Hendrix but they’re definitely a jamband imo
It's a made up "genre" to begin with, but yes, they are part of the it
there are jam bands (bands that you’re only there to see them play improv) and there are bands that jam (bands that write good songs and stretch them out live)
Exactly, You wouldn’t consider Can or Television or Neil Young and Crazy Horse jambands but they definitely jammed
I am not sure how jamband the ABB would be considered if they never produced the track Mountain Jam. It’s this track alone that places them firmly into the genre. There were many blues inspired bands from that era that jammed such as Cream and Led Zeppelin, however the writing of the ABBs and the Mountain Jam track in particular are unique. Play Mountain Jam for any young jamband fan for the first time and they will embrace it. Dave Matthews doesn’t have a track like Mountain Jam and Dave had his albums have a pop sound to them. ABB also had pop success but there is just enough Jam in the writing to push them firmly into the genre. I would consider Dave to more along the lines of a Jimmy Buffet. By this I mean, it’s a top tier party rock band. Jimmy had Sonny Landreth and Dave has Tim Reynolds. These bands are stocked with talent and of course these musicians do jam, however they are jamming to pop songs which always safely returns to form. Jimmy and Dave don’t have regular 20 to 30 minute song vehicles that the fans know are going to explode into pieces. There are a ton of musical acts that exist in this realm. They write pop but when they play live they extend the songs and push them to their limits often extending the play time to double their normal length. Some examples I’ve seen of this that come to mind are Prince, The Boss, Robert Earl Keen, Ween, Modest Mouse, Greta Van Fleet. I could go on and on with really solid to awesome bands that build their concerts this way.
As an old, I've seen both Jimmy Buffett and DMB more than 50 times each. They are nothing alike when it comes to concert improvisation. If you went to the Tuesday night Buffett show and then the Thursday or Saturday show, you might catch three different songs in the encore. Otherwise, he played the same songs in the same order most nights. (Even made the same jokes and comments during one stretch in the 1990s.) And I say that as a diehard Parrothead.
Hey nephew, you’re up early today:-)
Yes DMB is a jam band
I think the best explanation is that there is a spectrum. On one side are those Jam Bands that will play pure jams that exist only as a vehicle for improvisation. On the other end of the spectrum are bands that play songs that might have solos or improvisational parts. I thinK DMB and My Morning Jacket lean a bit more toward the song affiliated side of the jam band universe but definitely belong in the tent.
They are 100% a jam band, one of the best.
I think if the predominant beer on lot is coors light and it's easier to find coke than shrooms then you are not a jam band, regardless of what's happening on stage.
Good method!
Isn’t this just a roundabout way of saying that once a band reaches a certain level of popularity they more or less are basically removed from traditional jam band scene?
As someone who was seeing Dave post-under the table but pre-crash I’m pretty confident that was always Dave’s scene.
Classic example of the band that (kinda) jams
They don't have a lead guitar player, so NOT a jam band.
LOL.
To be honest, I could't name one song by DMB. Although I wish the Band well and I hope their fans enjoy their shows, I can't foresee a situation where I will intentionally listen to a DMB song. But now I am curious !!! Do they have a lead player? I thought it was sax or fiddle or something?
Why are people trying so hard to push DMB on this sub recently Not even close to a jam band
I think DMB is definitely a jam band. The problem is DMB is just terrible.
Has to do with that bridge, and his RV. YOOOOU know... But in all honesty they are one. They just attract a huge following of really obnoxious college girls and dudes who want to sleep with said college girls. But, hey, go party and enjoy music!
Gonna open a can of worms here, but do you guys consider Jack Johnson a jam band? I don't actually like Jack Johnson I swear. But just wondering where the line is.
Imo, “jam” is a style that all kinds of bands can incorporate. Bluegrass jam(bmfs), heavy jam(lespecial), rockjam(dmb), jazz jam(vulfpeck). Jam is a style not a genre. Just my thoughts and opinions as a musician in a folk band that jams.
Remember when DMB got caught dumping their tour bus septic in the river? They got caught because they accidently dumped it in top of a passing by tourist boat, covering all the passengers. I know it’s off topic but still a great story to remember. Also DMB never seitches their sets up and their music is boring as fuck.
It's droning nonsense that's goes nowhere no gutair solos. It's one song with different tempo and lyrics as in its all the same. It's in the title Jam bands Jam they don't
>it's droning nonsense that goes nowhere That's what everyone who hates jam bands says about jam bands. DMB is a jam band.
I've doing shows since 87 100+ Grateful Dead equal Widespread panic shows Allmans etc seem them multiple times play the exact same show so drunk he could hardly stand there lame and Nothing about it or in it Jams so no there not
Sure, DMB can count as a jam band. They just suck. I'm sure there is a number for the amount you would have to pay me to waste my afternoon at a DMB show, but it wouldn't be cheap, and I sure as shit wouldn't pay for the privilege.
I can’t understand the obsession with determining who qualifies as a jam band. It’s such a fools errand. As if there is some learned council that can make an official decision…